Baby tantrum

[Peam]

When a child behaves the way you have described, there is most likely something deeper going on.

To paraphrase a comment of your own Laura, ('sometimes a cigar is just a cigar' I think it was) sometimes a tantrum is just a tantrum. The child is 3 years old - as the subject line acknowledges he is still a baby. Kids have tantrums all the time without there being anything 'deeper going on'. Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

But you're missing something here I think, what causes these tantrums.

I have three grown up children, none of them had tantrums of the sort which Mikel describes. When they were kids and growing up, they had very little sugary stuff like sweets and “juice”. I suppose it was due to living in a rural area village and having few sweets shops in the area. They were introduced to tea without sugar at an early age, and they still drink tea without sugar even now. On a side note all three of them haven't a tooth filling between them.

But having said that, one of my grandchildren had screaming tantrums very often in the first three or four years, and his mother (my daughter) is not only vegetarian (and had a difficult pregnancy maybe due to that) but also used to refer to the sugary drinks which she gave my grandchildren as “juice”. This word conjures up some sort of uncontrolled energy input thing.

Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

You seem to be missing a point that just because something is a “run-of-the-mill scenario” that it should be treated as “normal” and everyone must accept it without looking deeper into the causes.

 

[Buddy]

When a child behaves the way you have described, there is most likely something deeper going on.

To paraphrase a comment of your own Laura, ('sometimes a cigar is just a cigar' I think it was) sometimes a tantrum is just a tantrum. The child is 3 years old - as the subject line acknowledges he is still a baby. Kids have tantrums all the time without there being anything 'deeper going on'. Always looking for hidden meaning in ordinary run-of-the-mill scenarios has left you deeply paranoid it seems. Next you'll be saying that the child is cointelpro or a psychopath.

Now, now madison. Retract the claws. Laura's statement is Prima facie valid. We already know much about how previously suffered trauma can be restimulated to drive anyone's behavior.

There is potential from biological factors:

For example, problem behaviors like rage and temper tantrums from children misdiagnosed AD/HD have been traced to bacterial infection:

Two forms of bacteria that can be passed by ticks, fleas, and mosquitoes may cause symptoms of rage and hyperactivity that doctors can mistake for ADHD, some experts say. The bacterial infections--bartonella and babesia--are often missed on blood tests because they are not immediately obvious. But this oversight means that some children may be undergoing treatment for ADHD when a simple antibiotic would be more appropriate, says parasite infection researcher Dr. James Schaller. In this article from MSNBC, a reporter talks to Schaller and a parent about the implications of misdiagnosing a bacteria for a neurological development disorder.
_http://www.healthcentral.com/adhd/news-286146-98.html

Also...

Recent research at McMaster University that appears in the online edition of the journal Gastroenterology shows conclusive evidence that bacteria residing in the gut influences brain chemistry and behavior.

The findings are important because several common types of gastrointestinal diseases, including irritable bowel syndrome (IBS), are frequently associated with anxiety or depression. In addition there has been speculation that some psychiatric disorders, such as late onset autism, may be associated with an abnormal bacterial content in the gut.

For everyone, the gut is home to about 1,000 trillion bacteria with which we live in harmony. These bacteria perform a number of functions vital to health: They harvest energy from the diet, protect against infections and provide nutrition to cells in the gut. Any disruption can result in life-threatening conditions, such as antibiotic-induced colitis from infection with the “superbug” Clostridium difficile.

More info: sciencedaily.com/releases/2011/05/110517110315.htm

These tests may also reveal problems:

...a complete metabolic, CBC with differential, ferritin, vitamin D and thyroid panel can show if a patient has low ferritin stores, low vitamin D levels or hypo or hyperthyroidism.

Also, the Microbial Oat Test (MOAT) could reveal treatable issues. This is a send-out test through the Great Plains Laboratory. It is a urine test that shows metabolites produced by yeast and bacteria. They can be related to yeast or bacterial dysbiosis.
_http://kidsfamiliesplanet.com/2011/04/21/what-to-do-when-your-child-has-been-diagnosed-with-addadhd/
_http://endadhd.com/health-news/gut-bacteria-and-brain-chemistry

What were you thinking? :)

 

[hjackson]

I thought the whole point of beverages is to accompany meals. I drink water when I'm not eating.

 

[ocean59]

I thought the whole point of beverages is to accompany meals. I drink water when I'm not eating.

Does this have anything at all to do with what is being discussed here? This thread really doesn't need any more noise IMO.

 

[hjackson]

Does this have anything at all to do with what is being discussed here? This thread really doesn't need any more noise IMO.

Too much juice can be unhealthy from what I've read. I would think that might be a contributing factor.

