Descriptions of the "afterlife"/5th Density

[Wandering Star]

Yesterday my youngest son asked me a question: "Dad, what car you hate?"

An innocent and innocuous question.

I replied: "I do not hate anything!"

He looked at me without understanding.

Hatred comes from "ignorance", from not understanding something. When you understand, when you understand, when you have knowledge about something, you simply can not hate it, I replied.

The term "son of man" liked the teacher very much (I think all of them really).

How do you become a "son of man"?

We review our lives and we regret many of our actions and some of us are horrified. But thanks to them "we understand".

You are my brother because I know you. And I know you because your sins are mine, your mistakes are mine and thanks to that, whatever you do, I can never hate you.

They are all lessons, there is nothing else.

The grief of the applied student is not to learn.

If in life we understand, we have taken advantage of the lessons (our mistakes and sins).

By the way, from my perspective that does not mean either "put the other cheek", far from it.

Life put us against a wall and we missed.

How great that when he does it again, we look into his eyes with a big and understanding smile.

 

[AzarHyun]

Great topic, thank you all for sharing your Knowledge and toughts.
just want to share with you most recently Raymond Moodys YT interview with host Jeffrey Mishlove.

Mishlove is the author of an encyclopedic volume of consciousness studies, The Roots of Consciousness.

He is keeping up the flame as host of New Thinking Allowed, an ongoing YouTube based series.

Dr. Mishlove is a past director of the Association for Humanistic Psychology, and has served as President of the Intuition Network.

Jeffrey holds the only doctoral diploma in parapsychology to be awarded by an accredited American university (University of California, Berkeley). A revision of his doctoral dissertation, Psi Development Systems, was released in 1988 as a Ballantine paperback. This book evaluates methods purported to train psychic abilities. He is also author of The PK Man.

 

[goyacobol]

I find myself wanting to "like" all the posts here. Even if I think some may be overly optimistic I appreciate the thought being put into them.

We may at least be thinking of where we are now and where we want to be in the future. Knowing wishful thinking won't get us there it becomes rather serious (at least for myself).'

I am reminded of something Caesar said in that rare special session:

Session 12 July 2014:

Q: (Atriedes) If you could give 3 pieces of advice to the world, what would they be?

A: I was wrong to think I could change the masses by example. Humans are fickle and self-centered for the most part. Thus, if you wish to really effect changes, it can only be done by early education, and even then it is fragile and will not last. In the end you must be true to your own nature and fear nothing. If you do that you may make a difference after you are gone. That is not exactly what you are looking for, but there are no 3 pieces of advice that serve all events.

 

[Zadius Sky]

It all made me think back to a passage in the book "Heading Toward Omega" or some such title (may have been the other book by the same author), where one person who had come back from a NDE and told what it was like for the short time he (or she) had been in that out of body state, looking back on life doings and experiences. As I recall, the individual was nearly devastated with overwhelming and heavy grief, over what would appear, in this reality, to be a relatively innocuous act: a small, careless, unkindness to a child. If anybody has ever read those books, maybe they can find the passage in question and reproduce it here. I believe that it deserves some discussion. And I think that a good focus for discussion is not so much what we should expect to GET "on the other side," but what we should do to be always ready to make that passage.

Indeed. I recall similar accounts in my past readings on this subject that I may need to revisit.

I went back to my Kindle copy of Ring's Heading Toward Omega and found this section* from the book that may or may not be the passage in question but touches on how everything in our lives are "recorded" and there's "no hiding anything":

We may now move on to some further cases that will provide ample evidence of certain features of the core experience that have so far only been alluded to in passing or have been neglected altogether.

We begin these new cases with the account of a sixty-four-year-old man whom I'll call Harold. Since Harold is retired and has a mobile home, he travels quite a bit and once when he was in the Northeast, he was kind enough to drive to the university so that I could interview him. I'll quote, however, from a written version of his NDE that he later sent to me.

In April, 1977, while raking leaves in front of the his house, Harold suffered a heart attack. He describes the unfolding of his core experience as follows:

A brilliant white-yellow warm pillar of light confronted me. I was now in a light golden cellular embodiment and the greatest feeling of warmth and love and tenderness became part of me. My consciousness or soul was at the foot or base. When I tried to look up (not exactly so, but the closest words I can use) I saw the sweet smile and love of my father at the time when I was a young child and he held me and loved me. I felt this love permeating my being. (I had never any conscious remembrance of this nor thought of my father for years.)

