buried or cremated?

[Don Diego]

Hello all,

It maybe a trivial question and You certainly will tell me!

Last week I attended my third cremation ceremony, first was my own mother (suicided) then a good friend (suicided) and finally a man who actually had been my archetypal father (mine being still unknown) died after 20 years of a kind of Alzheimer. All of them were atheist.

Always the same routine, an irreligious ceremony with some songs or music, hurriedly managed by the staff, without any kind of humaneness, no time for any funeral oration and some others family outside waiting for theirs, every fifteen minutes or so in a row because, I guess, the oven has to be profitable and deads have to be herded together. But that is not the point.

Twenty years ago as I was dramatically assaulted on a daily basis by suicidal thoughts, partly because of my vegetarian diet at that time and by personal issues (fortunatly solved by now), I used to say everyday to my wife this terce sentence : 3 days, 3 steres, 3 persons (her and my two kids) regardless of the unavoidable problem with law because crematorium are inhuman and I hated to leave a grave with a name on it and a reason to come at a cemetary and be sad. In fact it was ME who was inhuman and hugely selfish acting like this and making my poor wife so miserable. May DCM forgive me for that.

I'm still ok with the 3 terms "thing" even though I don't tell it anymore but now I doubt since I've read sayings from Maître Philippe de Lyon who said that deads shouldn't be burnt because :
We have to give back to Mother earth what she gave to us, it will be hugely difficult to come back if we do so, etc... By the way he has interesting takes upon hyperdimensionnal realities, you can read some here : _http://www.livres-mystiques.com/partieTEXTES/Vieetparoles/Pages/ATous.html

Not that I'm really interested to come back quickly in this awful 3D world...I was just wondering if the way we intend to take care of our body is important or if it's only a matter of cultural conditionning. Being "only" fifty y.o. I confess that the death issue bothers me a bit.

Sorry for the length, I like to be clear.Thanks for reading

 

[LQB]

Well, if you cremate and spread the ashes, then you are giving back to the earth your mineral remains. If you bury a body in a box in a field of stones, that doesn't seem like an effective way to return the remains for the good of the earth. I like the sky burial of the Tibetans where the body is cut up and thrown to the birds - unfortunately not very acceptable in most societies.

 

[SovereignDove]

I think the treatment of the body after death is cultural, seeing how it varies from culture, regions, belief systems, and ancient history. Some societies bury their dead, some cremate, and some mummify. Behind these practices there is often a belief in the afterlife, and what happens to the body/soul/consciousness of the individual in the afterlife. It seems to me that this belief in what happens to the individual then leads to the practice, treatment, and ritual of what happens to the body after death. It seems to me to be very subjective.

Both of my parents were cremated. Their ashes were put together, as they both wanted. The last step for my sister's and I is to scatter the ashes in Ireland when we can afford to do so. In our situation, we did what they had asked us to do when they passed. I know that I want to be cremated myself for various reasons:the cost is more affordable to whomever will be picking up the tab, I can be scattered in a place I loved or a place that held meaning or purpose for me. In the end, I personally don't think it matters what happens to the body after death. I think the memory of that person is more important because the individual will not be using that body again (but that is my belief).

I am sorry for your losses.

 

[Nancy2feathers]

Hi Do Diego.I`m sorry to hear of the passing of the loved ones close to you and the way they passed. There must of been a lot of pain going on in their lives. I`m sorry you are going through this.


I`m planning on being cremated when I pass. One of the positives of cremation is that I can plan a service at my home or rather that is what my wishes are, rather than a formal funeral. I would hope people would gather and talk and listen to music, share memories and have a Palelo feast! At some point I`d like my ashes scattered in my favorite places, my flower garden, the Delaware River, and Sedona AZ. My grown children know my wishes. I feel it`s important that your wishes be known, written down and notarized and also paid for ahead of time if possible. Cremation is legal where I live in USA. I don`t know if scattering your ashes is legal, but who is going to know? Ashes to ashes and dust to dust!

I don`t feel there is inhumaneness in cremation. I believe my spirit leaves my body when I die. My ashes are given back to the earth.

As far as diet goes and how I take care of my body in this life, it is a way of life. Mind, body and soul. For me, that`s what the Work here is about.

What is your diet like now?

I don`t understand when you say the" 3 terms thing".

 

[Don Diego]

Thanks for your replies.
I didn't mean to arouse pity as these losses are quite old except for the last one, just wanted to recall how much ceremonies in french crematoriums are insane and conducted with haste, like an industry. Also it's totally illegal to have a service at home here in france and the fine might be very heavy.

What is your diet like now?
I don`t understand when you say the" 3 terms thing".

I'm doing very fine on KD for months now

It means for me 3 days before the cremation with 3 cubic meters of wood in the presence of 3 persons, my closest ones.

 

[loreta]

I wanted to be cremated with the ashes of my dogs and the diaries of Virginia Woolf. It is very clear that I ask not a priest, not a mass, nothing religious at all at my funeral. Some years ago I wanted that my ashes be scattered in Senegal because I have been very happy there. But now I don't care anymore. I put my wishes in a will. It is the only important thing in this will because apart this I have nothing, no money, no legacy. That's all! ;)

Strange enough here in Spain cremation is rare. Specially with people that live in the country. They wanted absolutely to be buried with the rest of the dead of the family.

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Not that I'm really interested to come back quickly in this awful 3D world...I was just wondering if the way we intend to take care of our body is important or if it's only a matter of cultural conditionning. Being "only" fifty y.o. I confess that the death issue bothers me a bit.

