Chernobyl

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This is a link to a website showing some very haunting photographs of Chernobyl, post the atomic plant disaster.

http://www.kiddofspeed.com/default.htm

If the link doesn't work from this message (I just copied it into here), try a copy and paste into the address bar, or Google: 'Chernobyl Elena'.

Elena is an interesting Russian/Ukrainian(?) lady, who seems to roam around on a powerful motorbike taking photographs that have a strangely numinous 'impact.' My view anyway.

She is down to earth though. I love her comment under one of her photographs of a 'road-blocked' empty road in a place where there is no traffic:

"The roads are blocked for cars, but not for motorcycles. Good girls go to heaven. Bad ones go to hell. And girls on fast bikes go anywhere they want."

Seems to sum her up!

You can also link to her photographs of 'Kiev' from here (the link is in her home page called 'The Serpent's Wall') ... with emphasis on the still existent detritus from WW11 that Kiev bore the brunt of quite a lot of. Equally haunting. Food for thought in photographs of ancient 'pill-boxes' where the defenders bricked/walled themselves in, to die fighting the invading German army ... or of starvation when the food supplies ran out! The stupidity of mankind you may think ... but real heroism too.

Does man/woman find the greatest opportunity in the greatest of danger?

I found myself looking at the photographs for quite a long time.

I was going to post up some comments ... about warnings for a 'post-nuclear' age and things.

But I think the photo record, and Elena's often apropos comments, speak enough.

Strangely, I came away with a poignant feeling as to what wonderful beings we 'human beings' can be. How we struggle and writhe to shed our chrysalis skin and become what we seem to be impelled to be.

Maybe it IS important that we survive the coming times.

StarFraction
 
I remember seeing this site a while ago, the Chernobyl pics, when a friend showed me.

yeah, powerful stuff. I don't know quite what my reaction was - a bit of allsorts: it was a kind of mixture of the horror of what had happened there, plus a kind of awe at the wilderness of the place, plus some kind of seed of hope.
 
>yeah, powerful stuff. I don't know quite what my reaction was - a bit of allsorts: it was a kind of mixture of the horror of what had happened there, plus a kind of awe at the wilderness of the place, plus some kind of seed of hope.<

That's it exactly.

A range of emotion.

I don't think we can quite know what to make of such a happening.

It must have been awesomely eerie to ride through the landscape on a motorbike ... a real city of the dead ... a necropolis.

Did you see that Elena commented that they need to repair the 'sarcophagus' soon (i.e. the shield they built around the blown reactor), because it is crumbling?

Wonder if 'they' have done.

StarFraction
 
What really happened in Chernobyl is something I have wanted to know for a long time.
This is from a Larouche site and I am still wondering what is true in it:
http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.com/Articles%202004/Spring2004/Jaworowski_on_Chernobyl.pdf
remember that Larouche has an agenda and has been a longtime proponent on nuclear energy.

But also remember that believing mainstream press is always a mistake.


Here are some quotes of this article from Prof. Zbigniew Jaworowski.

Contrary to the scare stories about a nuclear wasteland, the region around Chernobyl most "contaminated" with radiation, is now a magnificent nature preserve, with abundant flora and fauna[...]

The following main lessonscan be deduced from this accident.
(1) Ionizing radiation killedonly a few, occupationally-exposed
people. Because of the rapid decay of short-lived radionuclides,
the Chernobyl fallout did not expose the general population
to harmful radiation doses. OnApril 26, 1986, in the area covered
by the dangerous radiation, near the burning reactor, the radiation
dose rate reached 1 Gray per hour. (After one year, it decreased
by a factor of about 3,000.) This area was limited to two patches,
totalling together about 0.5 square kilometer, in an uninhab-
ited location, and extending a distance of 1.8 kilometers from the
burning nuclear reactor.
Several hundred meters outside the 1 Gray isoline, the
dose rate dropped by 2 orders of magnitude, to a level of 0.01-
0.001 Gray per hour. This is a completely different situation
from the aftermath of a surface explosion of a 10 megaton
nuclear bomb; in that case, the 1-Gray-per-hour isoline can
reach a distance of 440 kilometers, and the lethal fallout can
cover tens of thousands of square kilometers, and endanger
the lives of millions of people.
(2) The reported excess of thyroid cancers in children and
adults who were exposed to Chernobyl fallout is not consistent
with the knowledge of the effects of medical use of io-
dine-131. The report of an "excess" appears to be an effect of
medical screening, and consists only of a small fraction of the
normal occult thyroid cancer incidence that occurs in populations
unexposed to iodine-131.
(3) Radionuclides were injected high into the stratosphere,
at least up to 15 kilometers altitude, which made
possible their long-distance migration in the entire Northern
Hemisphere, and a penetration over the Equator down to
the South Pole.18 With unique, extremely sophisticated radia-
tion-monitoring systems in place in all developed countries,
even the most tiny debris from the Chernobyl reactor was
easily detected all over the world. No such system exists
for any other potentially harmful environmental agent. Ironi-
cally, this excellent radiological monitoring capability ignited
the mass anxiety, with disastrous consequences in the
former Soviet Union, and the strangulation of nuclear energydevelopment elsewhere.
(4) Psychosomatic disorders and screening effects were
the only detectable health consequences among the general Radioiopopulation.
Fighting the panic and mass hysteria could be
regarded as the most important countermeasure to protect
the public against the effects of a similar accident, should it
occur again.
(5) This was the worst possible catastrophe: of a badly
constructed nuclear reactor; with a complete meltdown of the
reactor core; followed by ten days of completely free emission
of radionuclides into the atmosphere. Nothing worse could
happen. It resulted in a comparatively minute occupational
death toll-about half the death toll of each weekend's traffic
accidents in Poland, and tens or hundreds of times lower than
the number of deaths caused by many other industrial catas-
trophes. It is unlikely that any fatalities were caused by radia-
tion among the general population.
In centuries to come, the Chernobyl catastrophe will be
seen as a proof that nuclear power is a safe means of energy
production.