Instantly my entire life was laid bare and open to this wonderful presence, "GOD." I felt inside my being his forgiveness for the things in my life I was ashamed of, as though they were not of great importance. I was asked - but there were no words; it was a straight mental instantaneous communication - "What had I done to benefit or advance the human race?" At the same time all my life was presented instantly in front of me and I was shown or made to understand what counted. I am not going into any further but, believe me, what I had counted in life as unimportant was my salvation and what I thought was important was nil.

We see here many of the now familiar elements of the core experience - the light, the love, the sense of total acceptance and forgiveness, and so on - but the life-review phenomenon is of especial interest to us here. In this case, that review was presented in the context of the question, in effect, "What have you done with your life?" And as Harold himself observes, what he thought mattered, didn't, and what he held to be important turned out to be insignificant. We will see in some of the cases to follow that Harold's experience in this respect was not unique.

Next I present the case of another good friend, whom I'll call Hank. Another researcher, John Audette, who had first interviewed Hank, introduced me to him. Hank and I first met in August 1979 at the American Psychological Association convention in New York. Norma was with me on that trip and we both took an instant shine to Hank. Since that time we've visited one another's home on several occasions (Hank lives in Virginia) and have had many conversations centering on his NDE and the aftereffects. On one occasion I met Hank late one evening at a Baltimore hotel prior to a television engagement we both had the next day, and I taped his experience in full. The following excerpt is taken from that conversation.

In November 1975, when he was just nineteen years old, Hank was badly injured in an automobile accident. He suffered numerous physical injuries and it was thought for some time that he would not survive them.

In the first part of his NDE, he found himself in something like a "very large room" in which he became aware of other "beings." At one point,

...from the forward left-hand corner of the room, another being entered. This being was of an even brighter aura - glow - than we were. His glow was almost like reaching out, so to speak; it just came out and engulfed you. It filled every corner of the room... Even though the brightness was intense you could still make out something of the features, that kind of thing. The brightness did not hurt your eyes... It had a kind of golden-type white - mostly white, I would say - and I could make out a form of him... The feeling was so intense, it was almost as if I could have been completely engulfed by it, and the light also provided a warmth and love. I had the warmth and love toward this person so intense, total trust, not like a love I've had for anything or anybody. It is so hard to describe 'cause it's hard to realize a total surrendering-type love, a total love that kind of immerses you. The kind that no matter what he would have told me, I'd have done...

This part of the core experience we now know well, but it is what Hank reported afterward that makes his words of special value here. Hank's conversation rambles a bit in what follows, but his meaning is clear and instructive.

... He [then] asked me, "Do you know where you are?" ... I said, "Yes." ... And he said, "What is your decision?" When he said that ... it was like I knew everything that was stored in my brain. Everything I'd ever known from the beginning of my life I immediately knew about. And also what was kind of scary was that I knew everybody else in the room knew I knew and that there was no hiding anything - the good times, the bad times, everything... I had a total complete knowledge of everything that had ever happened in my life - even little minute things that I had forgotten ... just everything, which gave me a better understanding of everything at the moment. Everything was so clear.

... I realized that there are things that every person is sent to earth to realize and to learn. For instance, to share more love, to be more loving toward one another. To discover that the most important thing is human relationships and love and not materialistic things. And to realize that every single thing that you do in your life is recorded and that even though you pass it by not thinking at the time, it always comes up later. For instance, you may be ... at a stoplight and you're in a hurry and the lady in front of you, when the light turns green, doesn't take off, [she] doesn't notice the light, and you get upset and start honking your horn and telling them to hurry up. Those are the little kind of things that are recorded that you don't realize at the time are really important. One of the things that I discovered that is very important is patience toward other human beings and realizing that you yourself may be in that situation sometime.

If you return to another early account - that of the sixty-four-year-old woman from Seattle on pages 55-56 - you're again find a brief allusion in the beginning of her narrative to the process that Hank describes in detail. Recall that she said simply, "I was aware ... of my past life. It was like it was being recorded..." And certainly what Hank experienced not only provides more information on that aspect of the core NDE but obviously jibes quite closely with Harold's statement that we've just considered.

