Current Recomendations on Supplements 2015

[SummerLite]

Hello! It is time to make changes in my diet and supplementation is an ongoing study it seems. After studying the forum here for a few days I must say I'm overwhelmed and also unclear about what is recommended currently. There is SO much information and recommendations change over the years, not to mention the contradictions. Take omega 3's for instance, are people who are keto adapted just eating fish 2x's a week for this now? I had decided adding this supplement (krill oil perhaps) would be beneficial but perhaps going for the fish would be best. The omega 3's are a gray area for me, the benefits of cod liver oil, Nordic Naturals are all recommended here then dismissed ???? I'm not keto at this point, just eliminating sugars, gluten, grains and I'm rather attached to dairy so I'm considering that. I guess it has to go. I have added daily vit c which is great, I can tell the difference at 2000 mg a day and also magnesium. But so far these are the only supplement I'm sure about taking on a daily bases.

With current research is there a list of daily recommendation people are taking here? I'm sure that much depends on individual needs and research for that is important individually. I'd like to have some guidance on what I can add to my daily supplementation.

Thank you! :) p.s. I'm also taking a daily muti vit/min called Alive! by Nature's Way.

 

[Sinapi]

Hi SummerLite,

I'm curious about this, too. There's a summary of the keto diet recommendations here: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,34581.msg511468.html#msg511468 . I haven't been as active on the forum as I used to be, so I've had trouble keeping up with the diet threads as well. A brief search of Gaby's document tells me that minimal supplementation is required when one is on a low-fiber ketogenic diet (with plenty of bone broth for minerals and other goodies), as excess fiber can bind to minerals we'd otherwise absorb, in addition to damaging our intestinal lining, which prevents further absorption. Omega-3s are still good, and are beneficial to getting a proper omega-6 to omega-3 ratio, but are required less if one eats grassfed/pastured fats and smaller species of fish regularly. Vitamin C is good to supplement with if you're sick, but be sure to have your iron levels checked in case you could have excess amounts (see http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=20265.0). I'd continue using it if you're having positive results, as long as it's to bowel tolerance. When you're keto-adapted, however, the need for vitamin C decreases significantly. I recall this being because your body uses uric acid in place of vitamin C when low-carb, but I can't find that source at the moment.

Magnesium, imo, will always be an essential supplement because the soil has been so depleted. I take that at least a few times per week. When I'm without liver for a while, I'll supplement with a B50 complex to get enough folate and other B vitamins in my diet (beef and chicken are surprisingly deficient in some), but I don't know if others do this.

Edit: I looked up your multivitamin/mineral. I'd ditch it because of all the extra fruits and veggies added to it, especially wheatgrass! You could be sensitive to one or more of these things, which could impede gut healing and thus absorptivity. I don't think a multivitamin would hurt, but I would get a hypoallergenic one without so much extra in it. Additionally, I would avoid a multimineral because the extra iron might hurt you if you have undiagnosed hemochromatosis; you probably get plenty from red meat and organs. Magnesium and bone broth should provide enough minerals for you.

 

[Laura]

I've cut way back on supplements since we eat mainly meat and fat, a few veggies, and a treat once in awhile. BUT I've been doing this "re-mineralization" thing that is supposed to encourage restoration of dental bones since I have some bone loss there. It consists of:

Vitamins A, E, D3, K2
Trace mineral supp.
15 mg additional zinc
Potassium plus iodine
Alpha Lipoic Acid
Chromium Piccolinate
NADH
L-Carnitine
NAC

I take all of those during the day for two days in a row, then skip, then two days.. etc. Every other day would work too, possibly. Sometimes I get a funny metallic taste in my mouth on days I take them.

And, of course, I take my magnesium at night. I've found another form that seems to work better: Magnesium Threonate. I only have to take two of them as opposed to 5 or 6 of the other kinds.

I have been doing this for three weeks. Supposedly, you see definite results about 6 weeks. We saw pictures of people whose dental cavities actually healed. Well, obviously, my teeth with root canals aren't going to re-grow, but if I can just get some of the bone back, I'll be happy.

 

[SummerLite]

Thanks so much! Excellent information zlyja! I've read through the Ketoadaptation - Consensus thread and book marked Gaby's book, just what I needed! I've totally missed this discussion somehow and all the helpful info there. I see now how I've gotten side tracked. What I need to do is concentrate on my diet and that will help with my over all health instead of focusing on the supplements although I think they have there place just now :D

Good tip on the vit c and iron issues, missed that one too. I think I'll cut back to 500mg unless I'm getting sick. Its a good example of getting lost here with all the information and ending up missing something important and doing something also recommended somewhere else

Hey, thanks for looking up those vitamins for me, good points. I'll look for something different. This brand is very popular it seems at my local Vitamin Cottage and they recommended it. I skimmed Gaby's book and I'm sure I'll find much needed nutritional info there. I need to get the bone broth going!