Prof. Zbigniew Jaworowski is the chairman of the Scientific
Council of the Central Laboratory for Radiological Protec-
tion in Warsaw. A multidisciplinary scientist, he has studied
pollution with radionuclides and heavy metals, and he has
served as chairman of the United Nations Scientific Committee
on the Effects of Atomic Radiation.
And here is another one source dicussing the Chernobyl accident.

AUSTRALASIAN RADIATION PROTECTION SOCIETY
August 4 2000 PRESS RELEASE

THE MYTHS OF CHERNOBYL

One of the most widespread myths of recent times is that the Chernobyl nuclear reactor accident in 1986 caused many thousands of extra cancer deaths in neighbouring regions, and that public health has been severely affected by exposure to radiation.

According to the latest report of the United Nation Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) neither of these beliefs is true. UNSCEAR recently approved its UNSCEAR 2000 report and a review of its contents was presented at the International Radiation Protection Association Congress in Hiroshima in May. The report is expected to be published shortly.

Apart from the early fatalities in rescue workers who responded to the accident, the main health effect is an increased risk of non-fatal thyroid cancer in children. About 1800 cases of thyroid cancer have been diagnosed in those who were children at the time of the accident. This increased risk is linked to exposure to iodine-131, a radionuclide with a half-life of 8 days, which was a major component of the fission products released from the reactor. However, UNSCEAR reports no evidence of any other health effects attributable to radiation exposures. In particular, there has been no evidence of increases in cancer incidence or mortality. The risk of leukaemia, one of the main concerns due to its short latency period (5-10 years after radiation exposure in adults), is also not elevated in the exposed groups, including the recovery workers who received some of the highest exposures.

The accident on April 26 1986 in reactor 4 of the Chernobyl nuclear power plant caused the deaths of 30 power plant employees and firemen within a few days or weeks (including 28 deaths that were due to acute radiation exposure). Later on, during 1986-87, about 240 000 recovery workers were called on to take part in clean-up activities at the plant and within the 30-km exclusion zone established around the reactor. The remediation activities continued until 1990 and ultimately involved about 600 000 people.

In addition, about 116 000 people were evacuated from areas surrounding the reactor in 1986, because of large-scale radioactive releases of radioactive materials into the atmosphere. After 1986, about 220 000 people were relocated in what are now the three independent republics of the former Soviet Union: Belarus, the Russian Federation, and Ukraine. Wide areas of the three republics were contaminated and trace levels of released radionuclides were measurable in all countries of the Northern Hemisphere. The radiation exposures arising from the accident were due initially to iodine-131 and short-lived radionuclides, and subsequently to radiocaesiums from both external radiation and the consumption of foods.

The highest radiation doses arising from the accident were received by approximately 600 emergency workers and plant operators who were on the plant site during the night of the accident. Acute radiation sickness was experienced by 134 of these workers. The recovery operation workers, subsequently called upon to decontaminate the reactor site and roads, and to build the sarcophagus and a town for reactor personnel, received generally much lower doses. The average recorded doses decreased from about 170 millisievert (mSv) for those employed in 1986, to 130 mSv in 1987, and much lower values in subsequent years. (A lifetime dose from natural background radiation is typically 100 to 200 mSv, but is significantly greater in some parts of the world.)

Within a few weeks of the accident more than 100 000 persons were evacuated from the most contaminated areas of Ukraine and Belarus. While the thyroid doses, largely from ingestion of iodine-131, were significant, particularly in infants, doses to organs other than the thyroid were much smaller with effective doses (excluding the thyroid) of about 40 mSv in Belarus and 30 mSv in Ukraine. The thyroid cancer cases which arose were, regrettably, largely avoidable. No significant measures were taken at the time to reduce exposures by distributing stable iodine or by restricting the consumption of milk and fresh leafy vegetables in the vicinity of Chernobyl. If such countermeasures had been instituted, as in Poland, it is likely that the incidence of thyroid cancer would have been much reduced.

Many of the persons evacuated from the more contaminated areas after 1986 would, if they had remained, have received doses of not more than about 2 mSv per year, and in many cases the relocation of these people was unnecessary on radiological grounds. These relocations served mainly to heighten anxiety, and concerns and misconceptions about the dangers of radiation. Natural background radiation dose rates are normally in the range 2-10 mSv/y. The International Commission on Radiological Protection has issued new guidance on dose levels at which intervention should be considered and has proposed 10 mSv/y as a generic reference level below which intervention is not likely to be justifiable.

Apart from the radiation-associated thyroid cancers among those exposed in childhood, the only group that received doses high enough to possibly incur statistically detectable risks is the recovery operation workers. Among the emergency response workers there is a particular group of about 100 individuals who survived relatively high doses of radiation in the immediate, acute, phase of the accident and are currently experiencing health impairments as a consequence of their original injuries. Studies of this group will probably contribute to scientific knowledge on late effects of ionising radiation.

