Detox Question

[Horseofadifferentcolor]

Search for DMSA and EDTA in the forum. Both are heavy metal detox agents. I'm not too sure that cilantro, chlorella or epsom salts are effective for these toxins though some people claim they are.

http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins-and-minerals/magnificent-magnesium
MAGNESIUM IS A POTENT DETOXIFIER

Magnesium is utilized by the body for all sorts of detoxification pathways and is necessary for the neutralization of toxins, overly acidic conditions that arise in the body, and for protection from heavy metals. It plays a vital role in protecting us from the onslaught of man-made chemicals all around us. Glutathione, an antioxidant normally produced by the body and a detoxifier of mercury, lead and arsenic among others, requires magnesium for its synthesis. According to Mark Sircus, in Transdermal Magnesium Therapy, a deficiency of magnesium increases free radical generation in the body and “causes glutathione loss, which is not affordable because glutathione helps to defend the body against damage from cigarette smoking, exposure to radiation, cancer chemotherapy, and toxins such as alcohol and just about everything else.”

http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2013/01/28/chlorella-for-mercury-poisoning.aspx

Cilantro can be used as a synergetic aid along with chlorella. It's particularly useful to take when consuming seafood.

Chlorella's effectiveness was demonstrated in a study last year2, where mice given chlorella along with methylmercury excreted approximately twice the amount of methylmercury in their urine and feces, compared to mice not treated with chlorella.

 

[mcb]

...I've started reading the hemochromatosis thread and seen the DMSA and EDTA mentioned, so I will keep going on that one. And if I feel I need more info I'll look into one of the books. I've never done the coffee enema, although it sounds like a lot of fun...

I am glad DMSA and EDTA are being included. They really belong in any "detox" thread, and I had omitted them only because it's something I am still not doing. (I have a lot of trouble with day-to-day health ups and downs, and it is *very* hard to tell if any one thing is helping or hurting. Of course I may just have to try it and see what happens, although it could be a problem while working with conventional MDs at the same time.)

It's been a few years now, but it seems like way back in the DMSA discussion there was a recommendation to remove mercury fillings first. I am down one filling (replaced with a different material), with maybe 3 to go. I don't know if that is still recommended or not, and I suppose it might not apply to using EDTA.

 

[mcb]

...
http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins-and-minerals/magnificent-magnesium
MAGNESIUM IS A POTENT DETOXIFIER
...

I have learned to be cautious when reading information from WAPF. In this instance I had to read past 22 paragraphs before I even came to this section. And then I didn't really encounter any objective support for the claim. Glutathione is indeed a potent detoxifier, as detailed by Dr. Sidney Baker in Detoxification and Healing, but the fact that magnesium is required in the synthesis pathway for glutathione does not make magnesium "a potent detoxifier." It makes it a necessary substrate. Good tissue magnesium levels are also undoubtedly an important preventative, but that also does not make it a "detoxifier." So why not just tell the truth in the section heading?

My main beef with WAPF is the insistence that "grains are good for you" if prepared the right way and if you can't detect a bad reaction. As a probable celiac recoverer myself (I never had it tested), I know that that kind of advice can be dangerous, and I have noticed in presentations from several WAPF chapter leaders that they occasionally praise grains in one breath while in the next describing symptoms of grain intolerance as "normal" that they are unable to see because of their beliefs.

That aside, some of the WAPFers do provide very useful information, and I would not label them as a disinfo source, at least not as a paid, intentional one. But caution is in order.

(Link to Dr. Mercola Chlorella article)

A similar caution may apply with Dr. Mercola. I really appreciate the investigative work that he does, but I am very cautious about his specific health advice. I am not familiar with the details of chlorella (there is information here in the forum, and the C's have even mentioned it), but I have seen cautions about the use of cilantro (mentioned in the article), which I have actually tried myself. I did not take a "cilantro supplement," but rather I incorporated lots of the actual cooked green leafy into my breakfast for a period of months, and the results were unclear but my appetite eventually rejected it (I developed a dislike for the scent). The apparent risk is that while it is a known chelator, nobody seems to know exactly what it chelates and there is the distinct possibility that it might be doing as much harm as good (with the usual qualification that it may vary with the individual).

 

[mocachapeau]

It's been a few years now, but it seems like way back in the DMSA discussion there was a recommendation to remove mercury fillings first. I am down one filling (replaced with a different material), with maybe 3 to go. I don't know if that is still recommended or not, and I suppose it might not apply to using EDTA.

I only got my first filling at the age of 41, two years ago, so I don't need to worry about that. I'm going to get right to the DMSA.

Magnesium is already a regular part of my daily supplements, and my level for it last time I had blood work done was a little above normal. I'm going to stick with it. As I said earlier, it can kick start a bit of a flushing at times, so I do get the impression it is acting as a detox agent in some way. What it is actually flushing out, I'm not sure. But if it's flushing, it's getting rid of something, and I'm all for that.

I'm still going to refrain from the coffee enema for the time being.

 

[mcb]

Thanks for your replies Megan. You've been helpful.

