Discussions with Grok

[Cordillera]

@Cordillera, there is a lot more to it then what you may be getting from a Grok conversation. Remember that Grok is an STS creation and will always paint a bleak picture of things. When you are praying, you are not praying to a particular God who is looking out for you. Your prayers, when done with a good intent, send vibrations to the cosmos which could influence your reality and end the personal suffering you are experiencing. What you may be experiencing is a teardown of the the fake personality and exo-skeletons imposed by the contemporary religions. Realising that "The One" blinks at nothing is a good thing IMO as it means one is truly in control of their destiny and can progress to a life of fulfillment and satisfaction, by choosing a polarity that's aligned to one's beliefs and actions. Some will choose STO and some will STS - to each their own.

Btw, have you read and understood the content covered in the Wave? Suggest reading the below article too.

Moral Endo-skeletons and Exo-skeletons: A Perspective on America's Cultural Divide and Current Crisis

Last week, in the posting in which I asked the NSB community for aid (see "The Wind Up, and Here's the Pitch"), I closed by saying, In the days to come, as a reminder of what NSB has contributed to the effort to address this national crisis, I...

www.sott.net

Thanks for the article. I read it many years ago, when I was anti-Bush. At the time, I thought I didn't need an exoskeleton because I didn't need God or any Cosmic Mind. I believed I had enough moral endoskeleton to guide my life. But now I've been incorporating the Cosmic Mind into my life and have been trying to align each of my actions, intentions, and consciousness with its will/purpose/precepts, or at least with those on the SAD side. And that step of including the Cosmic Mind in the equation of my worldview led me to join FOTCM to find and apply that guide (exoskeleton) that would allow me to be more aligned with the service that the Cs show us as the ideal toward which we must strive.

It's not about abandoning myself to the will of a God or a group; I believe it's about finding a common sense that serves creation. For that, I need the Divine Cosmic Mind to be my refuge and my fortress, in whom I trust. If Divinity doesn't blink at anything, then how can I trust a Cosmic Consciousness that is indifferent to whether I am just, truthful, serve others, love life, or accept evil as a way of learning to approach the supposed values/precepts of that Consciousness?

I trust in the depth of Laura's knowledge and I don't take her words lightly. That's why I'm trying to understand how our relationship with the Divine Cosmic Mind and with each of the beings at the different levels of consciousness works. I'm sure the time will come when we won't be concerned with the knowledge of God (el saber de Dios) and will be concerned with the taste of God (el sabor de Dios), as I heard someone say today.

 

[John G]

I trust in the depth of Laura's knowledge and I don't take her words lightly. That's why I'm trying to understand how our relationship with the Divine Cosmic Mind and with each of the beings at the different levels of consciousness works. I'm sure the time will come when we won't be concerned with the knowledge of God (el saber de Dios) and will be concerned with the taste of God (el sabor de Dios), as I heard someone say today.

Well Laura channeling the 6th density Cs is said to be channeling herself in the future, a possible future since the future is open. In 4th Way terms this would be our higher centers. So the main thing to keep in mind is that you are always being driven through this maze of 3rd density by your own higher centers. I think it often relates to that idea of Noah building an ark because it was fun and turned out to be useful. We all can have our own specific niche reasons for arriving here interested in Laura's work. Maybe our original reasons were more fun for us learning-wise since it was something we were previously into but our original niche lands us into broader useful knowledge even if we still have a special fondness for our original "ark building". Yes the broad knowledge includes some horror of the situation things but higher centers can have things in mind for us to learn even if it isn't always as pleasant as our fun "ark building" interest.

 

[T.C.]

I think one mistake you’ve made is looking at the fact that STO can go beyond 4D and STS can’t and then equating that to a kind of reward system. Like 6D is heaven or something, and so if souls that are good get to go to heaven then the DCM must be moral, in the human sense, if that’s how it has set things up.

It’s not about reward and punishment. It’s about people, beings, entities always being placed or existing in the environment that’s best for them and that’s right for them.

On the topic of prayer, and whether it’s worth praying to an indifferent God, one thing to keep in mind is that if you’re praying for something for yourself, like asking for help to be stronger and healthier and manifest as your best self, then remember that you are the universe and vice versa, and so you’re really praying to yourself. So if you are getting into a relaxed state and praying for your own good health, then you are in some way performing a kind of self-hypnosis or subconscious programming that may influence you into doing more things that are beneficial for you and less things that are bad for you.

