Descriptions of the "afterlife"

Jones

Jedi Council Member
After finishing this book I listened to his another audiobook The Afterlife Unveiled: What the Dead are Telling Us About Their World and actually found it richer in detail.
I've just finished reading this on kindle. I agree that it's richer in detail - but it also clearer with idea's for progress.

Strange to say, many are the spirits who, after a lifetime of evildoing, feel more at home inside the gate, inside their self made hell, as far away from the light as they can get. Frances tells us there are three conditions to be met before there can be progress: facing one's defects, yearning to be free of those defects, and service to fellow spirits. Some want to change, some don't. Just on earth.


All is not lost for these spirits though because some of the more advanced spirits choose to continue to work with them, always only offering, but never forcing. It's considered a type of missionary work.

But let's remember that advanced spirits are constantly working to free these spirits, soul by soul, from their imprisonment in vice, and that the will is always free. Often good triumphs: By their efforts many spirits rise, and when rescued from degradation, work out long and laborious purification in the probation spheres, where they are removed from influences for evil, and entrusted to the care of the pure and good.

[.....]

But are there hopeless cases? Imperator admits there are. And their destiny is tragic: They that will not seek for anything that is good, that wallow in impurity and vice, sink lower and lower, until they lose conscious identity and become practically extinct, so far as personal existence is concerned; so at least we believe. Imperator calls this determined refusal to pick themselves up, this deliberate rejection by the soul of all that is good and ennobling, the unpardonable sin. But God has nothing to do with the withholding of pardon: Unpardonable, not because the Supreme will not pardon, but because the sinner chooses it to be so. Unpardonable because pardon is impossible where sin is congenial, and penitence unfelt. In other words, the soul chooses hell as the lesser of two evils, the greater being the arduous road to healing and regeneration. Such a soul rejects all offers of help by missionary spirits and thereby seals its own doom. Imperator tells Moses, however, that there is no arraignment before the assembled universe...as is in your mind. [The Day of Judgement] is an allegory...The soul is arbiter of its own destiny; its own judge. This is so in all cases of progress or retrogression. It is reassuring to be told by Imperator, Mercifully, such cases are rare.
 

Jones

Jedi Council Member
Here is another interesting quote from The Afterlife Unveiled: What the Dead are Telling Us About Their World by Stafford Betty. The following basically describes this forum in a nutshell!

Learning is a passion for Benson, for the pursuit of truth leads to progress upward into higher worlds and thus greater happiness. Learning meant, for Benson, spending a lot of time in the city’s immense ‘hall of literature.’ This library was unlike earth’s in more ways than its size. He explains:

I have dipped into history, and I was amazed when I started to read. … I found that side by side with statements of pure fact of every act by persons of historical note, by statesmen in whose hands was the government of their countries, by kings who were at the head of those same countries, side by side with such statements was the blunt naked truth of each and every motive governing or underlying their numerous acts – the truth beyond disputation. Many of such motives were elevated; many, many of them were utterly base.

Another way to grow in spirit is by serving others. Benson tells us he is governed by a constant urge to be doing something useful. Something that will be of benefit to others.
And 'learning is fun'

But all is not work. Much of the time work and play are intertwined, as in theatrical productions. Comedies usually center on the predicaments and misadventures of the old earth life: We can go to see comedies where, I do assure you, the laughter is invariably much more hearty and voluminous than is ever to be heard in a theatre of the earth-plane. In the spirit world we can afford to laugh at much that we once, when incarnate, treated with deadly seriousness and earnestness! Historical pageants are even more interesting, especially when the actors are the very men and women who played those roles back on earth: But surely the most impressive, and, at the same time, interesting experience is to be present at one of these pageants where the original participants themselves re-enact the events in which they were concerned, first as the events were popularly thought to have occurred, and then as they actually took place. In still other ways spirit theater is different from ours. For example, In such pageants the coarser, depraved and debased incidents are omitted entirely, because they would be distasteful to the audience, and, indeed, to all in this realm. Nor are we shown scenes which are, in the main incidents, nothing but battle and bloodshed and violence.
 
I just read an article on the Sott page and I remembered something I wrote when I was between 11 and 14 years old:



"I think, therefore I am" (Descartes)



- But... am I existence or am I thought?

- If I die... Does my existence die? Does my thought die?

- "Will not thought be true existence?"



