Babies feel pain like us

Interesting discussion.
I remember cutting myself as a two year old, and that was like 66 years ago!
This could be the point where our immature minds "Wake up" and at which our souls enter the body.

The other thing is there could be some 'lizzie feeding' going on as the "Loosh" is generated.

There is a means here of distinguishing empaths from psychopaths too, as psychopaths will not be concerned about the pain others feel, but empaths will.
 
Not long ago I had a conversation with my veterinary colleagues about pain. And one of them shared the paper named "Effect of neonatal circumcision on pain response during subsequent routine vaccination". Not sure if it was mentioned on one of the threads before. As expected paper's conclusions are rather disturbing.

Neonatal circumcision is a common surgical procedure in male infants. Despite evidence that circumcision causes intense pain and short-term alterations in infant feeding, sleeping, and crying behaviours,1–3 analgesia is rarely given. There is a common belief that the effects of circumcision pain are short-lived and clinically insignificant, and, therefore, that the benefits of analgesic treatment do not outweigh the risks of adverse effects from currently available therapies.

We looked at the foundations for the belief that the effects of circumcision pain are short-lived by examining infant behaviour several months after surgery. We analysed data from a clinical trial that studied the use of topical lidocaine-prilocaine 5% cream (Emla, Astra Pharma, Canada) during routine vaccination at 4 or 6 months. Male infants showed a greater pain response than female infants. This difference may be linked with neonatal circumcision in male infants. Male infants who had been circumcised also exhibited a greater pain response than those who had not been circumcised. This initial analysis raised concerns about the possible longterm effects of untreated pain in infants, especially those who have repeated experience of pain. However, we could not draw definite conclusions because of the post-hoc nature of the analysis and the small sample size. The objectives of our study were, therefore, to investigate prospectively whether neonatal circumcision affects infant pain response to routine vaccination 4–6 months after surgery and whether vaccination response is affected by pretreatment of neonatal circumcision pain with Emla...

This study showed that neonatal circumcision in male infants is associated with increased pain response in vaccination 4–6 months after surgery. The results support our previous finding of a higher pain response in circumcised than uncircumcised male infants during routine vaccination. We postulate that circumcision may induce long-lasting changes in infant pain behaviour because of alterations in the infant’s central neural processing of painful stimuli. Transmission of noxious afferent input from the periphery (eg, brought about by skin incision) to the spinal cord induces a sustained state of central neural sensitisation or hyperexcitability that amplifies subsequent input from the wound and leads to increased postoperative pain.

This paper was brought up in reference to our discussion about pain in animals, and the colleague mentioned recent studies on this topic, and how contrary to humans early trauma in animals doesn't seem to have a particular effect on pain, but it does have a significant effect on behavior.
 

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Well, I also heard about this notion, but it had to do with "babies not remembering the pain that was caused to them". Meaning, many doctors here claim that it's not a big deal for a baby to experience pain because they quickly forget about it.

Yet, as an adult, if you undergo hypnosis with a qualified practitioner and you relive the trauma of birth, you will physically and emotionally display the same symptoms of pain and confusion. Same goes for any medical procedures including circumcision.

Sometimes, I think articles like this are meant to de-sensitize us into believing a specific concept, so that medical experimentation or even "rape" can be "legally reclassified as less traumatic" in babies, toddlers and young adults?

An example: If you have been following or have read - any of the recent reports coming out - concerning the Catholic Church and rape of hundred's of adolescents by "so-called Priests and clergy" and their high priced Lawyer's trying to portray the victims "as too young to remember the event" and because they have survived "did not suffer", then reading an article like the one above, points to a hidden agenda. Namely, if babies don't feel any pain, then I guess, adolescents don't feel any pain, either? Which begs the question, "At what point, do children feel pain?" More like - ask a stupid question - expect a stupid reply back!
 
Sometimes, I think articles like this are meant to de-sensitize us into believing a specific concept, so that medical experimentation or even "rape" can be "legally reclassified as less traumatic" in babies, toddlers and young adults?

