Buying Shoes

HowToBe

The Living Force
I've discovered that my shoes have become too small, so I'm looking into getting new ones for work and home. (I didn't realize my feet were still growing!) In fact, I suspect using steel-toed shoes (or at least this particular pair) is responsible for identical numb spots on each of my big toes, toward the inside/body center, next to the toenail. My Mom used to have these and says hers went away when she got better-fitting shoes.

I've read about the benefits of going barefoot or at least using minimalist ("barefoot") shoes on SOTT, so I'd like to go this route if possible. Does anyone have experience with this? Since I work in retail, I stand and walk on a flat surface for about eight hours on most days. It would be extra cool to have grounded shoes for Earthing, but those might look a bit too unusual for work (not a big deal since the floor isn't grounded anyhow).

My concerns:
  • Cost: This type of shoe is more expensive than what I'm used to. Is it worth the expense? If it saves my feet and improves my overall posture and health, yes.
  • Ripoffs: I don't want to end up with something that's in reality no better than a conventional shoe.
  • Retail: Is this type of footwear appropriate for standing on hard, flat floors for long periods of time? Is there any reason to go for a conventional shoe, maybe with inserts or whatever will eliminate or minimize harm?
  • Shopping online: I'm not sure I'll be able to find a local source for this type of footwear, and it could be risky since I can't try them on prior to buying.

I figure shoes are a relatively long-term investment, so it warrants getting some feedback on.

Thanks,
HowToBe
 
HowToBe said:
I've discovered that my shoes have become too small, so I'm looking into getting new ones for work and home. (I didn't realize my feet were still growing!) In fact, I suspect using steel-toed shoes (or at least this particular pair) is responsible for identical numb spots on each of my big toes, toward the inside/body center, next to the toenail. My Mom used to have these and says hers went away when she got better-fitting shoes.

I've read about the benefits of going barefoot or at least using minimalist ("barefoot") shoes on SOTT, so I'd like to go this route if possible. Does anyone have experience with this? Since I work in retail, I stand and walk on a flat surface for about eight hours on most days. It would be extra cool to have grounded shoes for Earthing, but those might look a bit too unusual for work (not a big deal since the floor isn't grounded anyhow).

My concerns:
  • Cost: This type of shoe is more expensive than what I'm used to. Is it worth the expense? If it saves my feet and improves my overall posture and health, yes.
  • Ripoffs: I don't want to end up with something that's in reality no better than a conventional shoe.
  • Retail: Is this type of footwear appropriate for standing on hard, flat floors for long periods of time? Is there any reason to go for a conventional shoe, maybe with inserts or whatever will eliminate or minimize harm?
  • Shopping online: I'm not sure I'll be able to find a local source for this type of footwear, and it could be risky since I can't try them on prior to buying.

I figure shoes are a relatively long-term investment, so it warrants getting some feedback on.

Thanks,
HowToBe

Your feet don't grow when you get older, they change shape.

What usually happens when wearing shoes for many years is that your foot looses it's arch and flattens out - hence you need bigger shoes. This also creates pressure points and numbness.

One way to address this is to retrain a correct shape and foot mechanics, which takes time and discipline. There is a Swiss guy by the name of Christian Larsen, together with French physiotherapist Yolante Deswarte, who have developped such a program called Spiraldynamik(T). Most of the information is in German, but there are a few resources in English.
See here.

Another way is to go the an orthopedist and have him fit you out with a customised insole, that should take care of the numb spots.

Another way is to buy MBT shoes, they look ugly, but can be quite successful, as they provide a dynamic stance.

Hope this helps.
 
Your feet don't grow when you get older, they change shape.
yep thats what happens my mum,I,and my daughter all have the same size feet
my mum had some pairs of high-heels,handmade in the 50s that I inherited when her feet
got wider,and then passed them to my daughter when the same happened to me
being heels every generation only wore them a couple of times so they are now waiting for granddaughter to grow up ;)
having said that my favorite shoes atm are my steel-caps

i used to go barefoot a lot,even in the bush,and was told once to wear shoes more often as I was supposedly 'too' grounded
I did look into the grounding schtick ages ago and came across a theory that pointed out that most animals sleep with hoofs/paws turned up, not grounding !
 