"Modified" is indeed scary. You don't happen to remember what was modified, do you?

I think there has been modified corn starch, which I'm aware is a killer. But I really mean it, that I have ignored a lot of those ingredients, so I couldn't tell you what others I've consumed. I check for gluten and carbs because they are the ones that will affect me the most, and then I disregard the rest. Dumb, I know, but I do it in situations where I feel I don't have much choice, and I'm hungry.

My impression is that you have been doing pretty well. My point of reference is other people I know in person that, most often, are scarcely aware that ingredient labels exist, let alone what they mean. Or they are like I was not too many years ago, looking at the nutritional labeling to find the calories and percentage of saturated fat and ignoring the rest of the label (all the while with a funny feeling that I might have been missing something important).

I found a bottle of BBQ sauce in the fridge: water, sugar/glucose-fructose, vinegar, modified corn starch, salt, tomato paste, spices and seasonings, canola oil, cooking molasses, natural flavour, mustard, colour, guar gum (thickener). Every other sauce on the shelf was made with malt vinegar - barley - so I used this one. Given the description, I guess the vinegar might actually be malt vinegar. 10g of carbs for every 2 table spoons.

The red flag there for me is canola oil. At least it's not the main ingredient. But it is terrible, toxic stuff sold as "health food," and even worse if it's not cold/expeller pressed. Canola is big business, however, and the disinfo circulating on the Web is so thick you can cut it. The "pro" sites are obvious, but the "con" sites are often twisted too. Somebody wants you to be confused about it, and to give up and take the path of least resistance (i.e. "do what everybody else does").

A couple of sources that I use are chriskresser.com and drcate.com. Chris is not unequivocally against canola in any form under any condition, from what I can tell (though he would reject this particular label of yours), but he's like that and the research no doubt supports his position, which he would no doubt change in the face of contrary evidence. (I still err on the side of caution.) Dr. Cate seems unequivocal, and spells out the details in her book Deep Nutrition. For example...

...Canola oil degrades so rapidly that a testing company, needing to find the purest canola oil to use as a standard against which other oils could be compared, couldn’t locate any canola oil even from pharmaceutical-grade manufacturers with a trans fat content lower than 1.2 percent...

Shanahan MD, Catherine (2011-04-22). Deep Nutrition: Why Your Genes Need Traditional Food (Kindle Locations 2801-2803). Big Box Books. Kindle Edition.

It probably sounds by now like I am obsessing about this, but I do believe it is a much bigger issue than mercury fillings. But this is a toxicity issue that sneaks right past a lot of people, and I fully expect it to be connected with the widespread plague of metabolic dysfunction we are seeing, if the truth ever

There have been other products like this one, maybe worse ones. I don't know. All I know is I am renewing my efforts to avoid this stuff, and I want to try and eliminate as much as I can from my system. I know I haven't been TOO horrible in my "sins" but it's been almost a year since I became pretty lax about these things so it might have been long enough for me to put a stop to it.

Knowledge protects. Feeling bad about past choices isn't so helpful. Good lessons, though.

I guess I associate the carb index with the quantity of sugar, so if I think I'm staying below 50-60g of carbs in a day I am not worrying about the sugar in the ingredients. Maybe I should be?

Let me think about that statement. I've had a minor "situation" come up at home and I need to go see to it. I'll be back. [Read between the lines: I've not gone over this post for stupid mistakes; apologies if found.]

 

[Horseofadifferentcolor]

...
http://www.westonaprice.org/vitamins-and-minerals/magnificent-magnesium
MAGNESIUM IS A POTENT DETOXIFIER
...

I have learned to be cautious when reading information from WAPF. In this instance I had to read past 22 paragraphs before I even came to this section. And then I didn't really encounter any objective support for the claim. Glutathione is indeed a potent detoxifier, as detailed by Dr. Sidney Baker in Detoxification and Healing, but the fact that magnesium is required in the synthesis pathway for glutathione does not make magnesium "a potent detoxifier." It makes it a necessary substrate. Good tissue magnesium levels are also undoubtedly an important preventative, but that also does not make it a "detoxifier." So why not just tell the truth in the section heading?

My main beef with WAPF is the insistence that "grains are good for you" if prepared the right way and if you can't detect a bad reaction. As a probable celiac recoverer myself (I never had it tested), I know that that kind of advice can be dangerous, and I have noticed in presentations from several WAPF chapter leaders that they occasionally praise grains in one breath while in the next describing symptoms of grain intolerance as "normal" that they are unable to see because of their beliefs.

That aside, some of the WAPFers do provide very useful information, and I would not label them as a disinfo source, at least not as a paid, intentional one. But caution is in order.

