Covert aggression
- Thread starter jetmk
- Start date
jetmk said:
Welcome to the Forum, jetmk. Have you had a chance to read any of the Forum's recommended books or possibly you've read some of these already?:
Narcissism "Big Five"
Myth of Sanity - Martha Stout
The Narcissistic Family - Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman and Robert M. Pressman
Trapped in the Mirror - Elan Golomb
Unholy Hungers - Barbara E. Hort
In Sheep's Clothing - George K. Simon
Psychopathy
The Sociopath Next Door - Martha Stout
Snakes in Suits - Robert Hare and Paul Babiak
Without Conscience - Robert Hare
The Mask of Sanity - Hervey Cleckley
Political Ponerology - Andrzej Lobaczewski
Hi,
Thank you, both.
I'll check the library tomorrow for In Sheep's Clothing.
Helle, he does not want to change. If he wanted to change, could he?
Here's a little bit of my recent history: He asked me for a divorce two months ago after he "snapped" because I was upset that he was at a female friend's house until 12:30 a.m. He said he can't live with my "psychotic jealousy" anymore. However, the two previous times he was with this friend, he stayed out until the following morning. He said under the circumstances, she is his best friend and her husband passed away this past April, I should know better than to think something is going on between them.
He stood his ground for six weeks. He told me several times he was done with me and wasn't in love with me anymore. Two weeks ago when I started filling out applications for apartments he had a change of heart. He said he was confused and scared that he was making the wrong decision by asking for a divorce. We became affectionate again but, as he put it, were taking baby steps, because we weren't officially back together.
Okay, this past Friday, I noticed a condom was missing. He won't even "justify" trying to find it, because he is so hurt that I even checked. There is no denying one is missing. He has been giving me the cold shoulder ever since.
I'm so tired of seeing him play the victim when I'm the true victim. I know I need to leave him. Unfortunately, I still love him very much. I hope I will have the strength to leave when the time comes.
Thank you, both.
I'll check the library tomorrow for In Sheep's Clothing.
Helle, he does not want to change. If he wanted to change, could he?
Here's a little bit of my recent history: He asked me for a divorce two months ago after he "snapped" because I was upset that he was at a female friend's house until 12:30 a.m. He said he can't live with my "psychotic jealousy" anymore. However, the two previous times he was with this friend, he stayed out until the following morning. He said under the circumstances, she is his best friend and her husband passed away this past April, I should know better than to think something is going on between them.
He stood his ground for six weeks. He told me several times he was done with me and wasn't in love with me anymore. Two weeks ago when I started filling out applications for apartments he had a change of heart. He said he was confused and scared that he was making the wrong decision by asking for a divorce. We became affectionate again but, as he put it, were taking baby steps, because we weren't officially back together.
Okay, this past Friday, I noticed a condom was missing. He won't even "justify" trying to find it, because he is so hurt that I even checked. There is no denying one is missing. He has been giving me the cold shoulder ever since.
I'm so tired of seeing him play the victim when I'm the true victim. I know I need to leave him. Unfortunately, I still love him very much. I hope I will have the strength to leave when the time comes.
Jetmk, on top of all the other reading materials suggested, I would also recommend two of Sandra L. Brown's works. They are How To Spot A Dangerous Man and Women Who Love Psychopaths. You can also visit Sandra's website to find out more about what you can do to get out of abusive relationships - http://saferelationships.com/. Remember, just because someone isn't physically abusing you, doesn't mean that you aren't dealing with abuse, whether it be mental, emotional, or spiritual. I certainly hope you continue to have the strength to deal with your situation as you see fit.
Helle
Jedi Master
jetmk said:Hi,
Thank you, both.
I'll check the library tomorrow for In Sheep's Clothing.
Helle, he does not want to change. If he wanted to change, could he?
Here's a little bit of my recent history: He asked me for a divorce two months ago after he "snapped" because I was upset that he was at a female friend's house until 12:30 a.m. He said he can't live with my "psychotic jealousy" anymore. However, the two previous times he was with this friend, he stayed out until the following morning. He said under the circumstances, she is his best friend and her husband passed away this past April, I should know better than to think something is going on between them.
He stood his ground for six weeks. He told me several times he was done with me and wasn't in love with me anymore. Two weeks ago when I started filling out applications for apartments he had a change of heart. He said he was confused and scared that he was making the wrong decision by asking for a divorce. We became affectionate again but, as he put it, were taking baby steps, because we weren't officially back together.
Okay, this past Friday, I noticed a condom was missing. He won't even "justify" trying to find it, because he is so hurt that I even checked. There is no denying one is missing. He has been giving me the cold shoulder ever since.
I'm so tired of seeing him play the victim when I'm the true victim. I know I need to leave him. Unfortunately, I still love him very much. I hope I will have the strength to leave when the time comes.
