Detox Question

mocachapeau

Dagobah Resident
I've been searching the forum for information on detoxing. There sure is a lot of it, and many different methods. I was wondering if someone could point me in the direction of a thread I could read where I would find the most recommended method of detox for someone on the keto diet. I would like to do a good cleansing, followed by incorporating more regular detox in my diet.

I'm not looking for someone to spell it out for me, just to help me find the most helpful thread that I can study, myself.

Thanks.
 
Hi mocachapeau,

For someone being on the keto diet, if the body isn't too compromised, the diet and the body's natural detox capacity will take care of most of the detoxing. I think the only detoxing you specifically need to do in addition to the diet is heavy metal detoxing. The thread
Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions
has good information on that topic.
 
Thanks Bobo. I appreciate your help.

I don't think my body is too compromised, but I know I've been eating some things I should avoid, a little more often than might be acceptable. Not gluten or excessive carbs, but meat from the grocery store or things with added crap that I should be avoiding. I would like to try to get rid of any of that.

Thanks again.
 
I am sorry I don't have a specific thread. When we detoxed we ate a lot of cilantro and took chlorella. Most benefit it seems was from Epsom salt. I do not think I have ever seen it listed as a detox but magnesium and sulfur do amazing things to get the bad metals out of your system.
 
mocachapeau said:
...I don't think my body is too compromised, but I know I've been eating some things I should avoid, a little more often than might be acceptable. Not gluten or excessive carbs, but meat from the grocery store or things with added crap that I should be avoiding. I would like to try to get rid of any of that...

There are lots of people out there that are interested in 'paleo/primal/whatever' but that have trouble finding or affording decent meat. It is not the worst problem to have, and it is often solvable when you make it a priority.

On the other hand "things with added crap" sounds scary. From what I can tell, many of the health problems people have today may start somewhere in that "added crap." We haven't really figured out what is causing the obesity, diabetes, and Alzheimer's epidemics, for example. Any number of factors are wrecking metabolism, and we sometimes attribute the problem to effects such as overeating which are not it at all.

The research is inconclusive and may remain that way because it is not in the interest of powerful corporations to be exposed for what they are, corporations that may be able to influence research funding among other things. But you need to eliminate non-food poisons sold as food from your diet, no matter how many millions or billions of people might be persuaded that it is OK!

Does it make a lot of sense to be trying to detox while still consuming quantities of these toxins? Start by eliminating toxins from your food, water (as best you can), and environment.

People tend to follow the "path of least resistance" and that makes it easy to entice them to eat poison by putting it in a box and labeling it "convenience food," especially when backed up by a trusted brand label (often a brand bought from an earlier company that now means absolutely nothing).

When I talk to people I know, some of them seem to realize that this stuff is bad for them, but they have busy days that involve work, children, and so on and they don't believe they can fit it all in and have any time left over for themselves if they don't eat poison (to phrase it plainly -- they would never say that). So they eat it. "Everybody does it."

So if you want to detox, start there. What specifically have you been buying that you yourself question, if I may ask and if you would be willing to say? I don't mean to single you out, but you brought up something that is interesting, and real-life examples would be helpful, I think. And I am sure you are not at all alone.
 
Horseofadifferentcolor said:
I am sorry I don't have a specific thread. When we detoxed we ate a lot of cilantro and took chlorella. Most benefit it seems was from Epsom salt. I do not think I have ever seen it listed as a detox but magnesium and sulfur do amazing things to get the bad metals out of your system.

I will look into the cilantro and chlorella. I have noticed that taking my magnesium supplement can cause a bit of detox reaction sometimes, so maybe upping my intake for a week or two might be helpful. And I just learned about MSM from my brother-in-law, so I will be trying that one out, too.

I've heard of bathing in epsom salt but are you talking about consuming it? And if so, do I just pick it up at the pharmacy and dissolve in water? Or is there a different format than the one you put in your bath?

So far, from the thread Bobo pointed out, giving blood seems to be the way to control high iron levels, but I will have my blood work done before I start doing anything to lower my iron. I still have a ways to go in that thread.