If you are standing on hard surfaces for most of the day, I would go for a shoe with good arch support rather than those barefoot ones. I think they are meant for walking on a variety of natural surfaces, most of which are soft and uneven. Your feet can also get pretty cold if you are standing on stone or concrete.

A lot of people in retail or in nursing wear Dansko clogs, so that's one good idea for a kind of shoe to buy. They are a good fit for a wider foot, and their insoles can be removed to accommodate custom-made inserts, should you need them.
 
HowToBe said:
I've read about the benefits of going barefoot or at least using minimalist ("barefoot") shoes on SOTT, so I'd like to go this route if possible. Does anyone have experience with this? Since I work in retail, I stand and walk on a flat surface for about eight hours on most days. It would be extra cool to have grounded shoes for Earthing, but those might look a bit too unusual for work (not a big deal since the floor isn't grounded anyhow).

My concerns:

Cost: This type of shoe is more expensive than what I'm used to. Is it worth the expense? If it saves my feet and improves my overall posture and health, yes.
Ripoffs: I don't want to end up with something that's in reality no better than a conventional shoe.
Retail: Is this type of footwear appropriate for standing on hard, flat floors for long periods of time? Is there any reason to go for a conventional shoe, maybe with inserts or whatever will eliminate or minimize harm?
Shopping online: I'm not sure I'll be able to find a local source for this type of footwear, and it could be risky since I can't try them on prior to buying.


I figure shoes are a relatively long-term investment, so it warrants getting some feedback on.
I would suggest that, first, you go the route of orthodontic inserts - get your feet checked out to see if you need a custom-made insert or if you can get arch support with an 'off-the-shelf' version. For this, see if there is a 'Superfeet' fitter close to you. I've used their products for over ten years in both trekking shoes and everyday walking shoes.

In terms of 'barefoot' shoes, I use them both for trekking and for everyday use. The former, is a commercial brand of walking shoe (for the tread pattern), however for the latter, the shoe is based on a conventional shoe, bought and fitted in a shop before buying to ensure a good fit. Then I get a shoe-repairer to machine down the heel, either flat, or a recent improvement is to leave a heel approximately 1/4in high. Now in terms of 'grounding'/'earthing', all that is required is a natural - leather - sole. All of this may be achieved with a conventional shoe.

Going down this route, barefoot', may require some acclimatisation, I would suggest that practice walking around the house 'barefoot' to get used to walking on hard, fat floors for a long time. If you find that 'your modified' barefoot shoes do not work for you, you can always get a full heel put back on, and you have a conventional shoe again. And, at no lose in investment.

This may help, or not.
 
HowToBe said:
I've read about the benefits of going barefoot or at least using minimalist ("barefoot") shoes on SOTT, so I'd like to go this route if possible. Does anyone have experience with this? Since I work in retail, I stand and walk on a flat surface for about eight hours on most days. It would be extra cool to have grounded shoes for Earthing, but those might look a bit too unusual for work (not a big deal since the floor isn't grounded anyhow).

You may want to keep in mind that a lawsuit was brought against one of the larger manufacturers of these specialty shoes, Vibram, for making claims about the shoes which were not scientifically proven. The company has since settled that lawsuit, and now anyone who has purchased them could be due a refund.

Also, these kinds of shoes were not meant for everyday use. They were used primarily by boaters, rock climbers, and runners (which the benefits are highly questionable). If you are on your feet all day at work, I would recommend looking into a good name brand like Asics for a comfortable, supportive shoe. Also, inserts can help tremendously if you have any kind of feet issues like pronation.
 
I appreciate all of the links and information. There is in fact a Superfeet fitter nearby, as well as a store (in a hospital) that sells Dansko shoes. My mom expressed some concern about using clogs: that they can cause you to walk unnaturally, scuff your feet, and that you can't run in them (although she indicated that there may be exceptions). Seems like a bit of an over-reaction on her part to me, but thought it good to mention. It may be because she has back problems since childhood so her needs have always been a bit different.

