Black Hawk military helicopter collides into American Airlines flight landing at Reagan Airport in Washington, DC

[luc]

Apparently the woman pilot had logged 500 hours. Some of the replies by pilots suggest that this is not nearly enough for such assignments, and others say even the 500 hours don't make sense based on what we know about her career and that it might have been even less.

If true (?), was she a patsy? Or really diversity gone wrong? After all, the DEI types have proven to be absolutely desperate putting women in typical male jobs and then bragging about it...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885844901150994931

 

[SOTTREADER]

The whole DEI thing rubs me up the wrong way as I work with very capable, highly educated, effective, experienced, strong, emotionally intelligent women - just saying, not to be messed with (look at this forum and some of the females here too, titans). I think the discussions around it need to be more nuanced as it leads the average Joe to stereotype and arrive at conclusions that frankly will land them in trouble within a professional or academic setting. At least in the UK, women are outcompeting men in quite a few fields, including school performance so best to put respect on the female gender lest you be left behind seeing nothing but dust. In all seriousness, the best way to judge someone's competence or aptitude to improve themselves is by taking a step back and observing them in action over a period of time. You'll come to see the best ppl at their fields may not appear that way from external appearances, the best marines/special forces types may not look like they spend 6 hrs in the gym everyday or the cleverest may not appear like your stereotypical type "geek", or the best sales person may not be your stereotypical extrovert etc. If you operate in an environment where landing at incorrect judgements cost you a lot, it's in your interest to not jump to conclusions without some careful contemplative observation beforehand. Just saying as I'm seeing "DEI" thrown around like the latest cool buzzword explaining everything wrong in the world all around social media.

In the case of this helicopter/plane crash, to me it looks like a rather unfortunate accident. The C's would probably say something like a bleed through happened that confused the pilot's perception of space, distance and time. If it's a message to Trump, whoever is sending the message doesn't realise Trump doesn't care about their silly messages and threats.

 

[Joe]

I put a thread together here.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1886014654700229019

 

[Niall]

Apparently the woman pilot had logged 500 hours. Some of the replies by pilots suggest that this is not nearly enough for such assignments, and others say even the 500 hours don't make sense based on what we know about her career and that it might have been even less.

If true (?), was she a patsy? Or really diversity gone wrong? After all, the DEI types have proven to be absolutely desperate putting women in typical male jobs and then bragging about it...

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885844901150994931

He says immediately below that post that his math was wrong. He admits "500 hours in 5 years is doable."

The whole DEI thing rubs me up the wrong way as I work with very capable, highly educated, effective, experienced, strong, emotionally intelligent women - just saying, not to be messed with (look at this forum and some of the females here too, titans). I think the discussions around it need to be more nuanced as it leads the average Joe to stereotype and arrive at conclusions that frankly will land them in trouble within a professional or academic setting. At least in the UK, women are outcompeting men in quite a few fields, including school performance so best to put respect on the female gender lest you be left behind seeing nothing but dust. In all seriousness, the best way to judge someone's competence or aptitude to improve themselves is by taking a step back and observing them in action over a period of time. You'll come to see the best ppl at their fields may not appear that way from external appearances, the best marines/special forces types may not look like they spend 6 hrs in the gym everyday or the cleverest may not appear like your stereotypical type "geek", or the best sales person may not be your stereotypical extrovert etc. If you operate in an environment where landing at incorrect judgements cost you a lot, it's in your interest to not jump to conclusions without some careful contemplative observation beforehand. Just saying as I'm seeing "DEI" thrown around like the latest cool buzzword explaining everything wrong in the world all around social media.

In the case of this helicopter/plane crash, to me it looks like a rather unfortunate accident. The C's would probably say something like a bleed through happened that confused the pilot's perception of space, distance and time. If it's a message to Trump, whoever is sending the message doesn't realise Trump doesn't care about their silly messages and threats.

If the chopper was deliberately remote-controlled off course, out of its regular corridor/altitude, then the DEI angle becomes an insidious diversion.

In that scenario, I agree that Trump wouldn't care about such 'messages'. Regular DC bureaucrats and politicians cooperating with Trump's people these next 4 years might though.

