Baby tantrum

[Michal]

Hello to All,
My son is 3 years old. From time to time he is getting tantrums. And today is the day.
Situation started from that he wanted to drink juice before supper. I said "No. You may have a juice after supper when you feel that you still need that". He became angry and started to shout that he wanted that juice. So me and my wife started to explain that he will not get it until he finish his supper and then may get one. He didn't calm and found out that he want to watch cartoon. We said that he may start watching it after he calms down and ask for it. We asked him to ask for saying "may I watch TV" instead of shouting at us. He became more angry and we were trying to ignore him, talking to each other about different matters of today's day.
He came to me and was trying to stop shouting and when he finally was able to speak normal he asked for the cartoon and I let him watch. My wife said that I was to quick in being so generous because he did not calm down but only looked like forced himself to get what he wanted. Well... true. After that, because he was crying half an hour or so, his watching time shortened to only 3 minutes. I said after that that "now is the time to wash your teeth and go to sleep". And this he did not accepted and started to shout again that "I do not want to brush my teeth!!! I do not want to go to sleep!!!". So we forced him to go to the bathroom and forced him to go to sleep. It was my wife's turn to put him to bed. He was furious and saying "no" to anything we wanted.
I did not know what to do. Ignoring maybe was the best. We did not want to show him that he may win anything by shouting and demanding from us whatever he wants. I was also sorry for him that he did not want to accept the way we wanted him to talk to us. I do not want to break him. My wife acts more cold in such a situation and she counts to three and if this does not help in following her commands she takes him to the bathroom or wherever and makes him do things. This does not make our kid calm but maybe he is learing that even in bad emotion he may do things... I do not know.
I wait more for him and trying to explain. Usually I am waiting for the moment when he becomes calm and is able to listen and then asking him about how he understand such a demands or situation. For example last time when he wanted me to put him to bed he got tantrum and we were helpless. Finally after ignoring him and trying to explain I came to my wife and hugged her and watching him and waiting for him to come closer to us. When he finally did we together hugged and were in calm for some time and then I was asking him questions whether he knows that today mom is putting him to bed and that we do it every day once me once her and that we like to tell him stories before sleep and that today I will not read for him because today mom will do but tomorrow I will do it. I told him that I know that he laughs a lot when my wife is telling stories because that's true and I asked him also if he likes when my wife is storytelling and he said that yes. He was calm but anyway I stayed in his room just being there with my wife and waiting until he got asleep. When I was leaving the room before he was again crying. Maybe this was too much compromise?
So any suggestions from your side? Please.

 

[Palinurus]

Hi Mikel,

Provided there are no other problems with your son which could be attributed to outside factors or diet or something, I would say you both are more than generous towards him in handling his occasional temper states. From what I remember out of my own personal background, your son is at the age where the battle of wills starts to get really going. This is a normal development. Your son is just discovering that he not always has to go along with his parents wishes and that he has likings and dislikings of his own which he expects to be taken into account every once in a while - all within reason and without breaking rules already set, except in rare occasions that allow for something of that nature.
It's very hard to be firm and understanding at the same time, but from your description I gather you're both doing a great job at that. So in my opinion there is no real problem here, as far as I can see.

 

[Laura]

When a child behaves the way you have described, there is most likely something deeper going on. Either diet (juice is bad for kids - read the diet threads) or family dynamics. You can't just describe an incident like this without giving a whole lot of context and expect competent advice.

What is the child's diet like? What is your diet like? What about genetics? Does he have play friends and has he been spending time with them. What about television? You said he wanted to watch it... so, what kinds of shows does he watch and how much? Just a whole host of things that are not included.

 

[Buddy]

Yes, I agree that there are way too many unknown variables here.

Perhaps you could think about this:

1) He says "no!" because that is what he learns from you and mother. Maybe you are getting back what you give? When you speak "up" to him, he responds very well, doesn't he? If you do more of that, maybe you will get back more of that.

2) You may have to use self-discipline (until he feels he can trust you) to keep yourself from treating him as if the way he sees things doesn't matter. Why? Because the way he sees things is why he behaves the way he does and that is what you are asking to understand.