I am sorry, perhaps I misunderstood you, but the above article says that infants DO feel pain and do remember. :huh:
 
angelburst29 can it be an "out of context" that you made of Keit's post from the thread ?
Anyway i repost here latulipenoire's link and the Sott's one:
//rt.com/uk/251629-babies-pain-adults-mri/
Babies feel pain 'like adults', MRI scan study suggests -- Sott.net

Pain in babies
, and whether babies feel pain, has been a large subject of debate within the medical profession for centuries. Prior to the late nineteenth century it was generally considered that babies hurt more easily than adults. It was only in the last quarter of the 20th century that scientific techniques finally established babies definitely do experience pain – probably more than adults – and has developed reliable means of assessing and of treating it. As recently as 1999, it was commonly stated that babies could not feel pain until they were a year old, but today it is believed newborns and likely even fetuses beyond a certain age can experience pain.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pain_in_b

Really for some, suffering is their best meal, and i wonder if those "scientifics techniques"would not come from some
critters in white coat.
 
I am sorry, perhaps I misunderstood you, but the above article says that infants DO feel pain and do remember. :huh:

Thank you Keit, for bringing that correction up. You are correct - that the article does state, "Babies DO feel pain."

Unfortunately and to my dismay - what I Posted was "out of context" (Thank you Zak) to what was running through my mind, at that moment.

Sometimes, I think articles like this are meant to de-sensitize us into believing a specific concept, so that medical experimentation or even "rape" can be "legally reclassified as less traumatic" in babies, toddlers and young adults?

"I think articles like this are meant to de-sensitize us into believing a specific concept" - I totally screwed up that sentence because I did not clarify what I was thinking ...

Quote from the RT article:

The study reveals that newborn minors have suffered in silence and gone through painful periods without any type of painkillers to ease their agony.

The findings from Oxford University doctors prove that babies not only feel pain, but they have a lower pain threshold than adults.

Dr. Rebeccah Slater from Oxford’s Department of Paediatrics says it is “obvious” babies are incapable of communicating their experiences of pain, which makes it “difficult to infer pain from visual observations.

In fact some people have argued that babies’ brains are not developed enough for them to really ‘feel’ pain, any reaction being just a reflex,” she added.

Slater said the study provides “the first really strong evidence” that this is not the case, and infants are able to feel pain.

She hopes the revelations from the study “provides incentive to more researchers to find better ways of measuring pain in babies.”

Researchers should prioritize the “importance” of providing the best possible pain relief for children, Slater said.

She told Time magazine it is now apparent “for the first time what is happening in babies’ brains while they experience something mildly painful” there should be a “big drive” to attempt to treat the pain in the children. (End quote.)


In the above, the first problem I had with the article was Dr. Rebeccah Slater's statements. I'm assuming, she has a doctorate in Paediatrics, yet I get the impression - she has "book learning" under her belt but very little "field" experience?

"it is “obvious” babies are incapable of communicating their experiences of pain, which makes it “difficult to infer pain from visual observations." If and when a baby feels pain of any sort, it will cry. Depending on the intensity and duration of pain, the baby or child will virtually "scream" - that's not "visual observation"?

" it is now apparent “for the first time what is happening in babies’ brains while they experience something mildly painful
I guess, the problem I'm having is ... because the technology is available, they have "to prove to themselves" that an infant is capable of experiencing pain - the same way an adult does? I wonder, did they also measure the needless bombardment of radiation exposure from the MRI during the testing? Probably, not?

None of this - is to exonerate - that I screwed up the sentence in my Post. I messed up, Big time!

I think, what first distracted me was the phase "newborn minors"? I can't find a definition for that? Minors is generally applied to those 16 years of age and younger.

Not to mix apples and oranges but in a fairly recent report on the Catholic Church, Priests and sexual abuse (State of Pennsylvania) Posted in the Pizzagate thread:

August 14, 2018 - Landmark Pennsylvania grand jury report finds more than 300 'predator priests' sexually abused children
Landmark Pennsylvania grand jury report finds more than 300 'predator priests' sexually abused children

If you go into Court proceedings on this Landmark case, there is several various pdf's with testimony. In one testimony, there is a reference to "newborn minor" which is the first time I came across that term. It's in reference to a child "under the age of one". So, I found it a little strange to see that phase in the RT article.
 
I could never understand how humans can put themselves ABOVE infants!
How dare you discuss if a baby feels pain?
Its so easy to regress yourself into this time and check.
We know, that plants are intelligent and feel pain.
How can we possibly talk OVER babies.
So little respect for them, just because they won't speak back
'our' way and we are too stupid to tune into 'THEIR' way.
So strange this attitude to fall for power abuse for tiny weak ones.
 

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