The UNSCEAR report notes that, of papers available to date regarding the estimation of health effects resulting from the Chernobyl accident, many suffer from methodological weaknesses such as inadequate diagnoses and classification of diseases, selection of inadequate control groups, or inadequate estimation of radiation doses. It concludes that, apart from the substantial increase in thyroid cancer after childhood exposure -

there is no evidence, 14 years after the Chernobyl accident, of any other major public health impact caused by exposure to ionising radiation;
no other increases in overall cancer incidence or mortality have been observed that could be associated with radiation exposure,
there was no increase in the incidence of birth defects as a result of the accident.
The risk of leukaemia, one of the most sensitive indicators of radiation exposure, has not been found to be elevated even in the recovery operation workers or in children. In spite of claims of cancers, genetic effects and many other disorders, including statements by health and other officials in the countries concerned, there is no scientific proof of an increase in malignant or non-malignant disorders, somatic or mental, that is related to ionising radiation (except for thyroid cancers in children). The additional annual doses to residents in the contaminated zones are generally well within the normal range of variation of natural background radiation doses.

It must be concluded that reports of health effects caused by radiation have been greatly exaggerated. A particular example is that of the groups of children from around Chernobyl who visited other countries after the accident or who were filmed in hospitals following chemotherapy. These were widely reported to have been suffering sickness due to radiation. Many of the children appeared to be in poor health. However, with the possible exception of any thyroid cancer cases among them there is no evidence that their illnesses were caused by radioactive emissions from the damaged reactor.
____________________________________

NOTE FOR EDITORS

The United Nations Scientific Committee on the Effects of Atomic Radiation (UNSCEAR) was established in 1955 to advise the General Assembly of the United Nations on the sources and biological effects of ionising radiation. Its main objective is to assess radiation exposures and the possible consequences for human health. The Committee's publications form the scientific basis on which international and national agencies develop appropriate radiation protection standards for workers, patients and the general public.

Dr A C McEwan
President
Australasian Radiation Protection Society
So there seems to be a questionning of the Chernobyl official version from official institutions themselves.

Where is the truth?
Who or what does it serve to frighten people from nuclear energy?
Who or what does it serve to promote nuclear energy and dismiss its dangers?

Ludovic


Ludovic
 
Hi judvic.

Interesting articles!

I must admit that I have always accepted - completely uncritically! - that Chernobyl was an unmitigated disaster!

I would never have thought it would be lauded as an event promulgating the advocacy of Nuclear Reactor plants! (Which is not to say that I, personally, hold strong feelings against them as an alternative source of power.)

Just surprising to me to see articles from this angle.

"Contrary to the scare stories about a nuclear wasteland, the region around Chernobyl most "contaminated" with radiation, is now a magnificent nature preserve, with abundant flora and fauna[...]" - Jaworowski.

And here are some of Elena's diary comments attaching to her photographic odyssey:

"[There] are radioactive technics as far as the eye can see. They are a type of army truck. Most of these vehicles were full of troops on that day."

"How many people died of radiation? No one knows - not even approximately. The official casualty reports range from 300 to 300,000 and many unofficial sources put the toll over 400,000.

"The final toll will not be known in our lifetime, and maybe not our childrens either."

"This hellish inferno became a sort of paradise for wild animals - at least on the surface. They thrive with no humans to prey upon them, but nobody fully understands how the nuclear poisons have altered their genetic makeup, the extent of their migration or their interactions with the adjacent "safe" areas. Grotesque mutations have been reported, but zoologists deny that."

"Populations of wolfs and wild boars grow rapidly. They occupying the abandoned houses and sheds. They are curiously unagressive here. Maybe that has something to do with the food supply which plentiful for all species except man, but contaminated. It's not unusual to see a wolf, a fox, a wild boar or a wild deer casually crossing the road."

"This is the town of Chernobyl - The entire population was evacuated in 1986 - but not until long after the danger enveloped them. It was a base for the Atomic Power Plant workers. Geiger counter reading here now is 20-80 microroentgens. This is the safest area in the dead zone."

"Usually, on this leg of the journey, a beeping geiger counter inspires to shift into high gear and streak through the area with great haste. The patch of trees in front of me is called red - or 'magic" wood. In 1986, this wood glowed red with radiation. They cut them down and buried them under 1 meter of earth."

"The readings on the asphalt paving is 500 -3000 microroentgens, depending upon where you stand. That is 50 to 300 times the radiation of a normal environment. If I step 10 meters forward, geiger counter will run off the scale. If I walk a few hundred meters towards the reactor, the radiation is 3 roentgens per hour - which is 300,000 times normal. If I was to keep walking all the way to the reactor, I would glow in the dark tonight. Maybe this is why they call it magic wood. It is sort of magical when one walks in with biker's leather and walks out like a knight in a shining armor."


The geiger counter readings in the last paragraphs are interesting.

How do they compare with the articles by Prof Jaworowski and Dr McEwan?

How do 'microroentgens' convert to the units used in the two articles of 'Gray' and 'mSv' or 'mSv/y'?

And are the levels Elena claims to have recorded, in fact, dangerous?

I really don't know.

It is amazing, is it not, how wary we have to be of ALL reports these days!

Regards,
StarFraction
 
StarFraction said:
Hi judvic.

Interesting articles!

I must admit that I have always accepted - completely uncritically! - that Chernobyl was an unmitigated disaster!

The geiger counter readings in the last paragraphs are interesting.

How do they compare with the articles by Prof Jaworowski and Dr McEwan?

How do 'microroentgens' convert to the units used in the two articles of 'Gray' and 'mSv' or 'mSv/y'?

And are the levels Elena claims to have recorded, in fact, dangerous?

I really don't know.

It is amazing, is it not, how wary we have to be of ALL reports these days!