Thanks again.

I have to run to the butcher's before it closes, so I will respond to your post, Megan, as soon as I can. I agree, it could be helpful.
 
My usual daily diet is bacon and eggs in the morning, a pork chop and bone broth at noon and some kind of meat for supper. I add fat by eating spoonfuls of duck fat, and sometimes by cooking in it. I usually have a small portion of veggies with my supper to get a few carbs - usually green beans but it could be carrots, broccoli or cauliflower.

But it happens often enough that I am out of these things, or I don't have time to prepare anything, so I search for something that I can snack on to tide me over. I like to have a spoonful, or two, of organic peanut butter. Sometimes I'll grab a handful of grapes or blueberries or raspberries, which is not ideal. But the bad moments come when I decide to eat something like a store-bought sausage, pepperoni stick, or some ribs cooked in a store-bought BBQ sauce, or I really break down and have a spoonful of Nutella. Yeah, that's right...Nutella. I know there are other things that I can't think of at the moment.

I always check the ingredients, so I never get caught eating a sausage with wheat crumbs in it. But I sometimes ignore certain things in the ingredients after checking for gluten and the carb level, including, occasionally, the word modified. I know it's stupid but there it is.

I have also found myself in restaurants eating things with a sauce that I am not sure of the ingredients, and I have consumed some rice in one form or another at different moments. But that is rare. I know that means I am not entirely gluten free, unfortunately.

I have decided to buckle down on this diet and stop making exceptions, but I wanted to kick off this new effort by doing some cleansing. I am aware that some things I have consumed have some crap in them, but I don't eat them on a daily basis, or even a weekly basis, so I know I am not swimming in this stuff.

One thing that would really help me would be any kind of thing I could keep around the house to nibble on that is inexpensive and already prepared. Or better yet, an example of a comprehensive, daily diet that is simple, simple, simple. I don't care if I eat the same thing every day - variety is not important to me. I just want to make sure I'm getting the right nutrients, and that eating doesn't take up too much time.

I also have a FIR sauna that I have not been using lately, so that is going to change as well.
 
mocachapeau said:
...I've heard of bathing in epsom salt but are you talking about consuming it? And if so, do I just pick it up at the pharmacy and dissolve in water? Or is there a different format than the one you put in your bath?

The nice thing about Epsom salts is that you can bathe in them, drink them, or use them for fertilizer. All from the same bag or box.

I believe that, taken internally, they act as a laxative. That's speed detoxing, I guess.

Most people here that are taking magnesium supplements are, I would think, taking chelated forms such as magnesium citrate or glycinate or any number of others that I can't think of at the moment. Some forms, such as magnesium citrate, can double as a laxative if you take a high enough dose. I don't know about using magnesium for heavy metal detox. I don't think so, but I would have to look it up.
 
mocachapeau said:
...But it happens often enough that I am out of these things, or I don't have time to prepare anything, so I search for something that I can snack on to tide me over. I like to have a spoonful, or two, of organic peanut butter. Sometimes I'll grab a handful of grapes or blueberries or raspberries, which is not ideal. But the bad moments come when I decide to eat something like a store-bought sausage, pepperoni stick, or some ribs cooked in a store-bought BBQ sauce, or I really break down and have a spoonful of Nutella. Yeah, that's right...Nutella. I know there are other things that I can't think of at the moment.

Well shucks, I was hoping for a really good confession. This doesn't sound all that bad. :)

Nutella doesn't sound so great:
Nutella Ingredients said:
• Over 50 Hazelnuts per 13 oz. Jar
• Contains No Artificial Colors
• Contains No Artificial Preservatives

INGREDIENTS: SUGAR, PALM OIL, HAZELNUTS, COCOA, SKIM MILK, REDUCED MINERALS WHEY (MILK), LECITHIN AS EMULSIFIER (SOY), VANILLIN: AN ARTIFICIAL FLAVOR.

