Black and white thinking and my old "gamer-self"

[Psalehesost]

I have a problem with black and white thinking in general, and also other issues - these all having something in common - with how I focus on or mentally approach things. The latter is hard to describe completely, but is expressed in things including wasting time, focusing on the wrong (non-productive) things or aspects of things, and more concretely (in terms of how it's been described), to the issue I've described here in The Swamp. (the one concerning 'perceptions' and related compulsions and obsessive thinking)

It seems to boil down at least in part to a mentality instilled by all the endless hours of gaming I've engaged in in prior years - all throughout childhood and my teens. A certain kind of black-and-white, anticipatory, and skewed approach to picturing or imagining the future or outcomes of choices (and valuation of those outcomes) and so in turn to making choices.

Issues of black and white thinking are also addressed and in part explained in the narcissism/narcissistic wounding books, but I think in my case - perhaps also in others' - there is more to it.

You have only to think of how choices and outcomes work in games to understand this, I think - such choices are usually quite black and white in that there is almost always a "right" one, a "best" choice. When it is not a plain matter of success vs failure, they all give different "rewards", of which some are almost always "better" - or in the very most "open" cases, certain ones are personally preferable. In short, I think I've been conditioned very deeply and gradually to expect that of life, always wondering what course of action will give the "best" rewards in relation to whichever goal I consider, worrying that I might miss it (perhaps go down a "less good" path - perhaps, horror of horrors, the "second best" instead of the "very best"), and so trying to figure this out in advance regarding each and every choice on every scale (I mean that literally; though this obsession has somewhat slackened with the gaining of insight lately).

This is how I "connected" things in noting the activity of certain "I"s at one time recently - and since, the pattern has seemed a better and better fit. I think, from observing what pops into my mind, noting automatic reactions - their flavor, the patterns they follow and now comparing it with what I remember from all that gaming past - that my adaptive unconscious has been very, very deeply conditioned in this particular way (of course, one way among others) - and it would be interesting to hear others' take on the same issue, those who've been gamers and have been comparing (or will give it a go) the patterns of automatic or spontaneous mental activity (and its 'flavor') with the 'gaming mindsets' they remember, seeing what they can see in common and whether something of it has rooted in them or not, and if so what influence it has in which situations in life.

I think now after rethinking the issue after learning about the adaptive unconscious that it has shaped my mind far more than I've been able to imagine.

 

[Menna]

A popular saying that I have picked up here on this forum is there is a Right(White) way, Wrong (black) way and the specific situation that determines which is which. I do the same thing. I try and predict an outcome and play it out in my head. This isn’t draining (at least I cant tell it is) almost entertaining for me but have to make sure it isn’t more then just thoughts. Situations are created and there are so many intricacies that it is so hard to play out something and think about the outcome in black and white because there are so many specific situations along the way...Just my take…If I am thinking about something with rigidity strictly black and or white I try to think what in me is making me think this way…I think life is more like Gray thinking a mix of black and white

 

[Bobo08]

You have only to think of how choices and outcomes work in games to understand this, I think - such choices are usually quite black and white in that there is almost always a "right" one, a "best" choice. When it is not a plain matter of success vs failure, they all give different "rewards", of which some are almost always "better" - or in the very most "open" cases, certain ones are personally preferable. In short, I think I've been conditioned very deeply and gradually to expect that of life, always wondering what course of action will give the "best" rewards in relation to whichever goal I consider, worrying that I might miss it (perhaps go down a "less good" path - perhaps, horror of horrors, the "second best" instead of the "very best"), and so trying to figure this out in advance regarding each and every choice on every scale (I mean that literally; though this obsession has somewhat slackened with the gaining of insight lately).

I think the conditioning of black and white thinking is much more extensive than gaming. The vast majority of movies, novels, and down to children stories, fairy tales are geared to black and white thinking. There are always good guys who can do no wrong and bad guys who are obviously bad.

Going even further, think of the explanations that adults give to children in response to their questions. If it is about choices, it's almost always about a GOOD choice vs some BAD choices with no gray in between. It can be said that from a very small age, most people are immersed in a black and white thinking environment with no alternative models. It's no wonder that it is the default mode of thinking for most people.

 

[SeekinTruth]

I agree with Bobo08. Black and white thinking has to be battled by everyone. Even those who have never had a gaming habit. There are innumerable things that condition this type of thinking, as Bobo08 said. In fact, it seems to me, the overwhelming majority of cultural influences do so.

