Cassiopaean's intentions with respect to move from 3rd density to 4th density

[AmyB]

I was just wondering...from the information provided by the C's indicating that the 4th density STS's are waiting for us to move to 4th density in order to rule us since they don't want to (or can't) physically move here to 3rd density, how do we know the C's aren't helping these STS's by encouraging our awakening to ascend to the 4th density? I realize this question may cause a stir and believe me it is not my intent. I have read most of the material provided by the C's and find it extremely interesting however I do think we should ask ourselves this question...

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

Hi Amy, I think you're forgetting that the C's also said that 4th density already rule/own us here now, and use us as their crop to cultivate and feed on as they please. Just because they are not here physically (and that too is not exactly accurate, supposedly they have bases and other ways to remain here physically but in 4th density bubbles) does not mean they are not in control.

So going to 4th density would supposedly be the only way to be on a "level playing field" - they'd try to rule us there just like they already rule us here, but we'd be able to do something about it when we're on their level. But from where we are now, we can't do anything about it any more than a cow can stop us from controlling its world. And please note that we do not hang out at the pasture with the cows either in "their world", and yet we still have full control over their existence and use them as food.

Hope that clarifies it! And if you have not already done so, I would highly recommend reading the Wave and the Adventure series on cassiopaea.org because if you were reading the sessions by themselves, you were missing all the vital context to help understand them.

Remember that knowledge protects - encouraging you to seek knowledge and become more aware of yourself and the world you live in is never going to be detrimental to you or make you more vulnerable in any way, only the opposite. It's like telling a cow that if it goes to 3rd density, other humans will try to "rule it" (think governments and psychopaths). Does this mean a cow should remain a cow forever because as a human it will have to face attempts at control by other humans? Of course not! As a cow it is infinitely more vulnerable to control and won't even be aware of it or have any possibility of stopping it. Just because humans have no desire to share the same environment as a cow has absolutely no bearing on whether we can control the cow or not - because we do.

So greater knowledge and awareness can only benefit, it will give you the opportunity to protect yourself from anything and actually be aware of control that you didn't even know was there before.

 

[PepperFritz]

Hello Amy:

Have you read Laura's Wave series yet, as well as her book Adventures With Cassiopaea? I think you will find your questions/concerns addressed in those works, as well as in the Cassiopaea FAQ featured on the www.Cassiopaea.org site. As stated there, those involved in the Cassiopaean Experiment recognize the necessity of "believing nothing and ACTING as though EVERYTHING is misleading, gathering data from all quarters, and then making the most INFORMED choice possible with full realization that it may be in error! It is in this sense that we assess the Cassiopaean Transmissions as simply raw data that requires research and intense scrutiny in order to determine its validity and the noise to signal ratio".

 

[Franco]

How do you validate information about higher densities then?

And if we can't validate this information, do we just then ignore the information?

I guess mostly what the C's have said about 4th density is the information given is to prepare you for if/when you arrive that you are not so shocked/confused.

But the fact remains how do you validate other density information right here and now as 4th - 6th density ties heavily into the C's information?

At what point do you just take the information on trust with the only data being that it makes sense, is non contradictory and coming from a source which you trust(And have read Lauras context on the information)?

Afaik, 4th density or any density which is a term that has mostly been described in recent chanelled material can not be verified can it?

If it exists then maybe it is not useful to understand it much till you get there, the closest thing i have read to a description of 4th density is Lauras mirror session.

I guess what i am getting at is at what point do you draw a line between the "spiritual" and "physical" aspects of life, would science ever touch the subject or must everything always be physicalised?

So without real data, i guess what i am talking about is faith in a sense and how if/should it play a role in life.

C's on faith:

A: Indeed. It includes adding everything to one's being that is desirable. And also, when you keep invoking the light, as you do, truly understand that the light is knowledge. That is the knowledge which is at the core of all
existence. And being at the core of all existence it provides protection from every form of negativity in existence. Light is everything and everything is knowledge and knowledge is everything. You are doing extremely well in acquiring of knowledge. Now all you need is the faith and realization that acquiring of knowledge is all you need.

Q: (L) I just want to be sure that the source that I am acquiring the knowledge from is not a deceptive source.

A: If you simply have faith, no knowledge that you could possibly acquire could possibly be false because there is no such thing. Anyone or anything that tries to give you false knowledge, false information, will fail. The
very material substance that the knowledge takes on, since it is at the root of all existence, will protect you from absorption of false information which is not knowledge. There is no need to fear the absorption of false
information when you are simply openly seeking to acquire knowledge. And knowledge forms the protection -- all the protection you could ever need.

Q: (L) How did this sublime being, the Christ, dwell in a human body?

A: Natural process caused by supremely pure faith and thought.

Q: (L) Now, you said in an earlier session that you were making financial arrangements for us. Well, I am not putting any weight or pressure on that, but, does that have anything to do with M** T** and referrals for
hypnosis?

