Dealing with covert bullying

aleana said:
Sorry to hear what your son is going through, Arwenn. :hug2: It really makes me angry that this is still so prevalent despite all the attention that bullying has gotten in recent years – but it’s definitely a sign of the continued ponerization of society.

I think that it’s worth talking to someone at the school, because they may have an anti-bullying program; but if they don’t and also if they brush your concerns aside, that will be good ammunition if you need to resort to legal means. And I agree it will be imperative to have as much concrete documentation to provide the lawyers, and that includes all meetings with school officials. I would think that any law firm that decides to work with you will first want to make sure that the school gave you no other options.

Thanks aleana, it makes me so angry too. It sure is a sign of how ponerised our society is. This type of bullying occurs in the workplace too, and they know just how to rope people in. From everyone's input here, I agree that it is worth going and seeing them, at least to make the school aware of what is going on.
 
luc said:
Hi Arwenn,

I noticed that you said twice you "don't want to stir the pot" - I think this is quite understandable, if I was in your position, I would feel the same I think. I just want to say that sometimes "stir the pot" is the right thing to do, so you shouldn't exclude this possibility. Not to say that this is necessarily the right thing in your situation, but if you consider your options rationally and come to the conclusion that some action is warranted, I'd say don't exclude this option out of fear (if you think that fear /be nice programs might be in the way, that is).

From my school years, I remember one particularly nasty bully who got taken down by a few parents standing up - sometimes someone just got to start standing up I think. I think he also was a little violent, which made it easier, but still - me too I was bullied by him (though I wasn't the main target) in similar ways as your son (nasty comments etc.), so in this case, the system worked thanks to some parents.

Also, while it's true that most teachers are useless, there are always some decent ones, maybe it's worth identifying them and talking to them? Is there something like a school counselor, psychological consultant or "trusting teacher", as it was called in my school? But official functions aside, if there is one empathetic teacher who has a track record in making efforts to help in such situations (regardless of whether he/she has anything to do with your son), this might be the right person to talk to confidentially as a first step. - Just some further thoughts.

Thanks for your input luc. It is a very small town, so what happens at school can affect the kids outside of school too, and that's what I am referring to when I say I don't want to stir the pot. Also these kids control the situation by then bullying the student for his mother fighting his battles. So it depends on how diplomatically the school can address this. From all the feedback I am getting, I will go and see the school, at least to inform them of what is going on, and how they can best help. I will also document everything as the others have suggested.
 
Laura said:
I think the most important things are to 1) set an example of proactive efforts to solve the problem; 2) let your child know that you ARE their advocate. I had to deal with such and similar things when my kids were growing up and I think it helped them to learn that when something is wrong, you don't just sit around and say nothing or do nothing. But also, you have to act strategically. I wrote letters with cc to bunches of people, had my atty send letters, had meetings with the principals, teachers, school board, etc. when necessary. My kids knew that I wasn't going to sit around and do nothing if they were suffering.

Well I tried the let's ignore it approach and see if they move on to someone else. That hasn't worked, so it is clear to me that I have to do something, and I will start by seeing the school. Thank you all for your input, it is hard to think clearly when under such duress. What has stopped me from doing anything before was that I worried about him being teased about his mother fighting his battles, and them setting about getting even in some other way.

Aiming said:
I'm sorry to hear your son has to go through this, Arwenn. It's horrific how ponerized this system has become that psychopathic behaviour even among kids has become the new norm.

I think it's really good advice to start becoming proactive about this and take a stand for your son, albeit not in a way to teach him that others come to his rescue, but in teaching him by living example that these situations require action and how they can be solved, and above all, your action will show him that he's not alone in this, that you care about his well-being and protection. In this way, he'll feel emotionally supported, and learn how to deal with it himself when similar situations come up for him in life. As we've learned here, one of the big lessons on this BBM is to learn about the existence of pathological people and their enablers, their tactics, and how to protect yourself and others. So I second the suggestion to give your son material to read and then discuss it with him.

Seppo Ilmarinen said:
Usually bullies don't understand reasonable talk but some kind of setback that'll make bullying more difficult, e.g confrontation by the parent/teachers/any authority, teachers giving detention/extra work, their own parents getting angry, a threat of getting bullied back, or not recognizing anymore the vulnerabilities in bullied person.

Yes, they can only operate in the dark, as long as others keep shoving it under the rug and make excuses, looking the other way so as not having to deal with something 'uncomfortable'. So it's important to not let them get away with it; after all, there will also be other kids these bullies are going to target, so it's best for all involved if the principal and teachers get alerted to what's going on, even if eventually it might turn out that changing schools is the best option for your son.

Thanks Aiming, I agree that bullies are usually cowards who do fear confrontation, especially with authority figures. School goes back in 2 weeks, I will report back after I have had a meeting with them.
 