(Thought of a child seeking the truth)



Greetings.:-)
 
Oops! ... Forget that each of you is in a different time zone, so the time of publication of the post is different for each one of you.

In my time zone, it was published at 12:21.

In short, nothing important, something curious without more.
 

thorbiorn

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I just watched an interview with Peter Fenwick and thought it was very interesting.


A.o. he said that people who are less self-centred will find it easier to let go of life when the time comes, but that guilt will weigh people down and will make it harder for people to give up life.
He also said that you would want to be prepared for death, so you can talk about the phenomena surrounding it.
And according to Fenwick materialists who begin the dying process give up their beliefs in nothingness after death: "they all start looking forward to what's happening to them".

I thought it was fascinating that apparently, some cats and dogs start howling when their humans pass away, clocks (even the modern ones) stop ticking and so on.

Thank you for sharing; Peter Fenwick gives an informative interview. For those who speak German, this interview is on the Thanatos youtube channel as
Thanatos has many other interviews with NDE researchers.
 
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itellsya

Ambassador
Ambassador
FOTCM Member
I haven't had chance to listen to it yet but this interview with a Dr. Erlendur Haraldsson with the host of YT channel Forum Borealis was posted recently and i think it may be relevant to the discussion. Forum Borealis is a good interviewer overall and does have some interesting guests, although, as always, it's advisable to bediscerning. Should anyone get round to listening to it before me and find anything worthwhile, please do post any notes or points of interest. He's also featured in a documentary mentioned in this post.





Forum Borealis

Published on Apr 26, 2019

Today we look into overwhelming scientific evidence for life after death, where Dr. Haraldsson relates studies in afterlife encounters, deathbed visions, & especially past life memories of children around the world. We examine what patterns are discovered, & discuss such questions as: What's the best verified cases? How long does reincarnation take? Do we come back in the same places & families? Do we come back in specific genders? Any memories of the time between death & rebirth? Any reports of life in other worlds? How to explain the population excess? And the professor shares his encounter with poltergeist as a young student...


And from the wiki page on Haraldsson:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Erlendur_Haraldsson said:
Erlendur Haraldsson (born 1931) is a professor emeritus of psychology on the faculty of social science at the University of Iceland. He has published in various psychology and psychiatry journals. In addition, he has published parapsychology books and authored a number of papers for parapsychology journals.

Teaching and research career

Erlendur worked as a research associate at the American Society for Psychical Research from 1972 to 1974. In 1973 he became a faculty member at the University of Iceland, where he advanced to Professor of Psychology in 1989. He retired from teaching in 1999.[1] He has conducted surveys of religious and folk beliefs; for example in a survey of randomly selected Icelanders conducted in 1974–75 and published in 1977 and 1978, he established that an unusually high proportion believe in the paranormal,[3] in particular in supernatural figures such as huldufólk and draugar, research built on in the 2000s by Terry Gunnell;[4] in a 1978 survey he examined the prevalence of belief in Iceland in precognitive dreams;[5][6] and in a study published in 1985 he found proportionally more reports of encounters with dead people from Iceland than any other European country.[7] He has also contributed to the cross-cultural standardization of psychological testing instruments.[8][9][10]

In addition, in 1982–83 he worked with Ian Stevenson at the University of Virginia on reincarnation research. He spent a year with J. B. Rhine in Durham, North Carolina. He has coauthored studies of the personality, abilities and psychological characteristics of children who claim memories of a previous life in Sri Lanka, comparing them with paired children who did not claim such memories.[11][12]

Erlendur received the Outstanding Career Award from the Parapsychological Association and the Myers Memorial Award from the Society for Psychical Research.[13] His 2005 book Látnir í heimi lifenda (English translation The Departed Among the Living, 2012) describes surveys and follow-up investigations he conducted into alleged apparitions and related phenomena in Iceland.