A: Maybe. Don't be anticipatory. Faith, dear.

Q: (L) Well, I have a lot of things I need to do. How am I going to pay for the conference, for example?

A: Faith. Time to say goodnight.

Q: (L) Are we going to get any positive responses?

A: Yes. We direct you as long as you have faith in us, as we are you! Attack is always designed to destroy that faith, either directly or indirectly. Think of the instances, to see if there is a familiar pattern to the "root."

Q: (L) So, attack is always directed at undermining our faith.

A: In a roundabout way.

A: You have, in fact, advised others who have complained about similar situations, that there is no need to worry, because, as you put it, "the Lord will provide." And if, indeed, you do have faith in this very simple
principle, why then would your faith deviate at this particular point?

Q: (L) Ark also wants to ask... well, his problem is faith, as he said it to me.

A: Faith comes also from knowledge, and as we have stated before... False knowledge is worse than no knowledge at all!!!!!

Q: (L) Well it was really, really quite outstanding, and it had quite outstanding results. I'm impressed all the heck and back, so... I don't know what to say... (T) Genuflect! (L) Yes! Several times! So, anything further on
that?

A: Any more questions of faith?

Q: (L) No, I don't think so! I think I'd be crazy if I had any! (T) I think you've gotten more than enough feedback on that. (L) Very quickly, let me ask for A** (Daughter). We have been discussing whether she should,
or should not, go to school. I support her either way. There are valid reasons for both. She asked me to ask you guys if you would give her a little guidance on the school issue, and she is open to anything that you may
suggest.

So these are just some examples on comments made about faith, I am specifically talking about faith in the information given by the C's to which we can not verify but may be important if it is true.

If we do not have faith in the C's material being mostly true ignoring distortion and various moles in the group, arn't we crazy to spend so much time learning and reading this information?

I completely agree with the need to be objective and also that it would be impossible to verify all this information without a group, i just think it would be a lie to say i don't take a lot of the information in the transcripts and the wave series as fact or closest to it i can get at this point in time.

Also it would be a lie to say i don't take a lot of information from Lauras own research as truth or close to it most of the time, because as much as i enjoy research there is no way i can verify everything myself, if i think something is off, sure i will go do my own research but i "trust" Lauras research capability because of my observation of herself and her work over many years.

So any comments appreciated on what role faith should/does and is playing in the work.

Also note i analysed the C's material a lot, looking for errors, inconsistencies, contradictions and general nonsense and "compared" to other channeled information i found it surprisingly low which is part of the reason i continued for the last 5 years reading and analysing it.

Thanks

Franco

 

[PepperFritz]

At what point do you just take the information on trust ....
i guess what i am talking about is faith in a sense....

Well, speaking for myself, I don't accept any of the Cassiopaean material on "trust" or "faith". I test and verify where I am able to, and otherwise consider the material a "working hypothesis" only, until such time as new data becomes available.

C's on faith:

I don't think think that the C's are suggesting that we accept them and/or what they (or Laura) tell us "on faith", or that we have "trust" and "faith" in them and their intentions. Rather, I think they are suggesting that we have faith in OURSELVES, in the purity of intention behind our quest for Knowledge (which cannot lead us astray), and in the protection that Knowledge provides.

 

[Laura]

Think: "working hypothesis" and that, only based on the high rate of "good information." And with a working hypothesis, you are constantly alert and gathering data/observations. You aren't attached to it and can let it go at any moment.

Then, of course, there is reason and reflection... we should not sell ourselves short, as the Cs repeatedly point out, but rather use our "god-given abilities," i.e. our minds.

Finally, there is mathematics and physics which tends to support much of what the Cs say, not to mention some ancient ideas/teachings.

If anybody has a better explanation for how things are or why, I'll be happy to look at it but it must stand up to reason, be supported by math and, so on.

 

[obyvatel]

So any comments appreciated on what role faith should/does and is playing in the work.

Hi Franco,
The cassiopaea glossary defines the Work as the "ensemble of 4th Way practices introduced to the public by Gurdjieff." As far as I understand this, the aim of the Work is to realize that man is asleep and work towards waking up and subsequently becoming Man 4 . The process starts with observing and understanding the source of one's programs which cause mechanical reactions. In this context, the information from various sources can be taken as a hypotheses and can be "verified" individually and within a group/network through research as stated in PepperFritz's post. This process of waking up is very painful in practice. So perhaps in order to progress on this path, some faith is required. For me personally, it is the faith in the core concepts of the Work that gives me the strength to continue. As personal and group experiences continue to verify the information provided by the sources (C's, G, M etc), knowledge and faith are perhaps added together making it possible to progress further.
Not all information can be verified - specially ones related to higher densities (C's), the entire cosmology of 4th way etc. Any information related to these topics can be treated like working hypotheses as PepperFritz suggested, but till we ( as individuals or a group) are in a position to experience/verify/understand, it cannot become knowledge. There are certain things that Castaneda's Don Juan called "unknowable" at our level and too much speculation on such topics can rob us of energy making us confused and does not serve any useful purpose with regards to the goal of waking up. Having a goal and being aware of it at all times can perhaps help in determining how much energy to expend to prove/disprove a particular piece of information.
FWIW
Best regards

