Depression, isolation, life

Muxel

Muxel

Dagobah Resident
Hello everyone,

I am reluctant to say this, but I have been at the end of my rope for a long time, and dealing with depression and feeling very hopeless about my life. I hold down a day job and count myself lucky to have a means to survive when all around me there are people who live in economic deprivation and desperation. Nevertheless I often think that I have nothing to live for really, in fact I have been rather gloomy about the trajectory of my life which has been about as exciting and rewarding as a potato. I truly do not blame anyone for the state of my existence but it does get me down, and weary too, and it is hard to keep a positive face.

I am on board with things like Nature and beauty and the endurance of truth, but I feel that all of that is happening, or will happen in its own time, and in any case it is difficult to conceive myself having a hand in any of it. I don't consider myself an impulsive or irrational person but I completely understand how many people have done such things to deal with painful circumstances. I honestly wish for anything that can help and I suppose that is mainly why I write this.

Best wishes.
 
Hello Muxel, well, i would need to ask about the of help you are looking for, not before saying that bringing this up which seems difficult to you at this moment was a courageous and brave act.

I don't know how far i can assume from what you shared, but you are bothered at how others suffer in front of your eyes? And this being a form of frustration, and repeats in loop.
you seeing this situation becomes frustrating.

It sounds as though being at the end of the rope, can also be said called to expossed to a toxic emotion for too long that is just beating you and leaving you out of breath. Is this correct??

Best regards
 
Hi Muxel,

You're not alone. You may find this thread helpful: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,43244.0.html

Ennio said:
In our tougher moments, whether they be from pressures and stresses inside of us, or from outside of us (and we can expect a lot of those in the future), many of us are likely to feel a little hopeless, helpless, and useless at times. You name it. The worst of it would seem to come at times when several things seem to ’go wrong’ at once, or worse, we feel stuck in the thoughts and feelings that remind us of our failings – or even the failings of a world that seems to be so awful. Any number of things can leave us feeling discouraged. At the same time, amidst this state, there may arise some understanding we hold deep inside; some memory we have, or some new realization we glean about why we’ve chosen to do this work that may lead to a renewed impetus to be ‘here’ to the best of our ability. And in remembering this memory, realizing this insight, or having that bit of inspiration - we find a way forward.

I’ve certainly been to those tough places and re-visit them from time to time. It just seems to be how life is.

We seem to meet the feelings of discouragement in different ways depending on their source, degree, the set of circumstances that surrounds them, etc. But whatever the case, there are those times when we’ve gotten ourselves through it and, more than that, feeling and acting constructively. Perhaps even thriving (as much as possible anyway) as a result. Amen! Thank DCM!

The point here, and I’m really asking a question - is how did those turn-arounds look for people here? Were there any particular understandings or insights that made all the difference for you? Did you remember a Eureka! moment you once had when you discovered this place, or after you discovered this place? Or did it look completely different? What’s your thought-anchor to this work (if you have one)? It might even be the thought of “what the heck else is there?,” or, “I’m just a stubborn SOB and I’m not giving up!”. What kept you and keeps you working on connecting to what’s being done here when the feelings of being overwhelmed, discouraged, depressed, etc. come, and you find yourself pulling away or having the feelings of giving up? It could be anything - anything at all that has made all the difference to you and helped you decide to make the next step forward. And the next one, and the next one…
Click to expand...

Did something happen recently that prompted you to make this post today?
 
Hello Felipe,
Sorry if my post caused any misunderstanding - it is not the general suffering of mankind that is the chief cause for my own depression, but rather my own, directly experienced. But thank you for your words.

Hello Seamas,
Nothing in particular, this being somewhat a longstanding state of affairs in my life... However, not too recently I have begun doing some introspection and facing some hard truths about myself.
 
Muxel said:
I am on board with things like Nature and beauty and the endurance of truth, but I feel that all of that is happening, or will happen in its own time, and in any case it is difficult to conceive myself having a hand in any of it. I don't consider myself an impulsive or irrational person but I completely understand how many people have done such things to deal with painful circumstances. I honestly wish for anything that can help and I suppose that is mainly why I write this.
Click to expand...

Muxel - regardless of whether you conceive/perceive being a part of Nature/beauty, you are. I'm not sure what you mean by "endurance of truth". Truth, to me, exists or is - and we have the choice to align with it or not.