And thanks Heimdallr for the info about the Vibram shoes. It seems maybe I was pulled to strongly by the barefoot idea. The question was sitting in the back of my mind, "what does the science say", but maybe not loudly enough. I looked up Asics, but I don't know if they are an option, since my dress code says "no tennis or athletic shoes", and the shoes must be black. I say a few of those that looked like possibilities, though.

I took a moment to try and find some info about the science of healthy footwear, and this seems like a balanced article:
_http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/comfort-shoes-arent-necessarily-good-for-you-how-to-find-the-support-you-need/2013/11/11/99846312-40dd-11e3-8b74-d89d714ca4dd_story.html
What makes a shoe a “comfort shoe”? Generally speaking, it means cushioning under the foot and supportive features such as arch support. Birkenstock sandals, another comfort line, have a molded foot bed with an indented heel cup and a bump under the forefoot — the metatarsal pad, which deflects pressure away from the ball of the foot. “They’re a really comfortable choice for many people,” says Erika Schwartz, a podiatrist with DC Foot and Ankle.

But for others, not so much. You know what they say about if the shoe fits — well, not all comfort shoes are comfortable or healthy for every foot.

A small study of people with osteoarthritis of the knee found that walking in clogs and so-called stability shoes was harder on the knees than walking barefoot or in flip-flops. [A concern because I've been having some knee strain at work due to repetitive kneeling.] This suggests that certain supportive shoes can alter your gait in a way that’s unhealthy for joints above the ankle, at least temporarily and in people with arthritis.

“What are the best shoes to wear? I hear this question 20 times a day,” says Selene Parekh, an orthopedic surgeon at Duke University Health System.

Parekh says to look for a shoe that’s supportive and comfortable — for you. That may not mean spending nearly $200 on a pair of loafers marketed to fit what one shoemaker calls the “anatomical footbed.”

If you are having foot problems, the best thing to do is figure out the type of foot you have and how you walk. Do you pronate — rotate your foot so that the inner edge of the sole bears the bulk of your weight? How high or how flat are your arches?

[...]

What about minimalist shoes, designed to honor the form and function of the foot? They are the antithesis of the comfort shoe: Advocates say that cushioned supportive shoes encourage runners to land on their heels, which can lead to bad form and chronic injury.

However, minimalist shoes are not right for everyone. “We’ve seen enough patients with Achilles tendon issues and stress fractures from running in these,” Schwartz says.

And whether the purported benefits hold true for walking and standing has not been nearly as well studied.

[...]

Orthotic inserts, whether purchased at the drugstore or custom-made, are designed to correct the alignment of the foot and ankle, which helps maintain proper positioning of the knees and hips and even the lower back.

Clinical studies of orthotics demonstrate their usefulness in many serious foot problems, such as diabetic neuropathy. For the rest of us, with more everyday aches and pains of life on our feet, there’s less applicable research. [Which means there's probably even less research about prevention, I'm thinking.]

A 2008 review of research on easing foot pain found one small study in which custom orthotics helped people with high-arch, supinated feet. For other conditions, such as bunions and plantar fasciitis, the evidence was equivocal.

Orthotics can be helpful, but “the vast majority of people don’t need custom orthotics,” Parekh says.

“In my experience, cheap orthotics really work just as well as custom-made ones for the most common problems,” says Katherine Margo, a family physician at the University of Pennsylvania.

Foot experts recommend shopping at shoe stores with experienced staff who take the time to do a good fitting. Schwartz sends her patients to high-end running shoe stores with a description of what to look for and what to avoid.

About my clogs? Parekh says their oversize shape allows “freedom of the foot” — a good thing. They’re comfortable and cushioned, which helps with standing on hard surfaces for long stretches. “The problem is,” he says, “no ankle support.” [I'm not sure this matters so much for me; at least, I'm not sure my current shoes offer any ankle support either, but I haven't had any problems on either flat or uneven surfaces. I suppose If there's a risk I should try to minimize it.

