Cavities and children

[mcb]

It came back to me -- Loma Linda. Here is one reference from Wikipedia. Also, one of the presenters in the Healthy Mouth Summit (that I linked earlier) remarked that the discoveries made by Leonora in his department at Loma Linda were ignored by the dental school at the same institution.

Some excerpts from the Wikipedia entry:

Research Contributions

Gonadotropic hormones. Based on his doctoral studies and subsequent research fellowship, John Leonora initially intended to devote his career to the investigation of gonadotropic hormones.

Dentinal fluid transport. One day he received a telephone call from Dr. Ralph R. Steinman, a dental colleague, who had been studying the flow of dentinal fluid in rats from the odontoblasts in the dental pulp through the dentin using an intraperitoneal injection of the fluorescent dye, acriflavine hydrochloride. He found that in the teeth of rats fed a cariogenic diet the flow of dentinal fluid was markedly reduced. He wondered if some systemic mechanism was involved in this impairment and so decided to contact Dr. John Leonora, as an endocrinologist.

Hypothalamus. This was the beginning of a decades-long collaborative journey. John Leonora first suggested that none of the recognized hormones were plausible candidates for regulating dentinal flow transport (DFT), but that the hypothalamus might well be an alternative hormonal source. Quickly they found that infusing rats with a crude extract from rabbit hypothalami triggered increased DFT activity. This, however, raised the question whether the hypothalamic factor had a direct effect on the teeth or rather had an indirect effect characteristic of other hypothalamic hormones.

Parotid hormone. Assuming that the hypothalamic factor was mediated through one of the major salivary glands, they found that this factor was biologically active when administered to rats with intact parotid glands but was wholly ineffective in rats that had the parotid glands removed. There was no involvement of the other salivary glands. They concluded that the direct regulation of DFT was therefore secreted by the parotid glands and this endocrine function was controlled by the hypothalamus.

...

Suppressive effect of sucrose. Then the research focused on the mechanism by which dietary sucrose suppressed the DFT. Initial studies suggested that the sucrose suppressed the secretion of the parotid hormone. Further studies, however, showed that the sucrose effect occurred indirectly by inhibiting secretion of the hypothalamic parotid hormone releasing factor. Then it was found that the sucrose effect could be effectively reversed by the infusion of the compound carbamyl phosphate through the internal carotid artery. This confirmed that the site of action was within the central nervous system—namely the hypothalamus.

There is more in the article, and this article is just one reference.

 

[Adaryn]

It was a homeopathic preparation (little tablets).
On the dark glass bottle was written 'The 12 Schüssler salts in D6' and they were listed (Calc. phos - Calc. sulf. - Calc. fluor - ferrum phos. - Kali mur. - Kali phos. - Kali sulf. - Magn. phos.- Natr.mur. - Natr.phos. - Natr. sulf - Silicea in D6).

Do you have the name of that 12 mineral salt complex in French, and can you find it online? They sell several bottles with different numbers on Amazon, but with only 1 mineral salt in each. Thanks!
ADD: we already tried these, from Weleda: _http://www.weleda.fr/?id=1282 (in Fr only)

 

[Mrs.Tigersoap]

Do you have the name of that 12 mineral salt complex in French, and can you find it online? They sell several bottles with different numbers on Amazon, but with only 1 mineral salt in each. Thanks!
ADD: we already tried these, from Weleda: _http://www.weleda.fr/?id=1282 (in Fr only)

We have a homeopathic pharmacist nearby and they make their own preparations. They are the ones preparing them (it's their brand on the bottle). Do you have access to a homeopathic pharmacist who can prepare stuff on demand? Because then he can make them for you. Mine knew exactly what I was talking about directly, so I guess it's well-known.

Let me know if you have trouble getting them.

Yes, that Weleda stuff had also been recommended by the holistic dentist but they were unavailable in Belgium, for some reason.

 

[mcb]

My 3 year old has cavities on her molars. What can we do about this? I am hoping to find an alternative to dentist drilling. The 3 year old is very shy around strangers, and I think dentist drilling would likely be a very bad experience for her.

We tried brushing her teeth with baking soda twice, but she hated it. I supposed we will try again if you think it will help.

I am in the process of ordering non-gmo birch xylitol (brand Smart Sweet) to replace all sugar in the home. I am open to other methods to improve her teeth and health. All suggestions and help welcome!

With regard to the post on Sara Pope's blog mentioned earlier...
(_http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/toddlers-severe-tooth-decay-halted-in-only-5-days/)

The woman in the video is endorsing the book "Cure Tooth Decay" by Rami Nagel. This book is also mentioned here (Laura), here, here, and here in the forum.

I am not endorsing the book myself. I do think these people could be on to something even if they don't understand exactly what.