I was just listening (in the background) to a CSPAN airing of an author explaining her book about the depression/ailments of "famous" people who made significant contributions in their lives - Agatha Christie/dissociative identity crisis, Lincoln/lifelong bouts of depression, and many others suffering periods of depression. Lincoln, when asked about depression (by a sufferer), recommended immersion in activity/work - what apparently worked for him. What this implies is that depression can be a doorway to creativity (not to mention growth).

My own feeling is that aligning with Truth and doing the Work is also a guarantee for periods of depression as programmed beliefs are stripped away, and temporary voids are left in their place (perceived or not). Lack of motivation (and an inward focus) can result - thus Lincoln's recommendation. As discussed in the forum, Aim and Doing help fill the voids even if the Aim is as simple as aligning with the Truth in all senses and levels.

In my own experience with bouts of depression, it has helped tremendously to invert the inward focus and put the attention on my environment, and particularly the people in my environment - and listen carefully to their own ailments.
 
Muxel said:
Hello everyone,

I am reluctant to say this, but I have been at the end of my rope for a long time, and dealing with depression and feeling very hopeless about my life. I hold down a day job and count myself lucky to have a means to survive when all around me there are people who live in economic deprivation and desperation. Nevertheless I often think that I have nothing to live for really, in fact I have been rather gloomy about the trajectory of my life which has been about as exciting and rewarding as a potato. I truly do not blame anyone for the state of my existence but it does get me down, and weary too, and it is hard to keep a positive face.

I am on board with things like Nature and beauty and the endurance of truth, but I feel that all of that is happening, or will happen in its own time, and in any case it is difficult to conceive myself having a hand in any of it. I don't consider myself an impulsive or irrational person but I completely understand how many people have done such things to deal with painful circumstances. I honestly wish for anything that can help and I suppose that is mainly why I write this.

Best wishes.
Click to expand...

Hi Muxel, I am sorry to hear that you are passing for this hard time. But I read many times your post and I have many doubts about your depression state. First I see in your profile that you are a young man (just over 20 years old) and I wonder why you say that "you have been at the end of your rope for a long time". How much is a "long time" for you? Do you feel in that way from your adolescence, or before yet? ... or you are just talking about of a couple of years ago? I ask it because when I read your post I thought that you were a middle aged man.

A couple of lines below you talked about "the trajectory of your life" and this is intriguing for me. Yes, a young man really could has lived too many things in a short life, but it is not always the case. I think that a man in his 20's usually have many things to live and experience, a lot of time ahead. So I am wondering if you could maybe tell us a little more about what you feel and what you think that triggered this state on you. I really feel that it is very difficult be helpful for you if you do not give us a little more information about you.

Like LQB I also have problem to understand what is for you the meaning of "endurance of truth". Do you feel that "the truth" is too hard to digest? Are you talking about personal truths, global truths, or universal truths? I think that the Truth should not be "endured", it is like if you are fighting with it. IMO there is a simple and unique thing that one can do in front of the Truth: just accept it.

Well, I really would like be helpful for you in some way, but I consider that this can be easier if you give us more and better information about you and your issues, after all a good way to ask for help honestly and sincerely is doing a good effort to give all information needed to be helped.
 
Muxel said:
Hello everyone,

I am reluctant to say this, but I have been at the end of my rope for a long time, and dealing with depression and feeling very hopeless about my life. I hold down a day job and count myself lucky to have a means to survive when all around me there are people who live in economic deprivation and desperation. Nevertheless I often think that I have nothing to live for really, in fact I have been rather gloomy about the trajectory of my life which has been about as exciting and rewarding as a potato. I truly do not blame anyone for the state of my existence but it does get me down, and weary too, and it is hard to keep a positive face.

I am on board with things like Nature and beauty and the endurance of truth, but I feel that all of that is happening, or will happen in its own time, and in any case it is difficult to conceive myself having a hand in any of it. I don't consider myself an impulsive or irrational person but I completely understand how many people have done such things to deal with painful circumstances. I honestly wish for anything that can help and I suppose that is mainly why I write this.

Best wishes.
Click to expand...

Hi Muxel. You could have been describing my own situation in your first paragraph - pretty much word for word.