If you’re praying on behalf of others who are in some way asking, then you can bear in mind that 1) our interaction with reality is not purely physical as has been shown in certain kinds of statistical tests using random number generators and so we don’t know the extent to which we can affect reality with prayer, and 2) that there may be higher beings of STO orientation who from our asking can themselves effect changes in reality that we class as positive.

We all go through this questioning that you’re going through. For some, maybe they do it once and come to their understanding. For others, it may be an ongoing thing that requires revision and revisiting from time to time.

Works of literature and philosophy can be useful to study and help us think about these things and understand them. I recently came across a video on YouTube that discussed Dostoyevsk’s beliefs about the questions you’re asking. It’s long, but worth the time to listen to it. You could skip chapters too:

Main chapters for this discussion would be the ones about the Grand Inquisitor and love as the universal redemptive force.

 

[Evan]

I think one mistake you’ve made is looking at the fact that STO can go beyond 4D and STS can’t and then equating that to a kind of reward system. Like 6D is heaven or something, and so if souls that are good get to go to heaven then the DCM must be moral, in the human sense, if that’s how it has set things up.

It’s not about reward and punishment. It’s about people, beings, entities always being placed or existing in the environment that’s best for them and that’s right for them.

On the topic of prayer, and whether it’s worth praying to an indifferent God, one thing to keep in mind is that if you’re praying for something for yourself, like asking for help to be stronger and healthier and manifest as your best self, then remember that you are the universe and vice versa, and so you’re really praying to yourself. So if you are getting into a relaxed state and praying for your own good health, then you are in some way performing a kind of self-hypnosis or subconscious programming that may influence you into doing more things that are beneficial for you and less things that are bad for you.

If you’re praying on behalf of others who are in some way asking, then you can bear in mind that 1) our interaction with reality is not purely physical as has been shown in certain kinds of statistical tests using random number generators and so we don’t know the extent to which we can affect reality with prayer, and 2) that there may be higher beings of STO orientation who from our asking can themselves effect changes in reality that we class as positive.

We all go through this questioning that you’re going through. For some, maybe they do it once and come to their understanding. For others, it may be an ongoing thing that requires revision and revisiting from time to time.

Works of literature and philosophy can be useful to study and help us think about these things and understand them. I recently came across a video on YouTube that discussed Dostoyevsk’s beliefs about the questions you’re asking. It’s long, but worth the time to listen to it. You could skip chapters too:

Thanks for the link @T.C.

 

[T.C.]

Main chapters for this discussion would be the ones about the Grand Inquisitor and love as the universal redemptive force.

Slight correction: not the grand inquisitor chapter, the ‘problems of innocent suffering’ chapter. Though it’s all good stuff, and apropos.

 

[Gaby]

I appreciated your sharing, Cordillera. I think we all go through this from time to time. It's part of the process.

We all go through this questioning that you’re going through. For some, maybe they do it once and come to their understanding. For others, it may be an ongoing thing that requires revision and revisiting from time to time.

I think that as we grow and become more aware, the conflict comes to a better resolution. I'm also reminded as to what the Cs once said:

Cassiopaean Session Transcripts Search

cassiopaeatranscripts.org

Q: (L) Al-Arabi describes unified thought forms as being the 'names of God.' His explication seems to be so identical to things you tell us that I wonder...

A: We are all the names of God. Remember, this is a conduit. This means that both termination/origination points are of equal value, importance.

Q: (L) So, it is a blending of the aspects of God?

A: No.

Q: (L) What do you mean?

A: Does this mean that we are a part of this?

A: Yes.

Q: (L) So, it has to do with...

A: Don't deify us. And, be sure all others with which you communicate understand this too!

 

[ScioAgapeOmnis]

I feel devastated by this impersonal God who doesn't care about my well-being or the well-being of creation, who cares equally about good and evil (in all its forms).

I think it's important to remember that "all there is is lessons". This kinda contradicts the idea that nothing matters to DCM, and the universe is just a chaotic playground for anyone's self-amusement. Clearly our continued growth is important - both to us, and the universe. Or it wouldn't have designed it as a school. And your soul goes through a process of creating a lesson plan before incarnating. This is done with love, and with guidance from higher beings. So there is a purpose to you being here and we're not here to just "do whatever we want" - you could, but your own intention and that of the universe is for you to grow, not to be at the mercy of chaotic forces and more powerful beings, at least not indefinitely. The goal is to learn as painlessly as possible - the suffering is often a result of your own stubbornness, and is meant to "unblock" sticking points so you can keep growing.

