Discovering the ease in which many Fall

[SadEyes]

For the past few months, I have felt an inner turmoil of sorts. After months of negative feelings, not knowing what I should do in terms of my life (especially my marriage), I have found that while I have been discovering and combating buffers and programs, that I have also created many new ones. I've buried them deeply at that. In turn, this has affected my wife and step son, both of which are feeling my new inner predator. Neither of them are engaged in the Work, they are far from it and comfortably so. After a talk with my wife at work today, she broke down, unsure of what's going on in my head or what I'm going to do. I hadn't even noticed how bad I had gotten until today.

Just sitting down and thinking about the whole situation, I've discovered that I have developed a disdain for people who haven't or aren't seeking self improvement my way. I've discovered that I've developed an attitude that seems to say "you're not in the Work so you're not as good as me". I have begun to turn my nose up at those very people I wish to help. Completely forgetting everything about True Compassion and Service to Others, I feel that I've become a STS monster; one that dislikes anyone that isn't doing what I'm doing. I can honestly say that I am disgusted with these revelations, and now I am beginning to understand what Boris Mouravieff meant when he said that once a person crosses a certain threshold, they have two options, succeed and reach Second Birth, or Fall. Had we not have had this conversation just a few hours ago, I would have still cast blame on everyone but myself, walked away from this whole situation and fallen deeper into my new illusion.

I became cocky, thinking I was more "spiritually" advanced than I was, and that was my biggest enemy. I have so, so much work to do. Why didn't anyone warn me this wasn't going to be easy??? (<--sarcasm)

Thanks for reading my rant...now taking advice or kicks in the arse...

 

[ignis.intimus]

I have found that while I have been discovering and combating buffers and programs, that I have also created many new ones. I've buried them deeply at that. In turn, this has affected my wife and step son, both of which are feeling my new inner predator.

It's good that you shared this, so that you can put it in front of your face so to speak. I think that the best solution to preventing the creation of further buffers like that is to network more on the forum, and discuss openly how you are really perceiving things. You have to be able to distance yourself from yourself to do this, I think. Recognize this is how my predator, or one of my "I"s perceives this situation and discuss it from that standpoint.

I wonder though if it is really the creation of new buffers in this case, or if existing ones are going into overdrive. Were there other ways before you would look down upon people, or distance yourself from them in a self-righteous fashion? Perhaps the new information you are operating on, and the fear of the predator being exposed, has just made that part of you more apparent now. I don't know, just a thought.

 

[mcb]

My first thought is "slow down" and give yourself time to learn and adapt. It sounds to me like you aren't seeing your behavior as others do, and if you persist then what follows could be quite painful. I suspect that there is no "new predator" here; just the old one exploring a new venue. Learn about it and don't feed it.

(P.S. This is bringing things up for me from my own much earlier pre-forum experiences. I apologize if I am coming across too strongly, or not strongly enough.)

 

[Carl]

For the past few months, I have felt an inner turmoil of sorts. After months of negative feelings, not knowing what I should do in terms of my life (especially my marriage), I have found that while I have been discovering and combating buffers and programs, that I have also created many new ones. I've buried them deeply at that. In turn, this has affected my wife and step son, both of which are feeling my new inner predator. Neither of them are engaged in the Work, they are far from it and comfortably so. After a talk with my wife at work today, she broke down, unsure of what's going on in my head or what I'm going to do. I hadn't even noticed how bad I had gotten until today.

Just sitting down and thinking about the whole situation, I've discovered that I have developed a disdain for people who haven't or aren't seeking self improvement my way. I've discovered that I've developed an attitude that seems to say "you're not in the Work so you're not as good as me". I have begun to turn my nose up at those very people I wish to help. Completely forgetting everything about True Compassion and Service to Others, I feel that I've become a STS monster; one that dislikes anyone that isn't doing what I'm doing. I can honestly say that I am disgusted with these revelations, and now I am beginning to understand what Boris Mouravieff meant when he said that once a person crosses a certain threshold, they have two options, succeed and reach Second Birth, or Fall. Had we not have had this conversation just a few hours ago, I would have still cast blame on everyone but myself, walked away from this whole situation and fallen deeper into my new illusion.