I’m nonetheless loath to part with them. I’ll just avoid hiking in them — and be super careful on uneven surfaces.

So, at the moment, I'm tending towards either a pair of good walking shoes (such as Asics) or an MBT type shoe for everyday use. For Work, maybe the clogs or MBTs. My question regarding the MBTs is: Is it really a good idea to wear those all the time? It probably depends on the circumstance, but it appears there is little if any long-term research on these new(-ish) types of shoe. I do get the impression that the round sole might make the repeated kneeling easier since the shoe could roll forward and resist the movement less, but that's just speculation. Here's an article about MBT shoes:
_http://lermagazine.com/article/unstable-shoe-designs-functional-implications

Also, for what it's worth, it seems that rocker/unstable shoes (The Skechers brand) have been involved in a similar class-action lawsuit to the one involving Vibram:
_http://www.nbcnews.com/id/39992618/ns/business-consumer_news%20Do%20those%20funky%20shoes%20really%20promote%20fitness?
Unhappy customer sues Skechers
Last month, a class action lawsuit was filed against Skechers by a woman in California. Venus Morga says she bought a pair of Shape-ups and did not experience any of the promised benefits.

In her lawsuit, Morga claims the company’s “false and misleading advertising campaign has allowed it to reap millions of dollars of profit at the expense of the consumers it misled.” The complaint also alleges that some people have been injured by wearing Shape-ups.

[...]

At Consumer Reports, Dr. Orly Avitzur, MD, is concerned that seniors who wear toning shoes could increase their risk of falling, which could result in hip fractures or other serious injuries.

“They are touted as this big miracle and actually for certain folks, they can be quite dangerous,” she says. “So if there’s no real advantage and some people risk falls, I think it’s actually more risk than reward.”

Eric Heit, DPM, who heads the podiatry section at Seattle’s Virginia Mason Medical Center, tells me toning shoes “redistribute the forces of walking” which can cause low back or knee pain.

That’s what happened to one of his patients, Brenda Moa, who walks on a concrete floor all day at her job. Moa says her knees and lower back started to hurt as soon as she started wearing the Shape-ups shoes.

“They were really wobbly and you could easily trip with them. I felt like I was drunk all the time,” Moa says. “I’m not a fan of these shoes. I wouldn’t buy another pair.”

Last year, the UC Berkeley Wellness Letter weighed in on toning shoes. The editor warned that they “may alter the biomechanics of your normal gait and your stride,” making it hard for you to switch back to your regular shoes.

“Rather than invest in these shoes,” the Wellness Letter suggested, “you can try going barefoot more often at home to build foot strength and flexibility – unless you have a condition, such as diabetes, that impairs circulation in the feet.”
(my bold) I realize "my mileage may vary". The following article shows the case was successful:
_http://www.boston.com/dailydose/2012/05/16/skechers-toning-shoes-buyers-can-get-refund-under-lawsuit-settlement-for-false-advertising/kPsQSXwo4xGAGtMtjedEMI/story.html

Ultimately, I suspect my knee strain will need dealt with via other approaches, like diet and supplementation so that my body can handle ordinary strain better, not to mention dealing with stress and emotional and psychological issues (and very likely spirit attachments). I suspect this because there was a period a while back when I had more energy, I actually had an unusual feeling of muscular strength and stability, my knees felt strong, and some minor aches I hadn't even realized I had went away. The idea that naturally follows is to figure out how to achieve that as a continuous state. But that's a whole other set of issues for another thread.

The ideal would be if I could try different shoes by using trial periods. I'll have to ask about return policies.
 
I've had the chance to wear a brand called Allegria. Apparently they are similar to Dansko. I found them to be very comfortable and think they would be great for anyone who had to be on their feet all day. That being said, I don't need orthotics, so that may factor in. As far as the idea of going barefoot to strengthen your feet, basically it's a good one, but it's important to walk on more than flat terrain. It's in adjusting to uneven ground that the feet get the strengthening effect of exercise.

