Axis-Star

[Εἰρήνη]

Is there any particular star that can be called the axis of our world?

in other words,

What star fits the idea of the axis of the world the most?

What star can be related to the idea of the Mother Goddess?

Thank you

 

[Christine]

L'étoile de l'Amour

The star of Love

 

[Keit]

Could you please explain your question a bit more? What do you mean by the star (the actual celestial object?) and why it is important to do this picking of the main one? Sorry if I misunderstand something.

 

[Persej]

Sun? It is the center of our Solar system. :)

 

[Εἰρήνη]

Mother Goddess = the Great Goddess = Isis = Virgin Mary,Pessinuntica the mother of the gods = Cecropian Minerva = Paphian Venus = Diana Dictynna (cretans), Stygian Proserpine = Ceres = Ishtar = Innana

Celsus explains that stars are symbols of spirit, planets are symbols of souls, and the elements are symbols of body. In philosophy and in Mysteries there are 7 archetypal cosmic bodies that represent a constitution of a human being and the natural order of energies (there is some confusion that happened in history with Greek and Roman god names, but the key here are energies that each level of consciousness represent):

1 Moon(Hades)
2 Mercury (Poseidon)
3 Venus (Zeus)
4 Sun (Rhea) - Golden Middle
5 Mars (Chronus)
6 Jupiter (Uranus)
7 Saturn (Phanes)

Moon(Hades), Mercury (Poseidon) and Venus (Zeus) are archetypal terrestrial planets, solid planets, lower chakras.
Mars (Chronus), Jupiter (Uranus), and Saturn (Phanes) are archetypal extraterrestrial planets, gaseous planets, moving toward lower density, higher chakras.

The Great Goddess, the spiritual nature of the Sun (Rhea) is the Golden Middle, the cross, the eye, the center of the labyrinth, the axis of the sphere of duality. The sphere of duality is represented by the tree of life, in other words it is cosmic egg with zodiac as its shell. We need to break through the shell, pierce the shell, in order to set ourselves free from the wheel of fortune/karma. In order to do this we need to find a stable unmovable center/golden medium/middle/axis mundi of the wheel. The still point in the middle has the property of the Unity, because the divine is immovable.

The law of physics says that when 2 opposites meet they cancel each other out. The 2 opposites meet in the unmovable middle sphere #4 Sun (Rhea) the Great Goddess.

Gurdjieff said the 3rd force needed to balance the opposites. Celts also seem to support this idea with their triskele. Laura talks about it in The Secret History of the World on page 106. C’s also said in one of the sessions that Yin and Yang sphere has the grey point where the 2 opposite energies meet. For some reason I could not find this session right now. If someone finds it, please post here. The idea of the Great Goddess, often depicted with mirrors symbolizing the idea that higher realms are reflected in the lower realms with the middle sphere being a reflector, is that Third force, golden middle.

Labrys (supposedly the word from which the word labyrinth was formed), the symbol of the Goddess is a depiction of the same idea: 2 opposites meet in the middle.

The The Goddess often depicted with dogs. The symbol of Isis is Sirius, what we call today a Dog star, from the constellation Canis Major.

There are reasons to believe that Sirius of the past may not be the same Sirius we know today.

Laura meticulously researched this matter in the chapter Egyptian Chronology: I'm My Own Grandpa.