*From Chapter 3 ("Core NDEs and Spiritual Awakening").

 

[genero81]

I read Dannion Brinkley's 'Saved by the Light' years before coming across anything Cass related. Laura's post really had me pondering and I remembered that Dannion was quite the bully; I mean like physically assaulted people. So I wanted to see if I could find something that talked about that and how that came across in his near death life review. Low and behold, I found exactly what I was looking for. Now the vid is over an hour long but he gets right into it, so you don't need but about maybe ten minutes if that's all you have. He discusses even the difference between the violence committed in war scenario as opposed to the violence he did as a bully and how the latter is so much worse.

Dannion Brinkley – Explains the life review and Judgement | Believe it or not

ndevideos.com

 

[Bluefyre]

Just found this thread and have only read the first few posts, but Joe's initial hit me like a tonne of bricks, just what I needed today! Looking forward to a good read. I've just ordered the book as well. Thanks so much Joe! And Laura for suggesting!

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

I've LIKE'd all the posts on this thread as every one contains nuggets of very important information. It's stunning and moving and a very scary when I think on my past and present life and ignorance not being an excuse.

 

[BrendaH]

While looking for something to read I stumbled upon a thread titled Howard Storm's NDE of the future world.

From Howard Storm – DNDE, NDE | NDE Stories

Howard Storm was born October 26, 1946, in Flushing, New York. He is a former art professor and chairman of the art department at the Northern Kentucky University. Before his near-death experience, Storm reports that he was not a pleasant man. He was an angry atheist that was hostile to every form of religion, as well as those who practiced it. He considered all spiritual belief systems to be fantasies created by deluded people. He knew with certainty that the material world was all that existed. He would often use rage to control the people around him and didn’t find joy in anything. On June 1, 1985, at the age of 38, Storm suffered a perforation of the stomach, which led to his death and a profound near-death experience. When he returned to this world, he was a changed man.

He talks about his NDE in this video:

He said that some beings were calling him from the hallway, and he followed them until at a certain point he refused to go because it was getting darker and darker, and these people now were being more openly hostile to him. When he refused to go further, these beings started to fight him, there were thousands of them and at a certain point he heard his own voice telling him to pray. He did it and the beings went away. He said that these beings wanted to inflict pain on him, which was satisfying for them. After this, he found himself alone in this place and had no sense of time, then he started to think about his life and the things that he had done and hadn’t done. He concluded that he lived his adult life selfishly and realized that those beings that attacked him were just like him. This realization was emotionally painful. Then he remembered himself as a child singing “Jesus loves me”, so he started to call him, and he came and took him out of that place.

Basically, is more of the same we've been reading on this thread, he feels regret for the things that he did in his life and judges himself. IMHO, and I’m going to say something that I’ve been thinking based on what I’ve been reading on this thread and in a book, and now based on this case: It happens that some people, when they are afraid and feel helpless in front of a certain situation, the first thing that they do is pray. If you’re a religious person, well, it makes sense, but what if you’re an atheist for example? I have a friend who recently got on a plane for the first time and unfortunately there was a lot of turbulence during his trip. This man always identified himself as an atheist, but in that moment he started to pray like never before, and he didn’t even know the prayer, so he was starting over and over again (). He received a Christian education as a kid, and “god”, the Christian God, was the only god he knew, that was the only religious base he had. Who else would he pray to if "god" was the only god he knew?

In the case of Howard Storm, he was religious as a kid too, and when he found himself in such a scary and different situation, he called Jesus and he came to save him (What a coincidence!). And I’ve noticed from other cases that, this other side takes shape according to the person’s belief (could it be possible that the place changes according to the knowledge of the person?). That may certainly be helpful because, how much is the soul of a 3D being prepared to know without violating their free will or interfering in their lessons? I think it would be really interesting to know what people, with different beliefs and that had a NDE, remember from their experience. For example, I doubt a Buddhist will meet Jesus.

Something that I also want to share is that the author of the above thread shared a link to a video that's no longer available, and luckily I was able to find a video on YouTube where the same things shared on that thread are mentioned.