I became cocky, thinking I was more "spiritually" advanced than I was, and that was my biggest enemy. I have so, so much work to do. Why didn't anyone warn me this wasn't going to be easy??? (<--sarcasm)

Thanks for reading my rant...now taking advice or kicks in the arse...

First of all, you're not evil or a monster, you just fell into a common trap, and the fact that you are "disgusted" shows that you can see yourself to some extent, and bounce back from this. Your wife breaking down is a huge sign that you've not been considering her or your step son, and I suspect there were many little signs before this that you ignored or missed. It's in watching and listening to these little signs that we can see where we're going wrong, before it's too late.

Have you tried to just listen to people more, your family, your friends, colleagues? Talk about what they want to talk about, try to put yourself in their shoes both mentally and emotionally? The saying "wise as serpents, gentle as doves" should always apply, because people are still real people with real feelings, and they're all just trying to make it through life in whatever way they can.

It's good to remind yourself every day that just because you happened to stumble across some knowledge, it doesn't mean you're special, and certainly doesn't mean you're STO.

 

[Tigersoap]

Just sitting down and thinking about the whole situation, I've discovered that I have developed a disdain for people who haven't or aren't seeking self improvement my way. I've discovered that I've developed an attitude that seems to say "you're not in the Work so you're not as good as me". I

Hello SadEyes,

That's a tough situation but you might see as an opportunity to really question why you may behave that way with those around you and it's good that you realized this.

Maybe you might be interested to learn more about external considering and strategic enclosure, it's not always easy but if you're involved with the Work it becomes your responsibility to try making things go smoother for your wife and your step son.


Hope this helps a bit ;)

 

[Eongar]

Just sitting down and thinking about the whole situation, I've discovered that I have developed a disdain for people who haven't or aren't seeking self improvement my way. I've discovered that I've developed an attitude that seems to say "you're not in the Work so you're not as good as me". I

Hello SadEyes,

That's a tough situation but you might see as an opportunity to really question why you may behave that way with those around you and it's good that you realized this.

Maybe you might be interested to learn more about external considering and strategic enclosure, it's not always easy but if you're involved with the Work it becomes your responsibility to try making things go smoother for your wife and your step son.


Hope this helps a bit ;)

As stated Tigersoap present the idea and try practicing external considering. Watch your words, you realize that your programs act ,thus you happen then as we all do, we have programs, right? What I mean is that when yourself you notice your programs, you're seeing what happens to everyone. When we understand that we begin to naturally empathize with others, although not always easy, but understanding this point helps to respect the free will of others.

Practices EE?

 

[Joe]

Just sitting down and thinking about the whole situation, I've discovered that I have developed a disdain for people who haven't or aren't seeking self improvement my way. I've discovered that I've developed an attitude that seems to say "you're not in the Work so you're not as good as me". I have begun to turn my nose up at those very people I wish to help. Completely forgetting everything about True Compassion and Service to Others, I feel that I've become a STS monster; one that dislikes anyone that isn't doing what I'm doing. I can honestly say that I am disgusted with these revelations, and now I am beginning to understand what Boris Mouravieff meant when he said that once a person crosses a certain threshold, they have two options, succeed and reach Second Birth, or Fall. Had we not have had this conversation just a few hours ago, I would have still cast blame on everyone but myself, walked away from this whole situation and fallen deeper into my new illusion.

Hi Sadeyes, one thing you might want to try and keep in mind is that a truly 'spiritual' person would, by definition, have to have first mastered the art of being able to be caring and compassionate towards their fellow human beings (and all beings), albeit in an intelligent way i.e. not getting pulled into pity traps or fooled by manipulation. It's also useful to keep in mind something the C's once said, having lots of knowledge (in the esoteric sense) doesn't mean that a person is "good". Being "good" or "bad" seems to be a separate issue, but to be truly one or the other requires Knowledge.

