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But there are many people I know and work with that are showing very serious symptoms, and there isn't much I can do about it other than plant a few seeds of information here and there.



I tried to talk to one of my sisters who has already had a bout with breast cancer about changing her diet. The "newest diet" she is on is about 90% carbs run through a blender with some protein powder added.

She pretty much laughed at me about the whole idea of high fat/low carbs, saying that since I still believed that smoking is good.. there wasn`t much in the advice I would give that she wanted to hear.

Earlier, I had loaned her my Detox or Die book, but she returned it sometime later saying she never really had the chance to read it.
 
I'm sorry to hear that, Meager1 - I know the feeling and it's really frustrating and sad. It sounds like you've done all you can do.
 
One of the books I read -- perhaps it was The End of Overeating by David Kessler -- highlighted the destruction of cultural dietary traditions in a relatively short span of time. These traditions are how we knew what to eat or not eat, and they are largely gone.

I was thinking about this today, especially in light of PBPM's comment about the role of advertisers in keeping information from the public.

Primal Body said:
Today, there are billions upon billions of dollars—from government agencies, medical-establishment interests, the pharmaceutical industry, organizations such as the American Heart Association, and, let’s not forget, the ever-popular food industry—all invested in the perpetuation of the antisaturated fat and anticholesterol agenda. This sordid history is well documented, though poorly publicized, as the media are beholden to their corporate advertisers.

I have thought about it before, but now it seems clear that the media have been used directly to destroy the traditions, not just to impede the flow of information. It all seems well designed to do what it is doing. I grew up in the 1950's, when a lot of the destruction was first taking place. I had my parents' world of processed convenience foods to compare with my grandparents' world of more traditional diet, and two of my grandparents lived into their 90's while my parents died in their 50's, one of cancer and the other of heart disease, in 1977 and 1981.

This campaign has a powerful, hypnotic hold over people, and it is undoubtedly only part of the total influence. People in general are not much going to want to change the way they eat, if it differs from what is being "broadcast," though they will change to another unhealthy pattern quite readily, as long as it is part of the broadcasts.
 
Meager1 said:
But there are many people I know and work with that are showing very serious symptoms, and there isn't much I can do about it other than plant a few seeds of information here and there.



I tried to talk to one of my sisters who has already had a bout with breast cancer about changing her diet. The "newest diet" she is on is about 90% carbs run through a blender with some protein powder added.

She pretty much laughed at me about the whole idea of high fat/low carbs, saying that since I still believed that smoking is good.. there wasn`t much in the advice I would give that she wanted to hear.

Earlier, I had loaned her my Detox or Die book, but she returned it sometime later saying she never really had the chance to read it.
I so understand how that feels. My whole family, immediate and extended, acts the same way as do all my few friends. The health issues they are all facing could so easily be helped if they were open minded and not so stuck in their lazy way of thinking. Most of the time they drive me nuts with their woes and then totaly disregard my shared experience with 'our' diet. :rolleyes:

No, we can't change the way they think but it is certainly painful and sad to watch, EVERY DAY. With my first grandchild due in afew weeks, I worry about him too. :cry:I've shared alot of info with them but that's all I can do.
 
I've been holding back on commenting on these paleo diet threads because Life Without Bread, The Vegetarian Myth, and Primal Mind Primal Body are my next three books and I want to assimilate the entirety of the threads first. There is one small question that would help me organize, though.

I was planning on reading Primal Mind first due to the info presented here, but I am going to give one of the other ones to my girlfriend so we can work through the material together. She has had colon problems since she was young, and recently had a flare up (it has been almost 2 years since she has had any major problems, thanks to diet changes we were working through together) that has us scrambling for the most useful info pertaining to that within the paleo diet framework.

So, after seeing this I figured PMPB is not the one for her to start on:

Laura said:
She has, apparently, missed the boat entirely on the topic of lectins and dangerous plant antinutrients, not to mention the fact that plants today aren't what they used to be. And, the most important thing of all that she is missing is the gross irritation that indigestible plant matter effects on the colon, not to mention the fact that plants ferment in the intestines and a lot of toxins are REABSORBED by this slowing down and bulking up in the colon!

Do either of the other two books mentioned give this a good overview regarding colon issues, or should we seek elsewhere first? Obviously, all the material will get read but it would be nice to get her colon calmed back down again (which it mostly has) because it makes her feel so sluggish and foggy. We're hitting the vitamin C hard, are dairy/soy free, and we've passed the gluten issue for the most part (although, the quote from PMPB was a big wake up call as I often let slide the label of "gluten free, but produced in a facility which also processes wheat." No more!), but we've gotta sort out our lectins and plant anti-nutrients better. And she is having trouble with the coffee enema idea, but I keep gently prodding her that we need to bite the bullet on that one!