In Chapter 21 of his work, concerning Isis and Osiris, Plutarch says, The soul of Isis is called Dog by the Greeks and the soul of Horus is called Orion. Since Sothis is identified with Isis in other Egyptian texts, and Sirius is called the Dog in Greek, we conclude that Sothis is the star which we-call Sirius. However there are a number of difficulties. At least the second half of Plutarch s statement appears to be in error, because Orion is usually associated with Osiris not Horus. According to some Egyptologists Egyptian astronomical names did not always remain attached to the same celestial object. Osiris was first associated with Venus; later Osiris was associated with Jupiter. The planet Venus, which was first identified with Osiris, was later identified with Isis. Sometimes right eye is a title of Isis-Hathor, sometimes it is a title of the sun.
Plutarch also identifies Osiris with the constellation which the Greeks call Argo. The hieroglyphic triangle which represents Sothis also appears to represent the zodiacal light, and the Egyptians apparently knew both an Isis-Sothis and a Horus-Sothis. The term wp rnpt which refers to the rising of Sothis, also refers to the beginning of the civil year and the birthday of the king. Even the Greek word Sirius is not always attached to the same celestial object. Similar shifts and uncertainties apply to the identification of ancient astronomical names in general, for example, the constellations in Job.
According to the English astronomer Poole, Sirius was not on the horizon coincident with the rising of the sun on the Egyptian New Year s Day in 140 BC, the date specified by Censorinus and those who follow him. Macnaughton set up a chronology based on the supposition that Sothis was Spica, not Sirius, as a way around this difficulty. Canopus and Venus are other candidates that have been suggested, perhaps less plausibly. Kenneth Brecher has revived the doubts about identifying the bright star referred to in records as Sothis/the Dog/Sirius with the star we call Sirius today. Babylonian and Roman sources as late as Ptolemy all call Sirius a red star. Seneca says it is redder than Mars. In his star catalog Ptolemy refers to the bright red star in the face of the Dog. He links Sirius with red stars like Aldebaran and Arcturus.
The star which we presently call Sirius is not a red star. No theory of stellar evolution offers any explanation for how a red star could become white in 2000 years, although much speculation has centered around possible changes in the companion star which is part of Sirius. There is a flaw either in our identification of Sothis as our Sirius, in the ancients observations, in our translation of their texts, or in present theories of stellar evolution, which must be based more on computer analysis than on observation.
One explanation which has been offered is that the red color refers to the star only as observed in heliacal rising near the horizon. Perhaps red simply means bright or beautiful as it does in Akkadian or Russian. At any rate, we can say that there is at least some question about the identification of Sothis as our star Sirius, and a thorough re-study of the pertinent Egyptian and Greek astronomical terms would be valuable.

 

[Persej]

Yes, Sun/higher emotional center is the center of our internal galaxy. At least for those who reach that stage in their development.

 

[Εἰρήνη]

Persej, thank you for your response.
You are right, archetypal Sun is a center.

The question that bothers me is this:

Why does The Great Goddess on many depictions (in many cultures, and many different time periods) portrayed as a star, or with a star, and with dogs?

Dogs suppose to symbolize the Dog star, right?

The question is: What does a Dog represent and what connection does it have with the Great Goddess?

 

[Persej]

The question that bothers me is this:

Why does The Great Goddess on many depictions (in many cultures, and many different time periods) portrayed as a star, or with a star, and with dogs?

Dogs suppose to symbolize the Dog star, right?

The question is: What does a Dog represent and what connection does it have with the Great Goddess?

Well, considering what we know now, thanks to Laura's research, I think that this Sirius or Seirios fits the description of a comet quite well. Take a look at this:

Diodorus Siculus, Library of History 4. 81. 1 (trans. Oldfather) (Greek historian C1st B.C.) :
"A plague [i.e. a pestilence arising in a time of drought] prevailed throughout Greece the sacrifice he offered there was on behalf of all the Greeks. And since the sacrifice was made at the time of the rising of the star Seirios, which is the period when the Etesian winds customarily blow, the pestilential diseases, we are told, came to an end. Now the man who ponders upon this event may reasonably marvel at the strange turn which fortune took; for the same man [Aristaios] who saw his son [Aktaion] done to death by the dogs likewise put an end to the influence of the star which, of all the stars of heaven, bears the same name [i.e. Seirios was known as the dog-star] and is thought to bring destruction upon mankind, and by so doing was responsible for saving the lives of the rest."

Homer, Iliad 22. 26 ff :
"That star [Seirios, the dog-star] which comes on in the autumn and whose conspicuous brightness far outshines the stars that are numbered in the night’s darkening, the star they give the name of Orion’s Dog (kynos Orionos), which is brightest among the stars, and yet is wrought as a sign of evil and brings on the great fever for unfortunate mortals."

Hesiod, Works and Days 414 ff (trans. Evelyn-White) (Greek epic C8th or 7th B.C.) :
"When the piercing power and sultry heat of the sun abate, and almighty Zeus sends the autumn rains [October], and men's flesh comes to feel far easier,--for then Aster Seirios (the star Sirius) passes over the heads of men, who are born to misery, only a little while by day and takes greater share of night."

Apollonius Rhodius, Argonautica 3. 958 ff (trans. Rieu) (Greek epic C3rd B.C.) :
"Like Seirios rising from Okeanos, brilliant and beautiful but full of menace for the flocks."