Do you pray? You said you wish for anything that can help, so how about prayer? religion? Trying to establish or reestablish a connection to the divine cosmic mind; to feel that connection permanently; to know that the DCM is always with you and that every single thing you experience is an interaction with it; that each interaction is the DCM giving you exactly what you need; to feel its hand, guiding you and guiding your life; understanding that everything we choose to do is asking the DCM for something, and that what we experience is what we are asking for.

I think a large part of my own depression is a kind of lack of satisfaction. It's an emptiness inside that craves... something. Some might say that it's love, and more importantly, self-love. But I've found that getting myself into a state of gratitude towards the universe is satiating. When you truly feel and know that you have absolutely everything you need and that you always have, because the universe has always given you everything you need, that kind of feeling is very satisfying and fills up a hole inside. That dissatisfaction is actually a kind of greed; a need for something all the time and a need for more of whatever it is.

When I can reach that feeling of satisfaction that comes from a place of real gratitude, it's like reality shifts and I see everything in a completely different way. Apparently, the part of our brain that is responsible for motivating us to satisfy our drives is the hypothalamus. It takes care of things like hunger and thirst, temperature regulation, sex drive, etc. But interestingly enough, fully 50% of its function is dedicated to exploration.

And I think it's the case that we can't get into exploratory/inquisitive mode, which for me is that feeling of life being like a dance with the universe, unless our drives are satisfied first. So, I think that's the reason that coming to this understanding and feeling of gratitude changes my state to one where I'm motivated and Working for the fun of it, and enjoying it. I can focus, I can study, I can think.

I truly believe there's something in this idea of depression being caused by need, greed, hunger, that we can never get enough, we are empty of hope and meaning because we aren't "full filled".

Well, just some personal thoughts. I don't know if they apply to you, but thank you for sharing how you're feeling. I too think it's an act of courage and it's inspirational to me.
 
Thanks for clarifying,

I do agree, if there's anything you want to share with us.

People often suffer in silence, things that are not expressed start piling up. But you don't have to suffer alone, you being part of the universe have the right to BE

One of my problems at one time, was that the reality i was seeing was killing me, but became intriged by the idea the we build reality in our perception, at some level through my issues i was creating this reality only in my life. It helped me cope for a while, later on i understood how this is in fact was an important piece of thre puzzel why everyone perceive life differently and not the true world, and how this prevented me from seeing others and through a dark lense

Have you tried just breathing meditation

I feel as though there is more you have not said, sorry if i missuderstand.
 
Thanks for sharing your struggle, Muxel. It definitely resonated with me, as I've been in a similar position before, especially while I was busting my butt waiting tables for over a year after college - that was my lowest point, I think. I felt drained and lost. What helped me through that period, though, was having creative projects to work on through it all. I was doing research and writing, composing poems and even self-published a collection of them, and playing music with a few different bands. Each of these tasks gave me something to strive toward, a challenge to take on and to overcome, and the overcoming of each challenge and the completion of a project gave me more confidence in myself to continue through the hard times - it gave meaning to my suffering. It also felt like a way to give back to others, to share my lessons with people who may be going through similar tough times, and I think it's that very giving back that really brings meaning to our lives.

A couple weeks ago this article was posted this article on SOTT about Viktor Frankl that is worth reading, which is about that very subject: what brings meaning to our lives, and the difference between living a 'happy' life as opposed to a meaningful one.

I've been recommending Frankl's book, Man's Search for Meaning, every chance I get because I think it's one of the most insightful and important books I've ever read. It's been brought up on the forum a few times already - if you haven't read it yet then I highly recommend it. It's about a psychiatrist who survives the Holocaust and describes how he did it and what he learned in the process (summed up nicely in the article linked above).

Joe read it recently and shared this excerpt on this thread which I think would be helpful for you:

As we said before, any attempt to restore a person's inner strength in the camp had first to succeed in showing them some future goal. Nietzsche's words, "He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how", could be the guiding motto for all psychotherapeutic and pyschohygenic efforts regarding prisoners. Whenever there was an opportunity for it, one had to give them a why - an aim - for their lives, in order to strengthen them to bear the terrible how of their existence. Woe to him who saw no more sense in his life, no aim, no purpose, and therefore no point in carrying on. He was soon lost. The typical reply with which such a person rejected all encouraging arguments was, "I have nothing to expect from life any more." What sort of answer can one give to that?