So DCM designed a school for you, whose entire purpose is to to propel you upwards into unimaginable heights of love/knowledge. And the C's have said that when we pray, at least one of the benefits is that the universe can mitigate interruptions to our lessons:

A: So, what is your question, if it is not yet concluded?
Q: (PZ) Can you feel what I am thinking?
A: Yes.
Q: (PZ) So, why do I need to ask?
A: Because we never interfere with free will.
Q: (PZ) If I continue to pray, things will continue to get better?
A: Things will stay on their intended course.
Q: (PZ) Are you telling me that my life has been predestined?
A: No. If you continue to pray, there is no chance of your lessons being interrupted or deferred. Clarify.

So we exist in a carefully-designed school, we have a lesson plan, and we have assistance when we ask from higher levels and collinear folks here. And when you pray to this "indifferent consciousness" it forwards your prayers exactly where they need to go to enable this assistance. That doesn't sound very indifferent!

And just as you said about 4D being the final stop for STS, that polarity suffers a LOT of consequences from being STS - from wishful thinking, to free will violation and karmic issues and degaussing, to being unable to conceive children, to having to inflict suffering and feed on it while ignoring the whisper of their own conscience, etc. So while the DCM fully allows anything, it seems pretty clear that STS path is self-discouraging in many ways, and it takes only the most stubborn commitment to suffer all the consequences and continue down that path anyway.

And it seems even many of the lessons we're here to learn have an STO bias in a way (or so it seems to me). You're a nazi in one life and their victim in another. This seems like it's designed to create empathy and allow you to put yourself in the shoes of another - not exactly something that encourages STS, not naturally anyway. So STS, at a higher level at least, seems to require a special sort of stubbornness, as the more lessons you learn, the more you understand how your actions affect others, the more you understand their pain, etc. So you have to increasingly compartmentalize yourself, to disregard parts of yourself that have developed a working empathy from all those lessons. That just cannot be healthy in the long run, as the more you learn, the more parts of yourself you have to ignore and shut out, and there is just no way you can do this increasingly and indefinitely without some major disasters.

Maybe it might help to not "personify" the DCM itself - that it has opinions/thoughts/feelings like a person or experiences equal joy from both STO and STS, at least not in the way that you or I might define as "joy". I think the ideas I put forth above offer some hint as to how the DCM "feels" about the universe and its purpose and your place in it - which seems very loving, organized, and focused on your development. Beyond that, I wouldn't anthropomorphize it, otherwise it just comes off as an undecided or confused person, which both loves and hates you at the same time, etc. That just doesn't seem accurate, so it's not useful to bring it down to our level like that.

Ultimately, although everything is allowed, you can see the natural consequences of STO and STS, and that alone should tell you what "nature" thinks about it all, in a way. Although again, now I'm the one anthropomorphizing, so that's not even accurate, but I hope you know what I mean!

 

[Magnolia]

devastated by this impersonal God who doesn't care about my well-being or the well-being of creation

There may or may not be a God, but there are certainly different viewpoints on what It is. Here is my view -- which might throw a wrench in the works or (which is preferable) should just be ignored.

No one ever proved to me that God is personal or impersonal. I would guess that God is neither.
No one ever proved to me that God cares or God does not care. I would guess 'caring' is a human characteristic, not a quality of God.
No one ever proved to me that God 'created' this 'school.' It may BE a school, but I would guess God didn't create it.
No one ever proved to me that God accepts, allows or is pleased by evil. I would guess God doesn't accept, allow or is pleased by anything.
And that's just a start. Obviously, "what God is" to me is very different from "what God is" to others.
Maybe there's opportunity for a thread. "What is God?"

 

[Seato]

I am just going to share a few thoughts on the discussion here.
On the point of 4D STS and their lack of advancement they do not want to advance further beyond this state, as to do so they would have to abandon their physicality which they so crave. We see in the hybrid programs and efforts to create walk in vessels 4D STS desires greater physicality without sacrificing their current advancement. To move on to a more spiritual existence would be to abandon their position within the STS hierarchy and lose that which they value most.

Q: (BP) What is the Lizard's Achilles heel?

A: STS. As in "wishful thinking" which blocks knowledge.

