Bullied children can suffer lasting psychological harm as adults

[Carl]

Bullies who were also victims were particularly troubled: they were 14.5 times more likely to develop panic disorder as adults, compared to those who did not experience bullying, and 4.8 times more likely to experience depression. Men who were both bullies and victims were 18.5 times more likely to have had suicidal thoughts in adulthood, compared to the participants who had not been bullied or perpetuators.

Dose anybody know why that's the case, the above quote? I probably fit this category. Got bullied and bullied, along with my mental illness. It made a lot of days at school unbearable.

I guess it could be to do with guilt over damage done to others, combined with damage done to the self. School is a terrible place for an unguided soul growing up, and it's very easy to feed on someone psychologically weaker than you after becoming prey for a psycho type, or join in with the crowd instead of standing up for a friend.

The energetic food chain is as overt as in a wolf pack..

 

[Gwenllian]

Bullies who were also victims were particularly troubled: they were 14.5 times more likely to develop panic disorder as adults, compared to those who did not experience bullying, and 4.8 times more likely to experience depression. Men who were both bullies and victims were 18.5 times more likely to have had suicidal thoughts in adulthood, compared to the participants who had not been bullied or perpetuators.

Dose anybody know why that's the case, the above quote? I probably fit this category. Got bullied and bullied, along with my mental illness. It made a lot of days at school unbearable.

I guess it could be to do with guilt over damage done to others, combined with damage done to the self. School is a terrible place for an unguided soul growing up, and it's very easy to feed on someone psychologically weaker than you after becoming prey for a psycho type, or join in with the crowd instead of standing up for a friend.

The energetic food chain is as overt as in a wolf pack..

Gee, some quotes from 'Hold on to your Kids' by Gordon Neufeld and Gabor Maté:

An even scarier thought is that if peers have replaced adults as the ones who matter most, what is missing in those peer relationships is going to have the most profound impact. Absolutely missing in peer relationships are unconditional love and acceptance, the desire to nurture, the ability to extend oneself for the sake of the other, the willingness to sacrifice for the growth and development of the other. When we compare peer relationships with parent relationships for what is missing, parents come out looking like saints. The results spell disaster for many children.

...

The most prevalent forms of childhood and teenage aggression are not the fights and assaults that are the focus of studies or statistics but the attacking gestures, words, and actions that are the daily modes of interaction among peer-oriented kids. The attacks may be emotional, vented in hostility, antagonism, and contempt. They may be expressed in rude gestures or the rolling of the eyes, or in words through insults and put-downs. The attack can be in the tone of voice, in a mocking gesture, in the glare of the eyes, in the posture of the body, in the sarcasm of a comment, or in the coldness of a response. Aggression can be directed toward oneself in self-deprecation like "I'm so stupid," self-hostility like "I hate myself," headbanging, self-harm and suicidal thoughts and impulses. Attacks can be directed toward existence itself, such as "I'm going to kill you" or I'm going to kill myself." Attacks on existence can also be psychological, as in ostracism, in pretending that another does not exist or refusing to acknowledge someone's presence. The list is endless.

I would think that these quotes can explain the depression, the panic disorders (kids that are afraid to go to school) and the suicidal thoughts.
The authors do not mention the bullying done by (head-)teachers. Nowadays, bullying also takes place in the social media. And maybe that is even more destructive, because it can be anonymous.

 

[Infiniteness]

Thats interesting Carlise and Mariama, its hard to deal with especially if your parents don't know or care. If the bullying is severe, the best thing to do is probably change schools or do home schooling.

Here is a website talking more about it, the bully-victim. One part that caught my eye.

Given that they experience a broader range of behavioral and emotional difficulties than do children who are either purely involved in bullying or the victims of bullying, it is perhaps not surprising that bully-victims show social and emotional problems that are frequently present in victims of bullying, such as anxiety, depression, peer rejection, and a lack of close friendships, as well as the cognitive and behavioral difficulties often apparent in children who bully, including a greater acceptance of rule-breaking behavior, hyperactivity and a tendency toward reactive aggression (1, 4).

http://www.education.com/reference/article/what-is-a-bully-victim/?page=2

 

[Psalehesost]

This subject of bullying and (some of) its effects having been brought up, I wonder if someone is familiar with any book that treats it - and the psychosocial dynamics involved - much like the "Big 5" books treat narcissism and wounding stemming from it, i.e. in a practically useful way for those who've been through it?

John Taylor Gatto's work has been healing in treating school in general, but this - bullying - may be a missing piece for focusing on and fully dealing with my past, and I suspect the same might well go for others here who've been through it as well.

when we entered engineering college, new comers are subjected to systemic bullying called Ragging for specific period of month or so.