What was really needed was a fundamental change in our attitude toward life. We had to learn ourselves and, furthermore, we had to teach the despairing person, that it did not really matter what we expected from life, but rather what life expected from us. We needed to stop asking about the meaning of life, and instead to think of ourselves as those who were being questioned by life - daily and hourly. Our answer must consist, not in talk and meditation, but in right action and in right conduct. Life ultimately means taking the responsibility to find the right answer to its problems and to fulfill the tasks which it constantly sets for each individual.

These tasks, and therefore the meaning of life, differ from person to person, and from moment to moment. Thus it is impossible to define the meaning of life in a general way. Questions about the meaning of life can never be answered by sweeping statements. "Life" does not mean something vague, but something very real and concrete. They form a person's destiny, which is different and unique for each individual. No person and no destiny can be compared with any other person or any other destiny. No situation repeats itself, and each situation calls for a different response. Sometimes the situation in which a person finds themselves may require them to shape their own fate by action. At other times it is more advantageous for a person to make use of an opportunity for contemplation and to realize assets in this way.

When a person finds that it is their destiny to suffer, they will have to accept their suffering as their task; their single and unique task. They will have to acknowledge the fact that even in suffering they are unique and alone in the universe. No one can relieve them of their suffering or suffer in their place. Their unique opportunity lies in the way in which they bear their suffering.
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Just something to think about. Anyway, I hope this helped. Stay strong, brother! :)
 
Muxel said:
Hello Seamas,
Nothing in particular, this being somewhat a longstanding state of affairs in my life... However, not too recently I have begun doing some introspection and facing some hard truths about myself.
Click to expand...

Introspection can be a difficult and painful process, that's for sure! Would you mind telling us about the hard truths you are facing?
 
Muxel said:
Hello everyone,

I am reluctant to say this, but I have been at the end of my rope for a long time, and dealing with depression and feeling very hopeless about my life. I hold down a day job and count myself lucky to have a means to survive when all around me there are people who live in economic deprivation and desperation. Nevertheless I often think that I have nothing to live for really, in fact I have been rather gloomy about the trajectory of my life which has been about as exciting and rewarding as a potato. I truly do not blame anyone for the state of my existence but it does get me down, and weary too, and it is hard to keep a positive face.

I am on board with things like Nature and beauty and the endurance of truth, but I feel that all of that is happening, or will happen in its own time, and in any case it is difficult to conceive myself having a hand in any of it. I don't consider myself an impulsive or irrational person but I completely understand how many people have done such things to deal with painful circumstances. I honestly wish for anything that can help and I suppose that is mainly why I write this.

Best wishes.
Click to expand...

Hey Muxel. I really feel ya. I feel the bolded portion may be relevant to your feelings of depression. My own experience of depression has been primarily to experience it as a loss of meaningfulness in my day-to-day life. I don't want to put words in your mouth, but by the bolded portions it seems like you measure your self-worth by your contribution to the Grand Scheme of Nature, truth, beauty, etc. But it's virtually impossible to change or influence things like that on your own (unless you have a network or are Julius Caesar).

In spite of that, there are plenty of other ways to make a difference in other people's lives. I second PtE's recommendation of Man's Search for Meaning in that regard. Being a good son, a good worker, a good friend and citizen is one way to give back. Volunteering is another. Spending time with people who share your interests, so you learn from others and vice versa. Even cleaning your house and keeping a good diet and hygiene is all important for self-image, and self-discipline.

I'd say it's also important to have a group of friends you can share your feelings and thoughts with, and experience understanding and encouragement instead of judgement in response. We're social animals. Gurdjieff said that we cannot do on our own, and, to appropriate that, I would also say we cannot create meaning in our life on our own either. Find something to love and appreciate about other people in your life. This is part of gratitude, which I think is an important emotion because it can help teach you how to FIND meaning in things. With practice it can be easier to see the relationship between things, and also possibly how all you experience in life DOES contribute ultimately to the big picture, OSIT.
 