Regards,
StarFraction
Hello,

Yes, indeed, we have to be wary of everything we hold dear. no sacred cows...

Plato opposes opinion to knowledge. I think it is very relevant.

And all we have been taught from our early age, is, I am afraid for most of it, opinion. I remember that I never clearly understood what fire was during the chemistry class and the explanation given (the produce of the combustion) I felt was unsatisfactory. Same with mathematics: what is a line, a dot, a dimension, a negative number... What is a force in physics?

We are alienated, to put it a Marxist way. Everything that makes up our daily life is in many ways foreign to us. We don't build the cars, produce the energy, understand really how works our computer. not to speak of the plants that grow around us and most of us are unable to name or use correctly...

So my point is we don't know anything. For me information and knowledge are synonyms.
What we have everywhere is disinformation, which at its best is merely opinion, at its worst deceit.
The danger would be to trust something is true only because it is not mainstream.

ANd for Chernobyl the only solution is to go there and make the relevant measures and observations.
But let us not trust without further evidence any claim about how the situation is overthere.
But are radiations so dangerous? I don't know I never made the experiment.

The problem with energy is if we were able to produce a safe and abundant one, the means of control over the population would dissapear.

Nuclear fission might have been a step towards a better world had it been used correctly. I have read article about throrium salt based fission reactors that would be totally safe and easy to install everywhere... which is why they are not developped in the nuclear nations or elswhere.

Such as it is today, I don't know if nuclear plants are a good thing or not.

But the alternative to me is or we developp new energies or most of us will continue to live indignant lives and eventually perish.
This is why green parties are in some ways backing mass murder: without technology it is not possible to keep 8 billion inhabitants alive.
It is well known that GreenPeace is funded by oil producers, the same oligarcs that allegedly plan a population decrease!

Greenparties are often unconscious(?) malthusianists and the pawns of the PTB.

Ludovic
 
Sorry Guys, I think you're talking non-sense here--if you're trying to say that Chernobyl was anything but an unmitigated disaster of the highest degree or that it couldn't happen again. Have you done any research?! I recommend "Chernobyl, Insight from the Inside" by Vladimir Chemousenko, an excerpt can be found here:
http://www.ratical.org/radiation/Chernobyl/ChernobylIftI.html

I read the whole book and it's fantastic. Very well researched and documented--including photos. Chemousenko was the person in direct overall charge of the cleanup operation. He had nothing to gain by telling the truth--in that he's extremely critical of the PTB, of which he was/is? a functionary. What he's got to say is well worth reading, IMO . . . . .

Chemousenko said:
by Vladimir M. Chernousenko,
Scientific Director of the Ukrainian Academy of Sciences
Institute of Physics in Kiev's Task Force for the
Rectification of the Consequences of the Chernobyl Accident

The Myths of Chernobyl,

and why I Wrote This Book



Accidents at nuclear power stations happen.
Between 1971 and 1986, in 14 countries,
there were 152 accidents.
From information provided by the
International Atomic Energy Agency




"It is not enough for a handful of experts
to attempt the solution of a problem,
to solve it and then to apply it.

The restriction of knowledge
to an elite group
destroys the spirit of society
and leads to its intellectual impoverishment."
Albert Einstein




I must help to dispel some dangerous myths. After the Chernobyl disaster the polarization of public opinion with regard to nuclear power as a source of energy became even more pronounced than before. At one extreme are the representatives of the nuclear industry, who believe, despite the growing scale of nuclear reactor accidents that the development of nuclear power must continue at an unrelenting pace. At the other extreme, we find the "Greens" and others demanding the immediate shut-down of all operating reactors and a ban on future construction of nuclear power stations.
In my view, both extremes are too simplistic.
In the history of civilization there have been occasions when people could not refrain from developing hazardous industrial processes. Nuclear power is, of course, the most prominent example. We must accept the facts and our enormous energy requirements, but it is also important not to forget that attempts to economize on safety provisions in such hazardous industries result in increased risk. And these increased risks may result in terrible tragedy, even in disasters whose consequences exceed national boundaries. It is certainly true that a nuclear power station working safely without any accident, is ecologically one of the cleanest of all industrial plants. However, a single accident, like the one at Chernobyl, can negate all advantages for centuries to come.
If we feel, therefore, that we do not now have the ideas and resources to create absolutely effective radiation safeguards, then it would be better to call a halt today. Tomorrow may be too late.
Unfortunately, international public opinion has already been confused by the myths concerning the causes and scale of the Chernobyl disaster and its consequences for millions of people. Probably, the birth of these myths may be traced back to the articles published in the Soviet press in May 1986. The public was assured that "the heroes of Chernobyl" were "entering the Zone", "studying the situation", "bringing the reactor in Block 4 under control", "bringing the situation under control".
In reality, no means were available to bring the reactor or even the whole situation under control. The reactor was dead. Its radioactive core had already been torn apart by the explosion. Almost all the radioactivity it could release, had already been set free by May 10, 1986. Millions of Curies of radionuclides from the gutted reactor had been scattered across the face of the earth. A transnational nuclear disaster had already happened.
Then was not the time to save the nuclear power station, but to save the people -- those living far beyond the boundaries of the 30-km Zone. However, the Government Commission charged with the rectification work (the "Liquidation of the Consequences of the Accident at the Chernobyl Nuclear Power Station" (LPA) "Likvidatsiya posledstvii avarii", stubbornly concentrated all its attention on the tiny 10-km Special Zone. It was into this small area that all the material resources were thrown, along with thousands of untrained and unprotected soldiers and reservists. The politicians had decided that the remaining three blocks of the station had to be brought back on-line, whatever the cost.
Hence, the birth of the myths of Chernobyl. A wave of disinformation swamped the Soviet press and then washed over the Western press.
A new wave of myths rippled out from the official report given by the Soviet (nuclear industry) representatives at the IAEA (International Atomic Engergy Agency) conference in August 1986. The report was full of vague formulations, unchecked data, and false conclusions as to the causes and scale of the disaster. Apparently, the IAEA was quite satisfied with it. All indications were that these conclusions were perfectly acceptable to top officials of the IAEA.
And the myths continue to be born. By the fifth anniversary of the tragedy, hundreds of books and articles had been written about Chernobyl. Of these, a number were written by people with no expert knowledge and are primarily emotional in character. Each of these seeks to throw light on one or another aspect of the disaster, usually concentrating on the first days or weeks.
The second category consists of works at least written by experts, but by experts who had no opportunity to personally check the situation in Chernobyl -- or, perhaps, who had dropped by briefly, but only after 1987, and often only for the purpose of having their photograph taken with the Sarcophagus in the background. This picture would then be included in their book to emphasize the author's personal involvement in the events described. Most of their factual information about what happened, most of their "reliable" data are gleaned from the official Soviet press. Unfortunately, even in the period of 'perestroika and glasnost' the Soviet press is far from being objective, and the information it offers is far from being totally reliable. The truth about the tragedy has been concealed by very severe censorship. The world has been shown "Potemkin villages" full of happily resettled inhabitants. From the days of the Tsars to those of Stalin, Russia always knew how to erect a facade -- and it is a well-known fact that the absence of reliable information, or of any information at all, creates ideal conditions for the birth of myths.