Quintus Smyrnaeus, Fall of Troy 8. 30 ff (trans. Way) (Greek epic C4th A.D.) :
"From the ocean-verge upsprings Helios (the Sun) in glory, flashing fire far over earth - fire, when beside his radiant chariot-team races the red star Seirios, scatterer if woefullest diseases over men."

Statius, Silvae 3. 1. 5 (trans. Mozley) (Roman poetry C1st A.D.) :
"Twas the season when the vault of heaven bends its most scorching heat upon the earth, and Sirius the Dog-star smitten by Hyperion’s [the sun's] full might pitilessly burns the panting fields."

http://www.theoi.com/Titan/AsterSeirios.html

Sounds like you Great Mother Goddess was a very evil Goddess, yes? Or perhaps she was sometimes good and sometimes evil, depending on where she passes on her orbit.

Why dogs? Well maybe she had fragments around her that were producing some sounds that sounded like barking of the dogs.

 

[Εἰρήνη]

Persej, very interesting assumption! Did you refer to laura's thoughts that I quoted above, or something else?
And thank you for your contribution to the discussion and for the link - very useful.
Now I need to ponder so we can continue our discussion.

 

[Persej]

Persej, very interesting assumption! Did you refer to laura's thoughts that I quoted above, or something else?

She talked about that topic in her Secret History 2 book which is called Comets and the Horns of Moses: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1897244835

And thank you for your contribution to the discussion and for the link - very useful.
Now I need to ponder so we can continue our discussion.

Ok. :)

 

[seek10]

Persej, thank you for your response.
You are right, archetypal Sun is a center.

The question that bothers me is this:

Why does The Great Goddess on many depictions (in many cultures, and many different time periods) portrayed as a star, or with a star, and with dogs?

Dogs suppose to symbolize the Dog star, right?

It looks 4 dogs represent 4 veda's w.r.t the above picture . _http://www.sanskritimagazine.com/indian-religions/hinduism/sacred-animals-hinduism/ .
The interpretations can vary from one region to other region. When compared with importance of other animals in Hinduism, dogs have relatively less importance. Some times we have to consider artistic preferences of painter too.

 

[Persej]

Lord Dattatreya is considered to be an incarnation of the Hindu Trinity – Brahma, Vishnu and Mahesh. He is usually depicted with three heads symbolizing each of the Trinity, depicting past, present & future and the three states of consciousness of waking, dreaming and dreamless sleep. He is always shown with four dogs, each symbolizing the four Vedas.

That would explain the picture. Thank you seek10.

The interpretations can vary from one region to other region. When compared with importance of other animals in Hinduism, dogs have relatively less importance. Some times we have to consider artistic preferences of painter too.

Yes, we have to be careful not to mix apples with oranges, i.e. myths of one culture with the myths of another.

 

[Εἰρήνη]

seek10, Persej, Christine, Keit, thank you for your thoughts.

Yes, Lord Dattatreya is considered to be an incarnation of the Hindu Trinity – Mahesh (Shiva), Vishnu and Brahma, which represent the inferior world, the superior world, and the supreme world. These 3 gods dwell within the Universal/zodiacal shell, which supposedly needs to be pierced by the Hero in order to contemplate the divine. The trinity is united by the Goddess.

Another example:
Imagine rainbow colors as separate spheres aligned vertically, and each sphere/color merges into the neighboring sphere, just like the rainbow.

Sorry, I could not find a better picture and I don't know how to insert the one I made:

The Red sphere merging with the Yellow make Orange, and these 3 interconnected colors represent the lower world within the shell.

The Blue sphere merging with the Violet makes Indigo; all 3 of them together represent the higher center.

The third trinity in the middle is comprised of Yellow and Blue merging into Green - the middle (4 out of 7). This sphere partakes of the nature of 2 other spheres, lower and higher. That is the essence of the Universal Goddess: she absorbs the other energies (gods), that dwell within the shell, into her nature.

He is always shown with four dogs, each symbolizing the four Vedas.

I wonder, Why are there 4 Vedas, not 1 or 3 or 7?

Seek 10, the dogs could be the artistic preference of the painter. But why did so many painters chose dogs?

And I agree, Persej, we should be very careful not to mix apples and oranges. Please help me not to mix everything into the soup.

However,

The Great Goddess is an anthropomorphic representation of a certain sphere of consciousness. As many religions show, the Goddess has many faces, meaning that there are many different energies that can bind to the same sphere of consciousness. Some of them can be favorable for human development, some of them are can be destructive.