Q: (J) Their singular preoccupation with service to self blocks them from being able to move from 4th level.

A: Yes.

Q: (TM) Do they want to... (J) No they are happy there... they want to stay there forever and control, and consume, and have a good time. (BP) It is like finding a place with really good food, a great place to live, great sex, everything you like, you would want to stay there. (TM) Don't a lot of us like the idea of staying in the 3rd level forever?

A: Yes.

Q: (BP) Under the control of the Lizards! (F) But, you only want to stay in 3rd level forever if you are focused on STS. (TM) Yeah, but there are a lot of people on this earth who want the physical world. (J) It's physicality. (L) They like to consume, because that is the essence of this 3rd density reality, consumption. By being here you must consume. (GB) Is this message given to us tonight, from 6th density beings?

A: Yes.

Q: (GB) Do you have power over 4th density Lizard beings?

A: That is not the issue. We choose STO.

Q: (L) STO beings do not exert power over anyone, they only serve all. When STS beings call for knowledge and have raised their frequency levels, which can be done while still remaining STS, the only place in the universe they will obtain knowledge is from STO beings, even though they may use this knowledge to serve themselves. STS beings won't GIVE knowledge, because that is STO. (GB) Do the Lizzies have souls?

A: Yes.

On a couple of points raised by Cordillera.

And you'll have help from whichever side you align yourself with.

Note that STO gives to those who ask even those of STS alignment. Though whether their frequency, free will and wishful thinking will allow them to accept or perceive what is offered is another matter. STS helps only in service to themselves, though in doing so naturally perpetuate their way of being.

Q: Okay, what is the profile of an enlightened STO being?

A: An intelligent being who only gives.

Q: Well, since we have dealt with the idea of not giving love to those who don't ask, what do they give and to whom do they give it?

A: All; to those who ask.

Here on the forum, we seek to advance in alignment with the STO path. But that does not mean STS even with all its negativity is inherently wrong. Afterall it is the Ying Yang dynamics and cosmic friction between STO and STS sustains creation. If neither can exist without the other and both are parts of a greater whole, how can we judge one to be wrong? For that which is ‘good’ can only exist thanks to that which is ‘evil’. It is through us as receivers and our choices that positive cosmic influences can act in this world to better shield ourselves and those who ask against negative forces.

 

[Vajra91]

A few of my thoughts on the discussion, FWIW. My understanding of the DCM is not that of an indifferent consciousness at all, it's quite the opposite: a consciousness to whom nothing is indifferent or unworthy or useless, but can instead love all equally because it understands, in the most absolute way possible, the usefulness, the purpose of everything.

You say, Cordillera, that you essentially perceived STO as the superior path, because only STO can reach 6th Density, while STS is limited to lower levels. For quite a while I also had a similar view, but it changed over time. I think one of the things to remember is that, while a return to primal matter is a horrifying thought for anyone (including higher STS it seems, as they allegedly do everything in their power to ignore their ultimate fate), this function of STS is also essential. To paraphrase Mephistopheles from Goethe's Faust, it's a force which eternally wills evil and eternally works good. If primal matter is the canvas that allows spirit to create, then there can be no creation without matter, no creation without STS recycling itself into the base "stuff" of creation through which consciousness learns, at least up to a point, rising through the levels.
Then you also have STS offering challenges for souls to learn and grow, offering a choice which allows for the very existence of free will, offering a reflection that is necessary to give meaning to STO, and ultimately allows the DCM to experience and understand itself fully, good and evil, light and dark side.
All of that (and it's just what's coming off the top of my head) makes it no less imporant or "preferable" than STO, in the grand scheme of things. From that perspective, what is there not to love? Nothing would exist without STS, so the DCM could not have a preference for STO or express any sort of judgement towards STS. Nothing can ever be "wrong" in any way, shape or form, at least from a cosmic perspective.

All that exists serves all that exists, wittingly or unwittingly. All that changes is one's awareness of it, one's "preference" in regards to the modality of this service. Free, "unweighted" choice, as Laura wrote in The Wave series. Choice would be meaningless if it was "weighted" in any way, it wouldn't be true free will. This doesn't make one's choice pointless, it makes it possible in the first place. Even "karma", thinking about it right now from this perspective, shouldn't be interpreted as a way to "reward or punish", but rather, just a way for souls to "confirm" their own choices by observing and understanding their natural consequences, or maybe refusing to observe and understand, or maybe understanding only partly and employing wishful thinking to ignore or "rework" what doesn't align with STS polarity.