Myth 1 (for further details see Chapters 1- 3): The design of the RBMK-1000 reactor is impeccable. It was the operating staff that caused the explosion.

Myth 2 (see Chapter 1): The radionuclides emitted from the shattered reactor represent only 3% of the full 192-ton charge of uranium.

Myth 3 (see Chapter 3): The partial technical changes to which the 15 RMBK-1000 reactors still in operation were subjected after the disaster have eliminated any danger of a second accident.

Myth 4 (see Chapter 1): Only 31 people died as a result of the accident and the cleanup operations.

Myth 5 (see Chapters 1 and 4): The concentration of attention on the 30-km Zone and on the decontamination and restarting of the three other reactors at Chernobyl was both permissible, given the radiation situation, and essential, given the need for electricity.

Myth 6 (see Chapter 4): Before the accident there already existed a proper, scientifically developed contingency plan backed up with all the necessary technical resources, and all designed to cope with a nuclear disaster of such a scale.

Myth 7 (see Chapter 5): With the completion of the Sarcophagus, rectification was essentially completed. The Sarcophagus is a tomb full of highly radioactive waste and is designed to last for 30 years. It is perfectly safe and presents no threat to people or environment.

Myth 8 (see Chapter 6): Work in ultra-high radiation fields was carried out with the help of robots. The men who entered such fields were equipped with the appropriate protective gear.

Myth 9 (see Chapter 7): When "rectifiers", after their service in the Zone, began to fall ill and die, the link between their illness and the time they had spent in radiation fields was recognized. They were given the necessary medicines and treatment while welfare assistance was also available to their families.

Myth 10 (see Chapter 8): People living outside the 30-km Zone, but in areas affected by the emission of radionuclides, were warned in good time of the danger which threatened them and were given iodine treatment. The civil defense system worked effectively.

Myth 11 (see Chapter 9): The "35-rem safe lifetime dose" guideline for people living in contaminated areas (as proposed by Academician Il'yin and apparently supported by the leading officials of the IAEA) is scientifically sound and will not result in damage to health.

Myth 12 (see Chapters 1, 8, and 9): There is no reason to think that tens of thousands of children in the Ukraine, Byelorussia, and the Russian republic received radiation doses to their thyroid glands hundreds of times greater than the internationally permitted maximum dose.

Myth 13 (see Chapter 11): There is no reason to think that in the affected areas there is a continuing rise in the number of ailments caused by radiation, received either externally or internally through inhalation or contaminated food.

Myth 14 (see Chapters 1 and 11): The doses which people have received while living in contaminated areas will not have a genetic effect.

Myth 15 (see Chapter 12): The disaster will have no long-term impact on the environment, will not damage flora and fauna.

Myth 16 (see Chapter 13): The protective measures taken in the summer of 1986 in the 30-km Zone have prevented any leakage of radionuclides into the surface and ground waters.

Myth 17 (see Chapters 13 and 15): The radioactive pollution of the floodlands of the river Pripyat and of the silt of the Kiev Reservoir does not create any threat to the Dniepr basin or, ultimately, to the Black Sea.

Myth 18 (see Chapter 14): The existing national and international norms created to protect the civilian population from radiation are scientifically sound and will prevent any damage to the health of future generations.

Myth 19 (see Chapter 15): In the event of another nuclear accident anywhere in the world, scientific expertise and technical resources exist which are adequate for the task of decontaminating huge areas.

Myth 20 (see Chapters 14 and 15): The storage facilities for fuel waste and liquid waste at Chernobyl (and also at other Soviet nuclear power stations), the total content of which, in terms of radioactivity, amounts to more than 20 billion Curies, pose no threat to the world.

Myth 21 (see Chapters 1 and 15): The 800 - 1000 "tombs" which were dug in the (30-km) Zone to dump more than 500 million cubic meters of high-level and low-level radioactive debris present no danger to the world's aquifers.