If you are kneeling for periods of time, have you thought about wearing knee pads? There are some very nice, comfortable pads designed for gardening. They aren't bulky like athletic knee pads. Here is a review of some of the more common models.
 
Hi HowToBe

Like you, I stand for most of my day and I find FitFlops are fantastic. They do a range of sandals, clogs, boots, slippers, shoes in mens and womens and they dont look to bad either.

The only time I wear my orthotic insoles is with trainers, which I wear to work as I do a lot of walking to get there otherwise I dont need them when wearing the Fitflops all day.

Here is the link so you can check them out.

http://www.fitflop.co.uk/
 
herondancer said:
I've had the chance to wear a brand called Allegria. Apparently they are similar to Dansko. I found them to be very comfortable and think they would be great for anyone who had to be on their feet all day. That being said, I don't need orthotics, so that may factor in. As far as the idea of going barefoot to strengthen your feet, basically it's a good one, but it's important to walk on more than flat terrain. It's in adjusting to uneven ground that the feet get the strengthening effect of exercise.
...
Yes. I'd taken for granted that I did this (walking on uneven ground) in the hills, walking on uneven ground will also strengthen your ankles.
 
I personally think that clogs are only a good choice if you mainly stand and don't walk much. If you walk much, the negative part of the clogs is that they don't allow for the normal mechanics of walking, as they have a rigid sole. Christian Larsen the founder of SpiraldynamikTM describes the process extensively in his books (as far as I know they are only available in Germa[n, but there is some info on the net about it).
 
Well, while I stand a lot at the register, I also walk around, sometimes in a hurry, pulling items to the front of shelves, and it is when I must do this for the lower shelves that I kneel/crouch - it is too brief for me to be resting my knees on the floor, so that's not a concern.

I'll have to try on some clogs and see how they compare to what I'm wearing now - a pair of dress shoes with a very flat and square heel, with a sharp right angle - when my heel strikes it levers my foot forward, and I wonder if this doesn't contribute to my knee complaints (maybe the frontal muscles try to resist this movement). At the same time, MBT shoes seem to be advised against if you have knee issues. I'm also concerned about them because my room is up a flight of stairs, and I worry about the risk of having a "dynamic stance" in that situation. :/ ;)

So, here are some impressions so far:
The first test is whether the shoe feels good to begin with. It's also important to make sure that there's enough room inside for the foot to move a bit, and the toes aren't pressured or scrunched in any way. Lower heels are less stressful and injurious on the feet, ankles, and legs; that much seems cut and dried based on my reading so far. Also, I've been thinking it would be good if I could spread my toes all the way out without being blocked by the shoe. It might be revealing that my dad likes to wear shoes with some extra width - maybe I should follow the example.
 
nicklebleu said:
HowToBe said:
I've discovered that my shoes have become too small, so I'm looking into getting new ones for work and home. (I didn't realize my feet were still growing!) In fact, I suspect using steel-toed shoes (or at least this particular pair) is responsible for identical numb spots on each of my big toes, toward the inside/body center, next to the toenail. My Mom used to have these and says hers went away when she got better-fitting shoes.

I've read about the benefits of going barefoot or at least using minimalist ("barefoot") shoes on SOTT, so I'd like to go this route if possible. Does anyone have experience with this? Since I work in retail, I stand and walk on a flat surface for about eight hours on most days. It would be extra cool to have grounded shoes for Earthing, but those might look a bit too unusual for work (not a big deal since the floor isn't grounded anyhow).

My concerns:
  • Cost: This type of shoe is more expensive than what I'm used to. Is it worth the expense? If it saves my feet and improves my overall posture and health, yes.
  • Ripoffs: I don't want to end up with something that's in reality no better than a conventional shoe.
  • Retail: Is this type of footwear appropriate for standing on hard, flat floors for long periods of time? Is there any reason to go for a conventional shoe, maybe with inserts or whatever will eliminate or minimize harm?
  • Shopping online: I'm not sure I'll be able to find a local source for this type of footwear, and it could be risky since I can't try them on prior to buying.