Well, if you were my close friend, I would not hesitate a moment by telling you, that you need to take very good care of yourself!
Seems to me you already know what to do.. get out now, and don't EVEN look back.
While packing your stuff, you might want to ponder, which lesson it is you're supposed to learn here, as as to not repeat it :/
Can he change? Maybe he can. But don't stick around being made a fool of, while you wait it out IMO.
I really recommend you read the links provided by Heimdallr, and the books recommended also.
I hope you'll get a hand on some of the recommended reading material, that might help you to better understand, what kind of person he is (or seems to be, from your desription).
iloveyoghurt
Jedi
This is a term that was new to me, until I read Wolves in Sheep's Clothing.
When I was in a domestic situation, of which I am still steadying myself from, I knew he was doing something but I just couldn't define it. I am familiar with what passive aggressive is, I understand the distinction; I recognised his behaviour wasn't passive aggressive, I didn't recognise or have a reference for what it was though. I am curious about this term covert aggressive now, and the strategies and motivations behind it. It concerns me that I couldn't protect myself effectively, and there's a drive in me that wishes to understand what it was that I was experiencing, believing that part of my healing lies in this understanding. But then, on the other hand, maybe it's best to forget about it, and return my life to joy asap, maybe trying to understand it actually hypervigilance, and it only keeps me locked in trauma?
To describe it, it was like I was in a fog, my head definitely spinning. I did recognise the warning signs very early - my instincts were working - but I just had nowhere to go. I was treading water for 2 years, living in such anxiety, waiting until I could get away - or for a miracle. I now see how fine the line was that I was walking, and I'm paying for it now, like I hoped I wouldn't, but suspected I might.
I wonder what he got out of it? How does a person get anything by making another person miserable? By pushing another to terror?
These are the questions I have left with me after the experience. It does worry me that I couldn't see or define it, as well as assert myself, protect myself in the situation, (and maybe others to come?). I made many attempts to, in the end though, I was completely warn down - he became like my minder, I was shaky, frail, and simply losing it.
What he gained, what his motivation was, and if he'll ever have a conscience about it I may never know.
When I was in a domestic situation, of which I am still steadying myself from, I knew he was doing something but I just couldn't define it. I am familiar with what passive aggressive is, I understand the distinction; I recognised his behaviour wasn't passive aggressive, I didn't recognise or have a reference for what it was though. I am curious about this term covert aggressive now, and the strategies and motivations behind it. It concerns me that I couldn't protect myself effectively, and there's a drive in me that wishes to understand what it was that I was experiencing, believing that part of my healing lies in this understanding. But then, on the other hand, maybe it's best to forget about it, and return my life to joy asap, maybe trying to understand it actually hypervigilance, and it only keeps me locked in trauma?
To describe it, it was like I was in a fog, my head definitely spinning. I did recognise the warning signs very early - my instincts were working - but I just had nowhere to go. I was treading water for 2 years, living in such anxiety, waiting until I could get away - or for a miracle. I now see how fine the line was that I was walking, and I'm paying for it now, like I hoped I wouldn't, but suspected I might.
I wonder what he got out of it? How does a person get anything by making another person miserable? By pushing another to terror?
These are the questions I have left with me after the experience. It does worry me that I couldn't see or define it, as well as assert myself, protect myself in the situation, (and maybe others to come?). I made many attempts to, in the end though, I was completely warn down - he became like my minder, I was shaky, frail, and simply losing it.
What he gained, what his motivation was, and if he'll ever have a conscience about it I may never know.
RyanX
The Living Force
iloveyellow said:
Hi iloveyellow,
Can you describe some examples of just how your ex partner (I presume) behaved in a "covert aggressive" manner? I don't mean to be picky here, but what you describe sounds like overt aggressive behavior, but it's hard to say given what you've written. It might confuse other readers who are looking for examples of covert aggression.
iloveyoghurt
Jedi
Hi RyanX,
that's the uncomfortable thing, I cannot always grasp it because
1) it is by definition, underhanded, disguised and hidden, and
2) it's very far from my own reality - I'm a very open person and cannot relate to it
3) I have mental blocks associated with the trauma when my mind returns there, I can only seem to skim around the edges yet
Passive aggressive is when someone wishes to make an assertion but isn't able to do so overtly, so it comes out, kind of a bit retarded and frustrated. It's like a simmer of frustration, or a pregnant atmosphere, as though something needs to be said.
Cover aggression on the other hand, is like living with a sniper. The person is acting deliberately to undermine, confuse or be destructive or purposely inharmonious.
It was often overt also. It was in retrospect that I understood all the foggy bits, the confusion and nonsensical arguments. The pennies dropped and I had a few ah-huh moments, seeing that they were all part of the "situation".
