Conversations With the Crow by Gregory Douglas

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Couple pages in this book "Conversations with Crow" created big sensation in Indian media this week and all over the place. This is related to death of India's 2nd prime minister Lal Bahadur Shastri in 1966, which is considered as biggest mystery of India since independence. Shastri died in Tashkent, Soviet union day after signing a peace treaty with Pakistan at the conclusion of 1965 war. No investigation or postmortem done, no details of his death, Indian govt. doesn't have record of those and they have only one document which was sealed it saying "national security". Shastri's family (mother or wife or children) were NOT convinced of official narration of "heart attack" as they seen some blue marks which are sign of poisoning- any villager can identify them. Now, Shastri's descendants are asking Indian Govt. to investigate about it.

Given that Indira Gandhi became PM after him in 1966 and Nehru-Gandhi clan (Modi calls "Gandi Name holders") ran the country since 1947. there were rumors'/mystery/conspiracy surrounding it ever since. One theory says Indira Gandhi conspired with USSR to get rid of him. But that doesn't make sense given that Indira was given the option of being PM after her father's death which she declined and she has clout of getting that back whenever she wants. Official secrecy only feeds this. Other theory says KGB did it, but no body knows what that motive is. so the mystery simmered since his death.

In this book ( page 166 onwards), Crowley mentions CIA assassinated PM Shastri and father of Indian Nuclear program Homi Bhaba to discourage india making nuclear bomb which it built in 1974 any way.

GD: I am a man of sorrows and acquainted with rage, Robert. How about the Company setting off a small A-bomb in some hitherto harmless
country and blaming it on mice?
RTC: Now that’s something we never did. In fact, we prevented at least one nuclear disaster.
GD: What? A humanitarian act? Why, I am astounded, Robert. Do tell me about this.
RTC: Now, now, Gregory, sometimes we can discuss serious business. There were times when we prevented terrible catastrophes and tried to secure more peace. We had trouble, you know, with India back in the 60s when they got uppity and started work on an atomic bomb. Loud mouthed cow-lovers bragging about how clever they were and how they, too, were going to be a great power in the world. The thing is, they were getting into
bed with the Russians. Of course, Pakistan was in bed with the chinks, so India had to find another bed partner. And we did not want them to have any
kind of nuclear weaponry because God knows what they would have done with it. Probably strut their stuff like a Washington nigger with a brass watch.
Probably nuke the Pakis. They’re all a bunch of neo-coons anyway. Oh, yes, and their head expert was fully capable of building a bomb and we knew just
what he was up to. He was warned several times but what an arrogant prick that one was. Told our people to fuck off and then made it clear that no one
would stop him and India from getting nuclear parity with the big boys. Loudmouths bring it all down on themselves. Do you know about any of
this?
GD: Not my area of interest or expertise. Who is this joker, anyway?
RTC: Was, Gregory, let’s use the past tense, if you please. Name was Homi Bhabha. That one was dangerous, believe me. He had an unfortunate accident. He was flying to Vienna to stir up more trouble, when his 707 had a bomb go off in the cargo hold and they all came down on a high mountain way up in the Alps. No real evidence and the world was much safer.
GD: Was Ali Baba alone on the plane?
RTC: No it was a commercial Air India flight.
GD: How many people went down with him?
RTC: Ah, who knows and frankly, who cares?
GD: I suppose if I had a relative on the flight I would care.
RTC: Did you?
GD: No.
RTC: Then don’t worry about it. We could have blown it up over Vienna but we decided the high mountains were much better for the bits and pieces to come down on. I think a possible death or two among mountain goats is much preferable than bringing down a huge plane right over a big
city.
GD: I think that there were more than goats, Robert.
RTC: Well, aren’t we being a bleeding-heart today?
GD: Now, now, it’s not an observation that is unexpected. Why not send him a box of poisoned candy? Shoot him in the street? Blow up his car?
I mean, why ace a whole plane full of people?
RTC: Well, I call it as it see it. At the time, it was our best shot. And we nailed Shastri as well. Another cow-loving raghead. Gregory, you say
you don’t know about these people. Believe me, they were close to getting a bomb and so what if they nuked their deadly Paki enemies? So what? Too
many people in both countries. Breed like rabbits and full of snake-worshipping twits. I don’t for the life of me see what the Brits wanted in India. And then threaten us? They were in the sack with the Russians, I told you. Maybe they could nuke the Panama Canal or Los Angeles. We don’t know that for sure, but it is not impossible.
GD: Who was Shastri?
RTC: A political type who started the program in the first place. Babha was a genius and he could get things done, so we aced both of them. And we let certain people there know that there was more where that came from. We should have hit the chinks, too, while we were at it, but they were a tougher target. Did I tell you about the idea to wipe out Asia’s rice crops? We developed a disease that would have wiped rice off the map there and it’s their staple diet. The fucking rice growers here got wind of it and raised such a stink we canned the whole thing. The theory was that the disease could
spread around and hurt their pocketbooks. If the Mao people invade Alaska, we can tell the rice people it’s all their fault.
GD: I suppose we might make friends with them.
RTC: With the likes of them? Not at all, Gregory. The only thing the Communists understand is brute force. India was quieter after Bhabha croaked. We could never get to Mao but at one time, the Russians and we were discussing the how and when of the project. Oh yes, sometimes we do business with the other side. Probably more than you realize.