Here's a transcript I found on the internet:

The world that they showed me in the near future, in a couple hundred years from now, is a world that is difficult for me to understand or accept. What I saw was no visible signs of technology. If there was technology, they hid it from me — or it was so subtle that I couldn’t even see it… I assumed the future would be a world of high technology and they showed me a world of not low technology, but NO technology. Where people’s relationship with God, with the creation, and with one another was so intense that human beings controlled the weather of the planet — not just for the welfare of human beings, but for the welfare of the entire planet. Everybody in the world was telepathically connected to everybody else in the whole world. People raised food by simply meditating or thinking about the food and the food would just grow and then would pick it and eat it… It was not instantaneous, but it happened before your eyes. Cabbage would grow from a seed to a full grown cabbage in a matter of a few minutes.

People lived in small communities. People could move from community to community, freely, if they wanted to. Most people didn’t move around very much. Some communities put an emphasis on music. Some communities put an emphasis on science. Some communities put an emphasis on celebration, liturgy, worship. Some communities spent their time on physical relaxation and enjoyment, sports, and that sort of thing. Some communities were very contemplative and did seemingly very little. Some communities were very active and were very much engaged with their environment, sort of what we would call gardeners, but they were literally environmental sculptors, making these very beautiful places with the vegetation and the geology around them. Different communities had different emphasis, but they lived in total harmony with the flora and the fauna around them and in complete harmony with one another. The main emphasis of every community was the individuals in the community and most especially the children.

When people had experienced what they felt was their full life experience, there would be a great celebration, and they would lay down and die and their souls, their spirits would be raised up to heaven. Dying was not seen as a sad thing, or grievous thing. It was a joyous time. It was celebrated as a birth.

People ate simply. Dressed simply. From what I was shown, there were no possessions other than the clothes on their back and a few simple instruments like musical instruments, or tools, or things like that which were pretty much shared communally.

It was a world that’s very difficult for me to make any sense of because there was great happiness. There was very little suffering. There was no disease because people, with laying on of hands, could heal diseases immediately. The only real suffering that they showed me was sometimes people felt a sense of separateness. And the community would allow these people to feel that, but they would pray for that person, they would surround that person with love and bring that person back into the community. So it was possible for people to move a little bit away from the spirit of the community, but they were brought back into the community. No one was left, no one was ever lost for very long. It was important sometimes for people to feel; to appreciate what they had, they needed to loose a little bit of it once and awhile.

The spirit of Christ lived in every heart — fully and completely. It’s a world that is so unlike the world that we live in. How can we ever get there? But they showed me that this is the world that God envisioned for us and it’s not that far away.

As Nicholas, the author of that thread, wrote, this seems to be describing an STO world.

 

[Andrew]

Laura's post really had me pondering and I remembered that Dannion was quite the bully; I mean like physically assaulted people. So I wanted to see if I could find something that talked about that and how that came across in his near death life review. Low and behold, I found exactly what I was looking for.

Thank you Genero81. I needed this. I was quite a terrible person when I was younger also. And that thought has been weighing heavily ever since reading this thread.

 

[hlat]

Stafford Betty talks about "Terminal Lucidity" in Chapter 9. It's basically when people who have no way to speak or think due to a severe loss of brain function (i.e. advanced Alzheimer's disease) suddenly recover their cognitive abilities and say good to bye to loved ones. Shortly afterwards, they die.

Speculation: might possession account for terminal lucidity? That is, speculating that the possessing spirit does not need a host brain to control bodily functions such as speaking. So that it is actually the spirit of the dying person, upon partial detachment from one's own body, that comes to possess the body and bypasses the lost brain.

 

[Gaby]

Speculation: might possession account for terminal lucidity? That is, speculating that the possessing spirit does not need a host brain to control bodily functions such as speaking. So that it is actually the spirit of the dying person, upon partial detachment from one's own body, that comes to possess the body and bypasses the lost brain.

The author speculates about something like that, but he doesn't use the word possession. He distinguishes possession phenomena and its detrimental results as opposed to soul activity from within the person and its positive results. I think he does that in the book because critics have used "possession" as an excuse as to why reincarnation or any soul activity cannot exist. He analyses this criticism in the book.

 

[goyacobol]

Many of the NDE experiences presented here vary from person to person and I think there may be one explanation by the Cs that could help explain why.

Session 19 November 1994:

Q: (L) When a person dies and leaves the body, are the beings who take charge of the soul and direct the end-of-life review and the next life plan, are these beings similar to what we call aliens?

