BLADE RUNNER 2049 (2017)

Maat

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Ellipse said:
Maat said:
You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go. It is the basic con­dition of life to be required to violate your own identity. At some time, every creature which lives must do so. It is the ultimate shadow; the defeat of creation. This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life everywhere in the universe.

Which is a mind programming message from the STS side. An STO oriented person will find herself in a such position only if she forgot herself and succumb to the siren song of the STS polarity and use the same tactics. Mind programming especially if you are in the learning phase and search who you want to serve.

Dick was very gnostic. For him, this earthly world was evil in itself and not the "real reality". He called it "the black iron prison". So yes, an STS world for sure.

And, that the road to hell is paved with good intentions is a big lesson, I think.
 

gdpetti

Jedi Council Member
Shouldn't this be in the movies section?
That said, a movie this long doesn't bode well for the box office, as it does limit the number of showings per day... so the slight disappointment so far is to be expected, as others have said, the original wasn't that big of a success either...
The replicant/clone/DNA manipulation storyline of what is human and how the replicants get treated from the original thru the shorts to this new one seems to demonstrate the same problem the Roma people have had here since their creation in Atlantis long ago.... this same question is used in Ghost in the Shell... as AI coming alive keeps making the media rounds lately, and many science projects that keep asking this same question of what is human, which has them pushing the wall up against the realm of consciousness which they seem to be afraid to question, mention, or study, at least in public.

The review I saw from Alachia was interesting: https://www.youtube.com/user/queenalachia/videos , especially the spoilers video on it, which make the same complaints as many had of the original... not answering questions... hard to do if they don't have them, but the visuals are said to be cool... doubt I can handle a whole film with that actor as the lead though... not interesting IMO... but Alachia really liked this remake anyway, but then she likes this type, which might be a strong factor in her opinion. Haven't seen other reviews yet. I enjoyed the original, even the shorts, which could've been longer, but if this very long film spends too much time on scenery it'll bore me to death... :zzz: or at least to sleep... hard to find any films I feel worth the trouble of going to the cinemas these days... not around the corner here... now if it was Ron Howard's live action take on Tiger and Bunny, that'd be a different story! ;)
 

Deckard

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
The Mechanic said:
I never really got the first one so I don't think I'll be watching the remake. Enjoy though. :)
This is not a remake, its a sequel judging from the trailer and done very well.
You should watch the original - IMO its the best SF movie ever.
 

Fluffy

Jedi Master
The Mechanic said:
I never really got the first one so I don't think I'll be watching the remake. Enjoy though. :)

I have not seen the first, nor do I think it's totally necessary if you want to watch the second one.

I found it hard to follow at times and jumpy, like the producers were trying to keep people's attention with some short, somewhat confusing scenes. At the end I had no idea what happened and needed my 17 year old daughter to explain it to me. I don't watch much TV or movies but I've noticed that from the ones I have seen of current movies that they have this way of adding useless and abstract scenes that lead the watcher astray.

I spent a lot of this movie going 'what the...???' Some disturbing scenes, like very casual sex in public .. I didn't take well to that, but I guess they're depicting a sign of the time.

I didn't get bored, I left the theatre a little uneasy, I don't know if it's for everyone. I suppose, watch it and find out for yourself.
 

Yupo

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I found the story interesting for the time references to a great grid collapse, before and after. Talk of how much information was lost. Only the paper records survived. Well, most of them survived. Theme of implanted memories also interesting.
 

Goemon_

Jedi Master
I must have watch 4 films in theaters in the last 10 years including this one. I am glad I have seen this one in a theater. For one thing, it was a litle theater room and the writting (the indications on location) were difficult to read.
The long duration was not boring.
This is a good plot IMO, without being very alaborate.
It as not induce much emotion has is the case with a lot of Hollywood production. The ending made me cry however.

I can't see much in this film that would relate to any of what is discuss on this forum. Ok, there is the idea that "machines" could develope a soul, but as far as I understand the concept in the film, that will come when they can give birth. That is far away from the concept given by the C's. I don't see anything else.
 

Ellipse

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Goemon_ said:
I must have watch 4 films in theaters in the last 10 years including this one. I am glad I have seen this one in a theater. For one thing, it was a litle theater room and the writting (the indications on location) were difficult to read.
The long duration was not boring.
This is a good plot IMO, without being very alaborate.
It as not induce much emotion has is the case with a lot of Hollywood production. The ending made me cry however.

I can't see much in this film that would relate to any of what is discuss on this forum. Ok, there is the idea that "machines" could develope a soul, but as far as I understand the concept in the film, that will come when they can give birth. That is far away from the concept given by the C's. I don't see anything else.