It was interesting that Stalin's poisoning by Western sources came up in the recent session.

This CIA involvement of Shastri's death makes sense though one has to wonder about the arrogance and short sightedness of their thinking. If CIA did it, even KGB knows about it. If KGB confess it, they have to admit that KGB is infiltrated by CIA. It could easily be sections of KGB sold Shastri to Americans for some thing in return. That's why neither India or Soviet Union open their mouth.

They know that assassination can't stop India from making nuclear bomb as it lost a war with China in 1962 which was in the process of building it at that time. Any way CIA did it( part of their "fun and games"/dirty tricks) with a pretext that it doesn't want Soviet friendly countries to have nuclear bombs.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1549672186331336705

Here is one video.

These conversations ( between Robert Trumbull Crowley and Gregory Douglas) happed in 1990's , Crowley died in 2000, initial parts were published in late 2000's and this 800 page book ( as per amazon page) was published in 2013.

There is a Bollywood movie called The Tashkent Files ( with big names of the industry) was made in 2019 with different theories including possible CIA role. Despite all the official movie review as being the worst movie ( politically motivated, worst researched and so on) , the movie is a silent success. India's English media is run by liberals with their allegiance to Nehru-Gandhi clan establishment. so theory is not new, but it is picked up by every body now. Why?

I got this book to understand what was said about other topics. Only skimmed through few searches. Well, the first impressions is the book is like a summation of all the conspiracies facts SOTT ever published in the form of psycho's gloating over their "fun and games" in a cynical way.

 

[seek10]

I got this book to understand what was said about other topics. Only skimmed through few searches. Well, the first impressions is the book is like a summation of all the conspiracies facts SOTT ever published in the form of psycho's gloating over their "fun and games" in a cynical way.

I was reading this book. What ever Crowley is saying about the inner working, different deeds "Company" did all looks reasonably correct based on what I read on SOTT or C's . But, one thing that keeps making hard to believe is the "mischiefs" Gregory Douglas claims in these conversations.

This makes me wonder whether this book is a fiction of over imaginative person to present the truth in the format of conversations between him and an insider (real Crowley who was already dead)? If that is true, every thing he says has to be taken with grain of salt. Poor graphics on the book covers doesn't make sense. If Gregory is so powerful to make CIA bigwigs shiver, can't he manage to proper graphics for his book? Something seriously off.

 

[seek10]

I was reading this book. What ever Crowley is saying about the inner working, different deeds "Company" did all looks reasonably correct based on what I read on SOTT or C's . But, one thing that keeps making hard to believe is the "mischiefs" Gregory Douglas claims in these conversations.

This makes me wonder whether this book is a fiction of over imaginative person to present the truth in the format of conversations between him and an insider (real Crowley who was already dead)? If that is true, every thing he says has to be taken with grain of salt. Poor graphics on the book covers doesn't make sense. If Gregory is so powerful to make CIA bigwigs shiver, can't he manage to proper graphics for his book? Something seriously off.