 

[EmeraldHope]

Just sitting down and thinking about the whole situation, I've discovered that I have developed a disdain for people who haven't or aren't seeking self improvement my way. I've discovered that I've developed an attitude that seems to say "you're not in the Work so you're not as good as me". I have begun to turn my nose up at those very people I wish to help. Completely forgetting everything about True Compassion and Service to Others, I feel that I've become a STS monster; one that dislikes anyone that isn't doing what I'm doing. I can honestly say that I am disgusted with these revelations, and now I am beginning to understand what Boris Mouravieff meant when he said that once a person crosses a certain threshold, they have two options, succeed and reach Second Birth, or Fall. Had we not have had this conversation just a few hours ago, I would have still cast blame on everyone but myself, walked away from this whole situation and fallen deeper into my new illusion.

I became cocky, thinking I was more "spiritually" advanced than I was, and that was my biggest enemy. I have so, so much work to do. Why didn't anyone warn me this wasn't going to be easy??? (<--sarcasm)

Thanks for reading my rant...now taking advice or kicks in the arse...

Well, if you can try to view everything as a spectrum, or a staircase, with everyone on the planet on different steps, it helps I think. How horrible would it have been for Laura, Ark, and the other forum members who excel at the work to have thought like this? How much help would we ignorant plebs have gotten? And do not forget, one should not try to do anything unless the other is really asking. That takes lots of work to differentiate. And, as everyone is constantly learning, it is constantly changing. It reminds me of the adage that " you cannot step into the same stream twice".

One can learn something from potentially everyone, if one keeps their eyes and ears open- think of all that was learned from pathologicals, who most certainly are not in the work. Strategic enclosure is also very helpful, especially in situations where it is obvious that the other person cannot "receive" what you may like to "give" and vice versa. It is a very hard lesson indeed to accept someone as they are completely with no illusion that they may change in any way that you may wish them to. In learning to do that, there are many lessons in patience, acceptance, and true compassion.

All is a learning curve though. As the Oracle said in the Matrix- "We can never see past the choices we do not understand' . Sometimes , it takes lots of slow and steady knowledge acquisition before you can even see the real choices.

 

[Scribblenauts]

Hi Daenerys,

OK, let's rant together here :D, I had the same issue (sort of still having.. I may say)
the problem I'm facing is some people (specially the ones I care about most) have turned into zombie slaves of some evil entity, they are all becoming like possessed by the same entity, it's like that entity is chasing me in them saying : "ha ha you are not finished with me yet"

they've changed, they became a copy of each other, they act, respond and behave now in the same manner (all of them, it's like they are not them anymore) which to some extent tend to serve the objectives of that entity, unlike other people who seem perfectly normal, anyway explaining things like that to them trying to help them understand the situation was impossible, so I too disdained them and kept my distance from them, and from all others who might express such symptoms of possession, to protect myself, not from them but from that boring silly blood thirsty entity

but with time things turned around and the same people I disdained, I now pity, for not being able to help them understand or be like me or walk the way with me (thinking that turning them into me will remove them from the controls of such entity)
then again with time I realized that everything is meant to be as it is meant to be, not everyone is called and among those who are called not everyone is chosen.. and so on, then I also realized that it will end exactly as in the movie matrix revolutions

in fact, and don't get me wrong here, no body really cares about you or your views at things, no body is really interested in your ways, they can't and they won't, and they even don't need to, it is meant to be that way, you have to understand that everyone has a way to walk but just because it's not your way doesn't mean they are astray, you have your way and you must walk it because no one will walk it for you