Ragging is a practice in educational institutions in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Sri Lanka that involves existing students baiting
or bullying new students. It is similar to the phenomenon of hazing. It often takes a malignant form wherein the newcomers may be subjected
to psychological or physical torture.[1][2] Currently, Sri Lanka is said to be the worst affected country in the world.[3][4]

My college is considered worst during those days. At the end of the process, we left with a strange feeling. The bright,creative,self confident students, who entered
outside their city/family support for the first time became normalised, scared to raise their mouth or express their creative ideas or show confidence, scared to see the face of seniors comfortably for number of years.

I often wondered who got this stupid idea. It is a sort of systemic ponerisation.

When it comes to school the basic ideas underpinning these institutions seem to have been formulated by schizoid psychopaths, in looking at e.g. the ideological writings quoted by John Taylor Gatto. And as for higher education, in serving nowadays as an extension for the same purpose - producing "suitable" workers - I think the same is likely to apply. In any case, the effects you describe are just such as certain pathological people would favor, and they are consistent with the general agenda of schooling prior to higher education.

I guess those of us in countries where this bullying process stops after secondary school are lucky. Though there may be a reason - people at the university I attend here in Sweden seem incredibly well-adjusted, silent, seldom speaking up in general. For the most part, they arrive already incredibly "normalized" - and I guess that means the system at its earlier stages is so successful that more isn't needed, and hence saner people are allowed to design (in greater part) the system at its later stages; for what does it matter anyway - everyone is already an inhibited automaton.

 

[Gwenllian]

This subject of bullying and (some of) its effects having been brought up, I wonder if someone is familiar with any book that treats it - and the psychosocial dynamics involved - much like the "Big 5" books treat narcissism and wounding stemming from it, i.e. in a practically useful way for those who've been through it?

John Taylor Gatto's work has been healing in treating school in general, but this - bullying - may be a missing piece for focusing on and fully dealing with my past, and I suspect the same might well go for others here who've been through it as well.

That is a very good question, OSIT, Psalehesost.

I have done a bit of browsing and found this book.
http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Bullying-Suicide-Homicide-Butch-Losey/9780415873475?b=-3&t=-20#Fulldescription-20

Review quote:

"Dr. Losey has developed a must-have set of tools for mental health professionals who work with youth experiencing bullying." - Dawna Cricket Meehan, Coordinator of School Mental Health Projects, Center for School-Based Mental Health Programs, Miami University "No longer are bullying experiences trivialized. Losey expands on the devastating short and long term effects of bullying while offering a new assessment tool, the Bullying Lethality Identification System, to enhance the possibilities of teens getting the mental health resources needed." - Donna Dickman, Certified Olweus Trainer; Executive Director, Partnership for Violence Free Families "Dr. Losey is not only knowledgeable on the subject of bullying, but he is also a compassionate professional that uses this knowledge to help children, parents, and educators prevent and identify this problem. I highly recommend this book to mental health professionals." - Joy Wilson, EdD, LPCC-S, New Journey Counseling LLC, Cincinnati, Ohio "This is a must read for anyone working in the mental health field with those targeted by bullying. Losey uses theory, research, and other people's personal experiences related to bullying to draw you full circle into why individuals experience suicidal ideation or may threaten violence. I highly recommend this book to fellow mental health professionals and trainers in bullying prevention and intervention." - Paulie Velotta, EdS, LSW, Crossroads Consultation, Training and Education Specialist; Nationally Certified Olweus Bullying Prevention Trainer "A renowned expert and speaker, Dr Losey is truly a pioneer in this critical field of bullying and it's severe consequences to our children. His new assessment tool, The Bullying Lethality Identification System, provides understanding of the issues and strong advice for preventing and correcting the problem. A MUST read for all professionals in the field. Even though it is academic, it is also a great resource for parents and families who are affected by bullying; giving them tools to identify and understand the problem, with the knowledge of resources available for their children." - Charles D. Leviton, EdD, MFT, Synergy Seminars, Palm Springs , California, Author of The Conflict Between Us is the Conflict Within Me and The Journey into Self
Main description

Maybe I can dig up some more.

 

[obyvatel]

I have not come across a book dealing exclusively with psychological effects of bullying but this is what I have picked up from various psychological material and personal experience. One subconscious message that is internalized as a result of bullying is that the world is not a safe place and it can result in general social anxiety and panic attacks as research shows. Bullying by peers can also lead to deep anger which can be subconsciously directed against authority figures or the self.