This led me to search who Gregory Douglas is. I came across this Real History and Fakers, Forgers, and Counterfeiters. It was also mentioned in another old thread. Then all is not fiction.

Peter Stahl aka Gregory Douglas has authored a new book based, what else, on unknown recently discovered secret documents about the assassination of President John F Kennedy. The website of the publisher of this Machwerk provides the following biographical details about the author, below, which we reproduced unedited apart from a few annotations in gray boxes to the right.

Gregory Douglas, 59, was born in Colorado. His older brother served in the Counter Intelligence during the Korean war and from him, Gregory became deeply interested in the arcane world of spy-counterspy.

AMAZING, or perhaps not, how the career of "Gregory Douglas" dovetails into and runs parallel with the career of the fraudster and admitted Rodin counterfeiter Peter Stahl. See the July 22, 1981 diary entry describing my first meetings with Stahl, who proudly hinted at his own forging of Rodin statues. He was Peter Stahl then, not Gregory Douglas; they do say you need a good long-term memory to be a successful liar. As for Odilo Globocnig, see Stahl's involvement in furnishing the fake Globocnig documents to Gitta Sereny. It was not Stahl/Douglas who exposed to the authorities the serious mass theft of files from the Berlin Document Center, but I! Stahl's participation appeared, uh, rather to be on the other side of that particular felony.

He has published four works on Hitler's Gestapo Chief, Heinrich Müller (The 1948 Interrogation of Gestapo Chief Heinrich Müller, vols. 1-3, Müller Journals: The Washington Years), which were translated into German, Russian, and Japanese. A fifth volume is in preparation. Müller was hired by the CIA in 1948 and worked for the CIA and the Truman administration to fight Stalinist infiltration in the U.S. It was this Müller who instigated the McCarthy hysteria. The material for these books partly stems from Heinrich Müller himself, who was a friend of the author, and partly from Robert T. Crowley, whose involvement with Gestapo-Müller was confirmed in 2001 by Joseph Trento in his The Secret History of the CIA.

Mr. Douglas is an editor of the 'Military Advisor' magazine, a contributor to historical journals both in the United States and Europe. As an investigative reporter, Mr. Douglas wrote a series of articles on art frauds that resulted in exposure of the notorious Rodin frauds, and was instrumental in uncovering massive thefts from a secure Department of State archive in Berlin in 1995. In 2000, his historical research led him to the discovery of a treasure of gold coins buried beside an Austrian lake by a fleeing Nazi leader, Odilio Globocnik. Presently, Mr. Douglas is working on several other books about recent historical topics, using documents obtained from the late R. T. Crowley, former Assistant Deputy Director of Clandestine Operations for the CIA.

3. What have you done to verify that the documents reproduced in the book are genuine?
The author G. Douglas became acquainted with Robert Crowley in 1993 through the offices of John Costello, the British writer. When Douglas published his books based on the papers of and interviews with Heinrich Müller, once head of the German Gestapo and latterly a CIA employee, Bob Crowley proved to be most helpful with documents. He had worked with Müller in Washington and said so to a number of Washington officials who hated Douglas' books. Douglas spoke with Bob Crowley at least twice a week from 1993 through 1996. In that year, he went into hospital for exploratory surgery.

This proved to be too great a shock to his system and his short-term memory which was none too good, failed completely. Prior to his hospitalization, Crowley sent Douglas two largish boxes of documents. He did so because if he died on the table, as he feared, he thought that Emily, his charming wife, would not know what to do with his papers. He felt that Douglas could use some, or all, of these in future writing projects. The caveat was that Douglas could not use them until Crowley's death. Bob Crowley died in October of 2000 and the caveat expired.

