Conflicting memories, missing memories?

[Straycat]

I had a rather unsettling conversation with my sister last night. About 24 years ago we had a paranormal experience in the woods of Oahu. It was awe-inspiring to me, frightening to my sister. She has never liked to talk about all the strangeness we grew up with or strangeness in general, either; any mention of it is quickly shot down with "rational" explanations or she changes the subject or she just doesn't respond. I've respected her feelings on the matter and let the subject drop quickly.

Last night I pushed her a bit to see if she remembered any more details that I may have missed or forgotten about this one experience we shared because it's been on my mind a lot lately. To my dismay, I found out that she hasn't just avoided talking about it, she's constructed entirely different memories of what happened. She now insists that "nothing major or unusual" happened at all and was confused by my account of the event. She swears none of it ever happened.

I also finally brought up how she reacts when any paranormal subject is brought up, how she avoids it. The only times I've ever managed to get a little discussion out of her is when I approach her kind of sideways about it. And I can't ask her much once she starts discussing a memory or she just shuts down. She swears she has no awareness of doing any such thing and is convinced that she talks about it quite a bit. And then when I say I'd like to go back to that place on Oahu again she immediately redirects by talking brightly about places we should check out instead. No, no avoidance there, right?

This of course makes me start questioning my own memories as well as hers. At the moment, I'm more inclined to think hers is the false memory in this particular case because she had always been able to sense things a bit better than me and it disturbed her. She didn't want to see or sense unusual things, it was upsetting to her. It dismays me, but I can understand why she might not want to remember what happened. It's quite possible both our memories are false, but I'm a lot more open to strangeness than she is and can at least remember that it was strange without being upset. If that makes any sense.

So now I wonder how many memories have been replaced in her mind? How many have been replaced in mine? I have no memories of having missing time or blackouts, for instance, but what if some episodes of strangeness were replaced with benign facades that I don't even suspect? I remember that there was a lot of strangeness and unhappiness, but I remember very few "normal" details about my childhood. My sister is the only one left alive who went through it with me, and now her memories are even more tenuous than I realized. :(

From reading the Wave material and all, I had an awareness of how we can be manipulated and deceived. I had an awareness about trauma and false memories. But I suppose I didn't fully internalize the understanding until now.

 

[H-KQGE]

That's quite sad. She may have gone through a lot of negative "normal" encounters because of it. Like the descriptions in The Wave and insights via the C's, there could be a (life)path she was/could've meant to go down but didn't due to "interference." You would have to find out the usual suspects for better feedback to determine any possibilities of high strangeness - diet etc. It's good that you brought this here & I think, it's sensible to investigate whether your memories are inaccurate. There are various safe techniques to practice from the psychology & cognitive science board that may shed some light, along with the EE program, since this sounds like a fundamentally traumatic experience. I should also point out that you definitely are NOT alone with high strangeness experiences (I'm sure you know this but it's important to believe it & there's much help around unlike the past few decades) & most who've experienced these phenomena have, will & simply MUST "shove it under the rug." More wiser experienced members should be able to give you help (if you add more data, the more the better) which in turn, can help others. If you are aware of "recapitulation" then I think that that might be a good place to start - along with a "clean" diet. Doing these things can go a long way to accurately assessing your memories, feelings, & training your senses or "reading instrument." :)

 

[mkrnhr]

Hi Straycat,
Memory is a very elusive and fragile phenomenon. Actually, SOTT returns a few hundred fascinating entries on how memories can be altered, either consciously or unconsciously. Usually with high strangeness phenomena, people tend to alter their memories because they are in denial. It happens because the events clash with their worldview, or because the fear of the unknown triggers a defense mechanism, which in this case consists in creating a new narrative for the event, or just forgetting it. I don't think it is considerate to force these persons to remember those events if they have made the choice, perhaps unconsciously to forget them, because it would clash with their inner psychological landscape IMHO. Some people are ready to accept an "extended" reality and others are not. OSIT

 

[RedFox]

I don't think it is considerate to force these persons to remember those events if they have made the choice, perhaps unconsciously to forget them, because it would clash with their inner psychological landscape IMHO. Some people are ready to accept an "extended" reality and others are not. OSIT

I tend to agree with this, if you know it upsets her then it isn't considerate to push the issue now you know that she "can't go there".
This seems to be an important (and emotional) issue to you, so I'm not dismissing exploring it - but I think it's best to leave your sister out of it.
Have a look at External and Internal Considering - which in short is about making life easier for both yourself and those around you.

Perhaps once you have enough posts to access The Swamp it may be helpful to share your experience and air it out? It is not uncommon and many people on this forum have experienced high strangeness events.

 

[Straycat]

I don't think it is considerate to force these persons to remember those events if they have made the choice, perhaps unconsciously to forget them, because it would clash with their inner psychological landscape IMHO. Some people are ready to accept an "extended" reality and others are not. OSIT

I tend to agree with this, if you know it upsets her then it isn't considerate to push the issue now you know that she "can't go there".
This seems to be an important (and emotional) issue to you, so I'm not dismissing exploring it - but I think it's best to leave your sister out of it.

I agree. I hadn't realized just how MUCH it disturbed her until now. This combined with a couple of other things she told me related to our childhood make me so sad for her I want to cry.

At the same time, it's both isolating and frustrating for me. Isolating because I now have no one from that time in my life with whom I can share memories. I've been trying to write down every little thing I can remember before it's lost from my own memory, too.