Anger against authority comes from their unwillingness to stop the bullying which is accompanied by a pervading sense of unfairness about the whole world. This can result in acting out later in direct (breaking rules, defying laws without any real purpose) or indirect ways (general cynicism and passive forms of defiance).

Anger against the self may come from self-blame for being unable to stand up to bullies. One who is bullied feels weak, helpless and invalidated and may start hating oneself for that especially since the bullies are from the peer group. This anger against the self can give rise to depression. It can also result in bullying others to redeem one's weak and helpless self-image. We need to be careful in distinguishing bullies with essential character disturbance and those who are reacting to wounds inflicted by others in this regard.

The first step towards healing would most likely involve recognizing how bullying has affected oneself and one's views about reality. This may bring a lot of anger to the surface which needs to be dealt with appropriately. Writing exercises as well as physical activity to dissipate the trapped energy of the sympathetic arousal (like what is suggested by Peter Levine in "In An Unspoken Voice") are very useful in this regard. Some say that to heal it is important to forgive the perpetrators. Forgiveness can come only after a deep and complete acknowledgement of the pain suffered from the abuse and the accompanying practice of self-compassion which can then be extended to others. Forgiveness used in this sense does not mean any reconciliation (if there is still any contact with perpetrators) but consciously bringing to light and giving up any unconscious desire for punishment for others. The question of justice is best left to the universe to handle. Thus one can regain one's sense of self-worth that was damaged by the abuse and gradually work on reaffirming one's faith in the universe as well.

fwiw

 

[Nook]

Bullies who were also victims were particularly troubled: they were 14.5 times more likely to develop panic disorder as adults, compared to those who did not experience bullying, and 4.8 times more likely to experience depression. Men who were both bullies and victims were 18.5 times more likely to have had suicidal thoughts in adulthood, compared to the participants who had not been bullied or perpetuators.

Dose anybody know why that's the case, the above quote? I probably fit this category. Got bullied and bullied, along with my mental illness. It made a lot of days at school unbearable.

I guess it could be to do with guilt over damage done to others, combined with damage done to the self. School is a terrible place for an unguided soul growing up, and it's very easy to feed on someone psychologically weaker than you after becoming prey for a psycho type, or join in with the crowd instead of standing up for a friend.

The energetic food chain is as overt as in a wolf pack..

I've been thinking about this since you posted it, Carlise but I still don't understand how bullied people can become bullies.
At least not with a basic intelligence quotient. I mean if there's Anyone that should understand what bullies do to those kids and the damage they cause it should be them! So why on earth inflict any damage the effects of which you're absolutely aware of?? They just forget about how it made them feel or their need for revenge on innocent people is stronger? Or are they that stupid?

I was bullied for a few years and then things changed. Bullies got fired or failed the class.
And eventually I was given a choice to become a bully myself (because over the years I befriended two people in my class that were ex member of the bully gang, though they were mostly passive by-standers).
But I didn't take it. Not only because I could empathize with those who were labeled 'losers' but because I knew I wouldn't want to be one of those that inflict pain and/or damage unto others.

And by refusing to bully the newcomers in our class, I influenced the former bully gang members to change their perspective and to make them realize that there's nothing to gain by bullying, only to lose, or so I rationalized it to myself at the time but even today I think at least to some extent, it's true.

I wonder if someone is familiar with any book that treats it - and the psychosocial dynamics involved - much like the "Big 5" books treat narcissism and wounding stemming from it, i.e. in a practically useful way for those who've been through it?

Thanks for asking about this Psalehesost, I've been wondering and been wanting to ask about this as well.

I have done a bit of browsing and found this book.
http://www.bookdepository.co.uk/Bullying-Suicide-Homicide-Butch-Losey/9780415873475?b=-3&t=-20#Fulldescription-20

Thanks, Mariama for pointing out this book. Will try to get it sometime soon.

And thanks for your post, obyvatel. Also a good reminder, as I have not read In An Unspoken Voice yet.

The hardest part in your summary seems to be the forgiving part as of now.
Even if I'm trying to be externally considerate, not to be judgmental either towards myself or others, because after all, we can only act according to our current level of knowledge and being.
But I find that hard to apply to these 'people'. More likely OPs, at least in my case.
That constant terrorizing for years for 'fun'...I better get back to reading. Much to learn. 'Application of knowledge' first priority now :)

 

[Nook]

I've found three more books related to the subject that I also added to my list.

Haters: Children of Abandonment and Change [Kindle Edition]

Book Description
Publication Date: March 18, 2012

The author describes things done and not done to young children. The dynamics of youth hate are described. Development of hurtful behaviors, including bullying, drug abuse, and suicide, is reviewed. The author offers case histories and references to updated violence assessments.