 

[Adaryn]

We have a homeopathic pharmacist nearby and they make their own preparations. They are the ones preparing them (it's their brand on the bottle). Do you have access to a homeopathic pharmacist who can prepare stuff on demand? Because then he can make them for you. Mine knew exactly what I was talking about directly, so I guess it's well-known.

I do know one, yeah. I'm gonna check with them. Thanks Mrs T :)

 

[hlat]

My spouse and I are pleasantly surprised by all the responses in just a day and a half. Thank you, everyone!

My child's doctor was also my spouse's doctor as a child, and we have a good opinion of the doctor. The doctor recommended cod liver oil for my spouse a long time ago. My child is very tall for her age, around the 95th percentile for height, though the height is not a spurt but consistently tall. Based on that and the responses from everyone, we have decided to give our child Hyland Bioplasma (the salt) and Blue Ice Royal Butter Oil / Fermented Cod Liver Oil Blend Capsules.

I am already on a heavy animal meat/fat diet and very light carbs. However, the rest of the family is not there yet. They generally have not been taking the chicken broth and upcoming beef marrow broth. I am having a difficult time getting my children to eat meat. Thank god they both like bacon. Sometimes I think if it wasn't for my efforts, they would not be eating any meat at all.

I welcome more advice, suggestions, input, reprimands. My child says I love happy face and wants me to put one in. She chose that one.

 

[HifromGrace]

That makes a ton of sense about the growth spurt and tooth demineralization - reminds me of how some women's teeth get worse, fillings fall out, during pregnancy… the fetus getting dibs on minerals!

The bone broth is also great for teeth! I feel that we've had great luck with making more room for my son's new teeth (he's 6 and is just starting on losing his baby teeth). This winter I was on a mission to include more bone broth into his diet and I did notice that his new tooth started to have more room to grow into and his other teeth straightened (they aren’t very crooked anyway).

It's just heading into summer here now and he was even asking for broth ice cubes into his juice, LOL! I've been doing that since he was a toddler. And now he pretty much knows that's the only way he'll pry juice out of my cold dead hands (I'm very, very stingy about the sweets with him).

But I have to say, I know people/kids who have abysmal diets and have a nice wide jaw with space for teeth, so I don't know what to say on that account, my anticdotal story isn't "proof" or anything, but it is working for our family.


Another general point I wanted to bring up from observation and speaking to a close friend who happens to be a dentist - is that she was taught in dental school that kids shouldn't brush their teeth on their own until they can write in cursive (which, humorously enough, is being phased out of the schools!) - before that, they simply do not have enough fine motor skill control to do it properly.

Personally, something that I noticed, is that kids tend to have cavities in molars on one side of their mouth, and for me, that begged the question of if it's a right-hand/left-hand thing that determines the side of the jaw with cavities. My friend believes that is correct, they just brush where it’s easiest and most parents stop monitoring the brushing when they are toddlers.

I know this sounds nuts, but I still brush my kid's teeth at night - I too have a hideous amount of dental work from when I was little ("she'll open her mouth when it hurts enough!" was the sad parenting style they adhered to – FYI, they have a lot of dentists now that are children’s specialists and just put in a movie, “smarter not harder” if you ask me!).

The reason I never stopped brushing his teeth is because I'm honest with myself in that I don't have the patience to coach him on brushing (directing, encouraging, cajoling, on & on – whereas my husband is simply a champ about that stuff and it doesn’t turn into a power play). My son does brush on his own in the mornings. But I don’t feel that he is actually able to do a decent job about getting all the sides of his teeth yet, he’s tired and wiggly at night and if I just use a timer, he simply brushes the same front spot over and over.

So take this with a grain of salt – and, to everyone else, I appreciate the additional dental info & tips!!

 

[hlat]

My child has been taking the Hyland Bioplasma (the salt) fine. They are tiny pills, and she just chews them up and swallows them.

The problem is the Blue Ice Royal Butter Oil / Fermented Cod Liver Oil Blend Capsules. The capsule pill is large for an adult. It cannot be swallowed by a child. She chewed it, and did not like the taste of it. So it defeats the whole purpose of getting cod liver oil in capsule form. Does anyone have any suggestions on this? If I cannot figure out a way for her to take them, I'll take the capsules myself instead of letting them go to waste.

I contacted a dentist about Icon resin filling, and he mentioned something about a laser machine instead. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with something like that? I had never heard of laser dentistry.

 

[Hildegarda]

The capsule pill is large for an adult. It cannot be swallowed by a child. She chewed it, and did not like the taste of it. So it defeats the whole purpose of getting cod liver oil in capsule form. Does anyone have any suggestions on this?