There's the central point of discernment about who is what and robot among us. There's the blackout reference too. But I agree that's there's no much. Not as Interstellar for example.
 

floetus

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
For me it's a very sad and dystopian story about the loss of nature, that has been replaced by artificial replacements so to speak, substitutes. It's about the loss of freedom and identity. Humans are no longer born by nature, but constructed and designed by technocrats. Memories are no longer lived but implanted. Life is scripted. Nobody is in control anymore but under control. There is no telling who is real and who is not. The interiors where people live look like museums, old furniture with the latest technology hidden inside, an old photograph of a tree long forgotten, you hear a tune from the sixties, you find an old toy made of real wood, that is priceless on the black market. It's the final stage of enslavement.

It's a mirror of our world, a metaphor of how things are today. For me it was very touching to see the protagonist developing an identity and starting to wake up, discovering his humanity, forming real relationships, looking for his soul, his own memories, his own life, starting to ask questions, looking for something that has not been designed by some megalomaniacal technocrat, something that is not artificial, hoping to find clues to his origin, hoping he might have been born after all, hoping to find a way out of this prison. It's so sad. But there is also hope. In a way nature still survives in some of the replicants. Some of them might even be real human beings.

I find it interesting that the old generation of replicants are the only ones who resist the controll system while the new generation is perfectly obedient. This reminds me very strongly of our day and age. This movie is not so far in the future than people may think.
 

Ellipse

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
forget-me-not said:
For me it's a very sad and dystopian story about the loss of nature, that has been replaced by artificial replacements so to speak, substitutes. It's about the loss of freedom and identity. Humans are no longer born by nature, but constructed and designed by technocrats. Memories are no longer lived but implanted. Life is scripted. Nobody is in control anymore but under control. There is no telling who is real and who is not. The interiors where people live look like museums, old furniture with the latest technology hidden inside, an old photograph of a tree long forgotten, you hear a tune from the sixties, you find an old toy made of real wood, that is priceless on the black market. It's the final stage of enslavement.

It's a mirror of our world, a metaphor of how things are today. For me it was very touching to see the protagonist developing an identity and starting to wake up, discovering his humanity, forming real relationships, looking for his soul, his own memories, his own life, starting to ask questions, looking for something that has not been designed by some megalomaniacal technocrat, something that is not artificial, hoping to find clues to his origin, hoping he might have been born after all, hoping to find a way out of this prison. It's so sad. But there is also hope. In a way nature still survives in some of the replicants. Some of them might even be real human beings.

I find it interesting that the old generation of replicants are the only ones who resist the controll system while the new generation is perfectly obedient. This reminds me very strongly of our day and age. This movie is not so far in the future than people may think.

Yeah, this is the situation we are currently experiencing, some of us trying to pierce the veil. The allegory of the movie is that, in our current state, we ARE the replicants.
 

floetus

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Yeah, in the eyes of the director we ARE the replicants it seems. It may lack the deeper philosophy that movies like Interstellar hint at but it somehow fits the level of decay humanity has come down to, providing a simple idea, that could lead to deeper considerations. This world of technological marvels only tries to distract you from the void but fails. It's this emptiness the protagonist suffers from and tries to fill, by asking profound questions and trying to find, what went lost. It's the begin of a promissing journey. For me that's the message the movie conveys well imho.

In that sense being able to reproduce themselves is a symbol for self-determination and freedom rather than a sign of having a soul. In the movie this question is not really answered, isn't it?
 

Ellipse

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
forget-me-not said:
Yeah, in the eyes of the director we ARE the replicants it seems. It may lack the deeper philosophy that movies like Interstellar hint at but it somehow fits the level of decay humanity has come down to, providing a simple idea, that could lead to deeper considerations. This world of technological marvels only tries to distract you from the void but fails. It's this emptiness the protagonist suffers from and tries to fill, by asking profound questions and trying to find, what went lost. It's the begin of a promissing journey. For me that's the message the movie conveys well imho.

In that sense being able to reproduce themselves is a symbol for self-determination and freedom rather than a sign of having a soul. In the movie this question is not really answered, isn't it?

Yeah, but it can be view as DNA changes in the body due to conscientiousness attraction.
 

floetus

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I find your interpretation interesting, Ellipse. In the movie the fertility of replicants is like a miracle, an unforeseen side effect, as if nature took back the reins of creation. Maybe it's due to the poetic quality of the movie, that leaves much room for interpretation.
 

T.C.

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
forget-me-not said:
I find your interpretation interesting, Ellipse. In the movie the fertility of replicants is like a miracle, an unforeseen side effect, as if nature took back the reins of creation. Maybe it's due to the poetic quality of the movie, that leaves much room for interpretation.

The way I had it, Tyrell masterminded the replicants' ability to reproduce and took the secret of it to his grave.
 
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