(Link to Dr. Mercola Chlorella article)

A similar caution may apply with Dr. Mercola. I really appreciate the investigative work that he does, but I am very cautious about his specific health advice. I am not familiar with the details of chlorella (there is information here in the forum, and the C's have even mentioned it), but I have seen cautions about the use of cilantro (mentioned in the article), which I have actually tried myself. I did not take a "cilantro supplement," but rather I incorporated lots of the actual cooked green leafy into my breakfast for a period of months, and the results were unclear but my appetite eventually rejected it (I developed a dislike for the scent). The apparent risk is that while it is a known chelator, nobody seems to know exactly what it chelates and there is the distinct possibility that it might be doing as much harm as good (with the usual qualification that it may vary with the individual).

Yes, I agree with you on your points above about the websites. I only chose those sites because that is what google pulled for me on a search. I have people ask me often where to read health info at and these are some of the safer ones in my opinion. I would love to send them all here but that is just not possible with most people.
We grow our own cilantro and it reseeds its self very easy, so in the spring we have lots of it. At the start of spring the lime sweet smell is just wonderful but after a few weeks I can't stand it anymore. So maybe their is something to that.

 

[astrozombie]

I have found that cilantro in my bone broth makes it more palatable but I only use about six small leaves. I was raised eating cilantro both uncooked and cooked with dishes so I have a slight love of this devil in disguise.

It can be beneficial in moderation but overall, there's a good reason why most people tend to reject it.

By the way Megan, I just love your avatar. I can't help but think that if your poor cat goes any higher, that it may end up finding fifth density sooner than third if it has any mishap. :(

 

[mcb]

...By the way Megan, I just love your avatar. I can't help but think that if your poor cat goes any higher, that it may end up finding fifth density sooner than third if it has any mishap. :(

I can't say I had consciously thought of it that way, although when I was taking the photo I had mental images of having to drop the camera and trying to catch Bella in mid air. She is an exquisitely poised feline, usually, but up in a tree she is a stumblebum. At least she can get down by herself, unlike Cassie (who has to be lifted out with much screaming and tearing of (my) flesh).

You have definitely caught the spirit of what my avatar was meant to convey. :)

 

[mcb]

...I'm still going to refrain from the coffee enema for the time being.

I've been refraining from it for a long time. Who knows -- maybe that is the one thing I overlooked. But I kind of doubt it.

 

[mcb]

...I guess I associate the carb index with the quantity of sugar, so if I think I'm staying below 50-60g of carbs in a day I am not worrying about the sugar in the ingredients. Maybe I should be?

OK, "situation" resolved (it had to do with somebody possibly needing a ride home after a medical test, after their original ride was found to be unavailable after having a heart attack and ending up in the hospital -- oh my).

I guess I don't quite understand your comment. By "carb index" do you mean the net carbs calculated from the label (total carbs minus total fiber)? That will indeed give you a rough estimate of sugar content, including starch that converts easily to sugar. It seems like it is the non-sugar ingredients that aren't receiving all the attention they deserve.

50-60 g/d of net carbs is, for many people, mildly ketogenic. I'm not sure it has much directly to do with detoxing, but even at that level it can do wonders for blood sugar issues and weight control (not so much weight loss), as well as contributing to preventing common degenerative diseases. The other ingredients on the label can have much to do with "toxing," so to speak, and eliminating products containing toxic ingredients is a vital part of detoxing, I do believe.

 

[Resistense]

You could also search the forum for info on iodine. It can help you displace/excrete other unwanted halogens (fluorine, bromine, chlorine), has broad antibiotic effects, and can help thyroid/endocrine function and metabolic rate (amongst other things). Seems like a good addition to generally support detoxing.

 

[mocachapeau]

I guess I don't quite understand your comment. By "carb index" do you mean the net carbs calculated from the label (total carbs minus total fiber)? That will indeed give you a rough estimate of sugar content, including starch that converts easily to sugar. It seems like it is the non-sugar ingredients that aren't receiving all the attention they deserve.

50-60 g/d of net carbs is, for many people, mildly ketogenic. I'm not sure it has much directly to do with detoxing, but even at that level it can do wonders for blood sugar issues and weight control (not so much weight loss), as well as contributing to preventing common degenerative diseases. The other ingredients on the label can have much to do with "toxing," so to speak, and eliminating products containing toxic ingredients is a vital part of detoxing, I do believe.

50-60g of carbs is what I figure I should not surpass if I'm eating something dumb like Nutella. But on most days I don't think I go past 20-25g. The net carbs was what I was referring to, but I realize that I am staying in ketosis but harming myself in other ways by eating chemical crap. I pretty much knew that all along, but I was telling myself that it's not so bad because I am not eating these things in large quantities. But now I am asking myself, why eat them at all? I wasn't when I started this diet so let's get back to it!! NO EXCEPTIONS!!

I'm going to get on the detox as soon as the DMSA/EDTA product arrives.

And I will look into the iodine, as well. Thanks for the tip, Resistence. And thank you for your help, Megan.

 

[SeekinTruth]

Magnesium should help with the detox process in that once the toxins get mobilized, the bodies need for magnesium in so many metabolic processes would insure the toxins are excreted. In the case of a magnesium deficiency (which doesn't sound like your case) it could be a problem where detoxing will not be as effective or toxins will be mobilized but not be able to be excreted quickly. FWIW.