I squeeze the capsules into a teaspoon and give it to the child. you can dilute it with a bit of broth. it's nasty but it goes down.

a laser machine instead. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with something like that? I had never heard of laser dentistry.

our dentist uses a laser. it is quieter than the regular machine and doesn't require anesthesia, as the laser numbs the tooth. in my mind, this is a huge plus, no point exposing the child to more drugs especially if you are concerned about any allergic reactions. overall a very positive experience.

 

[Olesya]

The capsule pill is large for an adult. It cannot be swallowed by a child. She chewed it, and did not like the taste of it. So it defeats the whole purpose of getting cod liver oil in capsule form. Does anyone have any suggestions on this?

I squeeze the capsules into a teaspoon and give it to the child. you can dilute it with a bit of broth. it's nasty but it goes down.

a laser machine instead. Anyone have any thoughts or experience with something like that? I had never heard of laser dentistry.

our dentist uses a laser. it is quieter than the regular machine and doesn't require anesthesia, as the laser numbs the tooth. in my mind, this is a huge plus, no point exposing the child to more drugs especially if you are concerned about any allergic reactions. overall a very positive experience.

My daughter is 7,5 now, and she also had cavities. We went to the dentist 6 month ago. I think it was my mistake trying to exclude sugar (she ate mostly honey), gluten and casein too slowly from her diet. Although she didn't eat them al the time, but when she was younger, I allowed her to eat it once in a while. Apparently, she's very sensitive to these kind of ingredients.

She takes Carlson for kids "The Very Finest Fish Oil", and she likes it! You can buy it here : _http://www.iherb.com/Carlson-Labs-The-Very-Finest-Fish-Oil-For-Kids-Orange-6-7-fl-oz-200-ml/12268?utm_medium=cse&utm_source=pricegrabber or in other place on the Internet. I'm not sure now, if it's OK? Or fermented oil would be preferable?

My daughter's experience with laser treatment wasn't as good as described by Hildegarda. The lasers option was offered by my daughter's dentist for small cavities. For deep cavities (she had 2), it was first regular drill and laser later. With laser treatment, she was very tense and scared, but not with regular drilling. The drilling is actually not that loud. Unfortunately, I only figured out to ask her what she prefers on our second visit. She opted for regular drilling and with no anesthesia. It was much better. She was more relaxed. Probably her cavities weren't that deep?

The dentist was very attentive. He asked her to give him a signal when she wanted him to stop. I also was sitting with her massaging her feet slightly, because I noticed that her feet were the most tense part of her body during the treatment. I think it helped to relax her.

hlat, I wish you good luck, and that your daughter will have as easy experience with her treatment as possible.

Thank you, Mrs. Tigersoap, for the info on homeopathic remedy. My daughter eats meat/bone broth, but not as often that I would like, and that's probably not enough for her.

 

[mcb]

I'm sorry I don't have more details, but the feedback I have been getting from a number of health bloggers/podcasters is that ordinary fish/cod liver oil is not so great due to the processing and may actually represent a potential issue itself. Some do recommend fermented cod liver oil instead; some don't. It's nasty stuff for sure, but perhaps well worth trying.

A number of speakers at the Healthy Mouth Summit (that I mentioned earlier) commented negatively about laser dentistry. I don't recall what they said. I have not finished listening to all the speakers, however, and I if I hear any more about it I can relay that.

 

[Olesya]

Thank you Megan. I will look into pros and cons of fermented fish oil vs. a regular kind. Getting my daughter to drink that is a whole other issue! I'll try to use Hildegarda's advise diluting it with a little bit of broth. Will see. Thank you Hildegarda.

 

[mcb]

Thank you Megan. I will look into pros and cons of fermented fish oil vs. a regular kind. Getting my daughter to drink that is a whole other issue! I'll try to use Hildegarda's advise diluting it with a little bit of broth. Will see. Thank you Hildegarda.

Sarah Pope has some ideas in the video at _http://www.greenpasture.org/public/FAQ/index.cfm. There is also an audio link just above the video that might be more useful for very young children.

 

[Olesya]

Thank you Megan. I will look into pros and cons of fermented fish oil vs. a regular kind. Getting my daughter to drink that is a whole other issue! I'll try to use Hildegarda's advise diluting it with a little bit of broth. Will see. Thank you Hildegarda.

Sarah Pope has some ideas in the video at _http://www.greenpasture.org/public/FAQ/index.cfm. There is also an audio link just above the video that might be more useful for very young children.

Thank you, Megan, for looking into it further. Very much appreciated. I'll watch it it later on.

 

[hlat]

We had a family friend, an oral surgeon, take a look, and he didn't think the cavities looked bad. But he said it is hard to know without xrays.

I'm planning on saying no to xrays of my daughter. I'm just double checking with the forum to make sure it is a good idea to refuse xrays. I've read about recent studies linking dental xrays to cancer, and it seems the danger is higher for children. Thanks.