The sugar is bad news, as is the dairy. Palm oil is controversial (see for example _http://www.marksdailyapple.com/palm-oil-nutrition/#axzz2cHLvOF1B, especially the comments section). I don't use it but I'd rather see it than soybean oil. Whey is something I avoid but some primal/paleo types use it. Controversial, I guess. Not recommended here, I don't think. Lecithin is something we've batted around here, and is maybe OK. I'm not familiar with vanillin but "artificial flavor" turns me off right away. What actual food needs to be flavored artificially?

I don't think you'd die too soon from this, but sugar is one of the suspects in metabolic damage (high serum levels of glucose, anyway), and industrial dairy is nasty.

I have also seen scary things in the ingredient lists for "ribs." But the biggest problem there seems to be unbelievable amounts of sugar. Somehow, I am able to eat beef short ribs very regularly without any sugar at all (I need to finish up here and go to the store and buy some right now, along with my other food), but people think they need rib-flavored sugar. I really don't understand that.

I don't really believe that small amounts of sugar in small amounts of berries is a health problem. If you eat enough, no doubt it is going to affect ketone levels, but that's not the amount that I mean. Grapes might be more of a problem, but still I haven't seen any evidence that the occasional grape is going to do you in. I just had a few hand-picked blackberries today. They're not organic, but the growers use only organic pest controls.

Of course if you don't buy organic you're apt to be getting pesticides as well (I've read that strawberries are the worst for that), and that's another matter.

I always check the ingredients, so I never get caught eating a sausage with wheat crumbs in it. But I sometimes ignore certain things in the ingredients after checking for gluten and the carb level, including, occasionally, the word modified. I know it's stupid but there it is.

I have been avoiding sausage, even when I am sure what is in it, because of the sugar content. The amount is actually pretty low, but when you have GI issues it can be better to avoid it altogether. Otherwise I have not seen any sign that in those amounts the sugar has any significant effect on blood glucose or ketone levels. This is high-quality organic sausage, though.

"Modified" is indeed scary. You don't happen to remember what was modified, do you?

I have also found myself in restaurants eating things with a sauce that I am not sure of the ingredients, and I have consumed some rice in one form or another at different moments. But that is rare. I know that means I am not entirely gluten free, unfortunately.
...

I once found myself in the bathroom trying to vomit while having diarrhea, a few days after eating something that contained a mystery sauce. It waited until it hit my colon, apparently. Now I find out what's in it or I don't eat it. Of course restaurants don't necessarily know -- they are sometimes serving processed food out of a package!

I don't know that everybody is going to react acutely to small amounts of gluten; somehow I doubt it. I do think that everybody can benefit from avoiding it, and I know that it can be hard to tell if damage is being done -- the reactions can be "silent" to a degree, and especially in the earlier stages of disease. I used to have visible celiac symptoms, however, and I just don't go near the stuff any more. If you think you are "safe" with small amounts, occasionally, it is still a gamble.

My guess is that if you avoid gluten, are not acutely reactive, and now and then accidentally are exposed to it, it's much like anything else your body has to fend off. But if it's not accidental and it happens repeatedly, you might want to take a closer look at your own behavior.
 
Thanks for your replies Megan. You've been helpful.

Megan said:
"Modified" is indeed scary. You don't happen to remember what was modified, do you?

I think there has been modified corn starch, which I'm aware is a killer. But I really mean it, that I have ignored a lot of those ingredients, so I couldn't tell you what others I've consumed. I check for gluten and carbs because they are the ones that will affect me the most, and then I disregard the rest. Dumb, I know, but I do it in situations where I feel I don't have much choice, and I'm hungry.

I found a bottle of BBQ sauce in the fridge: water, sugar/glucose-fructose, vinegar, modified corn starch, salt, tomato paste, spices and seasonings, canola oil, cooking molasses, natural flavour, mustard, colour, guar gum (thickener). Every other sauce on the shelf was made with malt vinegar - barley - so I used this one. Given the description, I guess the vinegar might actually be malt vinegar. 10g of carbs for every 2 table spoons.