 

[mcb]

I suspect that black & white thinking may be rooted in our minds' proclivity for simplifying complex problems to produce quick answers in survival situations. I can't point to anything specific from the reading I/we have been doing, but then I haven't been looking for that.

 

[SeekinTruth]

I suspect that black & white thinking may be rooted in our minds' proclivity for simplifying complex problems to produce quick answers in survival situations. I can't point to anything specific from the reading I/we have been doing, but then I haven't been looking for that.

Yes, you're probably right about the tendency to oversimplifying complex problems. This was touched upon in the Psychology and Cognitive Science threads. Changing a hard question with an easier one in our minds and answering that was one of the examples.

 

[RedFox]

I suspect that black & white thinking may be rooted in our minds' proclivity for simplifying complex problems to produce quick answers in survival situations. I can't point to anything specific from the reading I/we have been doing, but then I haven't been looking for that.

Yes, you're probably right about the tendency to oversimplifying complex problems. This was touched upon in the Psychology and Cognitive Science threads. Changing a hard question with an easier one in our minds and answering that was one of the examples.

This is my understanding of the condition (I tend to do the same thing with my thinking).
Psalehesost have you had a chance to read Thinking, Fast and Slow?

 

[Gertrudes]

I also agree with both Bobo08 and Megan.

Adding to that, I think that black and white thinking can also be related to trying to control one's environment. Speaking for myself, when growing up I tried as hard as I could to put my impressions and perceptions of reality in boxes, so to say. The more my environment got out of control, the more I tried to balance that out by trying to make some sense of the world with a forced organization of reality in my own head.
It is still occasionally a pattern, although more easily spotted, osit.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yes, Gertudes, I agree. I think we all do that to varying degrees throughout our life experiences. And then it becomes habitual thinking. It all relates back again to everything Gurdjieff talked about.

I've also been reading Dr. Jack Kruse's material. He also talks about these issues and keeps mentioning how we have to abandon all these "conventional wisdom dogmas" and start anew. He's really big with pointing out all the wrong dogmas that have become entrenched in so called science and the medical fields and he's on a mission to change all that.

I also catch myself falling into these patterns of thinking still, as I'm sure many of us do. Although I had started noticing and trying to question and counteract these patterns a long time ago, I've gotten MUCH better at doing so with all the effective tools we've gathered here. I'm much more on guard now against lazy, automatic thinking patterns. It's still a day to day struggle and it helps to relish challenges. Seeing everything as a challenge and an adventure goes a long way to improving our minds and performance in life. OSIT.

 

[Approaching Infinity]

You have only to think of how choices and outcomes work in games to understand this, I think - such choices are usually quite black and white in that there is almost always a "right" one, a "best" choice. When it is not a plain matter of success vs failure, they all give different "rewards", of which some are almost always "better" - or in the very most "open" cases, certain ones are personally preferable. In short, I think I've been conditioned very deeply and gradually to expect that of life, always wondering what course of action will give the "best" rewards in relation to whichever goal I consider, worrying that I might miss it (perhaps go down a "less good" path - perhaps, horror of horrors, the "second best" instead of the "very best"), and so trying to figure this out in advance regarding each and every choice on every scale (I mean that literally; though this obsession has somewhat slackened with the gaining of insight lately).

Can you give an actual example of how it plays out in your life? One thing that comes to mind is that perhaps it's possible to use this tendency to your advantage, with a slight 'redirect'? Kind of like how Gurdjieff said to become an altruist by first being a complete egoist (using everything around you for the sole purpose of self-development). But I think some concrete examples might help.

 

[luc]

Even though I have never been a big gamer (but had my share when I was a teen), I can relate to that pattern, like trying to calculate my way through far too complex problems under the assumption that I can and have to find the best solution. This for me generally leads to procrastination and an overall energy drain, but I must say with all the insights I got from here and changing my priorities in life accordingly (like trying not to anticipate too much and not obsessing with thoughts about "career", for example) this program seems not that strong anymore (though procrastination is still a big one for me).

One thought I had: If we think of game theory as the psychopathic approach to the world (as described in Wave 7), maybe it is our inner psychopath (aka the predator's mind or a specific program) that tries to make us approach the world the same chess-like way as the psychopath does? So that we calculate our way through life based on self-interest while always "loosing" to the psychopaths since we "lack" their ruthlessness? And maybe computer games (and media in general) "help" to nourish this "game theory" program...