It's frustrating because while I understand fear - we both lived with a lot of it - I went in a different direction in dealing with it, I think. If something upsets me, I want to grab it and roll it around, examine it from every angle, learn everything I can from it. The more I understand about it, the less intimidating it is. On the other hand, she wants to avoid it, hide from it. I don't think it serves her well and just limits her life, but I know I can't make those choices for her. She has to live how she chooses to live.

Have a look at External and Internal Considering - which in short is about making life easier for both yourself and those around you.

Perhaps once you have enough posts to access The Swamp it may be helpful to share your experience and air it out? It is not uncommon and many people on this forum have experienced high strangeness events.

I'll look forward to that. There are few enough places to share accounts of strangeness these days!

Thank you for the link.

 

[RedFox]

I agree. I hadn't realized just how MUCH it disturbed her until now. This combined with a couple of other things she told me related to our childhood make me so sad for her I want to cry.

At the same time, it's both isolating and frustrating for me. Isolating because I now have no one from that time in my life with whom I can share memories. I've been trying to write down every little thing I can remember before it's lost from my own memory, too.

It's frustrating because while I understand fear - we both lived with a lot of it - I went in a different direction in dealing with it, I think. If something upsets me, I want to grab it and roll it around, examine it from every angle, learn everything I can from it. The more I understand about it, the less intimidating it is. On the other hand, she wants to avoid it, hide from it. I don't think it serves her well and just limits her life, but I know I can't make those choices for her. She has to live how she chooses to live.

It's great that you can see it! :)
I'm sure that everyone here who's been through similar would agree that it does feel frustrating and isolating. It can be especially frustrating when you want to share your excitement for something new, or know the steps someone needs to take to fix things but they don't seem to have the capacity to take them. It is isolating because it cuts off our social connection to that person - or perhaps it makes us realize how limited it was?

Along those lines you can still have the same connection to her, but limit yourself to only things that don't hit that saw spot she has - this is then a respectful/understanding (externally considerate) connection.

Just like understanding every angle of fear, it can be worth considering that this is also part of the process of learning and growing - what you are going through and are feeling right now.
Social connection is fundamentally important to human beings, and understanding it from every angle can help in navigating them with more ease. The follow thread may be useful as it applies to all relationships I think: finding partners...

 

[Scheherazade]

Hello Straycat,

I had to answer and show you my support, because I'm exactly in the same situation with my brother, I have some high strangeness memories, and one in particularly that we both shared the event, and I remember he was as afraid as I were (we were maybe 5, 6 years old).
All the times I talked about this with him, he was genuinely baffled and he swears it never happened, to the point I doubted if it was a real event or a (very) lucid dream.
"she has to live how she chooses to live", exactly, it may be a very isolating feeling to not be able to share the memories with her, I understand you.

 

[Straycat]

Hello Straycat,

I had to answer and show you my support, because I'm exactly in the same situation with my brother, I have some high strangeness memories, and one in particularly that we both shared the event, and I remember he was as afraid as I were (we were maybe 5, 6 years old).
All the times I talked about this with him, he was genuinely baffled and he swears it never happened, to the point I doubted if it was a real event or a (very) lucid dream.
"she has to live how she chooses to live", exactly, it may be a very isolating feeling to not be able to share the memories with her, I understand you.

Thank you, Scheherazade. It's troubling, yes. My sister's certainty that nothing happened with this event was completely sincere. It made me start doubting my own mind. I do have old journal entries in which I referred to it, so at the very least it was a memory I've believed for many years. Beyond that there's probably no way to know for certain what really happened.

Yet there are other episodes of strangeness that she remembers just fine and can talk about, some of which seem much more frightening to me than this particular episode. It's like walking through a field of hidden holes - some areas are fine and solid, other areas will disappear under your step without warning.

Thinking back, my mother was much the same. She was able to sense things, but they disturbed her and she didn't like to acknowledge them. From small things she had mentioned over the years, I gather she had some experiences that frightened her badly and she wanted nothing to do with thinking about them. When strange things happened in our home (which was pretty regularly) she would insist that nothing at all was unusual. I know part of it was denial from her own fear, but I think part of it was also an attempt to reassure me and keep me from being afraid. Unfortunately, it just made things worse. I knew strange things were going on whether she would admit to it or not, but her reactions left me with no one to talk to about it. She was clearly more frightened of it than I was - I wanted to examine things and learn more about what was going on, she wanted to pretend nothing was happening. It was very isolating.

 

[Scheherazade]

Good morning Straycat,

Have you ckecked this article from SOTT:

http://www.sott.net/article/291699-Expectation-is-important-Seeing-is-not-always-remembering

 

[Straycat]

Good morning Straycat,

Have you ckecked this article from SOTT:

http://www.sott.net/article/291699-Expectation-is-important-Seeing-is-not-always-remembering

Yes, and it's interesting. If I'm reading it correctly, it relates to whether or not we remember details based on whether we consider them important at the time. Which could definitely make remembering small glitches we might not have paid much attention to at the time problematic.

 

[Galaxia2002]

Hi Straycat here I leave you another links from SOTT on memory that can be useful:

http://www.livescience.com/15385-widespread-memory-myths.html

http://www.sott.net/article/225677-Memory-Can-Be-Manipulated-Scientists-Claim

and this is in spanish ( you can use a translator) that is relevant to your case. It talk about how imagination can change past memories:

http://es.sott.net/article/21717-La-imaginacion-puede-alterar-nuestros-sentidos-y-nuestra-relacion-con-la-realidad