From the preceding (incomplete) catalogue of myths it is seen that this book attempts to bring into the open true facts about the way the Chernobyl disaster has been handled -- from April 1986 up to August 1991.
I deliberately chose to present the interviews in their original tone which is sometimes emotional. Along with personal messages conveying horror, pain, grief, disappointment, frustration, and anger, the reader will find reports and data presented in the language of science. These different messages provide an adequate overall picture of Chernobyl. They reflect the many facets of the tragedy.
 
Yossarian said:
Sorry Guys, I think you're talking non-sense here--if you're trying to say that Chernobyl was anything but an unmitigated disaster of the highest degree or that it couldn't happen again. Have you done any research?! I recommend "Chernobyl, Insight from the Inside" by Vladimir Chemousenko, an excerpt can be found here:
Did you read what I wrote?
I'll try to be clearer: there is no way that a book, whoever wrote it, is sufficient to know the truth.

Anybody can have an agenda or be honest but wrong. There is a lot at stake with energy.

Ludovic
 
I'm probably not following this logic clearly, but based upon this thinking,
judvic said:
there is no way that a book, whoever wrote it, is sufficient to know the truth
one should never bother to read books because what would one gain from it? Certainly not truth.

I'm not claiming that any one book is the truth. I DO claim that what Chemousenko wrote is a far closer approximation to the truth than the person(s) that you quote, which I do think is non-sense, based upon not only Chemousenko's work, but much other research that I have done. It's difficult for me, anyhow, to read what has a "smell" of disinformation, and not respond.

Perhaps one should do a personal experiment, and expose one's self to radiation levels comparable to what those children were exposed to, to determine what the result would be? Or perhaps one should expose one's own children first and then one's self later? That would be more human than to recommend such for others, before being willing to accept such treatment for one's self--or to deny the reality of the harm that has been done to others. We get so much of this these days . . . denying the reality of the harm that has been done to others. Why? Who benefits? What is the ultimate purpose in implying that nuclear power "really isn't that bad?"

What about the fact that an ologarchic power elite has a deathgrip hold on energy resources and is using that power to impoverish most of the world? Wouldn't a more logical solution be to begin with admitting that those that control our reality seem to want to direct us to death dealing nuclear power as "the only solution," to the shortage of oil at this time--when oil really isn't in such a short supply to begin with and there are surely other potential sources of power and power technology that don't require the death of innocents for the benefit of the few?

Chemousenko's work is excellent--and includes much information that will NOT be found in western propagandized material such as I have seen-- He is an eyewitness and much more--and he admits that there is much which we cannot know- while pointing out evidence and what we can reasonably infer from what information that we do have available -while at the same time he documents what are clearly ponerogenic influences and behaviors by the psychopathic PTB.

judvic--AUSTRALASIAN RADIATION PROTECTION SOCIETY August 4 2000 PRESS RELEASE said:
It must be concluded that reports of health effects caused by radiation have been greatly exaggerated. A particular example is that of the groups of children from around Chernobyl who visited other countries after the accident or who were filmed in hospitals following chemotherapy. These were widely reported to have been suffering sickness due to radiation. Many of the children appeared to be in poor health. However, with the possible exception of any thyroid cancer cases among them there is no evidence that their illnesses were caused by radioactive emissions from the damaged reactor.
 
Yossarian said:
I'm probably not following this logic clearly, but based upon this thinking,
judvic said:
there is no way that a book, whoever wrote it, is sufficient to know the truth
one should never bother to read books because what would one gain from it? Certainly not truth.
Reading is often a necessary condition but not a sufficient one.
When one reads a book one's find fuel for thinking.
What one then does with the fuel is up to him.
I'll give you an example: suppose one is new to mathematics and one reads a math book about let's say eucledian geometry.
It takes a few hours to read the book. But when one finishes it does it mean that one has gained the knowledge that is in it?
I doubt it. One needs to work on evey axiom and theorem and one needs to remake for himself the demonstrations and hundreds of exercices in order to really say that one has gained in some way knowledge. That can take from a few months to a few years.
But then one must question himself about the axioms: are they so relevant?
In the case of geometry one may start to wonder what does it do to change the postulate that in one point it is possible to have one and only one parallel line to another line...

I'm not claiming that any one book is the truth. I DO claim that what Chemousenko wrote is a far closer approximation to the truth than the person(s) that you quote, which I do think is non-sense, based upon not only Chemousenko's work, but much other research that I have done. It's difficult for me, anyhow, to read what has a "smell" of disinformation, and not respond.
What does your claim rely on?


What about the fact that an ologarchic power elite has a deathgrip hold on energy resources and is using that power to impoverish most of the world?
This seems true to me also.

Wouldn't a more logical solution be to begin with admitting that those that control our reality seem to want to direct us to death dealing nuclear power as "the only solution," to the shortage of oil at this time--when oil really isn't in such a short supply to begin with and there are surely other potential sources of power and power technology that don't require the death of innocents for the benefit of the few?
How do you know about oil?
I have worked in the oil industry, onboard seismic ship around the world. I have seen that it is not so easy to find oil...
Of course this is not enough to say that I am sure about the oil shortage. I doubt it also. But I lack the knowledge to be as sure as you are. Maybe you have relevant experiences or information that you could share with us?

Your assupmtion about the will of those that control our reality to direct us to death needs to be discussed further.
I sometimes tend to agree with this but I still have doublts.

I mean this: why is it there has been no nuclear conflict? Do you think that it is because the possession of the atom power is the beginning of wisdom (which by the way is the position of general Gallois)?
Or is rather because some powers have forbidden such nations to use it since 1945?