Can you give an actual example of how it plays out in your life? One thing that comes to mind is that perhaps it's possible to use this tendency to your advantage, with a slight 'redirect'? Kind of like how Gurdjieff said to become an altruist by first being a complete egoist (using everything around you for the sole purpose of self-development). But I think some concrete examples might help.

Interesting thought - so would that mean to change the "goal" of the "game-theory mindset" from self-gratification to self-development? But wouldn't anticipation be still a problem?

Just a few thoughts, fwiw

 

[Approaching Infinity]

Can you give an actual example of how it plays out in your life? One thing that comes to mind is that perhaps it's possible to use this tendency to your advantage, with a slight 'redirect'? Kind of like how Gurdjieff said to become an altruist by first being a complete egoist (using everything around you for the sole purpose of self-development). But I think some concrete examples might help.

Interesting thought - so would that mean to change the "goal" of the "game-theory mindset" from self-gratification to self-development? But wouldn't anticipation be still a problem?

Anticipation might still be a problem, but the point is that it's impossible to change everything all at once. Take diet for example. Laura has posted some examples from her own experience. E.g., if you switch your diet and find yourself having cravings for bad foods, you make sure to have some healthy snack foods available to get you through the transition (i.e. cold cuts and butter). Sure, the cravings are still a problem, but you 'redirect' them towards a more healthy outcome. So if you have a problem with expecting a payoff, maybe it's possible to reframe the way you see it and approach it. For example, if I have read about health benefits of a fatty diet, I know the benefits that I'll get from taking that path. With the aim in mind, I will take whatever suffering comes with the anticipation of a future 'reward'. Even if the reward isn't as great as I had anticipated, I have used it to establish a healthier habit.

 

[mcb]

I can see where many gaming scenarios would require high speed survival mode thinking. I am not a gaming fan, but I have found that doing a little bit of it now and then has helped me with some of my motor coordination issues (I am a terrible gamer), as a simulation tool. One thing I recall is that when I finished with a game session, something of my mental state would "bleed through" into whatever I did next. It didn't last long, though.

I think the bleed through is just part of how things work. My father was a pilot and flight instructor and he tried (unsuccessfully) to teach me to fly small planes when I was in my late teens. After a lesson, though, I would get out of the plane and into my car, and head for the freeway. As I drove, my mind was still flying, especially on ramps and overpasses. No simulation there. Fortunately, I was self-aware enough even then to see the potential danger or I might not be writing about it now.

Does gaming lead to black and white thinking, or do black and white thinkers tend to like gaming?

 

[whitecoast]

Thank you for starting this thread, Psalehost. lots of good information is here. I'm a gamer myself who also tends to struggle with the way video game design affects real life perceptions of the world, with black-and-white thinking being one of those ways.

One reason I think that narrow thinking pattern is so common is because of the reptilian brain. I play lots of competitive online games, with clearly defined goals and such. Since you struggle against someone else, you develop instinctive and automatic reflexes to control your character in the game. This tends to make me identify with the character and get frustrated or angry when losing or dealing with immature allies or opponents.

This in a way is highly ridiculous because your adrenal rush is meant for ACTUAL survival threats, not threats to imaginary avatars. So this highly aversive type of thinking applies to non-survival-threatening situations, and in ways tends to cloud out the third option, so to speak. Somehow I get the impression this may also lead to imaginary projection of one's survival onto other things, like political institutions, religions, et cetera.

Another way gaming has affected my psyche is by encouraging cognitive closure. Cognitive closure basically means that your mind had settled a loose end or issue, and can continue with other things. In well-designed games, everything is a certain way for a reason. If you see a locked door in a dungeon, dollars to donuts there is a key lying around somewhere that will open it, or vice versa. People with a high need for cognitive closure (which send to be encouraged by games to solve their puzzles) often are less creative than those who have less need for cognitive closure, because that everything must be settled and processed, and never left open-ended, tends to prematurely solve or pretend to solve situations. Life ain't so simple, and the universe is more open than that

But like Seekintruth pointed out, games are not the only source of these cognitive errors or framers...

 

[luc]

With the aim in mind, I will take whatever suffering comes with the anticipation of a future 'reward'. Even if the reward isn't as great as I had anticipated, I have used it to establish a healthier habit.

Thank you for the clarification. Maybe I was thinking too complicated here. I guess if one doesn't obsess with anticipation and if it is for the right purpose, it doesn't really hurt...