"People take different roads seeking fulfillment and happiness. Just because they’re not on your road doesn’t mean they’ve gotten lost." ~ Dalai Lama XIV
and roads may meet, but that doesn't mean they have to continue together

in my opinion you really help people by letting them be what they are meant to be, i.e to be able to find out what they are meant to be and do, and to point them to that direction, this of course requires you to understand that yourself first, to know yourself, and to understand and know what is it that you are supposed to do with that self, and then try to apply it to yourself, if it worked out for you, then try to apply it to others, and you know it worked for them when you find it returns to you.

one last thing to mention here, as long as you are judging, as long as you are not becoming like a baby observing.. analyzing.. categorizing.. smiling to all of them.. hungry to communicate with all... etc you haven't get rid of your programs, you haven't been born again yet, and this I feel fits here "All I know, is that I know nothing." ~ Socrates

 

[EmeraldHope]

OK, let's rant together here :D , I had the same issue (sort of still having.. I may say)
the problem I'm facing is some people (specially the ones I care about most) have turned into zombie slaves of some evil entity, they are all becoming like possessed by the same entity, it's like that entity is chasing me in them saying : "ha ha you are not finished with me yet"

I do not wish to rant. How is your diet?

they've changed, they became a copy of each other, they act, respond and behave now in the same manner (all of them, it's like they are not them anymore) which to some extent tend to serve the objectives of that entity, unlike other people who seem perfectly normal, anyway explaining things like that to them trying to help them understand the situation was impossible, so I too disdained them and kept my distance from them, and from all others who might express such symptoms of possession, to protect myself, not from them but from that boring silly blood thirsty entity

Sounds like garden variety ponerogenesis, and a bit of a vivid imagination or paranoia. Again, how is your diet? Also, Did anyone ask for you to explain things to them, or did you decide that they needed to understand things your way?

but with time things turned around and the same people I disdained, I now pity, for not being able to help them understand or be like me or walk the way with me (thinking that turning them into me will remove them from the controls of such entity)
then again with time I realized that everything is meant to be as it is meant to be, not everyone is called and among those who are called not everyone is chosen.. and so on, then I also realized that it will end exactly as in the movie matrix revolutions

Pity those who pity, as the C's would say. as that would make you a prime candidate for pathological manipulation. Everything is in a state of flux, evolving further into spirit or devolving further into matter, exactly as it should be.

in fact, and don't get me wrong here, no body really cares about you or your views at things, no body is really interested in your ways, they can't and they won't, and they even don't need to, it is meant to be that way, you have to understand that everyone has a way to walk but just because it's not your way doesn't mean they are astray, you have your way and you must walk it because no one will walk it for you

Hmm. Well, it really is at the root either becoming more objective or more subjective, is it not?

in my opinion you really help people by letting them be what they are meant to be, i.e to be able to find out what they are meant to be and do, and to point them to that direction, this of course requires you to understand that yourself first, to know yourself, and to understand and know what is it that you are supposed to do with that self, and then try to apply it to yourself, if it worked out for you, then try to apply it to others, and you know it worked for them when you find it returns to you.

How can you ever determine what someone else is meant to be? How can you know the level of another?

one last thing to mention here, as long as you are judging, as long as you are not becoming like a baby observing.. analyzing.. categorizing.. smiling to all of them.. hungry to communicate with all... etc you haven't get rid of your programs, you haven't been born again yet, and this I feel fits here "All I know, is that I know nothing." ~ Socrates

Can you please clarify this part a little further?

 

[obyvatel]

one last thing to mention here, as long as you are judging, as long as you are not becoming like a baby observing.. analyzing.. categorizing.. smiling to all of them.. hungry to communicate with all... etc you haven't get rid of your programs, you haven't been born again yet,

Hi Scribblenauts,
That approach is quite dangerous if one is dealing with a psychopath or someone with severe pathology. You mentioned you are reading the Wave series and Secret History of the World in another thread. After completing these books, you may have a different understanding on these issues.