3) Try to find ways to say yes when you really mean no. Example: He says he wants juice. You say: You can have this drink or this drink (choices) because it will make your body work better or feel better at bedtime (or something like that).

It sounds to me like maybe he just wants to be treated better, or at least understand the "why" behind your demands and behavior.

Try to pretend and to treat him like he is smarter than you think he is, because he might be.

Just my thoughts and I could be wrong, so maybe just think about this?

 

[madison]

When a child behaves the way you have described, there is most likely something deeper going on.

To paraphrase a comment of your own Laura, ('sometimes a cigar is just a cigar' I think it was) sometimes a tantrum is just a tantrum. The child is 3 years old - as the subject line acknowledges he is still a baby. Kids have tantrums all the time without there being anything 'deeper going on'. Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

 

[truth seeker]

When a child behaves the way you have described, there is most likely something deeper going on.

To paraphrase a comment of your own Laura, ('sometimes a cigar is just a cigar' I think it was) sometimes a tantrum is just a tantrum. The child is 3 years old - as the subject line acknowledges he is still a baby. Kids have tantrums all the time without there being anything 'deeper going on'. Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

While children at that age can be prone to tantrums, many times it is caused by diet or other environmental factors. That's the reason the questions were asked, in order to get to the bottom of it. Looking for other factors that can help alleviate the situation isn't being paranoid, it's seeking enough objective truth in order to discern what's really going on.

Paranoia would be more akin to picking out information that supports one's views while ignoring the whole, such as you have done by taking that sentence out of context.

 

[ana]

When a child behaves the way you have described, there is most likely something deeper going on.

To paraphrase a comment of your own Laura, ('sometimes a cigar is just a cigar' I think it was) sometimes a tantrum is just a tantrum. The child is 3 years old - as the subject line acknowledges he is still a baby. Kids have tantrums all the time without there being anything 'deeper going on'. Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

Is there any reason you turning your post into a direct attack on Laura instead of expressing your ideas about what might happen with the child?
This is simply not tolerated in this forum madison.

 

[Alana]

When a child behaves the way you have described, there is most likely something deeper going on.

To paraphrase a comment of your own Laura, ('sometimes a cigar is just a cigar' I think it was) sometimes a tantrum is just a tantrum. The child is 3 years old - as the subject line acknowledges he is still a baby. Kids have tantrums all the time without there being anything 'deeper going on'. Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

While children at that age can be prone to tantrums, many times it is caused by diet or other environmental factors. That's the reason the questions were asked, in order to get to the bottom of it. Looking for other factors that can help alleviate the situation isn't being paranoid, it's seeking enough objective truth in order to discern what's really going on.

Paranoia would be more akin to picking out information that supports one's views while ignoring the whole, such as you have done by taking that sentence out of context.

Exactly! Madison, unlike Laura's questions, who is genuinely trying to help Mikel after he requested for it, how is your comment helping him/this discussion? I also don't understand your need to come off as strong, to what amounts to subjective criticism and name calling in this case. The fact of the matter is that I know many 3-year olds who do not throw tantrums. There is something going on here that needs some adjustment/change, first and foremost for the child's sake and his future development. I am shocked that you can't see this and jump in as if just to attack Laura!

 

[Laura]

When a child behaves the way you have described, there is most likely something deeper going on.

To paraphrase a comment of your own Laura, ('sometimes a cigar is just a cigar' I think it was) sometimes a tantrum is just a tantrum. The child is 3 years old - as the subject line acknowledges he is still a baby. Kids have tantrums all the time without there being anything 'deeper going on'. Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

Actually, I've never seen a child have a tantrum when there wasn't something deeper going on. If you think having tantrums is normal for children, I find that jaw-dropping. I raised five and not one of them ever had a tantrum.

 

[Niall]

Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

Those are very snide and derogatory comments to make about the owner of a forum you are a guest in.

 

[Gimpy]

Situation started from that he wanted to drink juice before supper. I said "No. You may have a juice after supper when you feel that you still need that". He became angry and started to shout that he wanted that juice.