Bullying (Health and Medical Issues Today) [Hardcover]

Book Description
Publication Date: October 17, 2012

Bullying goes far beyond typical treatments of the topic by presenting an overview of the research concerning the causes, symptoms, and prevalence of bullying to illustrate how it is not simply a social issue but both a genuine medical and health issue. The author draws upon both clinical data and her own extensive experience observing children's interactions on school playgrounds and from interviewing parents, teachers, administrators, and children themselves to reach conclusions about evidence-based prevention and treatment.

The work provides a deeper understanding of bullying by presenting biological and psychological theories of aggression, describing why bystanders who witness bullying react in the way that they do, offering novel ways to deal with the problem, and presenting proven methods that concerned bystanders of all ages can employ to break bullying behaviors—without increasing their own risk. It provides information of great relevance to students, parents, counselors, educators, teaching assistants, and administrators.

Understanding School Bullying: A Guide for Parents and Teachers

Book Description
Publication Date: February 14, 2011

This book provides a rich understanding of school bullying and the many forms it takes. The reader will be left in no doubt as to the serious consequences of bullying for the victims, the bullies, and, indeed, society. Crucial and practical steps are provided, especially for parents and teachers, as to how they can make a real difference in reducing the widespread and serious level of victimization and bullying in our schools today.

 

[Buddy]

Bullies who were also victims were particularly troubled: they were 14.5 times more likely to develop panic disorder as adults, compared to those who did not experience bullying, and 4.8 times more likely to experience depression. Men who were both bullies and victims were 18.5 times more likely to have had suicidal thoughts in adulthood, compared to the participants who had not been bullied or perpetuators.

Dose anybody know why that's the case, the above quote? I probably fit this category. Got bullied and bullied, along with my mental illness. It made a lot of days at school unbearable.

I guess it could be to do with guilt over damage done to others, combined with damage done to the self. School is a terrible place for an unguided soul growing up, and it's very easy to feed on someone psychologically weaker than you after becoming prey for a psycho type, or join in with the crowd instead of standing up for a friend.

The energetic food chain is as overt as in a wolf pack..

I've been thinking about this since you posted it, Carlise but I still don't understand how bullied people can become bullies.
At least not with a basic intelligence quotient. I mean if there's Anyone that should understand what bullies do to those kids and the damage they cause it should be them! So why on earth inflict any damage the effects of which you're absolutely aware of?? They just forget about how it made them feel or their need for revenge on innocent people is stronger?

I think that some bullies do "forget" and do so in a similar way to how trauma to the self is "forgotten", yet can be dramatized with the body language and words that reflect unconscious memories of what the bully-as-victim actually experienced.

I was bullied for a few years and then things changed. Bullies got fired or failed the class.
And eventually I was given a choice to become a bully myself (because over the years I befriended two people in my class that were ex member of the bully gang, though they were mostly passive by-standers).
But I didn't take it. Not only because I could empathize with those who were labeled 'losers' but because I knew I wouldn't want to be one of those that inflict pain and/or damage unto others.

And by refusing to bully the newcomers in our class, I influenced the former bully gang members to change their perspective and to make them realize that there's nothing to gain by bullying, only to lose, or so I rationalized it to myself at the time but even today I think at least to some extent, it's true.

No doubt you did have a positive influence here. As you said, those "bullies" were mostly of the passive follower type. If your argument was the stronger one, they would naturally follow your example, I think.

I wonder if someone is familiar with any book that treats it - and the psychosocial dynamics involved - much like the "Big 5" books treat narcissism and wounding stemming from it, i.e. in a practically useful way for those who've been through it?

Thanks for asking about this Psalehesost, I've been wondering and been wanting to ask about this as well.

I don't know any books that treat the subject "in a practically useful way for those who've been through it" but there are concentration exercises that can train attention to the point where a person can control reflexive reactions. But I'm not sure if that's what you meant?

I've read several books on the subject of bullying, but short of being able to control one's own attention and be ready to defend one's own body from attack, I've not read anything that can solve the bullying problem - at least not in an environment where education itself is compulsory.

 

[history]

I've been thinking about this since you posted it, Carlise but I still don't understand how bullied people can become bullies.
At least not with a basic intelligence quotient. I mean if there's Anyone that should understand what bullies do to those kids and the damage they cause it should be them! So why on earth inflict any damage the effects of which you're absolutely aware of?? They just forget about how it made them feel or their need for revenge on innocent people is stronger? Or are they that stupid?

Isn't it the same psychological mechanism that causes bullied people to bully that turns the childhood victims of sexual molestation into adult molesters of children?