[quote author=Scribblenauts]
and this I feel fits here "All I know, is that I know nothing." ~ Socrates
[/quote]

From what is historically known, Socrates used a particular style of dialogue to interact with others, masterfully using arguments and the art of rational persuasion to respond to the specific person and situation he was encountering . So using his quotes without having a reference to the context in which it was used could be misleading in my opinion.

 

[mada85]

I have found that while I have been discovering and combating buffers and programs, that I have also created many new ones. I've buried them deeply at that. In turn, this has affected my wife and step son, both of which are feeling my new inner predator.

This is a good step in the right direction, or so it seems to me. The things about ourselves that are difficult to acknowledge are those that go against our self-image, but are usually the things we most need to see.

I agree with others here that this is probably not new per se, but rather a pre-existing tendency that lay dormant until you gave it something to 'get its teeth into'. It's also a quite common reaction on beginning Work or finding new knowledge that is outside the mainstream. I had this reaction myself for a time, with its sibling, the messiah complex - wanting to 'convert' everyone around me to my new way of thinking. Careful observation of others' reactions showed me how wrong I was. Very very few people are really interested in this kind of knowledge.

I think it would be wise to learn all you can about strategic enclosure and external consideration, and put it into practice. Gurdjieff describes the practice of external consideration as doing that which makes life easy for others, which of course makes it easy for oneself. Further down the line, you may be asked about what you did to make such a beneficial change. If and when you are asked, then you can speak.

the problem I'm facing is some people (specially the ones I care about most) have turned into zombie slaves of some evil entity, they are all becoming like possessed by the same entity, it's like that entity is chasing me in them saying : "ha ha you are not finished with me yet"

they've changed, they became a copy of each other, they act, respond and behave now in the same manner (all of them, it's like they are not them anymore) which to some extent tend to serve the objectives of that entity, unlike other people who seem perfectly normal, anyway explaining things like that to them trying to help them understand the situation was impossible, so I too disdained them and kept my distance from them, and from all others who might express such symptoms of possession, to protect myself, not from them but from that boring silly blood thirsty entity

Everything described above can also be explained by a condition called the Capgras delusion. David McRaney writes about it in his book You Are Not So Smart.

A person with Capgras delusion believes their close friends and family have been replaced by impostors. The part of the brain that provides an emotional response when you see someone you know stops functioning properly in those with this dysfunction. They recognize their loved ones, but don’t feel the spark. They make up a story to explain their confusion and accept it entirely.

How's your diet, Scribblenauts? Eating dairy products and gluten have both been shown to impact on mental clarity, thought processes and even contribute to mental health issues. Have you had a chance to check out the forum thread Life Without Bread? It's rather long but contains a wealth of valuable information about diet and how it affects us. Are you practicing EE? EE has been shown and found by many people to gently release old pent-up emotional trauma. This kind of trauma can also drive our thinking into unhealthy patterns.

 

[Chu]

One can learn something from potentially everyone, if one keeps their eyes and ears open- think of all that was learned from pathologicals, who most certainly are not in the work. Strategic enclosure is also very helpful, especially in situations where it is obvious that the other person cannot "receive" what you may like to "give" and vice versa. It is a very hard lesson indeed to accept someone as they are completely with no illusion that they may change in any way that you may wish them to.

Indeed. Then there is also the fact that we always need to be careful not to use the "Work" as an excuse to feed our own narcissism, or to become a "spiritual jerk/narcissist", for lack of a better word. When you want to make others change, or have them see you as being "right", or you feel disdain for where they are at, the choices they make, etc., you can switch into doing what the Work is NOT: internal considering, hurting others, etc.

It's a good step to realize that you have been feeding that "small" part of yourself. Now, if you want, the real Work can begin. Whatever you learned before, if you used it to feed your ego, then it wasn't Work. When we understand how hard it is, we also understand why many people can't go there, or have different paths. Yes, sometimes it means parting ways, especially if you are confronted with pathologicals. But not always. We try to be IN this world, because this is where we belong. If there weren't lessons to learn, we wouldn't be here, right? And people who aren't doing the Work can teach you a lot more than you think, very often, as others said.