In many ancient religions the lower/destructive energies within the Monad of the Goddess are depicted as symbols placed by the Goddess’ feet, such as snakes, dogs, and a square stone. Higher energies are placed from the waist up, such as the sun disk, or a lotus flower.

Dogs are always by the feet; they probably represent lower, perhaps more destructive, energy within the sphere of the Goddess.

The dog creature Cerberus is also associated with the Goddess. According to the website kindly provided by Persej, theoi.com,

KERBEROS (or Cerberus) was the gigantic hound which guarded the gates of Haides. He was posted to prevent ghosts of the dead from leaving the underworld. Kerberos was described as a three-headed dog with a serpent's tail, a mane of snakes, and a lion's claws. Some say he had fifty heads, though this number might have included the heads of his serpentine mane

Hekate & Cerberus, Apulian red-figure krater
C4th B.C., Antikensammlungen, Munich

It can be understood that the Cerberus represent the lowest energy within the Goddess sphere of consciousness, the energy that represents the dwelling place of the mortals. Three-headed dog Cerberus can also be analogous to the three murderers of the Hiramic legend driven by ambition, envy and ignorance, the very energies that destroy souls, as Manly P. Hall suggests.

In another myth the Goddess Artemis’s dogs devoured Aktaion (4 dogs are depicted here). Perhaps, Aktaion represents a lost soul. This myth about Artemis and Aktaion, and other similar myths agree that the person, who gets eaten by the dogs, did something to offend the Goddess. Maybe it can be understood that the person, by engaging into ambition, envy, ignorance and lack of awareness, lowered his vibrations and reached the realm of the devouring face of the Goddess.

The Goddess, by the way, does not only relate to Earth, it represents the physical realm, including other cosmic bodies.

Dogs have certain traits: they serve, and they depend on their owners. I can see how the energy of destruction is an important element of the material world, and serves as a link in a death-regeneration cycle of the Goddess.

I can see the connection between dogs and the Moon. Dogs howl at the Moon. Do they howl only at the full Moon? Don’t know. Anyway, that means that dogs are somehow sensitive to the Moon. The alternating rise and fall in sea level with respect to the land, produced by the gravitational attraction of the moon and the sun. To a much smaller extent, tides also occur in large lakes, the atmosphere, and within the solid crust of the earth, acted upon by these same gravitational forces of the moon and sun. These are events related to a monthly cycle. The inundation of the Nile is an event related to annual changes. That could mean that at least one more celestial body can be involved in the annual water cycle.
According to the Wikipedia,

The flooding of the Nile has been an important natural cycle in Egypt since ancient times. It is celebrated by Egyptians as an annual holiday for two weeks starting August 15, known as Wafaa El-Nil. Ancient Egyptians believed that the Nile flooded every year because of Isis's tears of sorrow for her dead husband, Osiris. The flooding cycle was so consistent that the Egyptians timed its onset using the heliacal rising of Sirius [?], the key event used to set their calendar.
The first indications of the rise of the river may be seen as early as the beginning of June, and a steady increase goes on until the middle of July, when the increase of water becomes very great. The Nile continues to rise until the beginning of September, when the level that remains stationary for a period of about three weeks, sometimes a little less. In October it rises again, and reaches its highest level. From this period it begins to subside, and though it rises yet once more and reaches occasionally its former highest point, it sinks steadily until the month of June when it is again at its lowest level.
The first new moon following the reappearance of Sirius after it disappeared under the horizon for 70 days was established as the first day of the New Year ( Egypt: wepet senet) and of the achet (flood) period--even if the Nile had not yet started to rise

Apparently the Egyptian calendar was based on the cycles of the Moon and another celestial body (Sirius?) that together influence the cyclic changes of the river that provides them life. River Nile for Egyptians, and the sacred river Gang for Indians (Shiva on the picture above is depicted with the waters of the river Gang above his head).

What does the Goddess have to do with it? Goddess is responsible for fertility and harvest. Inundation brings fertile waters in which seeds of new life can be planted.


At the moment I don't know enough about the possible connections between dogs howling, the phases of the Moon and the inundation of the Nile.

 

[Kisito]

Interesting that the dog star Sirius, a triple star. Cerber and the dog that guards the underworld has three heads and a lizard's tail!

 

[Persej]

Interesting that the dog star Sirius, a triple star. Cerber and the dog that guards the underworld has three heads and a lizard's tail!

Nope, it's a binary star: Sirius A and Sirius B. And stars don't have tails, but comets do. :)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sirius