Arwenn said:
Thanks Aiming, I agree that bullies are usually cowards who do fear confrontation, especially with authority figures. School goes back in 2 weeks, I will report back after I have had a meeting with them.

I would like to remind everyone that this is just one of the options - the other is what George Simon describes in his book Character Disturbance:

Have you ever noticed the consistency in these traditional notions about a very different kind of reality lying underneath the facade? They always involve an outward appearance that's not very appealing, and a more pitiable reality underneath. In other words, traditional notions about personality tend to view egomaniacs as really having low self-esteem underneath, bullies being scared little kids underneath, and abusers being traumatized victims underneath it all, etc. But you've probably never heard a devotee of classical perspectives claim that a shy person is really a ravenous animal underneath it all, wanting to jump the bones of everyone they meet. Or that a particularly sensitive person is really a vicious monster with a heart of stone underneath. I think we're too quick to align with psychology metaphors that have outlived their usefulness for this reason: Most of us still don't like to face the unpleasant things in life, and want to explain them away with a perspective that makes the unnerving more palatable.

So, yes, there are bullies that operate from a perspective of some underlying fear - but there is also a significant subset of these people with character disturbances, which require a completely different approach, as outlined by G. Simon.

Arwenn, I don't have much to add at the moment, we discussed this on the Australian meetup where I voiced my opinions - which I am not sure are very pertinent to your situation. But then again - networking works!
 
Arwenn said:
I keep asking myself - what would Putin do? :rolleyes:

Well, Putin would give them a bloody nose, even if it meant that he would get beaten in return. There are several examples from his biography when as a small and skinny kid he had to defend himself from bullies, and he did. Not saying that your child should do the same (after all, there are also differences in mentality and what is considered to be an acceptable response where you live), but learning martial arts is an excellent idea.

Laura said:
Kids are more and more psychopathic and you just can't brush it off as "just being kids" anymore.

nicklebleu said:
So, yes, there are bullies that operate from a perspective of some underlying fear - but there is also a significant subset of these people with character disturbances, which require a completely different approach, as outlined by G. Simon.

Exactly. And as Laura said, be proactive and try to utilize all the available legal and administrative options to your disposal. Don't try to confront the parents directly (at least not at the beginning), but do try to present the situation to the school in an unambiguous way. Let your lawyer to write an official letter, and show them that you are not going to let go until this issue is going to be given a proper attention.

Just to share with you an extreme example. Recently in the Russian news there has been a story about 4 boys that for over half a year have been raping and extorting a 10 years old kid. They intimidated the child and told him that they will do the same with his siblings, if he will tell anyone about the abuse. The story became public after he shared it with his 14 years old friend, and he went and beat the crap out of all of them, and after parents of the rapists complained about it to the police(!).

Anyways, now all 4 boys are studying at home (they couldn't be prosecuted since they were less than 14 years old) and official investigation was initiated that is going to check how is it possible that no one at school didn't see anything and didn't do anything to prevent the abuse. Parents of the rapists and their responsibility is going to be checked as well.

Sure, this is an extreme case, and luckily in your case the abuse is only verbal. But then, verbal abuse is devastating just the same. So I think that you shouldn't hesitate and show your kid that abuse of any kind shouldn't be tolerated. Let the school officials sweat a bit. fwiw.
 
I feel so sorry for your kid and you,dear Arween.I also suggest you ask for legal help and talk with the teachers and with the parents.They need to be aware of this problem otherwise is going to be worst and worst.At the same time support the self esteem of your son,probably martial arts is a good option.

Marie-France Hirigoyen is a french specialist in mobbing.She got very interesting bibliography where you wll find useful information.One of her books are Mobbing,but i have it in Spanish as El Acoso Moral,in French is Le harcèlement Moral.I hope it can help.

Here a share with you how Putin deal with the problems.Enjoy it :P

https://youtu.be/co8s0egftsc

https://youtu.be/cUqaGjgA8BU
 
Found an interesting article:

What to do if your child is being bullied

No parent likes to think about their child being bullied or, even worse, being a bully but the fact is, more than half of all children are involved – either as a perpetrator, victim or witness. So, there’s a good chance you’ll have to deal with it at some point. If your child is being bullied there are things you can do to help them.

Tips to help your child


"Listen without getting angry or upset," says Sandra Hiller, Family Lives. "Put your own feelings aside, sit down and actually listen to what your child is telling you – then show you have done so by ‘playing back’ to them what you hear. Ask your child: "How do you want me to take this forward?" rather than just taking over so they don’t feel excluded from deciding what to do or end up even more stressed/worried than they were already.


