defaulting on credit card debt

[Mr. Premise]

Gonzo, you seem fenced in by morality. The morality of paying that which cannot be paid, especially in regard to contractual relationship with corporations or government, is the dark magician's fence around the sheep. The relationship between human beings is based on conscience, not morality. Morality pretends to be conscience to deceive the flock.

Banking corporations, which issue credit cards, have been granted the legal rights of person-hood in the USA. Clearly a corporation or government is an entity without conscience. Therefore, these soulless artificial life forms operate in the world at extreme advantage to normal human beings. Default on debt or bankruptcy is a practical and legitimate way to rid one's self of a contract with these virtual psychopaths protected by legal monopoly on coercion and the deception of morality and propaganda.

Edit: That being said; we must remember to feed the crocodile, lest it devour us, as Mouravieff so clearly says in Gnosis.

I would have to agree with this, and add that my thought would be, Perhaps the only thing owed karmically, would be to pay what back what you initially received. Not neccessarily what they say you owe. I hope that makes sense.

The one thing i have been worried about, is a student loan i took out for 20 grand. I know that i will never be able to pay it off, let alone before things get bad, and they "own" me in this respect. Am i being paranoid about this?
Once again, i hope i worded this right, if not i will clarify when i am thinking a little more clearly.

I hear you! I wouldn't say that you being worried about this is paranoia, Davey72. However, there are ways to default and protect yourself. That may be worth looking into on the internet. Maybe others can add what they know about it.

One way I know about is to form an LLC and make yourself an independent contractor with a company name (any name that you like!) Then the student loan psycho debt collectors will not see your name associated with the account at your bank. The IRS supposedly will only see the company name or tax ID# as well. This you could do in association with a job if you can have the checks made out to the LLC name (and deposit your paychecks in this LLC account.) In addition, keep your personal bank account balance very low.

I am not sure this will work for you, as I don't know your situation. But as long as you have money to put into the business account, you can form an LLC as a creative project if you like. It costs $50. to do this online.

Or just make minimum payments as long as you are able, if this is already what you do, and it doesn't bother you to do this-- but I agree with you, they own you 'forever' in their book, even after the euro and/or dollar crashes and a new currency is introduced (or already has been.) Who knows, but it could be a worse debt when this happens.
Maybe this blog will help your frame of mind a bit. (And, there's plenty more to say about this issue on the internet, just by googling 'the student loan debt industry' for starters!

http://studentloansblog.nextstudent.com/2011/10/25/student-loan-debt-is-a-1-trillion-dollar-opportunity-for-debt-collectors/

SolarMother, a couple of things here. First, Davey72 does not live in the United States, so the laws are very much different in different countries. And, for anyone trying to use an LLC to avoid student loan collectors taking money out of their account after they default, I would strongly advise getting good legal advice first. Also, student loans are generally spread over many years, U.S. federally sponsored student loans can be paid off over 30 years (ones from private banks are worse, of course). They even had some in the 1990s (don't know if they're still around, the Republicans hated them) where you only had to pay a certain manageable percentage of your income, and if your income wasn't high, and it wasn't paid off after 30 years, the rest is forgiven. So, if you have a job, a $20,000 student loan is not that burdensome. It might only be $200 a month. If you don't have a job, you can usually ask for a forbearance until you get one.

But again, please contact a lawyer about this instead of embarking on risky actions based on what someone said in a forum.

Finally, in the state I live in starting an LLC costs $500 to start and you have to pay $500 each year it is active. Probably to prevent scams like this. It varies state by state.

 

[Foxx]

Hi everyone!

Wow, more responses with more variation than I was expecting! Thanks for all the responses and thought into the matter!

As I think about it more, it seems like, for me, it ultimately comes down to efficacy--as in, would this action either by myself or in a larger group effectively create change. I originally thought that it could be effective, at least with the right circumstances, but considering it further, the action taken en masse would be spun (since the delay would be long enough and the action lives in the ephemeral monetary system where accounting and printing can create delays for nearly as long as desired) as a movement of people who were too lazy to work defaulting on their credit cards, likely resulting in further debt clamp downs and possibly debtors prisons, as the masses would grow angry at the perceived group causing the further devaluation of one of their energy stores (money) and the system would find ways to disable the action. The answer, then, to my original question of 'would this bring about change' seems to likely be no, which I likely could have seen if I had taken a less wishful-thinking approach to the potential action originally (around a year ago, now), which would make it an STS action.

Much of the result of the action, though, did go into and remain as silver, following Max Keiser's suggestion that holding silver could tank JP Morgan-->not entirely "tramp" behavior in this instance, I think, as I was holding it as a method of activism that seemed potentially effective (versus many that were clearly ineffective), the only benefit to me being that it'll be a little easier to pay off my debt than may otherwise have been. I'm particularly interested if people think that my understanding of a tramp in this case is inaccurate.

Certainly though, from other cases I've read about, it does seem like those individuals who are getting fleeced by the credit card companies in the various ways that credit card companies are operating that way, that defaulting or taking the company to court (and likely winning in those cases) would be an action that was more STO oriented. The fraudclosure as a parallel occurrence would certainly have different answers, I think, especially considering the full disclosure aspect of a contract.

- you enter into a contract, an obligation, when you make purchases with your credit card. You therefore have a responsibility to live up to that obligation.

The contract element has aspects that are worth noting separately, I believe. From what I've been reading lately, it seems that contract law has three elements (law and legal code seem to be rife with threes): consent, full disclosure, and valuable consideration (payment). Certainly there was consent and payment, though full disclosure in the case of credit cards is questionable and perhaps not always in existence (which, if proven in court, would theoretically render the contract void, and rightly so). I think I had full disclosure in my case, so I put it here as a potentially useful reference for others. I have heard some accounts that credit card companies are able to redeem ones contractual agreement with them for money from a bank in some way, but have yet to confirm this for myself and understand it, so it doesn't seem to apply in this instance.

And as a comical aside,

However, I'm not so sure it would make sense to worry about such obligations of comets start falling or the banking system fails.

this was very much a part of my thinking at the time, though my timing was certainly off (eventually crossed cliff high off the 'potentially good information' list and relocated to the 'probably active disinfo/at best has bad information' list--lesson learned).

Your idea that it is giving energy to the STS position is an interesting one, but things are changing so fast in the legal sphere, you need to know whether or not they can harm you and your loved ones if you take a stand against them.
...
Well, another interesting idea; but, as you say, one that would have to be undertaken by many people at once and there aren't enough awake people to do that so the few who do wouldn't make that big a difference.

And again, things are changing in ways that make it impossible to survive without some connection to the banking system.

In the end, it comes down to "render unto Caesar..."

All very poignant points, thanks Laura.

Anyone see any flaws in my thinking?

Thanks for all the help!