 

[Yupo]

The whole DEI thing rubs me up the wrong way as I work with very capable, highly educated, effective, experienced, strong, emotionally intelligent women - just saying, not to be messed with (look at this forum and some of the females here too, titans). I think the discussions around it need to be more nuanced as it leads the average Joe to stereotype and arrive at conclusions that frankly will land them in trouble within a professional or academic setting. At least in the UK, women are outcompeting men in quite a few fields, including school performance so best to put respect on the female gender lest you be left behind seeing nothing but dust. In all seriousness, the best way to judge someone's competence or aptitude to improve themselves is by taking a step back and observing them in action over a period of time. You'll come to see the best ppl at their fields may not appear that way from external appearances, the best marines/special forces types may not look like they spend 6 hrs in the gym everyday or the cleverest may not appear like your stereotypical type "geek", or the best sales person may not be your stereotypical extrovert etc. If you operate in an environment where landing at incorrect judgements cost you a lot, it's in your interest to not jump to conclusions without some careful contemplative observation beforehand. Just saying as I'm seeing "DEI" thrown around like the latest cool buzzword explaining everything wrong in the world all around social media.

In the case of this helicopter/plane crash, to me it looks like a rather unfortunate accident. The C's would probably say something like a bleed through happened that confused the pilot's perception of space, distance and time. If it's a message to Trump, whoever is sending the message doesn't realise Trump doesn't care about their silly messages and threats.

Completely agree!
My dentist was a Blackhawk pilot. Before I knew that about her, I'd have described her as strong, brave, knowledgeable, meticulous and patient. Helicopter vibrations with weight of a tactical helmet is extremely hard on neck and teeth. That's why she chose to learn dentistry after Army life. Best dentist I've ever had.

 

[Joe]

If the chopper was deliberately remote-controlled off course, out of its regular corridor/altitude, then the DEI angle becomes an insidious diversion.

I don't think it's a diversion. Trump and co. are well known for their focus on "diversity" training, and for good reason it seems. So it's not surprising that they would give this as a possible (and they did say possible) explanation for why the 'crash' happened.

It has been reported that the ATC was "doing the job of two people" at the time and that staffing levels were "not normal".

The FAA has been embroiled in a law suit since 2015 over its "diversity hire" policies.

The crux of the lawsuit is that the FAA, under the Obama administration, dropped a skill-based system for hiring controllers and replaced it with a “biographical assessment” in an alleged bid to boost the number of minority job applicants.

FAA embroiled in lawsuit alleging it turned away 1,000 applicants based on race — that contributed to staffing woes

Complaints about the FAA’s hiring policies resurfaced after the American Airlines passenger plane and a Black Hawk helicopter crashed in Washington, DC.

nypost.com

 

[luc]

The whole DEI thing rubs me up the wrong way as I work with very capable, highly educated, effective, experienced, strong, emotionally intelligent women - just saying, not to be messed with (look at this forum and some of the females here too, titans). I think the discussions around it need to be more nuanced as it leads the average Joe to stereotype and arrive at conclusions that frankly will land them in trouble within a professional or academic setting. At least in the UK, women are outcompeting men in quite a few fields, including school performance so best to put respect on the female gender lest you be left behind seeing nothing but dust. In all seriousness, the best way to judge someone's competence or aptitude to improve themselves is by taking a step back and observing them in action over a period of time. You'll come to see the best ppl at their fields may not appear that way from external appearances, the best marines/special forces types may not look like they spend 6 hrs in the gym everyday or the cleverest may not appear like your stereotypical type "geek", or the best sales person may not be your stereotypical extrovert etc. If you operate in an environment where landing at incorrect judgements cost you a lot, it's in your interest to not jump to conclusions without some careful contemplative observation beforehand. Just saying as I'm seeing "DEI" thrown around like the latest cool buzzword explaining everything wrong in the world all around social media.

In the case of this helicopter/plane crash, to me it looks like a rather unfortunate accident. The C's would probably say something like a bleed through happened that confused the pilot's perception of space, distance and time. If it's a message to Trump, whoever is sending the message doesn't realise Trump doesn't care about their silly messages and threats.

Nah, people are rightly fed up with DEI. All it does is it lowers standards which can be tragic in critical professions, pretends reality is different than it actually is, and throws those women who are actually badass in male environments under the bus because everyone (rightly, at this point) asks themselves whether she's a diversity hire. This is entirely the DEI-complex's fault. The push-back is well-deserved, it's reality reasserting itself.

