Beelzebub's Tales:Second Pass.

[manitoban]

I've begun to read this book and have found that it is much easier to stay focused on it when reading aloud. I know you are supposed to just read it normally on the first pass, and I do start out that way, but I find myself reading it aloud as I go along.

 

[radish]

b/c of the convo's he alludes to including there.

What is a convo?

 

[Beau]

b/c of the convo's he alludes to including there.

What is a convo?

A conversation.

 

[anart]

b/c of the convo's he alludes to including there.

What is a convo?

A conversation.

Yeah, Cyre2067 has a tendency to speak in 'twenty something instant-message' slang - it's not exactly externally considerate, but I don't think he even realizes he does it most of the time. ;)

 

[Jacques]

[
Yeah, Cyre2067 has a tendency to speak in 'twenty something instant-message' slang - it's not exactly externally considerate, but I don't think he even realizes he does it most of the time. ;)

And it is sometimes more difficult for a non english speaker to find the word or should i say to guess the word. =D

 

[Beau]

Yeah, Cyre2067 has a tendency to speak in 'twenty something instant-message' slang - it's not exactly externally considerate, but I don't think he even realizes he does it most of the time. ;)

And it is sometimes more difficult for a non english speaker to find the word or should i say to guess the word. =D

On top of that it's also general laziness to type the full word.

 

[Cyre2067]

Yeah, Cyre2067 has a tendency to speak in 'twenty something instant-message' slang - it's not exactly externally considerate, but I don't think he even realizes he does it most of the time. ;)

And it is sometimes more difficult for a non english speaker to find the word or should i say to guess the word. =D

On top of that it's also general laziness to type the full word.

Whoops, sorry guys, anart's right, i didn't realize i do that... i mean, i know i do it, i just didn't realize it was carrying over here.

Thanks for pointing out the blindspot.

:-\

 

[radish]

No harm done. I just didn't want to miss anything important. :)

 

[D Rusak]

One thing that has helped me in pronouncing the words on my "second pass" has been kind of "metering" out the words that seem way out there to me. I didn't really sense a huge problem with the majority of them, but some of them serve as definite "shocks" to get you awake, conscious, and really paying attention to what you are reading and the things in you that are reacting to this. While trying to figure out how to pronounce a word like "Being-partkdolg-duty" I realized that if I related it to music and tried to say it rhythmically, it was much easier to pronounce. In this case, "being-partkdolg-duty" becomes a 7/8 meter grouped 2+3+2 (be-ing/par-tk-dolg/du-ty). "tk" I think of/pronounce as two sixteenth notes, that is, t-k. That works out with the emphasis on the first syllable of each word.

I don't know if this is super meaningful for all y'all out there but it is something that, once I consciously considered it, has made the reading much easier and fufilling. I'm not spending as much time worrying or getting frustrated or angry(!) at these exotic words, and I can even practice them away from the work (yes, I have been wandering the streets saying "being-partkdolg-duty" etc. to myself). Maybe it just makes sense to me because other than English, music is the primary language my brain Identifies with. Might as well put it to use!

I have noticed that it is much easier to make progress whilst reading aloud. I read Beelzebub, which took me FOREVER (half a year at least) to get through, and constantly struggled with the feeling of drowsiness while doing so. I then read Meetings with Remarkable Men, which was a quite enjoyable and easily engaging read, in less than a week. I guess that's because the stories of his life turned on my imagination. I read "Life is Real" in a similar manner (it was a little more of a struggle) soon afterwards, and now have gone back to the vocal readings.

I'm very intrigued by what Thorbiorn had to say; have others pursued the etymology of G's words?

 

[rjpb]

Being-parktdolg-duty.

For those who care:

parkt is Armenian for duty
dolg is Russion for duty

Hence the meaning being-dutyduty-duty is suggested.

The text thus suggests that conscious labors and intentional suffering are a duty - necessary to pay for our arising.

 

[Vulcan59]

Hi rjpb,

Welcome to the forum. :) We recommend all new members to post an introduction in the Newbies section telling us a bit about themselves, and how they found their way here. Have a read through that section to get an idea of how others have done it. Thanks.