I tend to think it is a cultural conditioning thing also. My aunt was cremated, and her ashes were shipped up here to the area she was born in. My sister-in-law's husband was cremated also. The cremation itself is separate from the "service." You don't even have to have any kind of a public service if you (by "you" I mean anyone in general) don't want to. In both the cases I mention, the family also chose to have a gravesite where the ashes were buried, so there was a "place" to come to and "visit."

I myself believe the spirit is gone, and it doesn't matter where or in what form the "body" is left. I never go to the cemetery where my parents are buried and I think some of my relatives think that's a bit "not nice" that I don't go and leave flowers/wreaths by their tombstone for Easter or Christmas or whatever. But, I can "talk" to them sitting in my living room if I want.

So I wouldn't let the death issue bother you. :)

 

[Laura]

Personally, I would wish to be cremated and my ashes scattered in the ocean or something. Don't want to become a messy pile of worms or rot.

No need for any ceremony either, just a party where everybody can enjoy themselves and drink toasts to me if they feel so inclined.

 

[Alana]

I think sometimes and to some people, cultural traditions are important, not so much for the deceased, but for the ones left behind. Sometimes the family needs the service, the burial, whatever ritual they are accustomed to, because in a way it helps them process the event, it has a familiar structure that they can follow at a very emotional time which allows them to say their goodbyes.

About 2 years ago, I remember the shock of my mother and her brothers and sisters, when they went to Athens to bury their younger brother. 40 days earlier they buried their father in our homeland, Cyprus, at the private family plot, next to his wife, and it was a priest of his community who everybody knew that read the ceremony, at the cemetery they've been going for years to leave flowers and lit the candle at their mother's grave. Having a family grave in Cyprus is a luxury that everyone can afford, and that's what they are used to.

40 days later they flew to Athens to bury their brother in a huge crowded cemetery, where they couldn't get a proper grave for him, but got instead something like a drawer-grave on a wall. They did not have this experience before, they thought it horrible, they were shocked and it added to their grief. They even had a fight with my aunt, his wife, trying to convince her to let them take him back to Cyprus to be buried at the family grave. Of course she told them that her husband would stay there, near to where their house is, so she can visit his burial site easily. Well, I thought them all mad, selfish and mean, making such a big deal about something that really was non-issue from my perspective, my uncle was gone, what does it matter where and how he is buried? But it did matter to them, and it seems that by not following the tradition as they were familiar with it and understood it, stunted in a way their grieving process. But such traditions are strong where we are coming from.

 

[Nawd]

Personally, I would wish to be cremated and my ashes scattered in the ocean or something. Don't want to become a messy pile of worms or rot.

No need for any ceremony either, just a party where everybody can enjoy themselves and drink toasts to me if they feel so inclined.

Well with the caskets floating along after hurricane Katrina...it just seems creepy to be buried in a casket.

Cremation seems the best way in my opinion.

 

[Buddy]

I've never ran across any material that explains why it is supposed to matter what is done to a body after death. The things that are done seem to be related to people's beliefs, whether they can explain them or not. And when someone writes what people should do as if they have special knowledge, and they don't explain why, I automatically get too suspicious to give them credibility.

The reason I wouldn't believe them at first is because I think if a person gets some kind of "higher truth" in a form that's clear enough to understand, then before he starts 'teaching people', he will be able to uncover some logic to explain it after-the-fact. But I don't mean "justifying" or "rationalizing", I mean a real theory that people can look at and comment on and that shows the author isn't just 'making it up' to push a personal agenda.

It's possible for a truth or fact to "come to you" mysteriously; even the famous mathematician Kurt Gödel has shown us that, but he also established the famous "incompleteness theorem" that made his logic and reasoning clear for all who could understand it and maybe complete it in the future. He cared about his work, and maybe that makes a difference.

FWIW, my wife wants to be cremated. As for me, I just haven't felt moved to decide, though I may choose the same.

 

[Nawd]

Well, I thought them all mad, selfish and mean, making such a big deal about something that really was non-issue from my perspective, my uncle was gone, what does it matter where and how he is buried? But it did matter to them, and it seems that by not following the tradition as they were familiar with it and understood it, stunted in a way their grieving process. But such traditions are strong where we are coming from.

Indeed.

My father's funeral was similar, but without so much extensive travel. He had to be buried in the 'family plot' which was a couple of hours away. When I said I would rather not go to his funeral, the family freaked out and said I would regret it. They also freaked out because instead of bringing my young children there, I had a friend watch them for the day. Why the heck would I subject my children to all of that?

What I regret most is seeing my dad in a casket. I already knew that he died, why was I escorted to the coffin when I really didn't want to see him that way?

Funerals are about the living.

 

[Zadius Sky]

Every one of my relatives who died were buried in either Baptist or Catholic cemeteries.

When I was in my teens, I decided to be cremated and be scattered along the east coast beaches, mixing with the sands of time. My idea of relaxing on the rising beach for all eternity.

 

[Mountain Crown]

[quote author=Buddy]I've never ran across any material that explains why it is supposed to matter what is done to a body after death.[/quote]

Buddhists claim that it takes a few days for the soul to completely separate from the body. During that time it is said proper treatment may mitigate potential confusion and/or terrors of the passing. They say cremation shouldn’t occur until then. The Tibetan Book of the Dead is actually a written account of what should be said to the corpse to explain the various experiences the dead dude is going through.

Can’t say I can verify this, but it seems interesting in light of near death experiences.

 

[Buddy]

Funerals are about the living.

I agree. And even where there are burials, my wife and I both enjoy stories about cultural practices of celebrating a person's death. It feels like a more natural attitude that acknowledges a stage of transition to something better. I feel like somber funeral and burial service rituals are unnatural and imposed by cultural conditioning. Watch as children will grieve from their personal memories of the deceased, but the actual funeral and burial procedure is mostly meaningless until it's taught from some basis.