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I'd say the opposite is true - never looking for "hidden meaning" in quite exceptional events (that are also assumed to be ordinary with no data or consideration given) is a sign of disinterest in reality or the well being of others, even your own children. Good luck with that attitude!

 

[Buddy]

Bud: Now, now madison. Retract the claws. Laura's statement is Prima facie valid. Only prima facie valid? That’s not much of an endorsement for the big chief now is it?

Not "only", rather "extant" (existing in fact). Look again at the wording of the statement:

[quote author=Laura]
When a child behaves the way you have described, there is most likely something deeper going on.[/quote]

The statement is valid on its face because there is no indication or reason to believe that the behavior described is normal for that child, else, why would the original poster bother posting?

But then, that doesn't seem to be what's really bothering you.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Bud: Now, now madison. Retract the claws. Laura's statement is Prima facie valid. Only prima facie valid? That’s not much of an endorsement for the big chief now is it?

Not "only", rather "extant" (existing in fact). Look again at the wording of the statement:

[quote author=Laura]
When a child behaves the way you have described, there is most likely something deeper going on.

The statement is valid on its face because there is no indication or reason to believe that the behavior described is normal for that child, else, why would the original poster bother posting?

But then, that doesn't seem to be what's really bothering you.
[/quote]

Madison/Eauclaire has made it crystal clear that he/she came here with an agenda, has been banned and this latest post removed. It contained numerous insults and violated the rules of this forum.

 

[treerocks]

I was thinking you may want to consider writing down the incident with as many details you can remember. You may want your wife to also add her viewpoint as well. It may make it easier to compare with future situations. I know for myself I forget a lot of details even as a short time period passes, and sometimes they are the biggest clues!!!

T

 

[cassandra]

Occasionally my daughter would also have tantrums. She got so angry and frustrated, she almost made herself ill.
The only thing that would help would be to take her in my arms and hold her tightly and soothe her. She was scared of whatever it was that had got hold of her and needed reassurance, love and calm.
I also used to have tantrums when I was little, but I was always punished.

 

[Michal]

Hi All,
Dietary influence - could be - I will watch. This sugar thing ... yes. I need to consolidate my efforts together with my wife. From my side, dietary change is experiment and I just did not wanted to change my family before I check it works for me.

Anyway, influence of sugar on things like yeast and immunological system are very likely so we were long time now limiting sugar especially sweats which are really rarely consumed in our home... Hmmm.
But recently like since our vacation our daily schedule has been strongly influenced and after one month now we are coming back to our daily routines with eating and sleeping. And that is fact that last two months my son was eating more sweats than ever.

We have not banned sweats completely and normally he was getting sweets when in home only occasionally. Maybe once per week. We have not controlled kindergarten well and we know that there was too much of sweet cakes in there because kids were also making them together with their lady each week and getting also almost every day some cookie for desert.

For myself now I have or trying to completely eliminate any kinds of sweets and limit as much as possible carbohydrates. For my kid I have not thought yet for example what to do with cocoa. We are giving him for breakfest and dinner 0.33 l of cocoa and milk. I know that there is a lot of sugar...
I read that milk is digestible up to 5th year of age so maybe I would not replace yet milk but cocoa I think must be.

Family dynamics: what does that mean? May I ask you for hints or some direction what were You meaning? And how to relate this to outburst of emotion like this tantrum. Any book?

Thank You very much for support and possibilities to take a look.

 

[Laura]

The effects of sugary drinks and foods (not to mention toxic chemical additives) on the moods and behavior of children are widely known and acknowledged even in mainstream science. There are lots of research articles and mainstream articles on sott's "health" section if you want to scroll through and get some background material.

Like I said, there is an underlying reason for any externally manifested behavior, you just need to find the stimulus. The most common and easiest to fix is dietary... and even the best parents and best kids can have issues if their diet is bad.

 

[seek10]