 

[SOTTREADER]

Nah, people are rightly fed up with DEI. All it does is it lowers standards which can be tragic in critical professions, pretends reality is different than it actually is, and throws those women who are actually badass in male environments under the bus because everyone (rightly, at this point) asks themselves whether she's a diversity hire. This is entirely the DEI-complex's fault. The push-back is well-deserved, it's reality reasserting itself.

Swings and roundabouts is how I see it. Our job is to survive in amongst the prevailing chaos. Chaos there will always be.

The only point I was making is that in one's own personal life, ignoring the wider social universe and prevailing politics, you are best served by not jumping to conclusions about other people, not until you see what they are truly made out of. That was my point at least from the lessons I have personally been through in this life.

With regards the wider environment, those energies have a life of their own and I do my best to stay out the way of the prevailing general law and whatever is the "in" thing at any one point in time.

 

[Beau]

The only point I was making is that in one's own personal life, ignoring the wider social universe and prevailing politics, you are best served by not jumping to conclusions about other people, not until you see what they are truly made out of. That was my point at least from the lessons I have personally been through in this life.

The conclusions people come to are partly taken from the larger environment though. They are tied together.

 

[SOTTREADER]

The conclusions people come to are partly taken from the larger environment though. They are tied together.

What I have found is that this is true to the extent other people (and yourself as an individual) are influenced by the prevailing social environment. Sometimes, if you observe closely, you'll notice that in certain situations, a person may not be interacting with you but with their idea of who you are based on what the prevailing environment says you are. An obvious example, the environment says you should be jabbed to be a good person, someone knows you aren't jabbed and automatically interacts with you like you are the worst person who ever existed. Go figure .

The above doesn't really matter unless you are in a situation where reading the other person wrong can be costly or deadly. For example thinking someone a foe when in fact they are a friend, or vice versa, thinking someone weak when in fact they are strong or vice versa etc. There are situations when reading people wrongly will cost you dearly, whether you ever come to know it or not! This is why whilst I can't help but have a "blink' impression about someone, I always need to remind myself that this is not enough to truly know who the person is or their capabilities.

Anyways, if we are living exclusively in the world of blink impressions, depending on the flavour of the month, you might be a good person or a bad person based on nothing to do with your character or skillset. As long as no one is out here looking to literally end your life, I just choose to stay out there way and focus on what I need to do. Again, this is a bit of a personal viewpoint, life is literally too short to get carried away by all this drama going on above our heads - there's always drama going on above our heads, like always! It's like the endless images on Plato's cave - look at them long enough and you'll fall into a trance and take them to be the whole of existence.

 

[XPan]

It has been reported that the ATC was "doing the job of two people" at the time and that staffing levels were "not normal".

Aviation Herald reports following, including that 5 controllers were active at the time of the crash:

The Aviation Herald

Aviation Herald - News, Incidents and Accidents in Aviation

avherald.com

Latest entry they added at AH:

On Feb 1st 2025 the NTSB reported in their 3rd press conference, the CRJ's FDR and CVR were successfully downloaded, the FDR working group is currently analysing the FDR data. The CVR contained 124 minutes of good audio. The recordings have already been synchronised.

The crew performed an approach briefing and was cleared for the runway 01 approach, the crew subsequently agreed to runway 33 upon question by the controller. The CRJ crew received a Traffic Advisory. About one second prior to impact the CRJ increased their pitch. A transcript of the ATC communication on all frequencies will hopefully be available tomorrow (Feb 2nd).

It is not yet known whether the helicopter crew was using their night goggles.

The helicopter black box also suffered water intrusion, however, the NTSB is confident to be able to download the whole recordings. In the occurrence the day before claimed to be a near collision by media the separation never reduced to below 1000 feet vertical.

At the time of the crash 5 controllers were active, the tower controller was assisted by an assistance controller, an operations supervisor, an operational supervisor in training and a ground controller.

Interviews are being conducted.

Currently there is no read out of the helicopter's altitude yet.

At the time of impact the CRJ was at 325+/-25 feet MSL, the radar screen of tower showed 200 feet MSL (to be verified and assessed). At the data screen of the controller the altitude of the helicopter at the time of impact showed 200 feet, these data are still being assessed. The NTSB is working to exactly determine the altitude at which the collision occurred.

The helicopter was within the assigned route with ceiling of 200 feet MSL. The helicopter was showing 200 feet at the radar screen of tower, the reading however has less fidelity than the FDR data of the CRJ showing the CRJ at 325+/-25 feet MSL (end of press conference)

 

[Joe]

If it's a message to Trump, whoever is sending the message doesn't realise Trump doesn't care about their silly messages and threats.