Deathbed phenomena

In 1971, Erlendur co-authored with Karlis Osis the book At the Hour of Death, describing research into deathbed visions in the United States and India that they interpreted as more consistent with the hypothesis of a transition experience than with the "extinction hypothesis".[14][15] Their data collection methods drew criticism from the scientific community.[16] According to Terence Hines:

Osis and Haraldsson’s (1977) study was based on replies received from ten thousand questionnaires sent to doctors and nurses in the United States and India. Only 6.4 percent were returned. Since it was the doctors and nurses who were giving the reports, not the patients who had, presumably, actually had the experience, the reports were secondhand. This means they had passed through two highly fallible and constructive human memory systems (the doctor’s or nurse’s and the actual patient’s) before reaching Osis and Haraldsson.[17]
The psychologist James Alcock criticized the study as it was anecdotal and described their results as "unreliable and unintepretable."[18] Paul Kurtz also criticized the study, saying all of the data was second-hand and influenced by cultural expectations.[19]

Sathya Sai Baba

Erlendur with Karlis Osis investigated the alleged miracles and paranormal powers of Sathya Sai Baba in the 1980s. He wrote the book Miracles Are My Visiting Cards (1988), also published as Modern Miracles (1997) and republished in 2013 as Modern Miracles: The Story of Sathya Sai Baba: A Modern Day Prophet which documented his investigation and research.[20][21] The book has been described as a "generally sympathetic treatment of Sai Baba".[22]

In the late 1980s the philosopher of religion David C. Lane wrote that Erlendur's book Modern Miracles "approaches the alleged miracles of Sai Baba with a critical, but open outlook" and recommended it as "the most balanced book ever written" on the subject. Sathya Sai Baba refused to submit to testing in a controlled environment, so Erlendur instead interviewed witnesses. Nevertheless, he debunked some of his alleged miracles, such as the resurrection of Walter Cowan.[23]

Philosopher Paul Edwards noted how Erlendur did not come to any definite conclusion about the authenticity of Baba's miracles but regarded fraud as unlikely.[24] Psychologist Janak Pandey wrote that Erlendur was impressed by Baba but could not get him to produce any paranormal phenomena under controlled conditions.[25]

The parapsychologist Martin Johnson claimed Erlendur had published some "remarkably naïve eyewitness-accounts of the Indian saint's feats" and was surprised Erlendur was taking the possibility that Baba was not a fraud.[26] Daniel Bassuk Professor of Religious Studies at the University of South Florida wrote "Haraldsson and Osis conclude that they were unable to detect any evidence of fraud, and were led to regard Satya Sai Baba's materializations as 'possibly paranormal'."[27]

The Indian skeptic Basava Premanand criticized the book as a collection of anecdotes rather than an objective scientific report,[28] and the humanist Babu Gogineni found it credulous, saying Erlendur was "more predisposed to believe than to investigate", concluding: "The only lesson one can learn from Erlendur Haraldsson is how not to study the paranormal events."[29]

Retirement

Since his retirement, Erlendur has continued to conduct research and publish articles. In 2007 he brought about the establishment of an endowment at the University of Iceland to support research "into paranormal phenomena and alleged psychic experiences in the spirit of the research [he] conducted during his career".[30][31] In 2012 with Hafliði Helgason, he published a memoir, Á vit hins ókunna, in which he discusses the results of his interviews with children who believe they recall past lives.[32] He is a frequent speaker at professional meetings, such as the convention of the American Psychological Association in Orlando, Florida, in 2012.
 

itellsya

Ambassador
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FOTCM Member
I haven't had chance to listen to it yet but this interview with a Dr. Erlendur Haraldsson with the host of YT channel Forum Borealis was posted recently and i think it may be relevant to the discussion. [...]
So i got round to listening to most of it last night and i wasn't taking any notes so most of this is from memory (although i did just skip through to double check a few things!), and much of the below relates to the most of the children and the patterns he has observed:

- Dr Haralsson interviewed ~ 60 subjects from Sri Lanka (mostly Buddhists but also Muslims and Christian), India (mostly Hindu's), Lebanon (Druze - who do believe in reincarnation); and i think he said Iceland (Christians); some countries all of the above religions practising; all religions have their examples of children claiming to be reincarnated
- Most of the subjects tended to be children under 6 years old
- Tend to forget after age 6/7/8/9 years old, some retain memories till later but often only 10% of what they said when young, according to his study
- Tended to reincarnate into the same gender, but not all
- Tended to reincarnate in or near the region they were from in their past life; one case was a guy from Sri Lanka, working in the Middle East, was reincarnated back in Sri Lanka
- Suffered sudden or violent deaths - 'maybe because you're thrown out of your life and reincarnated quickly they remember their past lives more'
- They appear to more gifted, greater vocabulary
- Suffer from PTSD
- Can't accept their current family, identify with past life (for a time anyway)
- He only talks about those subjects he interviewed, taking his research as far as he could; asking grandparents, friends and any details so as to corroborate the story, such as visiting the families the children claim to be coming from
- Some cases couldn't be verified and some are clearly fantasies
- Some cases the evidence is surprising: A child claimed to be a monk who had money and drove a red car, they couldn't believe it because monks don't drive or save money, it turned out he was a head monk who, because of his position, did own a red car and held money, the child also said the "secret password" which was confirmed by monastery; another child knew terms and the procedure for mining that he couldn't have know
- The average time before reincarnating was something like 1-2 years but it could be much less, one case was a week
- There appears to be no real incentive for the children, and sometimes parents would try to stop the children from talking about it
- One girl was in between life, "saw a light and came here" (where he got his book title from)
- Can't comment/didn't come across any cases where any children were reincarnated on another planet, backwards in time or in a different species (he was asked this question by the interviewer)


