Carlos Castenada - Enigma of a sorcerer

[D69]

I just watched that movie.
There are testimonies of his closest co-workers and practitioners.
To be honest I don't know what to think about it.
Weird movie. I had an impression that background images are manipulating my overall view :/
Anybody watched it already ?

 

[shellycheval]

I have not, but I read "The Sorcerer's Apprentice: My Life With Carlos Castaneda" By Amy Wallace. It is a "insider-tell all" that clearly intends to give a not too flattering view of Castaneda and some of the apparently dysfunctional social dynamics going on in his personal life. Interesting to a point, but the book becomes repetitive, too shallow, and boring--needs editing to tighten it up and eliminate some of the unnecessary details. But, I think it is a useful book to help us see that good teachers with important messages are still human and remain STS
(I originally mistakenly wrote STO when I meant STS--this is a modification I made after Corto M. and Anart's feedback)
as long as they are in 3D. Books like this, while they are suspect due to the author's own biases, help check the tendency toward hero-worship that can happen when we greatly admire the teachings or talents of a person.

I will be interested to see this film and get back to you--thanks for the reference.
shellycheval

 

[Z...]

But, I think it is a useful book to help us see that good teachers with important messages are still human and remain STO as long as they are in 3D.

It seems to me you wanted to say STS here, not STO ;)

 

[shellycheval]

Yes--Thank You Corto.
Most definitely I intended to say STS--I do not know whether this error was made due to haste, inattention to detail, some trickster in the mind, or, most likely, all of the above.

A question for the Monitors if you please--should I edit my post for clarity or let it stand and let the clarity come from reading Corto's correction and my reply?

shellycheval

 

[anart]

Yes--Thank You Corto.
Most definitely I intended to say STS--I do not know whether this error was made due to haste, inattention to detail, some trickster in the mind, or, most likely, all of the above.

A question for the Monitors if you please--should I edit my post for clarity or let it stand and let the clarity come from reading Corto's correction and my reply?

shellycheval

I see no reason not to change it. The quote in Corto's post will explain why he wrote what he did.

 

[Turgon]

I saw this documentary last year and was a bit taken aback by it as well. I remember in Fire From Within, don Juan commenting to Carlos that he has a lot of tendencies similar to la Catalina, who was a companion of the Nagual Julian. I couldn't find the quote where he specifically said that, but I just re-read the chapter 'The Nagual Julian' to see and there are clear distinct differences between the teaching methods of don Juan, who goes on to explain, and help understand through a long, gradual process, and Julian, who from the gist of it, seems to have manipulated and controlled other's around him, stalking, in order to 'help' others.

Don Juan said there were two methods of teaching among seers. He was familiar with both of them. He preferred the one that called for explaining everything and letting the other person know the course of action beforehand. It was a system that fostered freedom, choice and understanding. His benefactors method (Nagual Julian), on the other hand, was more coercive and did not allow for choice or understanding. It's great advantage was that it forced warrios to live the seers concepts directly with no intermediary elucidation.

I wonder if this was also a case of Carlos seeing a lot of these tendencies within himself (therefore potentially creating the character Julian as an expression of this aspect of himself, yet continuing to act in ways that were manipulative in nature).

Edit - Found the quotes

There are very strange points in common between the nagual Julian and you, he said. Genaro is just trying to figure out if you're aware of it.

...But the nagual Julian was quite different, "Genaro went on, giving me a friendly shove. "I'd say that he jealously guarded strange secrets in his left side, just like you. Wouldn't you say so?" He asked don Juan.

... Be that as it may, warriors are in the world to train themselves to be unbiased witnesses, so as to understand the mystery of ourselves and relish the exultation of finding what we really are. This is the highest of the new seer's goals. And not every warrior attains it. We believe that the nagual Julian didn't attain it. He was waylaid, and so was Catalina.

But, I think it is a useful book to help us see that good teachers with important messages are still human and remain STO as long as they are in 3D.

 

[IronFloyd]

I have not, but I read "The Sorcerer's Apprentice: My Life With Carlos Castaneda" By Amy Wallace. It is a "insider-tell all" that clearly intends to give a not too flattering view of Castaneda and some of the apparently dysfunctional social dynamics going on in his personal life. Interesting to a point, but the book becomes repetitive, too shallow, and boring--needs editing to tighten it up and eliminate some of the unnecessary details. But, I think it is a useful book to help us see that good teachers with important messages are still human and remain STO as long as they are in 3D. Books like this, while they are suspect due to the author's own biases, help check the tendency toward hero-worship that can happen when we greatly admire the teachings or talents of a person.

I will be interested to see this film and get back to you--thanks for the reference.
shellycheval

Hi shellycheval

First, sorry about my "english"...

I think it's a very good point you make about that book, and I also read that book ... But luckily I did it after reading all Castaneda´s books, Taisha Abelar (The Sorcerer's Crossing: A Woman's Journey) and Florinda Donner ... I also participated in seminars and practiced for several years "Tensegrity". In addition I met many people closely linked to the "Intent" of Don Juan and Castaneda in Buenos Aires and in different circumstances, and I can not say more than what there is impeccable smell and feel behind the attempt to Don Juan and Castaneda and not only Castaneda and don Juan, somehow all those we have joined this effort too. I think same thing happens to Laura that maybe without knowing her personally we feel the fibers of our intuition that the sinlessness and the narrowing gap between what she says and what she does, and that is what is helping to move the entire this along with all "us".

Curiously the main references that we have are Castaneda or Gudjieff which is obviously for some reason but unfortunately many people the first thing they do is follow the easy way to read a book like Amy Wallace in order to decide whether to go or not a "real guru" or a "false guru" like don Juan or Castaneda when more precisely what is emphasized that each path is purely personal and the fruit of sinlessness or the proper use of the Energy ... of truth regarding this issue in my opinion is much better to read the original information (not just the first books which are due mostly to the "ruse" and humor of don Juan, which is very clear in recent books such as "The Active Side of Infinity") instead of authors who demonstrated in their lives just want to excel speaking falsehoods, just as there are people who speak against the QFS or The Cassiopaea Experiment and reviled essencial information that has certainly helped people to find their own way...