And who is in control or our reality? Maybe nobody is.
Maybe it is up to us to shape our reality? Future is open.
We don't have to follow 4dsts influences, lets follow rather 6dsto and see what happens.

Anyway I'LL try to read this book you deem so interesting.
I have met one person who claims that he has regained his health by being immersed in moderate radiations bath. He told me that it is customary to do so in certain backgrounds. I could not check the truth of it, but still it would be interesting to investigate it.
 
Judvic, these are fair questions, in that you seem open and willing to engage. I'd better put in the disclaimer that I certainly don't have all the answers, but I know enough to know that there's something very wrong with the way things are versus the way that we're told in the media, school, etc. that things are.

Regarding oil, for one, there's much on this site that could be helpful, you could use the terms "peak oil" or "balkanize" (Iraq) for example, in the search function for the Signs, or read the piece in the Kennedy series "Kennedy Oil and the War on Terror" (for a good start on the oligarchic part of the oil industry) Love that Kennedy series.

As far as those who "shape our reality" it's worth searching and reading everything on this site about the "Protocols of the Elders of Zion"

In regards the plans to destroy 94% of the world's population, type in 94% into the search function and read as much as you can on Signs and Cassiopaea, including the Wave series, Adventure series, Douglas Reed's "Controversy of Zion" and this editorial http://www.signs-of-the-times.org/signs/editorials/signs20060906_TheMostImportantBookYou27llEverRead.php

Admittedly, my take is very subjective and not fully informed.
 
I agree with you that something is wrong in the world.
I have the intuition backed by some research that indeed there are groups, some humans, some not, who are acting behind the scene and are not well meaning towards us.
I think this is our common ground.

What seems to differentiate us is that you seem to be quite confident about what you read and you seem to believe to have reached some truth.
Such is not the case for me. I have always had a critical mind, but now it has reached a point where I just don't know anything anymore.... I am carrying out the hyerbolic doubt process Descartes speaks about.
I hope to find at some point a truth on which I will be able to build a representation of the world. This time has not arrived yet.

It turns out that I have read most of the articles and books you quote, but it is not enough for me to reach a conclusion.
It only indicates that some people are on a path that seems colinear with mine.
As far as i can tell nobody in the SOTT team is certain about the oil issue (the fact that oil could be continuoulsly generated). It is a working hypothesis only which needs confirmation.

For the time being I am working on matters I can test myself so I don't have to rely too much on books written by people I don't know and whom I am not certain that they don't have a hidden agenda. A good example of such matters I can work on are nutrition, behaviour with others and my inner world. What one could call work on oneself.

On the bigger issues, if I may call them like this, I am totally in the mist because I have to rely heavily on theorie s and books that I cannot test.
Such is the case of the nuclear energy or the oil issue or hyperdimensions.


Ludovic
 
Judvic,
I think healthy skepticism and suspicion is good, but we can't allow it to paralyze us. We still have to make observations, gather information, make judgments about the value of that information, make decisions and take action, i.e. we have to do the best that we can with what we've got--while still admitting that we are working with "hypothesis." It helps to be part of a team in dialog on the quest for the truth.

There are many ways to look at it, but one possible way is through the work of liberation educator and theorist Paolo Freire, "Pedagogy of the Oppressed" p. 95-99 from which I quote:

"This task implies that revolutionary leaders do not go to the people in order to bring them a message of 'salvation' but in order to come to know through dialogue with them both their objective situation and their awareness of that situation--the various levels of perception of themselves and of the world in which and with which they exist . . . we would first have to verify whether or not it is an objective fact, only then could we proceed to apprehend it. Although an attitude of critical doubt is legitimate, it does appear possible to verify the reality of the generative theme [theme with significant meaning re the oppressive reality to the oppressed-my clarification] --not only through one's own existential experience, but also through critical reflection on the human-world relationship and on relationships between people implicit in the former . . . man is the only one to treat not only his actions but his very self as the object of his reflection . . . aware of their activity in the world in which they are situated, acting in function of the objectives which they propose, having the seat of their decisions in themselves and in their relations with the world and with others, infusing the world with their creative presence by means of the transformations they effect upon it--humans not only live but exist and their existence is historical. Humans exist in a world which they are constantly re-creating and transforming . . . because they are conscious beings--exist in a dialectical relationship between the determination of limits and their own freedom. They separate themselves from their own activity, as they locate the seat of their decisions in themselves and in their relations with the world and others, people OVERCOME the situations which limit them; the 'limit situations.' Once perceived by individuals as fetters or obstacles to their liberation, these situations stand out in relief from the background, revealing their true nature as concrete historical dimensions of a given reality. Men and women respond to challenge with actions which Vieira Pinto calls 'limit-acts': those directed at negating and overcoming, rather than passively accepting, the 'given.'"

In other words, in the act of trying to theorize, hypothesize, gather information objectively as part of a team in dialog, and to disseminate this information,--present and historical information--the SOtT team is engaged in a 'limit-act'--the human activity of questioning and envisioning alternate realities.
 
Yossarian said:
Judvic,
I think healthy skepticism and suspicion is good, but we can't allow it to paralyze us. We still have to make observations, gather information, make judgments about the value of that information, make decisions and take action, i.e. we have to do the best that we can with what we've got--while still admitting that we are working with "hypothesis." It helps to be part of a team in dialog on the quest for the truth [...]