Sugar is a tough addiction for anyone, especially children. There may be alot more going on with that.

My Husband, for an example, has decided to quit consuming sugar after doing a food elimination and finding he felt much better overall without sugar.

Yet, when he actually started to cut out excess sugar, he realized how much he'd been consuming it, and the very idea that he couldn't 'have it', brought out intense emotions, and they were not unlike a young child throwing a tantrum.

He realized this, and expressed shock to me that he was going through it. But I brought his attention back to the fact that as a young child, he was often deprived of the basics of life by his alcoholic parents, and while he's removing sugar from his diet to better his health, those emotions also need airing out somehow...why not through this?

Please think through the behavior of your child and look for moments when he's been withheld from 'having something' and for what reasons. Children know a lot more than they are given credit for, but they seldom understand all that information.

Just fwiw, I don't have children but I do remember what it was like to be three and pitch a fit. ;)

 

[Joe]

Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

Nothing like insulting your host, especially using the spurious allegations of long-term haters.

 

[Gimpy]

Kids have tantrums all the time without there being anything 'deeper going on'.

Well, I never threw a fit without reason as a child. A lot of it had to do with being very aware that I WAS a child, fwiw.

Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

Sounds like you've reached your limit for the moment. Why don't you take a break and a walk, and come back when you're not as prickly? Or, better, take a break and figure out if this is the forum for you?

Information overload can hit right before burnout sets in...we've all been there. If you're getting this angry its time to stop awhile.

 

[ark]

When a child behaves the way you have described, there is most likely something deeper going on.

To paraphrase a comment of your own Laura, ('sometimes a cigar is just a cigar' I think it was) sometimes a tantrum is just a tantrum. The child is 3 years old - as the subject line acknowledges he is still a baby. Kids have tantrums all the time without there being anything 'deeper going on'. Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

And what is the basis of this statement? I see none. Therefore it is just your opinion. Can you accept the possibility that your opinion may be totally wrong? From your conclusion I guess that it is not your way. Which tells us something about you. Otherwise what you wrote is not very useful or insigthful.

And yes, sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. But sometimes it is not. The devil is in the details. Good to remember!

In this particular case it may indeed be a diet and/or the family dynamics. Not even the actual one, but the one with deeper roots and hard to pinpoint. Also hard to give another advice than: watch carefully the moment when the phenomenon starts, get smart enough to be able to predict it. Change your behavior before it starts rather than only after. Difficult but with time and effort it may lead to a positive outcome.

Of course I may be wrong - after all I am only a physicist. But, perhaps, a point of view of a physicist may also be useful in this discussion.

 

[vinny]

To paraphrase a comment of your own Laura, ('sometimes a cigar is just a cigar' I think it was) sometimes a tantrum is just a tantrum. The child is 3 years old - as the subject line acknowledges he is still a baby. Kids have tantrums all the time without there being anything 'deeper going on'. Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

I would commend Mikel on attempting to look deeper, and trying to understand his son as much as possible in order to do the best for him. However, I agree with others that more info is definitely needed. I don't think that your response is useful - it is a strange and suggestive thing to say, and pretty insensitive.

There can be a wide range of reasons why a child acts up, but rarely (ever?) is there no reason at all. The occasional 'off day' might be expected, but you can bet your bottom dollar there's 'something' going on behind it (even if you don't aways find out what) - You do get more familiar with the signs after a while though, it's like a special vocabulary.

If there's some kind of recurring pattern, or an apparent 'phase' of behaviour, then this is surely going to be intricately tied to the child's life experiences in some way, maybe to do with hitting a particular developmental stage.

I guess, in addition to others' comments, I would ask Mikel: is there anything that has changed recently in this child's life? A difference in routine perhaps? Also, at the age of 3 he is going through rapid development anyway, and it could be that he is going through some 'learning curve'. The 'terrible two's are well known to be challenging, as children (and parents!) learn to deal with new depths of emotion and awareness, as well as learning about boundaries, but at 3 years old could it be some continuation of that process?