When Douglas put it about that he had sent him documents, he was visited by an official agency and told that he might get into "serious legal trouble" if he did not promptly give them everything. This threat alone was revealing. G. Douglas responded to this threat by putting a list of CIA people (some 4,000), which Crowley had given to him, up on the Internet. He has not been approached since. Most "questioned document" specialists who are usually approached to verify the authenticity of documents work for the Justice Department. But if the documents shown in the book are genuine, the whole government was behind the Kennedy assassination and can therefore not be trusted. Hence, Douglas bypassed them.

Note
Photocopies -- a familiar Peter Stahl trick. He knows that makes it harder to test the authenticity of documents (though not impossible). Not many people know that on orders of the US Treasury Department, every modern colour copier sold in the US has a digital dot code built into its dot-matrix system which fingerprints its serial-number, i.e. its identity and exposes would-be counterfeiters. Stahl had nothing whatever to do with exposing the infamous Hitler Diaries in 1983.
Note incidentally his curious preoccupation with typewriter-authenticity. . !

Having been involved in exposing the notorious "Hitler Diary" fraud some years ago, Gregory Douglas had learned that "document specialists" will either authenticate or deny anything they are paid, or told to do. All documents received from R.T. Crowley are photocopies. There are no "originals."

Given that, all an "expert" can do is to verify the origins and time frame of the typewriters used, the originality of the one letterhead (Defense Intelligence Agency) and the signature of the person on the cover letter. To this end, G. Douglas has had several typewriter specialists look at the documents. It is their unanamous opinion that the machines used were of the period. It was also confirmed that Colonel Driscoll was indeed in the position indicated on the cover letter during the time in question and that all of the individuals mentioned in the documents were also in place at the time of the ZIPPER operation.

Additionally, the material contained in these documents is of such a detailed and highly confidential nature as to preclude someone forging them. If the government does not like what G. Douglas publishes, it is for them to prove that the supporting documents are not authentic. This is not the author's responsibility. Also, Douglas ignores statements such as "I just cannot believe this" or "We talked to the widow of so and so and she said her husband could never have been involved in such business."

Statements like these are completely worthless and to be ignored for what they are: self-serving nonsense. Gregory Douglas has shown a number of the Crowley files to friends of his who have served in various U.S. and foreign intelligence organs for years, and not one of them questions the authenticity of the material, although all deplore its revelation to a public that will certainly have no problem with belief.

In the final analysis, it doesn't matter what the official establishment thinks -- if, in fact, they think at all. The American public does not believe controversial matters until they are officially denied in Washington. The publisher's memo is one thing but the matters set forth in the book are not circumstantial. For instance, the official log of the plotters is far more than circumstantial but the key document, a lengthy, signed report by the DIA is most explicit in stating that the CIA killed Kennedy and sets forth their very plausible reasons and evidence. In contrast to the other thousands of authors who wrote books on the assassination of JFK, Gregory Douglas is in the fortunate position of having documentation. If there was any other public documentation, it has been long ago destroyed or hidden. After all, that Imperial British couplet, very popular at the turn of the last century, may be recalled: "Whatever happens, we have got the Maxim gun, which they have not."

4. Why would R.T. Crowley give those documents to you and not to a high profile investigative journalist, like Seymour Hersh?
During the final years of his life, R.T. Crowley was a very lonely person, abandoned by former friends and colleagues. One of the few person he was able to talk to in these years was Gregory Douglas. He was Crowley's last and most loyal friend. By publishing his controversial books on Gestapo Müller, Douglas had furthermore proven to Crowley that this author had the courage to publish historically and politically highly controversial material, writing it according to the documentary evidence instead of bowing, bending and falsifying it on the altar of the political correctness. Finally, Crowley quickly realized that Douglas was highly suspicious of any authority and very sophisticated and experienced in dealing with them, which is a necessary prerequisite if one wants to publish material that the power elite wishes to supress. It was therefore only natural for Crowley to give all his documents to this loyal and skilled friend.

5. Why is this book not published by one of America's major publishing houses?
Major publishing houses have a great deal to lose -- money, reputation, influence, power -- and therefore are very susceptible to official pressure. They also are very often "mainstream" and pay attention to what is wanted or expected from the establishment even without pressure. Gregory Douglas therefore chose a small, dedicated publisher who will be loyal to this project, what ever may happen.