- He then goes on to talk about Sai Baba's supposed miracles, mentioned in the Wiki blurb above, and how some holy people do display unusual abilities
 

itellsya

Ambassador
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FOTCM Member
Obviously some of the information above may be familiar to those who've ever read about reincarnation, but there were a few points that i thought were particularly interesting:

- Tended to reincarnate into the same gender, but not all
- Tended to reincarnate in or near the region they were from in their past life; one case was a guy from Sri Lanka, working in the Middle East, was reincarnated back in Sri Lanka
- Suffered sudden or violent deaths - 'maybe because you're thrown out of your life and reincarnated quickly they remember their past lives more'
- They appear to more gifted, greater vocabulary
- Suffer from PTSD
I find it very interesting that people are reincarnating in a particular locality. It actually surprised me because, of the stories i've come across with children claiming to be from another family, the parents track them down, and it has almost always been a family who are at least within driving distance (even if it's a quite a long drive). This was a pattern that i'd never made a connection with before although it was very true, at least from the stories i'd encountered. Is it some genetic resonance thing? Something to do with particular lessons? Are they tied to a particular tribe? I can't say, but i would think it may be a mix of those things and more.

That they're reincarnating, mostly, into the same gender, reminds me of the the gender dysphoria phenomenon/social contagion. Perhaps there are specific experiences of gender which we must learn to progress? And that's why we reincarnate into the same gender? Although we must bear in mind these are the remembrances of the most recent life only, so maybe our incarnations do involve a mix of both but only after certain things have been learnt and the soul is ready? Not sure.

In some ways, i don't think it's necessary that we reincarnate into a drastically different 'tribe', just to learn certain things - slavery, poverty, suffering have existed throughout the world and cultures, for example - and so it seems certain experiences are readily available everywhere.

It also makes me think about ancestor worship... although my thoughts aren't fully formulated on that yet.

The fact that these reincarnation events and the lingering memories occurred after particularly violent or sudden deaths actually makes sense, although i hadn't thought about it like that either.

Anyway, those are just some initial thoughts that come to mind. A few of us discussed some of the points from the interview earlier and there were some interesting correlations and comments made.
 

Ant22

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
- Tended to reincarnate into the same gender, but not all
- Tended to reincarnate in or near the region they were from in their past life; one case was a guy from Sri Lanka, working in the Middle East, was reincarnated back in Sri Lanka
- Suffered sudden or violent deaths -
'maybe because you're thrown out of your life and reincarnated quickly they remember their past lives more'
- They appear to more gifted, greater vocabulary
- Suffer from PTSD
I find it very interesting that people are reincarnating in a particular locality. It actually surprised me because, of the stories i've come across with children claiming to be from another family, the parents track them down, and it has almost always been a family who are at least within driving distance (even if it's a quite a long drive). This was a pattern that i'd never made a connection with before although it was very true, at least from the stories i'd encountered. Is it some genetic resonance thing? Something to do with particular lessons? Are they tied to a particular tribe? I can't say, but i would think it may be a mix of those things and more.

That they're reincarnating, mostly, into the same gender, reminds me of the the gender dysphoria phenomenon/social contagion. Perhaps there are specific experiences of gender which we must learn to progress? And that's why we reincarnate into the same gender? Although we must bear in mind these are the remembrances of the most recent life only, so maybe our incarnations do involve a mix of both but only after certain things have been learnt and the soul is ready? Not sure.

Thank you for the summary itellsya. It's really interesting! I was wondering if the proximity of the previous and current life locations as well as the same gender have to do with the fact that they suffered violent deaths? Maybe they needed to complete certain lessons that are specific to that location and gender - and the new life becomes a continuation of the previous one in a way?