I figure shoes are a relatively long-term investment, so it warrants getting some feedback on.

Thanks,
HowToBe

Your feet don't grow when you get older, they change shape.

What usually happens when wearing shoes for many years is that your foot looses it's arch and flattens out - hence you need bigger shoes. This also creates pressure points and numbness.

One way to address this is to retrain a correct shape and foot mechanics, which takes time and discipline. There is a Swiss guy by the name of Christian Larsen, together with French physiotherapist Yolante Deswarte, who have developped such a program called Spiraldynamik(T). Most of the information is in German, but there are a few resources in English.
See here.

Another way is to go the an orthopedist and have him fit you out with a customised insole, that should take care of the numb spots.

Another way is to buy MBT shoes, they look ugly, but can be quite successful, as they provide a dynamic stance.

Hope this helps.


I suffered from very serious back problems for 10 years and during that process also looked into pros and cons of different shoes and how to walk and sit to alleviate the pain. I used the MBT shoes for a couple of years and in my experience they do give short term relief due to the way that you roll over the sole of the foot when you walk. However, there's also a back side to them. When you walk you're supposed to end the step with pressure on the front of the foot and on the big toe. There are accupressure points that get stimulated as you take every step and that's one of the reasons why barefoot walking using Five-Fingers are beneficial. However, as we're used to wearing shoes with a lot of cushioning we often walk and stand the wrong way so we're not really fit to walk and stand naturally. What I used to do and what I think is often the case, is that we stand with locked joints - particularly locked knees which leads to a locked pelvis and all the pressure from the weight of the torso being born by the pelvis. This can lead to lower back problems. Therefore, if you use the MBT shoes for an hour or two per day, you'll get the benefits from them that they promise but if you use them all the time, it's like becoming dependent getting relief rather than focusing on the cause of the problem.

Therefore, I'd recommend also focusing on learning how to stand the right way. There are many methods that teach you that. Personally I used a technique called I-Chuan, which is a form of QiGong. The basic idea is that it's a lot better for your muscles to carry your body weight that your joints. The way to do this is to stand with your feet parallel to each other at the same width as your shoulders. Tilt the weight a little forward so that more weight is on your toes than on your heels and unlock the knees by bending them a tiny bit. In this position it's normal to tilt your pelvis backwards because it feels unnatural. Actually it's the opposite as this locks the pelvis but tilting the pelvis backwards reduces the strain on the muscles so it feels easier. The way to release the pelvis is to contract your PC muscle (the one between your anus and your testicles, if you're a man, or the muscle you use when you want to stop the stream of urin) just a little bit. That'll release you pelvis and the weight is carried by the thighs. This is similar to the basic stance of TaiChi called Wu Chi with a little more straight legs. It takes a little getting used to as the thighs work more than they normally do when we stand but it results in a lot less strain on the body. I highly recommend learning how to stand the right way.

There are also other techniques, such as the Alexander Technique.

These are just my perspectives based on my experience, FWIW.
 
Since this is relevant, I just thought I'd add it here in case it helps anyone (including me ;) ):

Mr. Scott said:
Anybody looking for excellent workboots, go here: _http://www.drmartens.com/uk/Industrial-Boots/Dr-Martens-Forge-St-Boot/p/14708999

They have a USA site, as well.

These boots have a steel toe, puncture-resistant and anti-slip sole, are water resistant, and anti-static.

Despite the fact that they are naturally a bit heavier, they are the only work shoes I have ever worn where my feet don't hurt even after days of working in them (and my feet are always the first thing to hurt, followed closely by my fingers/hands).
 
When I was a working man, I would wear leather shoes, but now I'm retired, it is generally bare feet or thongs :-)
Only today I bought a couple of pairs of Cougar brand 'runners' with velcro straps for general use ( I like the wide soles to fit my wide feet), but if I go with my mate to his farm I will take working boots.
He has snakes out there!
 
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