Hello to All,
My son is 3 years old. From time to time he is getting tantrums. And today is the day.
Situation started from that he wanted to drink juice before supper. I said "No. You may have a juice after supper when you feel that you still need that". He became angry and started to shout that he wanted that juice. So me and my wife started to explain that he will not get it until he finish his supper and then may get one. He didn't calm and found out that he want to watch cartoon. We said that he may start watching it after he calms down and ask for it. We asked him to ask for saying "may I watch TV" instead of shouting at us. He became more angry and we were trying to ignore him, talking to each other about different matters of today's day.
He came to me and was trying to stop shouting and when he finally was able to speak normal he asked for the cartoon and I let him watch. My wife said that I was to quick in being so generous because he did not calm down but only looked like forced himself to get what he wanted. Well... true. After that, because he was crying half an hour or so, his watching time shortened to only 3 minutes. I said after that that "now is the time to wash your teeth and go to sleep". And this he did not accepted and started to shout again that "I do not want to brush my teeth!!! I do not want to go to sleep!!!". So we forced him to go to the bathroom and forced him to go to sleep. It was my wife's turn to put him to bed. He was furious and saying "no" to anything we wanted.
I did not know what to do. Ignoring maybe was the best. We did not want to show him that he may win anything by shouting and demanding from us whatever he wants. I was also sorry for him that he did not want to accept the way we wanted him to talk to us. I do not want to break him. My wife acts more cold in such a situation and she counts to three and if this does not help in following her commands she takes him to the bathroom or wherever and makes him do things. This does not make our kid calm but maybe he is learing that even in bad emotion he may do things... I do not know.
I wait more for him and trying to explain. Usually I am waiting for the moment when he becomes calm and is able to listen and then asking him about how he understand such a demands or situation. For example last time when he wanted me to put him to bed he got tantrum and we were helpless. Finally after ignoring him and trying to explain I came to my wife and hugged her and watching him and waiting for him to come closer to us. When he finally did we together hugged and were in calm for some time and then I was asking him questions whether he knows that today mom is putting him to bed and that we do it every day once me once her and that we like to tell him stories before sleep and that today I will not read for him because today mom will do but tomorrow I will do it. I told him that I know that he laughs a lot when my wife is telling stories because that's true and I asked him also if he likes when my wife is storytelling and he said that yes. He was calm but anyway I stayed in his room just being there with my wife and waiting until he got asleep. When I was leaving the room before he was again crying. Maybe this was too much compromise?
So any suggestions from your side? Please.

age of 2 or 3 is rough as they are exploring and expressing them selves about wants and don't wants and not sure of the boundaries.

one thing worked for me is I ask my kid to express how he is feeling , what he likes and dislikes that type of question. Yes, when he is in tantrum mode, he may not listen, or he may do it , as it releases his inner tension. encouraging to express and make him part of the fulfillment of it in daily small , small activities helps.

Often fighting between the family members can trigger lot of tension. example kids like both mom and dad, but if there is a tension between the parents , kid feels the pain of losing. this happened to me and pediatrician pointed that out to us , when we discussed about my kids misbehavior in school.

I used to feel bad to say 'NO' to my 3 yr old , but some bad tantrums in front of the guest and I started to say 'No' and put him in time out in sofa and I used to sit with him. Heck, I felt like a monster to make him do it and it took 2 weeks for him to get it.

I have seen kids do Lot of 'All or nothing ' things. there is a pain, some how they want to run away. obviously sugar, wheat , TV are good means. Knowing them is a way to go.

 

[Crystla24]

Right now I have a 4 year old and have freshly experienced this age. I have several opinions and they are just that, raising a child really is not down to a science.

First of all, routine, routine, routine, is always very helpful with young children. As you said, alot had been going on and it sounds like some of the daily routines may have gone awry. I also never seen anyone mention NAPS, this one is a biggy. My son was much more prone to a tantum if he had not gotten his regular nap. They get to playing really hard at that age too, so even if they had a nap but was running at the park or in the sun all day, general exhaustion can do it. Another thing, you mentioned he was in Kindergarden (at 3?), or even at daycare, sometimes they see other children throw tantrums and get their way with a teacher or daycare provider and then think that they can come home and try it.
In my experience, at this age they start going through a stage to test their boundaries. Very frusterating at times. Some my find me old fashioned but if there is no other cause other than the child just trying to get what they want, it should not be tolerated. I think your wife did okay that when the child calmed down, he got to watch cartoons. At that point it seems the child was rewarded for good behavior. During a tantrum I would make my son stand at the wall until he quit. Soon they realize that bad behavior does not get them what they want, but good behavior does. Rewarding them for being good is also a must! (Sorry if I sound like training a dog, lol). I watched a video on child psycology also and I try this...when I see a situation like this coming on, I give my son a choice. I tell him, well you can have something to drink, but then you will not get any cartoons later, Or you can wait 'till after dinner and then you can have your drink while you watch cartoons (for example). They will think about it and make their choice. I usually make the initial choice very unappealing :) and then the latter very appealing. Then when they choose they feel like they had a say-so in the matter and are more likely to be satisfied with the consequences, because it was what THEY decided. Also, this is supposed to teach children to make better decisions through-out their lives while their parents are not around. As teenagers theoretically , they should not be as rebellious to learn their own lessons, but make good decisions themselves to begin with.
When talking about punishment though, make sure the diet and nap stuff is not the problem first, because it is not fair to punish a child if in fact it is your fault that is the resulting behavior. Just wait, at age four they start getting smarter than tantrums and start thinking they can manipulate their way lol, and then they are shocked when you see right through it. Testing their boundaries is a very natural stage I'm pretty sure EVERY child goes through.