I will keep searching through the Life Without Bread thread, but any thoughts would be appreciated.
 
SethianSeth said:
Do either of the other two books mentioned give this a good overview regarding colon issues, or should we seek elsewhere first? Obviously, all the material will get read but it would be nice to get her colon calmed back down again (which it mostly has) because it makes her feel so sluggish and foggy. We're hitting the vitamin C hard, are dairy/soy free, and we've passed the gluten issue for the most part (although, the quote from PMPB was a big wake up call as I often let slide the label of "gluten free, but produced in a facility which also processes wheat." No more!), but we've gotta sort out our lectins and plant anti-nutrients better. And she is having trouble with the coffee enema idea, but I keep gently prodding her that we need to bite the bullet on that one!

I will keep searching through the Life Without Bread thread, but any thoughts would be appreciated.

I think Fiber Menace is THE book on fiber and GI issues. It isn't perfect, and his zero-fiber recovery diet was a bit too much for me, but it will teach you more about colons that you ever wanted to know. You will still have to combine that information with information from other books.
 
Megan said:
I think Fiber Menace is THE book on fiber and GI issues. It isn't perfect, and his zero-fiber recovery diet was a bit too much for me, but it will teach you more about colons that you ever wanted to know. You will still have to combine that information with information from other books.

Thanks Megan! I'll add that to the mix. Gonna be a health book month for sure. And I totally understand the patchwork nature of getting the whole picture regarding these issues. I'm so ready and willing to work as long as I know the general outline, the things to look for. The more practice I get, the more I enjoy the process of sussing out the larger scheme - every bit helps. I think our aim can stay strong as long as we keep remembering that this piecemeal truth puzzle game is the case in every sector of our reality. Anart just said it in such a beautiful way:

anart said:
It is, in fact, directly reflective of the human condition - fragmented soul units and fragmented knowledge. It almost makes sense that no one person would have the whole banana, since no one person is truly whole - but a network, on the other hand, can get quite close.

Before I had this forum, it was a crapshoot (as everyone here has experienced) and the roller coaster ride never felt to pay off completely. I'd probably have coasted on veganism quite a ways longer thinking I was doing myself good if I hadn't learned the saturated fat lesson.

Thanks again for the feedback!
 
Laura said:
I'm cross-posting this from the Life Without Bread thread:

Chapter 31 of PBPM has a scary story that should give us all pause:

Years ago, in the 1930s, a scientist and doctor by the name of Francis Pottenger initiated a series of now famous feeding experiments with cats that spanned more than ten years and several feline generations. His findings transformed many people's view of the role that diet plays in health and reproduction. ...

If I remember, one of the main food differences in the cat feed was pasteurized milk vs fresh raw milk. The second half of the experiment involved sowing various plants (using the same seeds) in the two adjacent cat pens (after vacating the cats). The powerful result was in the side-by-side comparison of the plant growth in the pens: one pen had horrible growth and weeds - the other sported lush growth of everything planted. In this case the soil (and its organisms) reflects the cat's health and feed.
 
SethianSeth said:
Before I had this forum, it was a crapshoot (as everyone here has experienced) and the roller coaster ride never felt to pay off completely. I'd probably have coasted on veganism quite a ways longer thinking I was doing myself good if I hadn't learned the saturated fat lesson.

One of my challenges in keeping up with all the reading is that my left eye went bad in 1996. My peripheral vision is OK but I lost part of my central vision in that eye to an occluded vein. This happened about 6-8 months after I "went vegan."

I always assumed that this was some kind of leftover consequence from the "standard American diet" that I had been consuming previously, but that may not be. I read something recently (can't remember which book or exactly what it said) that suggested that it could have been caused by the vegan diet!
 
Megan said:
I think Fiber Menace is THE book on fiber and GI issues. It isn't perfect, and his zero-fiber recovery diet was a bit too much for me, but it will teach you more about colons that you ever wanted to know. You will still have to combine that information with information from other books.

On the other hand, the zero fiber approach was what Atriedes had to follow for months in order to heal his colon after last holiday's horrible episode where he nearly lost it.

I tell ya, sitting there and hearing the gastroenterologist say that a fiber free diet (residue free) is what you have to do to CLEAN the colon before a colonoscopy, and that some people have to follow it to heal IBS and ulcerative colitis and so forth, was a real revelation. Why the "industry" keeps telling us that fiber is what cleans the colon is beyond me since, clearly, every gastroenterologist on the planet knows otherwise.
 