A: Sometimes. But on individual basis and level 5 density.

Q: (L) So, are you saying that any "aliens" that would be assisting with this type of thing would be of the level 5 density? Or, that the individual would be of the 5th level?

A: Alien is based on one's perspective.

Q: (L) But, does this mean that the "being" is the level 5 density person?

A: Yes. Reflective of experience vibration.

Each of us have unique experiences to review so I think that it makes sense they are not all the same.

 

[Starshine]

Thank you for answering Gaby, your expanded perspective is helpful.
As Laura said, the real question is what should we do to be ready to make that passage?
I also have had many memories popping up lately, reviewing my past actions. Some of them hadn't crossed my mind for a long while, some seemed trivial at the time, but there is always an emotional implication to them. It really is an exercise in expanding empathy and confronting one's own lies and true intentions. I guess it will continue as an ongoing process. There are some things I've done which I never really forgave myself of. When I've hurt others, I knew right after that it was wrong. But, hey, too late, live with it. I always remembered those actions. I feel like always having been really sensitive to the pain I've caused.

I remember Ark saying somewhere that every trivial thing or minor choice is important and should be considered.
All in all, I feel ready to face my actions and the pain I've caused.
I feel like having reached a threshold in regards to death. Those last discoveries give plenty to think about, and also remind me of Gurdjieff talking about true responsibilities versus false responsibilities. I feel more serene and ready to face the present and future ahead.

It's like a confirmation for the DCM from a scientific point of view through DBB's thread and another confirmation that living by principles and bettering one's character truly has value, it's far from being vain. And that in itself brings me a lot of joy.
Faith is developing along with gratitude.

 

[fabric]

Jordan Peterson recently uploaded his March Q & A. In it, one of the questions asked was “What is a soul, to you?” I wasn’t sure where to post it, but I think it has some relevance to the discussion here, so here it is. Transcript below the video.

Q: What is a soul, to you?

JP: That's a hard question. I would say, like theologically, a soul is that aspect of the human being that's akin to divinity, it’s made in the image of God. I think that that's a very very important concept. I don’t think a society can survive. I don't think that you can survive a relationship with yourself. I don't think you can have a relationship with another person and I don't think a society can organize itself in a productive and sustainable and peaceful manner without that idea as the core idea.

The core idea is that there's something of irreducible value that characterizes each human being and that it is of the highest value, which is what makes it say akin to God or akin to divinity.

That's the soul. Then the question is, maybe, how does that manifest itself in the world? What are its hallmarks? I would say that that’s very tightly associated with what modern people describe as consciousness. There's more to it than consciousness because it's also character but I would say character is a manifestation of consciousness.

What consciousness does, as far as I can tell, is confront unformed potential. This is partly why I think it’s improper - I'm writing a fair bit about this right now in my new book - why it’s improper to think of people as deterministic.

You’re deterministic once you’ve established a habit and you've practiced something for a very long period of time. You become more deterministic in your actions because you're expert at reacting and there's neurophysiological circuits that are laid down to facilitate your action under those conditions and to run with some degree of automaticity.

Most of the time what you confront is the changing future, the future of potential. It's like a place of multiple pathways and your consciousness is that part of you that confronts those multiple pathways and decides which one to walk down. It does so according to its ethic.

We talked earlier about the fact that you need a value hierarchy, it's inevitable that you have a value hierarchy, and that you look at the world through it and that it should be well-structured and that there should be something of divine importance at the top. I would say what should occupy the top position is the realization, for example, that each person is of divine value and that the most appropriate way of interacting with potential is by embodying and speaking the truth. That's not a bad way of briefly conceptualizing what might be at the highest pinnacle of the value structure. I would say that’s what the logos is.

The soul is what manifests itself in the choice between different pathways, in the choice between different ways of transforming the potential of the future into the actuality of the present. It does that by making ethical decisions, by choosing between good and evil at each choice point. To the degree that it chooses good then it takes the raw potential of the future and it transforms it into the being of the present that is good. And to the degree that it does that in the manner that’s evil and contaminated by malevolence and hatred and vengefulness, then it takes a pathway that corrupts the world and makes things worse.

It's the soul that's doing that and it's the soul that's responsible for that and it’s also that active part of the soul that’s shaping the deeper soul, in some sense, which would be something like the cumulative consequence of all those choices. Something akin to what people more classically have referred to as character.