 

[anart]

I've been thinking about this since you posted it, Carlise but I still don't understand how bullied people can become bullies.
At least not with a basic intelligence quotient. I mean if there's Anyone that should understand what bullies do to those kids and the damage they cause it should be them! So why on earth inflict any damage the effects of which you're absolutely aware of?? They just forget about how it made them feel or their need for revenge on innocent people is stronger? Or are they that stupid?

Isn't it the same psychological mechanism that causes bullied people to bully that turns the childhood victims of sexual molestation into adult molesters of children?

This is a difficult question to answer since you're making such broad assumptions. Not all people who were bullied turn into bullies and not all people who are sexually abused turn into sexual abusers. I'm sure there are many factors that determine how a person reacts to either, their basic psychological substratum being part of that.

 

[history]

Isn't it the same psychological mechanism that causes bullied people to bully that turns the childhood victims of sexual molestation into adult molesters of children?

This is a difficult question to answer since you're making such broad assumptions. Not all people who were bullied turn into bullies and not all people who are sexually abused turn into sexual abusers. I'm sure there are many factors that determine how a person reacts to either, their basic psychological substratum being part of that.

Sorry, I meant for the ones that do turn into bullies or molesters.

 

[Buddy]

Sorry, I meant for the ones that do turn into bullies or molesters.

I've not seen any evidence of an across-the-board answer that would apply to everyone in your question. I have read studies that suggest a link between a compulsion to visit personal traumas on others and whether or not a trauma victim believed (s)he was responsible for what happened to him or her during the original traumatic event. Those traumas are said to be the ones that people split off from and "forget."

There are also traumas that happen to people in the pre-verbal stage. They are not remembered because later on in life there are no words and images that come to mind, but there may still be a compulsion to "work it" on others. One well-cited study refers to a compulsion related to circumcision trauma. In fact, I remember reading a suggestion that male doctors who sit on panels that debate infant circumcision should be required to disclose their own status; the idea being to consider their advice and recommendations in light of a possible conflict of interest.

But even all that doesn't account for all examples of bullying and molesting. Each case would need to be investigated individually.

 

[history]

I've not seen any evidence of an across-the-board answer that would apply to everyone in your question. I have read studies that suggest a link between a compulsion to visit personal traumas on others and whether or not a trauma victim believed (s)he was responsible for what happened to him or her during the original traumatic event. Those traumas are said to be the ones that people split off from and "forget."

Sorry, this is confusing for me. Will you please restate. Thanks.

There are also traumas that happen to people in the pre-verbal stage. They are not remembered because later on in life there are no words and images that come to mind, but there may still be a compulsion to "work it" on others. One well-cited study refers to a compulsion related to circumcision trauma. In fact, I remember reading a suggestion that male doctors who sit on panels that debate infant circumcision should be required to disclose their own status; the idea being to consider their advice and recommendations in light of a possible conflict of interest.

This is very interesting indeed and whether pre-verbal trauma applies or not (and I think it does, FWIW), I think male doctors should have to disclose their status because there has to be bias in either direction if simply because most want to feel that they are the norm and therefore, the best. This is a great point. Thanks.

But even all that doesn't account for all examples of bullying and molesting. Each case would need to be investigated individually.

Of course.

 

[Buddy]

I've not seen any evidence of an across-the-board answer that would apply to everyone in your question. I have read studies that suggest a link between a compulsion to visit personal traumas on others and whether or not a trauma victim believed (s)he was responsible for what happened to him or her during the original traumatic event. Those traumas are said to be the ones that people split off from and "forget."

Sorry, this is confusing for me. Will you please restate. Thanks.

Yep, studies of German concentration camp survivors, for instance. Following up on some survivors later in life, it was found that people or groups who always knew they were not responsible for what happened to them were able to function more or less normally in society and without an evident need to punish anyone for what they had suffered. Lloyd deMause cites these kinds of studies in his psycho-history work.

This is contrasted with other studies concerning people who have undergone hypnosis during cognitive therapy. Patients recall the kinds of things that were said to them about how they deserved their treatments; that they believed what they were being told. The patients make their own connections between their earlier experiences and the problems for which they sought therapy to begin with. The patients were unable to remember these occurrences in their ordinary waking life while other patients could remember similar traumatizing events that contained different postulates and beliefs about what they were experiencing.

I don't see how it could be any other way. If I experienced that much physical and emotional pain at one time and also believed it was my fault, I couldn't live with myself. I'd have to either commit suicide or bury it very deeply in order to justify continued existence. Could I be the only one who thinks that?