There have been other products like this one, maybe worse ones. I don't know. All I know is I am renewing my efforts to avoid this stuff, and I want to try and eliminate as much as I can from my system. I know I haven't been TOO horrible in my "sins" but it's been almost a year since I became pretty lax about these things so it might have been long enough for me to put a stop to it.

I guess I associate the carb index with the quantity of sugar, so if I think I'm staying below 50-60g of carbs in a day I am not worrying about the sugar in the ingredients. Maybe I should be?
 
Mocachapeau, one of the more promising detox agents seems to be something called EDTA. Have you had the chance to read about it? There are some posts about it in the Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions and Life Without Bread threads. In the latter, Laura posted a short summary.

There are several books on EDTA chelation, the one that I've read is called "Detox with Oral Chelation: Protecting Yourself from Lead, Mercury, & Other Environmental Toxins" by Garry Gordon. This book was pretty okay, but it was hard to find the actual practical advice on how to do the EDTA oral chelation (dosage etc). Perhaps there's some other book that someone could recommend?

Paperback: _http://amzn.com/1890572209
Kindle: _http://amzn.com/B0044KLQKA

The EDTA capsules I've been using:

_http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-EDTA-Heavy-Metal-Detoxification-240-Capsules/24630

And if you want to boost your detoxing, there's always the ol' coffee enema. :cool2:
 
Search for DMSA and EDTA in the forum. Both are heavy metal detox agents. I'm not too sure that cilantro, chlorella or epsom salts are effective for these toxins though some people claim they are.
 
Also if you're worried about the financial cost of these compounds, ebay can be a good place to get them for a reasonable price.

I did a search on the Canadian site, and found this product. It looks like a pretty good all-in-one detox formula:
_http://www.ebay.ca/itm/DMSA-EDTA-Chelation-Adjunct-Alternative-to-Detoxamin-or-IV-Chelation-Therapy-/281088019370?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417226cbaa
 
Aragorn said:
Mocachapeau, one of the more promising detox agents seems to be something called EDTA. Have you had the chance to read about it? There are some posts about it in the Hemochromatosis and Autoimmune Conditions and Life Without Bread threads. In the latter, Laura posted a short summary.

There are several books on EDTA chelation, the one that I've read is called "Detox with Oral Chelation: Protecting Yourself from Lead, Mercury, & Other Environmental Toxins" by Garry Gordon. This book was pretty okay, but it was hard to find the actual practical advice on how to do the EDTA oral chelation (dosage etc). Perhaps there's some other book that someone could recommend?

Paperback: _http://amzn.com/1890572209
Kindle: _http://amzn.com/B0044KLQKA

The EDTA capsules I've been using:

_http://www.iherb.com/Source-Naturals-EDTA-Heavy-Metal-Detoxification-240-Capsules/24630

And if you want to boost your detoxing, there's always the ol' coffee enema. :cool2:

Laura said:
Search for DMSA and EDTA in the forum. Both are heavy metal detox agents. I'm not too sure that cilantro, chlorella or epsom salts are effective for these toxins though some people claim they are.

I've started reading the hemochromatosis thread and seen the DMSA and EDTA mentioned, so I will keep going on that one. And if I feel I need more info I'll look into one of the books. I've never done the coffee enema, although it sounds like a lot of fun...

nicklebleu said:
And don't forget EE - I think that this is an essential part of detoxing ...

Unfortunately, I have been neglecting that as well. Other than some occasional pipe breathing, and some regular POTS reciting at bedtime, my performance in that area has been unimpressive. It is another thing in which I am determined to apply a renewed effort.

Carlise said:
Also if you're worried about the financial cost of these compounds, ebay can be a good place to get them for a reasonable price.

I did a search on the Canadian site, and found this product. It looks like a pretty good all-in-one detox formula:
_http://www.ebay.ca/itm/DMSA-EDTA-Chelation-Adjunct-Alternative-to-Detoxamin-or-IV-Chelation-Therapy-/281088019370?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item417226cbaa

I will check this out immediately.

Thanks everyone. You've been very helpful, again.
 
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