Muxel said:
Hello everyone,

I am reluctant to say this, but I have been at the end of my rope for a long time, and dealing with depression and feeling very hopeless about my life. I hold down a day job and count myself lucky to have a means to survive when all around me there are people who live in economic deprivation and desperation. Nevertheless I often think that I have nothing to live for really, in fact I have been rather gloomy about the trajectory of my life which has been about as exciting and rewarding as a potato. I truly do not blame anyone for the state of my existence but it does get me down, and weary too, and it is hard to keep a positive face.

I am on board with things like Nature and beauty and the endurance of truth, but I feel that all of that is happening, or will happen in its own time, and in any case it is difficult to conceive myself having a hand in any of it. I don't consider myself an impulsive or irrational person but I completely understand how many people have done such things to deal with painful circumstances. I honestly wish for anything that can help and I suppose that is mainly why I write this.

Best wishes.
Click to expand...

Good you are sharing here, Muxel, and I can reason your reluctance to share, and hopefully you may feel you can expand on a few things that others may than be able to better understand and help with in whatever way that is. As others have said, they can see in your words similar things that they relate to - I feel the same in some respects. What is going on around us is no easy thing - this day in and day out without improvements that are evident on the horizon. Remember though what the C's offered, it is not where you are, it is who you are and what you see that is important. The who you are and what your see part has been afforded great opportunity by just being here, having the ability to share as you have just done so. Your own ability to help might seem insignificant, like a potato as you say, and yet the smallest thing you might do or have done might help another - you may in fact not even realize it.

I know these are just words and yet your life has meaning and capabilities that can affect another life - that old butterfly wing beating the air around itself can have far reaching influence.

Best wishes to you also!
 
Hi Muxel,

Further to all the helpful, wise words from your network-friends, i would like to add that by sharing your load, admitting to self and others that you feel this way and experience life this way at this moment, is a sign of strength and empowerment. Like you have reached the bottom, enough now, time to climb out. From all the books we have read and the stories we have heard as well as our own life experiences we can deduce that we can choose to grow from periods of suffering, they appeal to our creativity in finding ways out of the misery. In Political Ponerology, ch 6, loc 4206 on Kindle, Andrew Lobaczewski writes:

'Thus, during brutal times of confrontation with evil, human capabilities of discriminating phenomena become subtler; apperceptive moral sensibility develops'.

I think that is the higher function of problems. From the fires I've fought in my life so far, I learned that, for me, to wallow around in suffering might feel good at some level (and you know, as the C's have said, it makes you food), but in the end it is a choice which ultimately may lead to weakness and co-dependency and physical problems. I also went through a period of blaming, shaming, guilting and doubting myself. From such a contracted field of energy, one cannot see that all is indeed interconnected, and that when someone else is doing well, we are all doing well, it is good for the whole. By shifting away from an external validation system the dependency on the ego is relaxed and that cultivates an internal trust, which can be scary at the initial stages, and your environment may not understand, but I found it to be the way out of the dark for me. The self examination process is a huge part of identifying running programs and patterns you might wish to cut loose on your way to living a fulfilled and content life. Choosing to make gratitude the pivotal energy around all your interactions, including with yourself, can help you to release judgment of yourself and others, which frees up space in your mind to fill with healthy and life enhancing information and emotions.

Best wishes Muxel
 
Hi Muxel, you might find the thread 'Stages in the Work, limited time for progress, and karmic debt along the path' here within 'The Work' highly useful to read. The discussion focuses objectively as well as personally on periods in our lives and yours fits right in. If you allow yourself to take a step back from your situation and your small I, you might see that how you choose to handle your predicament might mean one step higher on the stairway. Take care, Muxel
 
Rudy said:
Hi Muxel, you might find the thread 'Stages in the Work, limited time for progress, and karmic debt along the path' here within 'The Work' highly useful to read. The discussion focuses objectively as well as personally on periods in our lives and yours fits right in. If you allow yourself to take a step back from your situation and your small I, you might see that how you choose to handle your predicament might mean one step higher on the stairway. Take care, Muxel
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Here is the thread Rudy is talking about. It's worth checking out. I actually just finished reading Gnosis, Book One on Monday and found it to be a succinct breakdown of the Work. It's written more like a manual than In Search of the Miraculous, although some parts are just as dense and a little difficult to grasp, particularly the sections on the "Law of Three", the "Law of Seven" and the "Ray of Creation". Can get a little confusing, but worth the effort.
 
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