Hi Laura, thanks for your reply also. So interesting to hear how you've cut back on your supplements so much. Things have changed a lot over the years I see. Says much about the diet. Good luck with your bone growing back. If this has results it could be a wonderful thing for a lot of people. I worked as a dental hygienist for many years and bone lose is a major problem for so many. Actually getting that to stop and reverse is unheard of in the main stream as far as I know, but then again I had to offer fluoride treatments to people so what do they know anyway? My best to you!

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yeah, I don't take supplements much anymore either. But I've been in ketosis since late February of 2011. While transitioning/adapting to ketogenic diet, supplements are still important and help a lot - such as acetyl l-carnitine, etc. Look into the transition/adaption period info by searching on this board. But after a while, you don't really need to supplement much if you're eating only high-quality grass-fed/pastured animal based food. Since you're still not on a ketogenic diet though, you just have to research and try what works for you. By the way, there are plenty of multimineral supplements (some that also include multvitamins) without iron, including ionic liquid mineral drops. Also if you supplement with vitamin C, just do it as far away from meals as possible to avoid extra iron absorption. And when fully keto adapted, you don't need to supplement vitamin C unless sick (and I don't ever get sick when in ketosis), though you can if you want (the more carbs one eats the more they need vitamin c - I'm usually almost 0 carbs). Hope this helps.

 

[SummerLite]

Hi SeekenTruth, yes, this is helpful. Quite a revelation for me, never even considered that not needing supplements to any degree was a factor with ketosis. Most of the material I've been reading here just recently about supplements was before the keto diet came in I guess. The whole subject is vast, contradictory and complicated. All this is based on the standard, glucose diet it seems. A few months ago I began learning about this way of eating. Cut out breads, flour products, sugar etc. then got side tracked and any further adaption stopped. So back to square one. One of my major issues in life is my health I'd say. I started years ago learning about nutrition but this is a whole new field for me.

The mineral drops sound good. I drink only reverse osmosis water so no minerals there. I do occasionally add a little Himalayan sea salt to that but need to be more aware of the minerals.
Thanks!

Anyone else out there want to share their supplement story?

 

[Sinapi]

Hi SummerLite,

You're welcome! SeekinTruth is right about how some supplements can help you transition. I've also been in ketosis for a few years, but I forgot about the transition period. In addition to acetyl L-carnitine (which helps convert fat to energy), it's important to take more sodium and potassium whenever you're ready to experiment with keto, because the diet is diuretic at first and could cause cramping and fatigue (the "keto flu"). I mix my own lite salt: half sodium chloride, half potassium chloride, and add it to my broth. Adding salt seems so normal that I don't really consider it a supplement, but I guess it kind of is. It's also extremely important to take betaine HCL and ox bile for as long as you need it to help digest fat on keto, because many people don't produce enough stomach acid and bile on a high-carb diet. If you've had your gallbladder removed, then unfortunately I think you'd need to take the HCL and bile every day.

In the mean time, since you're getting off gluten, sugar, and dairy, NAC, L-glutamine, and milk thistle are useful supplements to help detoxify your body and heal your gut and liver. You may also want to consider doing one of the heavy metal detox protocols, in which case you should follow the appropriate supplement regimens found in those threads. A multimineral without iron would probably be beneficial, then, before you're keto-adapted and your intestinal absorption improves, particularly to get iodine and other trace minerals. I personally like adding kelp to my meals for iodine, but if you have thyroid issues or feel any sensitivity to it whatsoever, I'd avoid it and stick with a supplement. Sorry for throwing the baby out with the bathwater on that one.

 

[SummerLite]

Hi! Thanks again, more excellent advise zlyja! I am considering the mercury/heavy metal detox. I have silver fillings....yikes :O. I wont be having them removed anytime soon, I'm sure. I found this link for a clay bath detox, mercury and other pollutants while searching the forum recently and thought I'd post it. Looks very intriguing http://www.magneticclay.com/index.html

I will check out that thread and study thoroughly before doing anything but its something I need to do. Just read on another thread the heavy metals in ones system make one more prone to artificial EM energies. Its not a new idea for me but a good reminder.