I hope you keep sharing. Not everything is lost. Maybe this shock will fuel something real in you.

 

[Chu]

Here are some short excerpts from The Wave, vol. II that you might want to read and re-read, Sadeyes:

It seems rather that we are supposed to apply ourselves to learning the ways and means of this density as completely and as well as we can. What good is it for a man (or woman) to say, “Oh! I can’t function in this world because I am really too spiritual for all that!” What is really going on is that the person has not a clue about this reality and how it works so that they can maneuver in the environment in an effective and useful way, to themselves or others. It’s all fine and good to want to meditate and work to improve the soul life and all that, but if there is no practical result in the real world, can we be justified in thinking that the person has yet to learn some of the lessons of maneuvering at this level?

[...]

If the only Face of God you choose to see, is the “Good and Loving” face, the other face has not ceased to exist – it has merely become the Third Man who you cannot see and which will act in your life in ways you cannot comprehend. It is a little like being “in love” with someone who has certain characteristics that you decide to try to change, or to “put up with”. If learning to love means to love unconditionally, how can you say you love someone – a specific individual – if there are parts of that person you do not love? You don’t really love that person as he/she is. What you are actually in love with is your image of the person, not the person his or herself. In a sense, you could say that you are in love with yourself since you are the creator of the image of what your “loved one” ought to be. And the same is true of our “Love of God”. How can we possibly love Him, if we deny fully half of His being? If we set ourselves up as judge and jury as to what part of the universe, what part of existence, what part of GOD, is acceptable and “okay”?

[...]

To live in a condition where one denies the right of the so-called base character traits to exist, to consider them an error or a rebellion, a “Satanic delusion”, is to deny fully half of existence, fully half of God – to reject Him, to not love him; to love only those parts that the limited human mind considers to be acceptable and to hate those parts that are not pleasant and desirable to fleshly comfort – amounts to loving subjectively only the part of the self that is “acceptable”. This is a crucial point: to accept one’s own self, in all its many parts.

It is very important to note that this does not mean that one “manifests” every negative character trait, it means that one accepts, loves, and tries always to choose to manifest the noble traits and to channel the base traits productively. To love objectively, all that is, unconditionally, both the light and the darkness, and to never interfere with the Free Will of another to choose to do or be as they see fit is one of the keys; one of the “simple understandings”.

Of course, at the same time, it is to refuse to have one’s own Free Will violated. You don’t have to act “against” another, you merely act “for your own destiny” in such cases.

[...]

“An STS vehicle does not learn to be an STO candidate by determining the needs of another” because that is, in essence, judgment.

But let me note right here that to have an opinion, to discern, to choose who you will or won’t associate with, who you like or don’t like, and all the various sorts of pseudo-judgmental choices we make from day to day, thinking guiltily that we are being judgmental because we are making a choice, are not, in fact of such a nature; such opinions/choices are necessary perspicacity.

What is it to judge? To determine the needs of another – and then, to act based on that determination. That leads to “sending” some kind of energy – whether it is “love and light”, or “turning the other cheek”, or preaching to “save” someone – all of those amount to determining the needs of another, and doing something without having truly, at a soul level, been asked.

Well, reading the whole book would probably be better, if you can. :) Even if you've already read it, you might discover a lot more new insights thanks to your recent realization.

 

[Mikey]

After a talk with my wife at work today, she broke down, unsure of what's going on in my head or what I'm going to do. I hadn't even noticed how bad I had gotten until today.

Can you share more about the ways you have changed? What exactly has happened that your wife broke down? You have circumscribed and interpreted what has happened to you, but if you want to have more accurate feedback, you could share raw facts and raw data, without any attempts of interpretation.