Laura lived in Germany in her previous life so I guess proximity of location isn't a rule.

Also, you didn't mention any reports of descriptions of the afterlife mentioned here before. What gave me this idea is the fact that one person said she "saw a light and came here", which sounds like she was in some sort of a limbo, not the afterlife world.

Just some speculations.
 

Voyageur

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
I find it very interesting that people are reincarnating in a particular locality.
If recalled, the C's discuss locations, as in birth locations geographically (locator) in terms of there being a strong draw as an adult, if away. I went looking for this and can't immediately locate those references, and it makes sense to be drawn to ones place of birth, yet perhaps this operates just the same from a reincarnated standpoint - this draw.

Along with the above, there is the aspect of reincarnating to where the soul group congregates for continued interactions/lessons.

Thanks for the Haraldsson interview account.
 

itellsya

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Thank you for the summary itellsya. It's really interesting! I was wondering if the proximity of the previous and current life locations as well as the same gender have to do with the fact that they suffered violent deaths? Maybe they needed to complete certain lessons that are specific to that location and gender - and the new life becomes a continuation of the previous one in a way?
Yeah, i think the point that most of the subjects studied died sudden or violent deaths is notable, and it may be an important factor in what happens next for them.

Laura lived in Germany in her previous life so I guess proximity of location isn't a rule.
This is true, although many of the settlers of the US were of European stock, culturally and genetically, so, in a way, maybe there is still some legacy thing going on there? So, although geographically there is much more distance than those mentioned in the study, there are also great similarities between those incarnations, too. Also, although migrations have occurred repeatedly throughout world history, was the migration for so many people from Europe to the US quite a modern and specific phenomenon?

Although it's also possible that there are cases which do not follow the pattern at all noted in the subjects studied. Whether that be because of the stage the soul is at, cause of death, maybe even necessity, and so on.

Also, you didn't mention any reports of descriptions of the afterlife mentioned here before. What gave me this idea is the fact that one person said she "saw a light and came here", which sounds like she was in some sort of a limbo, not the afterlife world.
He does briefly mentioned something about NDE's - I think he says that other researchers are already doing work there so they are best able to speak about that. But from what i recall, there is no mention of any 5D - reviews, otherworlds - kinda stuff. There's the comment about reincarnation happening most often after 1-2 years, but as quickly as 1 week, so i wonder, do they not get a review? I'd imagine they do, but i don't know. Maybe they just hang around on earth till they reincarnate? Although one would expect that time works differently so maybe the idea of 1-2 years and 1 week is going to be hard to reconcile?

I guess for some of the musings above we need much more data.
 

3DStudent

The Living Force
FOTCM Member
There's the comment about reincarnation happening most often after 1-2 years, but as quickly as 1 week, so i wonder, do they not get a review? I'd imagine they do, but i don't know. Maybe they just hang around on earth till they reincarnate? Although one would expect that time works differently so maybe the idea of 1-2 years and 1 week is going to be hard to reconcile?
I thought all that stuff happens in zero time, or at least outside of 3D linear time. So if it's one week or years, it is just the point of view from our time that it happens. It may seem like a 'wait' to us, but maybe they choose a particular 'insertion point' in time. And so by a few years on the high end, there's most likely a desirable incarnative opportunity available.
 

Kay Kim

Dagobah Resident
So, no one individual has the chance to stand alone in this 3D, that against 4D STS.
Because of that, we are connected to each other spiritually, thus we stand as one unit group in this Forum.
That gives us fortified our strength, but I found out that deceased former Forum members from other-side adding their energies too!!!

Session Date: August 30th 2009

Laura, Ark, Joe, A***, P****, Allen, C***, Scottie, G***

A: ......Carry on with awareness and networking! And, as always knowledge protects!! Finally, Victoria and others on that plane are adding their energies to yours in solidarity. This is possible due to the connections established in your realm.

Q: (L) So you're saying that people that have been connected to us who have gone over to the other side can add their energies to ours kind of in a more pure way, but only people who have been connected to us can do that? Is that more or less what you're saying?

A: Yes

Q: (L) So it's not just anybody indiscriminately who could do that, it's people you have actually got a connection to. ......

A: Oh yes!

Q: (A***n) So can we say hi to Victoria?

A: She is laughing!
 
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