Laura said:
Megan said:
I think Fiber Menace is THE book on fiber and GI issues. It isn't perfect, and his zero-fiber recovery diet was a bit too much for me, but it will teach you more about colons that you ever wanted to know. You will still have to combine that information with information from other books.

On the other hand, the zero fiber approach was what Atriedes had to follow for months in order to heal his colon after last holiday's horrible episode where he nearly lost it.

I tell ya, sitting there and hearing the gastroenterologist say that a fiber free diet (residue free) is what you have to do to CLEAN the colon before a colonoscopy, and that some people have to follow it to heal IBS and ulcerative colitis and so forth, was a real revelation. Why the "industry" keeps telling us that fiber is what cleans the colon is beyond me since, clearly, every gastroenterologist on the planet knows otherwise.

I believe that the author of Fiber Menace found himself in a similar situation. He was motivated to write the book by some extremely serious GI problems. It may turn out that there are some people that cannot consume fiber, and others that must consume a certain amount of fiber, at least until they can reduce their dependency on the stuff (if they are able). I am going to review that part of Fiber Menace when I have a chance.
 

Her suggestions about what to do are very good except that they include this:

Even though vegetables and greens were mostly an optional source of nutrients in our primitive, ice age past,

What?? Does she think there were tomato and cucumbers growing on glaciers? The "optional source of nutrients in our primitive, ice age past" was a nice, juicy mastodon steak with a side order of bone marrow.
 
I still bless Atkins for roping people in with the weight loss aspect. The real gold was opening the mind, a daunting task at that tme, and I think he superbly kept the information balanced with the right words to motivate, the right amount of well
researched, easy to understand facts( I recognize studies even in the newest books) to inform without overwhelming. I really learned about insulin and the role of fats. Though not perfect, he had the essentials right. It is a gluten free diet and I believe he was well aware (he coined the phrase DRD dietary related disease) that this was about so much more than weight loss. Recommending mostly the right stuff, in the the thick of the worst medical recommendations that everyone tokk as Gospel.
It was so eye opening for me. I remember being gobsmacked and incredulous at the horse S. everyone was being fed. And I remember that it made sense like nothing else I had read nutrition wise. Anything I ever read after that I was able to discern because of the foundation he taught me. Even at his death he had groups, especially vegetarian groups trying to discredit him.....Physicians leaking out medical information that was so distorted, trying to make it look like he was obese (I.V. fluid retention) or that he had a heart attack (lies... he had picked up a viral infection in turkey) or that his organs were shutting down because of his poor health (he had severe head trauma with half his brain removed and was dying for 9 days.)
Linus Pauling too. They tried to make him look like a nut.

There's been many times, listening to people in passing who have spoke about something like having to pick up becel margarine as their loved one just had bypass surgey, cutting out eggs, going low fat and I have to keep my mouth shut mostly, although i do try to reccommend a book but I know it's probably not going to amount to anything.
I have bought dozens of Atkins at garage sales ect. and pass them out to those I think there's a chance with. It's not perfect but an opportunity to open their minds and a step in the right direction for some that would otherwise never open anything of substance.
It is also really heart wrenching when I realize that the majority of my loved ones, even at the height of my enthusiastic endorsement, impassioned explanations of the amazing ketosis metabolic pathway and after dropping lots of weight and feeling great, to realize that their fear of opening their minds, their
attachment (with more people than I figured) to their poor health as an identity, to doctors, far outweighed the tiny spark of interest I generated. I'm so thankful for this group and the two people in my life that are open and active in this learning process.
One of the hardest is my parents. It hurt to realize my own Father has no capacity to listen to information that hasn't come from a doctor and is totally dismissive when it comes from me. At first I took it personally, then I realized he thinks all his kids are idiots with nothing of importance to say. I do believe he'd take the dog groomer's endorsement of Skinny bitches more seriously unfortunately.
And my mother is going blind from diabetes. She already had gangerene, her heart only half works and I've spent so much time explaining WHY the doctors reccommendations are contradictory to her condition and she pretends to be interested but I now know it's futile. I think just living it is all you can really do.
 
Laura said:
I'm cross-posting this from the Life Without Bread thread:

Chapter 31 of PBPM has a scary story that should give us all pause:

Years ago, in the 1930s, a scientist and doctor by the name of Francis Pottenger initiated a series of now famous feeding experiments with cats that spanned more than ten years and several feline generations. His findings transformed many people's view of the role that diet plays in health and reproduction.