 

[Martfotai]

Being-parktdolg-duty.

For those who care:

parkt is Armenian for duty
dolg is Russion for duty

Hence the meaning being-dutyduty-duty is suggested.

The text thus suggests that conscious labors and intentional suffering are a duty - necessary to pay for our arising.

This isn't exactly my understanding of the translation of "partkdolg." It's important to remember that 'duty' can also be a tax, and while it's a good approximate translation, it can be a little more clear than 'dutyduty-duty' (though I wouldn't put the pun past G!):

parkt - պարտք - is Armenian for debt, indebtedness, tax, duty, something owed.

dolg - հարկ - is also Armenian (though there may be a shared Russian etymology), and while also meaning tax or duty, can mean aid or assistance. It's pronunciation is more like 'olg' or 'hog,' so I suspect that the 'd' is actually the end of 'parktd' ... 'parktd-olg.'

Overall, 'being-parktdolg-duty' does etymologically denote something close 'obligatorily paying one's being-debt.' While the 5 Being-obligolnian-strivings taken as a whole would be a good working approach to 'being-parktdolg-duty' ("conscious labor and intentional suffering" aside), I believe the 4th striving touches the spirit of the etymology more closely:

"The striving from the beginning of their existence to pay for their arising and their individuality as quickly possible, in order afterwards to be free to lighten as much as possible the Sorrow of our Common Father."

 

[Martfotai]

With a little more digging (always digging, digging ...), the Russian word (долг, dolg) does indeed mean 'credit' or 'debt' (much like 'tax') but also means 'duty.'

 

[Inquorate]

I started to read this thread while "asleep" although I only realized in retrospect. Perhaps it was G's intention to "awaken" people on several levels; I "woke up" while reading the thread. And just like the comment here about reading quietly, as if aloud to another, and then with intellect engaged, perhaps he is trying to awaken all the centers.
Does it mean anything that we can work out what he was doing?

I realy must get around to reading this bok, and yet again find myself forlorn at only ever learning to speak english.

 

[Martfotai]

I started to read this thread while "asleep" although I only realized in retrospect. Perhaps it was G's intention to "awaken" people on several levels; I "woke up" while reading the thread. And just like the comment here about reading quietly, as if aloud to another, and then with intellect engaged, perhaps he is trying to awaken all the centers.
Does it mean anything that we can work out what he was doing?

I realy must get around to reading this bok, and yet again find myself forlorn at only ever learning to speak english.

I started to read this thread while "asleep" although I only realized in retrospect. Perhaps it was G's intention to "awaken" people on several levels; I "woke up" while reading the thread. And just like the comment here about reading quietly, as if aloud to another, and then with intellect engaged, perhaps he is trying to awaken all the centers.
Does it mean anything that we can work out what he was doing?

I realy must get around to reading this bok, and yet again find myself forlorn at only ever learning to speak english.

There is accidental self-remembering and intentional self-remembering. The first happens associatively, as the result of mechanical reactions to internal and external stimuli, and the second as a result of setting a definite aim and making efforts in that direction. For instance, I set the intention that I will "remember myself" at a certain specific time, or under a certain specific circumstance, and for a certain specific reason (but it is always a question, just what do we remember to remember when we remember to remember ourselves? ;) ). Instances that you describe (accidental self-remembering) are very important and necessary -- it's those moments that we can prepare our Work, knowing that we must again fall asleep. In those moments of awakening, what can be done to create the next intentional moment?

I think you are right, he is trying to awaken the centers in us, but he is also trying "to destroy, mercilessly, without any compromises whatsoever, in the mentation and feelings of the reader, the beliefs and views, by centuries rooted in him, about everything existing in the world." It is not so much a matter of ADDING more on top of what we have, but uncovering, dis-covering what is already within us.

Go! Read! Enjoy! It is a joyous affair, it needn't be heavy. Mr. Gurdjieff provides ample provisions along the path, but you must begin with a single step, then another. What language is your native tongue?