[...] In other words, in the act of trying to theorize, hypothesize, gather information objectively as part of a team in dialog, and to disseminate this information,--present and historical information--the SOtT team is engaged in a 'limit-act'--the human activity of questioning and envisioning alternate realities.
I certainly do agree with you and I am perfectly aware that a critical mind should not paralyse one, but on the contrary should lead one to DO something.
I think one has to go through a sequence of events, one has to let go all of one's beliefs and rebuild on more solid foundations a vision of the world. There is a real danger that one loses one's bearings during this time and the help of a trustworthy group is definitly a great asset to prevent one from loosing oneself.



Ludovic
 
Sometimes you realise that you can be so stupid .... You can't believe what you missed!

Here is Elena's front page on Chernobyl.

I'm sure I saw it before ... but didn't see it somehow.

As a man who generally perceives most females to be 'mental' - running, ducking and hiding at this point! - I LOVE this lady.

(Ummm ... please have a sense of humour about the last remark. Remember humour? My 'feminist' sister posted me a birthday card .....

...Two aliens looking out of the window of their spacecraft at planet Earth ...

First Alien: 'What do you think?'

Second Alien: 'I think the ones with brains are OK ... but I'm a bit worried about the ones with testicles!'

Always retain a sense of humour. It kind of balances things out.)

Here is Elena's intro to her site:

************************************************************************************

Ghost Town - Introduction

My name is Elena. I run this website and I don't have anything to sell. What I do have is my motorbike and the absolute freedom to ride it wherever curiosity and the speed demon take me.

This page is maintained by the author, but when internet traffic is heavy it may be down occasionally.


Biking

I have ridden all my life and over the years I have owned several different motorbikes. I ended my search for a perfect bike with a big kawasaki ninja, that boasts a mature 147 horse power, some serious bark, is fast as a bullet and comfortable for a long trips. here is more about my motorcycle

I travel a lot and one of my favourite destinations leads North from Kiev, towards so called Chernobyl "dead zone", which is 130kms from my home. Why my favourite? Because one can take long rides there on empty roads.

The people there all left and nature is blooming. There are beautiful woods and lakes.

In places where roads have not been travelled by trucks or army vehicles, they are in the same condition they were 20 years ago - except for an occasional blade of grass that discovered a crack to spring through. Time does not ruin roads, so they may stay this way until they can be opened to normal traffic again........ a few centuries from now.


Roentgens

To begin our journey, we must learn a little something about radiation. It is really very simple, and the device we use for measuring radiation levels is called a Geiger counter . If you flick it on in Kiev, it will measure about 12-16 microroentgen per hour. In a typical city of Russia and America, it will read 10-12 microroentgen per hour. In the center of many European cities are 20 microR per hour, the radioactivity of the stone.

1,000 microroentgens equal one milliroentgen and 1,000 milliroentgens equal 1 roentgen. So one roentgen is 100,000 times the average radiation of a typical city. A dose of 500 roentgens within 5 hours is fatal to humans. Interestingly, it takes about 2 1/2 times that dosage to kill a chicken and over 100 times that to kill a cockroach.
This sort of radiation level can not be found in Chernobyl now. In the first days after explosion, some places around the reactor were emitting 3,000-30,000 roentgens per hour. The firemen who were sent to put out the reactor fire were fried on the spot by gamma radiation. The remains of the reactor were entombed within an enormous steel and concrete sarcophagus, so it is now relatively safe to travel to the area - as long as we do not step off of the roadway.......

The map above shows the radiation levels in different parts of the dead zone. The map will soon be replaced with a more comprehensive one that identifies more features.

It shows various levels of radiation on asphalt - usually on the middle of road - because at edge of the road it is twice as high. If you step 1 meter off the road it is 4 or 5 times higher. Radiation sits on the soil, on the grass, in apples and mushrooms. It is not retained by asphalt, which makes rides through this area possible.

I have never had problems with the dosimeter guys, who man the checkpoints. They are experts, and if they find radiation on you vehicle, they give it a chemical shower. I don't count those couple of times when "experts" tried to invent an excuse to give me a shower, because those had a lot more to do with physical biology than biological physics.

*********************************************************************************

And here are the words of the guy who donates her bandwidth:

Server is averaging 12mbps and 4000+ concurrent users.

July 7, 2004

First let me say that I have nothing to do with this project other than donating the bandwidth to allow the world to see it. When I first saw the site, Angelfire could not handle the amount of traffic the site was receiveing. I knew my server could. Then Angelfire began plastering the site with banner ads shamelessly trying to make money off the site. This is the point at which Elena shut the site down, not because she had anything to hide.

Regardless of what is true, this site has certainly made people think more about Chernobyl and this tragic disaster.

However, this story has been there for years and has been primarily forgotten and neglected.

After "Elena" brought this story to light, everyone that claims to be an expert has come forward identifying it as a hoax or a fraud.

How ironic that although they would label her a hoax and a fraud, she was able to achieve what they could not even dream of achieving. Bringing this issue the world wide attention it deserves.

As the only email contact, I have seen each of the moving emails that were directed to "Elena."
Her words have definitely made the world think about this piece of forgotten history. I have seen every request from news agencies from around the world, each of the big names, begging for interviews.

"Elena" wanted nothing to do with these interviews.

I offered to setup a paypal donate account to create a fund for the project and local charities.

"Elena" Wanted nothing to do with it.

Did she do it for fame or notoriety or even money?

Or did she do it in order to bring attention to a forgotten region.

Read her words and decide for yourself.

********************************************************************************

I think Elena has done a great job.

I think Laura has done a great job.

These ladies have my deepest respect and gratitude.

StarFraction

"My son is an honest man. He is working hard for peace." -- George Bush snr.
 
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