 

[Oxajil]

Re: Cassiopaean's intentions with respect to move from 3rd density to 4th densit

And what Ark said here also helped me being more "critical":

There is just one simple reason to besbelieve us. The reason is: do not believe anything. Check everything, check and re-check, and even if it all seems alright, still keep doubts in your mind.

and here:

There is an easy but powerful remedy. Namely to doubt everything, in particular to put in doubt your own doubts and to doubt those who try to instill doubts in you.

Then, we doubt everything, you just assign levels to your doubts, and you do it consciously, taking into account all that you know. Then, every time you learn more, you re-label all your doubts.

 

[Franco]

Hello,

All good advice.

Yes i think it's time for me to venture into the "Work" books as i've spent most of my time with the C's transcripts and all of Lauras books in the last 5 years or so.

It's so much information and i had to read it multiple times, though i should probably expand my learning into Gurdjieff and other variations of the Work now.

Time to order some more books.

 

[Mountain Crown]

One principle of evaluating information comes to mind: "A kingdom divided cannot stand."

 

[AmyB]

SAO,

Thanks for your reply, I am reading The Wave series, I'm up to book three although I never read The Adventure series. I do in fact agree. I don't know where that thought came from, I just had to ask for anybody else's opinion. Besides, I've seen enough (litterally) to know that what the C's have said is true although I guess the unknown is always daunting. Since the STS's on 4th only feed on negative energy and not on physical beings, I suspect that on 4th density, we will be able to stand our ground if we have full emotional and thought control so that we cannot lose energy without choosing to do so through free will. Thanks again. :)

 

[AmyB]

I agree with your quote Mountain Crow,

"A kingdom divided cannot stand."

, I remember the reference in The Wave and it is true.
Thanks all, was very helpful.

 

[nicklebleu]

A short notice on faith ...

As far as I understand, the C's don't ask us to have faith in them. Or, as Ark has said, don't believe anything, check everything and discard it any moment if the hypothesis proves to be wrong. So here we are talking about knowledge - and, what follows from it eventually: understanding. That's the scientific approach.

Faith is especially mentioned by the C's in the context of "knowledge is all the protection you will ever need" - to have faith in that statement. Think about it - all our life we have been led to believe that "we are in charge", that we can control our destiny by doing this or avoiding that, by being "a good person" maybe, by being "nice", by learing this or that, by acquiring this or that skill, by hoarding food and building bomb shelters ... in short by trying to handle external influences. The suggestion of the C's that all this is unnecessary and completely useless is for me the most difficult thing to incorporate.

To just seek knowledge, calmly and undisturbed, for the sake of it, without "hidden" agenda, without precise goal is a huge leap of faith indeed!

 

[GMFaudio]

Faith is especially mentioned by the C's in the context of "knowledge is all the protection you will ever need" - to have faith in that statement. Think about it - all our life we have been led to believe that "we are in charge", that we can control our destiny by doing this or avoiding that, by being "a good person" maybe, by being "nice", by learing this or that, by acquiring this or that skill, by hoarding food and building bomb shelters ... in short by trying to handle external influences. The suggestion of the C's that all this is unnecessary and completely useless is for me the most difficult thing to incorporate.

This is an excellent point. Having been taught to act or respond in a certain way, by which deep rooted programs have been enstilled within me, sometimes my natural reaction to reading some of the C's material is to "prepare" on an external level, i.e. moving somewhere safer, protecting the physical self from an impending event.

What I am learning more and more as I am reading through the material, the C's and others, is that the physical body is not important, and the gathering of true knowledge, through long and sometimes exhausting searching, is what is truly important. When reading over the C's transcripts, I felt that information coming through was monumental, but was a road map of some sorts to knowledge from other sources that would be empactful as well. In contrast, reading through The Wave Series made the understanding easier because I was A) reading the material in the transcripts over again and B) the material was much more organized and included the context in which the sessions were done in. I

feel that the transcripts only provide one piece of an enormous puzzle as well. I also felt that when I originally read the transcripts, it took the timeframe in which they were recorded for granted. I could read through several months of sessions in one sitting. I think by doing that, I brushed over some really important information. Laura and others at the time of the session had some time to analyze and digest the raw data coming through before going back for another session. Ultimately, I feel that the C's material in transcript form provides a good road map for more questions that should be looked at critically, and they strongly encourage further development via other sources such as Castaneda, Gurdjieff, and many others.

I am still very much a novice, unlike many other great teachers on this forum, by which are helping me with my questions too! :D