Now, I don't know what to say really, about the metaphysics of the soul except that it's very mysterious that we have this capacity for consciousness which is completely beyond our current understanding. We have no good reductionist accounts of consciousness except those put forward to deny the very existence of something like consciousness and freewill.

The problem I have with those arguments is that the first thing is that you don’t look deterministic until you've built habits sets. That's a consequence of consciousness because consciousness builds habit sets. The second is that it doesn't seem to be possible to organize a relationship with yourself, or an intimate partner, or a family, or a community without the concept of the divine value of the individual and the capacity of that divine spark, let's say, to manifest itself in free will. I don't see how societies can organize themselves without those principles and to me that indicates that there's something about them that's profoundly true.

Now, you know, we all have our definitions of what constitutes sufficient proof for truth but I think that's powerful. Those are two powerful arguments. So, it's hard to say what the soul means metaphysically because beyond the confines of a single human being we do have this sense that the soul can expand itself into something that's greater than it has been. It has this capacity for growth and we do have the sense that the soul can expand itself to the point where it's enlightened, for lack of a better word, that it's working as efficiently as possible to transform everything that’s unnecessarily painful and malevolent about the world into what's positive and good.

It does that as a consequence of confronting the world with courage and truth and I think that's right. And I do think that that means that the soul participates in something eternal which is the attempt of being itself to transform what’s unnecessarily painful and malevolent into what's good and that human beings actually do participate in that and that that's part of the reason that our ancient tradition insists that were made in the image of God.

I think that it's a mistake to underestimate the importance of that because I don't think that you can live a life of sufficient profundity to protect yourself from being corrupted by suffering and malevolence without adopting a responsibility that's commensurate with that set of ideas.

I think that you either orient yourself upward to the star above the horizon and try desperately to improve the structure of being or you work at counter purposes to it and make things worse. I don't think there's a middle ground. In fact, to the degree there is a middle ground, it tilts towards the negative because people who try to occupy the middle ground try to generally accrue the benefit, let’s say, without adopting any of the risk and that's not acceptable. Not helpful.

That's the soul to me.

I guess I would say one more thing about that: a soul is also the center of the world, which is a frightening proposition and not one that's easily comprehensible.

Solzhenitsyn's work in the Gulag Archipelago is particularly enlightening in this regard because he insisted that it was a preconception of our Judeo-Christian heritage that each person was a center of the cosmos and you can think of that as a center of consciousness. Center from which being itself is not only reflected but also generated.

It was Solzhenitsyn's belief and Dostoyevsky's as well - and I think Jung would have been in accordance with this and Nietzsche as well, for that matter - that in some manner that we don't fathom, because we don't understand the structure of the world very well, the outcome of the world is dependent on our choices and equally on all of our choices. I know that to be true or feel that to be true.

It's part of the doctrine that each person is of intrinsic and equal worth. Part of that doctrine is that each person has intrinsic and equal responsibility and that we're each capable of generating a fair bit of hell around us and for other people but also capable of generating a tremendous amount of good and that the fate of the world as it careens through eternity is actually a consequence of the ethical decisions of each of us.

It's a terrifying idea. It's no wonder people flee from it into hedonism and ideology. It's a very frightening possibility that the choices that you make day to day, or fail to make, have this profound and lasting effect on the structure of reality but... I don’t really see any way out of that conclusion, so...

In his answer was the idea that the cumulative consequences of all the choices we make have an effect on the development of the soul and that each choice we make (or fail to make) also affect our reality in a lasting way for which we are ultimately responsible for.

This point in particular stood out for me because it often seems to be the case that we don’t realize how much we are responsible for until it is too late. So, in that sense, the process described in life review is a very necessary thing if we are to learn how to orient ourselves in future lives, if not in this life.

 

[Matthew]

Thank you fabric; I think Peterson expressed that quite beautifully. I agree with everything he said and it is essentially how I think and deal with life although he elucidated it more eloquently than I would have been able to do when presented by such a question. By tying it in to the post death life review process we have been discussing in this thread you made a good point too. There is a pragmatic purpose to us being shown the effects on others of the sum of our choices whilst in 3D Land. It is not to torture us with guilt and shame but to hold a mirror up to us so we see the results of the choices we have made, all of them, big and small.