I have only begun going there again mentally recently. It is happening slowly, my mind seems to know it's own pace. I almost get a headache of resistance when I go back there (I don't ever otherwise get headaches). I was speaking to a friend for the first time 2 weekends ago about things that this person did, and said, and I started shaking terribly. It was a real indication for me.
If I come up with anything I will post it. I am working through it in therapy so I'm sure something will come up.
that's the uncomfortable thing, I cannot always grasp it because
1) it is by definition, underhanded, disguised and hidden, and
2) it's very far from my own reality - I'm a very open person and cannot relate to it
3) I have mental blocks associated with the trauma when my mind returns there, I can only seem to skim around the edges yet
Passive aggressive is when someone wishes to make an assertion but isn't able to do so overtly, so it comes out, kind of a bit retarded and frustrated. It's like a simmer of frustration, or a pregnant atmosphere, as though something needs to be said.
Cover aggression on the other hand, is like living with a sniper. The person is acting deliberately to undermine, confuse or be destructive or purposely inharmonious.
It was often overt also. It was in retrospect that I understood all the foggy bits, the confusion and nonsensical arguments. The pennies dropped and I had a few ah-huh moments, seeing that they were all part of the "situation".
I have only begun going there again mentally recently. It is happening slowly, my mind seems to know it's own pace. I almost get a headache of resistance when I go back there (I don't ever otherwise get headaches). I was speaking to a friend for the first time 2 weekends ago about things that this person did, and said, and I started shaking terribly. It was a real indication for me.
If I come up with anything I will post it. I am working through it in therapy so I'm sure something will come up.
RyanX
The Living Force
iloveyellow said:
That is true, the very fact that it is covert makes it difficult to grasp. But certainly something must have happened for you to suspect that he might be trying to undermine you outside of your general awareness? I think it's important to go with the facts whenever possible; sometimes relying solely on our feelings (especially in a relationship dynamic) can lead our thinking astray.
When I think of covert aggressive behavior, the big example that comes to mind is one partner badmouthing the other partner to friends or family behind their back. Trying to knock them down a level in the eyes of others without them really knowing about it. Typically, you wouldn't know about any covert aggressive behavior unless you heard it from others or caught him in the act somehow, osit.
iloveyellow said:
My understanding is that passive aggressive behavior is basically a resistance to following through with expectations. One example might be giving a partner the "silent treatment" instead of openly communicating problems. Another might be deliberately slacking off when it comes to chores or other responsibilities, making life difficult for the other person in subtle ways. It can be a "covert" form of abuse too and that's where the terminology can get confusing. But you're right, it's not exactly the same as being covert aggressive.
iloveyellow said:
No worries, take your time and go at what pace is comfortable for you. :)
iloveyoghurt
Jedi
Thanks for expanding on the definitions, I had forgotten about those situations (dishes example).
In regards to my situation, a recent example is certainly whereby this person has been carrying on behind my back. We had a mutual friend who has turned against me due to this nonsense, and also because this mutual friend has a professional interest in this person I was involved with, or so I have figured.
Everyone just feeding off eachother, I feel like I'm in a fishbowl.
But of course there's always more details, and it's so awful and pedestrian, the whole thing makes my head spin, and quite queasy when I think of it, my feet are sweating now thinking of it, my jaw is tightening from resistance. I am shy to discuss it also, as when I go to fill out details, such as mentioning that I had known this friend of mine for appox 10 years, I already anticipate assumptions made about me, and can hear questioning from the listener: "well, you must have done something awful too if such a close friend has turned against you". Generally I've been avoiding discussing much until I get myself steady, and am more confident in being able to manage my mind in a situation that I might interpret as confrontational.
Such are the ripple affects of these situations, it can rummage through all the other areas of a persons life. I've got a lot of work to do around this
In regards to my situation, a recent example is certainly whereby this person has been carrying on behind my back. We had a mutual friend who has turned against me due to this nonsense, and also because this mutual friend has a professional interest in this person I was involved with, or so I have figured.
Everyone just feeding off eachother, I feel like I'm in a fishbowl.
But of course there's always more details, and it's so awful and pedestrian, the whole thing makes my head spin, and quite queasy when I think of it, my feet are sweating now thinking of it, my jaw is tightening from resistance. I am shy to discuss it also, as when I go to fill out details, such as mentioning that I had known this friend of mine for appox 10 years, I already anticipate assumptions made about me, and can hear questioning from the listener: "well, you must have done something awful too if such a close friend has turned against you". Generally I've been avoiding discussing much until I get myself steady, and am more confident in being able to manage my mind in a situation that I might interpret as confrontational.
Such are the ripple affects of these situations, it can rummage through all the other areas of a persons life. I've got a lot of work to do around this