Reassure your child it’s not their fault.
There’s still a stigma attached to bullying and some children feel they’ve brought it upon themselves. Remind them that many celebrities have been bullied too. Being bullied isn't about being weak and being a bully isn't about being strong. "Encourage your child to try to appear confident - even if they don’t feel it," says Sue Atkins, former deputy head and parenting coach. Body language and tone of voice speak volumes.

Sometimes people say nasty things because they want a certain reaction or to cause upset, so if your child gives them the impression they’re not bothered, the bullies are more likely to stop. Role-play bullying scenarios and practice your child’s responses. Talk about how our voices, bodies and faces send messages just the same way our words do.
Don’t let the bullying dominate their life. Help your child develop new skills in a new area, says Rob Parsons, international speaker on family life and author of Teenagers! What Every Parent Has to Know (Hodder & Stoughton, £7.99). This might mean encouraging them to join a club or activity like drama or self-defence. This builds confidence, helps keep the problem in perspective and offers a chance to make new friends. Ease up on pressure in other less-important areas like nagging about an untidy bedroom.

Things to avoid

Don’t charge off demanding to see the head teacher, the bully or the bully’s parents. This is usually the very reaction children dread and, according to ChildLine’s counsellors, can cause bullying to get worse."Never tell your child to hit or shout names back," says Sandra Hiller. "It simply doesn’t solve the problem and, if your child is under-confident (and most bullied children are) then it just adds to their stress and anxiety."

Never dismiss their experience: If your child has plucked up the courage to tell you about bullying, it’s crushing to be told to "sort it out yourself" or "it’s all part of growing up." Don’t tell them to ignore it, warns Lyndall Horton-James, Bullying Prevention Education Consultant and author of 'Raising Bullywise Kids'. This only teaches them that bullying has to be tolerated, rather than stopped – and sets them up for further bullying in the future.


Dealing with your feelings


"You may feel anger, hurt, guilt, helplessness or fear," explains Sue Atkins. "Your own memories of being a child may help you empathise and find solutions but they can also get in the way. Think about how you feel before reacting – or you may not be able to help as much as you want."

Be honest, advises Lyndall Horton-James, "Be prepared to admit that you don’t know something and offer to help find an answer by searching the internet, calling a helpline, asking their school or by visiting the library together.

"Doing everyday tasks together provides ideal opportunities to chat casually about bullying," says Lyndall. "But don’t expect a once-only message to stick: Research shows that around 40% of children, whose parents had talked to them about bullying, couldn’t recall what their parents had said."

Don’t be upset if your child wants to talk to other adults and friends about the problem. You, also, may find it helpful to discuss the matter confidentially with your friends – though preferably not with those whose children go to the same school.
Getting support from the school

All schools are legally required to have an anti-bullying policy. Many also offer different forms of peer support where certain children are trained in active listening or mediation skills to help bullied children. In secondary schools they may be called peer mentors, supporters, counsellors, listeners or mediators while in primary schools, they might be called friendship or playground buddies, playtime pals or peacemakers. Lyndall Horton-James, Bullying Prevention and Education Consultant offers the following tips:

Before you approach the school, list all the facts: what happened, who was involved, when it occurred, who witnessed it, anything your child did that may have provoked the incident, whether it was a one-off or series of events.

Don’t arrive at the school unexpectedly: Make an appointment with the class teacher or head of year.

Aim to work together with the school and make it clear that you are seeking the school's help in finding a solution.

Avoid accusing the school: Remember that teachers are usually the last to find out that bullying is happening at school. The sequence is "friends first, then parents, lastly schools".

Be patient: Allow the school time to deal with the problem but stay in touch with them and arrange a follow up meeting to see how the situation is being resolved.

What to do if things don't improve

Keep a bullying diary. Write down every incident as soon as possible after it happens. Include the date, what happend, who did it and who saw it. Include the effect on your child, whether your child told anyone and what they said or did and any later effects.

Tell the school each time. Write down what they say or do and any effect their actions have.

If your child is hurt, take photographs and see your doctor (and the police if the assault is serious).
Schools have a variety of options for dealing with bullying. These range from a warning, seeing the bully’s parents and detention to internal exclusion within the school, fixed term exclusion and permanent exclusion.

If you’re not satisfied with the school’s response, don’t give up or be made to feel like a timewaster or a troublemaker. The Advisory Centre for Education (ACE) offers step-by-step advice on how to deal with the school, from how to write a letter to your options if you need to take things further. Their advice line is 0300 0115 142. You can also use our template letters to write to the Head, Governors, Education Dept and Ofsted. Remember, unless you are home teaching, you face prosecution if you take your child out of school. If your child is too frightened or stressed to go, contact the LEA education welfare officer/social worker and ask them to intervene with the school.

Source: _http://www.bullying.co.uk/advice-for-parents/what-to-do-if-your-child-is-being-bullied/

FWIW
 
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