{snip}

...We are too many unhealthy generations of "Pottenger's cats" into the Industrial Revolution and the ravages of a deteriorating food supply, and we are too genetically compromised by all this to indulge in a dietary approach dictated merely by one's superficial tastes (e.g. comfort of junk food) or wishful ideals (e.g. vegetarianism and veganism. Many people no longer have the same resilience of even a generation ago.

{...}

I personally submit that we are now living in a world and in a time where there is no longer any room for error with respect to what we must do to maintain our health and survival. Pottenger's work has shown us that progressive generations with poor dietary habits result in increasingly more vulnerable progeny and that each subsequent generation with unhealthy dietary habits results in impaired resistance to disease, increasingly poor health and vitality, impaired mental and cognitive health, and impaired capacity to reproduce. It is all part of what we are seeing in our epidemic levels of poor health and the overwhelming rates of autism, violence, attentional disorders, childhood (and adult) behavioral problems, mental illness, fertility issues, and birth defects.

We are a few generations of Pottenger's cats, as humans, past the dawn of the Industrial Revolution and the ever-tightening tendrils of the unscrupulous, greed-driven food industry it spawned. We, as a species, have never been more vulnerable. Today, the effects of the increasingly widespread consumption of processed and fast foods are glaringly, if not disturbingly, clear. Add this to an increasingly contaminated environment, nightmarishly dangerous and spreading GMOs, a proft-based (rather than results based) and broken health care system, and a broken economy on a global scale, along with progressively inferior and deteriorating food and water supplies, and the implications are virtually, if not wholly, cataclysmic.

The odds are clearly stacked against us.

Her suggestions about what to do are very good except that they include this:

Because of this toxic onslaught, our need for antioxidants and the foods that help us produce them internally has never been greater. {So far, so good... but she forgets that the liver is the major detox organ and just getting in the fat that feeds and stimulates the liver and letting the liver do it's job is the biggest detox element of the human body!} Even though vegetables and greens were mostly an optional source of nutrients in our primitive, ice age past, the time has come to greatly increase their role in our modern diets, both to provide a varied plethora of phytonutrients and antioxidants to our beleaguered, embattled cells, and, to some degree, to provide fiber as a means of binding unwanted, conjugated, carcinogenic xenoestrogens and eliminating them from our bodies, preventing their reabsorption Plant foods are probably more important to us now than ever before.

She has, apparently, missed the boat entirely on the topic of lectins and dangerous plant antinutrients, not to mention the fact that plants today aren't what they used to be. And, the most important thing of all that she is missing is the gross irritation that indigestible plant matter effects on the colon, not to mention the fact that plants ferment in the intestines and a lot of toxins are REABSORBED by this slowing down and bulking up in the colon!

Speaking of the increased vulnerability of progressive generations and indigestible plant matter, here’s an excerpt from a lecture presented by Dr. Max Gerson--in 1956!, in which he rails against the “modern diet." Just think how much worse it is today, nearly 2 generations later.
THE CURE OF ADVANCED CANCER BY DIET THERAPY:
A SUMMARY OF 30 YEARS OF CLINICAL EXPERIMENTATION
A lecture delivered by Dr. Max Gerson at Dr. Jensen’s Health Ranch in Escondido, CA in 1956.

Our soil must be normal, no artificial fertilizers should be used, no poisons, no sprays which go into the soil and poison it. Whatever grows on a poisoned soil carries poison too...I am convinced that the soil is our external metabolism.
...
But our modern food, the “normal” food people eat, is bottled, poisoned, canned, color added, powdered, frozen, dipped in acids, sprayed-no longer normal. We no longer have living, normal food, our food and drink is a mass of dead, poisoned material, and one cannot cure very sick people by adding poisons to their systems. We cannot detoxify our bodies when we add poisons through our food which is one of the reasons why cancer is so much on the increase.

Saving time in the kitchen is fine but the consequences are terrible. Thirty or fifty years ago… Only elderly people whose liver…was worn out… contracted cancer when they were 60 to 70 years old and cancer was a rare disease.

now… nearly one out of three dies of cancer… in the second generation it is even worse. The poor children get leukemias more and more. There is no country which has so much leukemia as this country (USA), no country in the world. That is our fault. Ice cream is made with invert sugar. Coca-Cola contains phosphoric acid. Is it surprising that children get degenerative disease?
_http://cancer-research.net/CureOfAdvancedCancer.pdf
 
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