IF it's a message, then I don't think Trump is the intended recipient. Rather it's the 'movers and shakers' in Congress and the Senate and the associated govt. departments. The ones who are aware of a 'deep state'. They're being reminded not to get carried away with the Trump phenomena, that 'they' still call the shots (sometimes literally) where it matters. And to remember who their real boss is.

 

[Ina]

What I have found is that this is true to the extent other people (and yourself as an individual) are influenced by the prevailing social environment. Sometimes, if you observe closely, you'll notice that in certain situations, a person may not be interacting with you but with their idea of who you are based on what the prevailing environment says you are. An obvious example, the environment says you should be jabbed to be a good person, someone knows you aren't jabbed and automatically interacts with you like you are the worst person who ever existed. Go figure .

The above doesn't really matter unless you are in a situation where reading the other person wrong can be costly or deadly. For example thinking someone a foe when in fact they are a friend, or vice versa, thinking someone weak when in fact they are strong or vice versa etc. There are situations when reading people wrongly will cost you dearly, whether you ever come to know it or not! This is why whilst I can't help but have a "blink' impression about someone, I always need to remind myself that this is not enough to truly know who the person is or their capabilities.

Anyways, if we are living exclusively in the world of blink impressions, depending on the flavour of the month, you might be a good person or a bad person based on nothing to do with your character or skillset. As long as no one is out here looking to literally end your life, I just choose to stay out there way and focus on what I need to do. Again, this is a bit of a personal viewpoint, life is literally too short to get carried away by all this drama going on above our heads - there's always drama going on above our heads, like always! It's like the endless images on Plato's cave - look at them long enough and you'll fall into a trance and take them to be the whole of existence.

All clear and agreed to, however every interaction / engagement is based on rules. Otherwise you go to a supermarket you utter an inoffensive banality, you get punched in the face and that is OK because of all reasons observed above?

Hmmm.... Thinking along DEI or AA.... anyone not included in the category needs to observe an extra rule the rule of sensitivity which is applied to each aspect of interaction, in a 360 degree manner. What happens to the rules? The rules in application lose at least 50 %in efficiency due to communication dysfunctions. What percentage remains is lost in make believe, in the sense that people still function of what should be but is not and behave accordingly. Welcome to the mental hospital in other words.

I worked with people of all ages and religions and nationalities and I had to cut 'airs' and 'high noses' and unlock quite aggressive attitudes in order to complete the teamwork successfully. From my experience sensitivity has a big role to play at vulnerable ages however not always and in blanket manner with perfectly psychologically healthy and able adults as it is requested by current social norms.

Coming back to air collision incident, it would be interesting to know if any cognitive impact was created in communication due to sensitivity training for pilots and ATC alike.

 

[Beau]

The only point I was making is that in one's own personal life, ignoring the wider social universe and prevailing politics, you are best served by not jumping to conclusions about other people, not until you see what they are truly made out of. That was my point at least from the lessons I have personally been through in this life.

The reality is that piloting any aircraft requires certain advanced skills. Those skills include excellent hand-eye coordination, increased depth perception and distance vision, ability to function under intense stress, and motion detection. Strictly biologically speaking, men are going to be better in all those skills than women. This isn't about jumping to false conclusions. It's about admitting that some people are best suited for certain jobs while others are not, and those best suited should be the ones doing it for the safety of all involved. This is the point luc was making, I believe, in decrying DEI in the context of the heli crash.

 

[Ina]

The reality is that piloting any aircraft requires certain advanced skills. Those skills include excellent hand-eye coordination, increased depth perception and distance vision, ability to function under intense stress, and motion detection. Strictly biologically speaking, men are going to be better in all those skills than women. This isn't about jumping to false conclusions. It's about admitting that some people are best suited for certain jobs while others are not, and those best suited should be the ones doing it for the safety of all involved. This is the point luc was making, I believe, in decrying DEI in the context of the heli crash.

Unrelated to the incident but related to the EO regarding DEI in the military a female marine veteran was saying that 'Just because we can, it does not mean that we should'. Thinking back to my short but intense 'combat geologist' episode in Afghanistan, she was right. Darn when you have to do a job only because there are no men that can and want to do it.