I go through times, when learning new things like now, where the knowledge of what has happened to our world is kinda scary... :(. Its not for myself but the ones I love that causes my concern. I have to be careful in what I share so as not to overload others and so not help/protect as I wish to do. There is so much going on under the surface of life, unseen. On the surface all seems ok. That's a good thing, to live in a peaceful place. I digress.

The digestive enzymes are a must for me, yes. Thanks for mentioning that along with all the rest, very good.
A very good night to you (or day) :D

 

[mcb]

I had largely given up on supplements, but now I am back taking quite a number of them. This time, I am taking things that were prescribed based on lab tests, and I have made dietary adjustments as well. I will be retesting soon, and the supplements may need to be adjusted after that. It is a highly individualized process, and no list of recommended supplements that I have seen here or anywhere else has come close to what I actually needed.

Choosing tests and reading the results are not something I could have done myself, let alone coming up with a treatment plan. Unfortunately, practitioners that can do it well are in short supply. I had to wait a year or so for a waiting list to open up, and something like another year on the waiting list (the original estimate was even longer). But then I have been trying to discover what's going on with my health most of my life -- I was born with health problems -- and it was well worth the wait to finally have some clarity about it and to begin to take steps to halt the decline I was experiencing.

People that are relatively healthy but have issues that do not respond to dietary adjustments alone may be able to find a practitioner to work with more easily. For those that have more challenging health problems, it is a tough situation.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Yeah, healing the gut takes a while, so taking the supplements zlyja mentioned plus slippery elm helps speed up the process once the problem foods are eliminated.

 

[wanderer]

The mineral drops sound good. I drink only reverse osmosis water so no minerals there. I do occasionally add a little Himalayan sea salt to that but need to be more aware of the minerals.

Water is an insignificant source of minerals AFAIK.

Like others here I pretty much stopped taking supplements once i was keto-adapted and my health dramatically improved. My blood pressure was back to normal after losing 75 lbs, everything seemed great. Then I recently discovered that my blood pressure was now very high again, so I'm going back to my alternative doctor to get tested and back on a supplement program. I'll soon be spending hundreds of dollars a month on supplements no doubt.

My wife gives me a hard time about self diagnosing, and (for once :D) she's right. As the old saying goes "A doctor who treats himself has a fool for a patient"

 

[lainey]

I've cut way back on supplements since we eat mainly meat and fat, a few veggies, and a treat once in awhile. BUT I've been doing this "re-mineralization" thing that is supposed to encourage restoration of dental bones since I have some bone loss there. It consists of:

Vitamins A, E, D3, K2
Trace mineral supp.
15 mg additional zinc
Potassium plus iodine
Alpha Lipoic Acid
Chromium Piccolinate
NADH
L-Carnitine
NAC

I take all of those during the day for two days in a row, then skip, then two days.. etc. Every other day would work too, possibly. Sometimes I get a funny metallic taste in my mouth on days I take them.

And, of course, I take my magnesium at night. I've found another form that seems to work better: Magnesium Threonate. I only have to take two of them as opposed to 5 or 6 of the other kinds.

I have been doing this for three weeks. Supposedly, you see definite results about 6 weeks. We saw pictures of people whose dental cavities actually healed. Well, obviously, my teeth with root canals aren't going to re-grow, but if I can just get some of the bone back, I'll be happy.

Did you notice any results after the 6 week mark?
Also this recent sott article may be of interest to those who haven't seen it already, it says Vitamin A may negate the benefits of Vitamin D3.

http://www.sott.net/article/207234-Vitamin-A-Supplements-May-Negate-Benefits-of-Vitamin-D

"The crux of the problem is that a form of vitamin A, retinoic acid weakly activates the vitamin D response element on the gene and perhaps blocks vitamin D's more robust activation." In fact, the authors of a 1993 study state, "there is a profound inhibition of vitamin D-activated...gene expression by retinoic acid."

The distinction is between various forms of vitamin A. It is the retinoic acid (retinol) form of vitamin A that is problematic. Not beta carotene.

Beta carotene is not a concern because it is PRE-vitamin A. Your body will simply not over-convert beta carotene to excessive levels of vitamin A. So foods with beta carotene or taking beta carotene supplements are not going to interfere with vitamin D.

The summary advice is to avoid cod liver oil, avoid multivitamins that have the retinol form of vitamin A, and eat a variety of colorful vegetables along with limited daily sun exposure.

In addition, use a high quality source of chlorella, an important superfood that is loaded with natural beta carotene