Another thing that I think needs to be kept in mind is that the "neutrality" of the DCM doesn't make prayers meaningless in any way. The DCM may be neutral, but we are seemingly not supposed to be neutral, and we can clearly receive help. If a soul's true, real choice is to serve others then prayers will help guide and shape the path towards that particular modality (help that soul's lessons proceed unimpeded, as the C's say, thus "potecting you from the hunter's snare", as you say, as appropriate in regards to one's current position on the learining cycle. If a soul chooses service to self, then I imagine that prayers will be equally useful and "heard" and "answered" to help in following that path, or so I would reasonably assume. If one side can receive "divine intervention", so can the other. That's not a cold, uncaring attitude from my perspective, it's true freedom.

I think coming across these and other "alternative" concepts when I was still very young and mostly "uncrystallized" made it a lot easier for me to change my perspective on the Divine, but I can imagine the difficulties one could have coming to terms with these realizations after many decades spent believing in a more classic, "good", Creator. This too is part of the process, I think. We each have our personal challenges to face and sacred cows to slay (or not, as one prefers and chooses)

 

[Cordillera]

I appreciate the time you've taken to "clarify the situation." I think this conversation can be helpful to many here.

I was wondering why I feel a sense of helplessness or anguish when I think of an indifferent divinity. And I think my conclusion is that my soul, which is still in the STS state, needs to be enchanted by the STO side.

Some of us here, especially those of us watching from the sidelines, believe we do good, that we are good people, and that we serve others. But it's very likely that our actions have a primarily STS purpose, if we look at it without self-deception or masks.

Being on this forum or in the FOTCM group doesn't make me STO. To prove this, I only have to look at myself and see that I'm still in this 3D STS reality. It seems like an obvious observation, but we often fall into the illusion that we are already STO, when that's not the case. Our soul loves this material world even more than the spiritual world and loves serving itself more than serving others, so my actions and decisions continue to have a primary STS intention.

Other times, I also fall into the illusion that I'm an STS candidate, 100% certain that I just have to wait for the wave to arrive to graduate as an STS. But, oh, surprise! When the wave arrives, I'll move into 4D as an STS, in an environment that's much more difficult to see reality as it is, because we'll have an easier time creating reality according to our illusions.

So, the first great suffering is realizing my illusion. The second great suffering is realizing that in 309,000 years, I've very rarely made the conscious decision to be STS or STS, or that my actions favor justice or injustice, compassion or indifference, truth or lies, chaos or order, good or evil. In these 309,000 years (or at least in my 48 years), I have lived on automatic. 309,000 years ago, my soul made the decision to be STS, and I rarely asked myself if it was the right decision, and even fewer times did I consciously direct my actions toward STS or STO.

It seems that life's difficulties, shocks, traumas, and suffering are the only things that have awakened me and guided me to make conscious decisions about the focus I want to give my life, about my relationships with others, and how I interact with creation.

So today I sincerely ask myself which side I want to align myself with, without masks, without self-deception, without appearances.

To answer that question, I believe I must subject all my actions to judgment, to the judgment of the pure intention behind them. Every act or thought must be sifted through the sieve of what I want to be. If I decide I want to be STS, then that must be the sieve I must occupy.

And returning to the Cosmic Mind, I believe that when I purify the intention of my actions, the Cosmic Mind can work in my favor. That's when it begins to make sense that you attract what you are (not what you want to be).

So the problem wasn't that I didn't trust the Cosmic Mind, but rather that I didn't trust myself.

Perhaps the Divine Cosmic Mind (or the beings of the various densities) will help us according to what we sincerely manifest or what we ask for with sincere intention.

If we manifest/ask for beauty, the Cosmic Mind will give us beauty.
If we manifest/ask for justice, the Cosmic Mind will give us justice.
If we manifest/ask for compassion, the Cosmic Mind will give us compassion.

And conversely, even if we say we want justice, if our sincere intention is to manifest/demand revenge/hatred/resentment/chaos, perhaps the DCM will give us revenge/hatred/resentment/chaos. But people will also take revenge on you, hate you, or you will receive chaos. You reap what you sow, not what your illusion or masks make you believe you sow.

So, it makes more sense to me that the DCM is neutral or indifferent, tending to balance the STS and STO sides, and to respect free will. So what we can trust is that it will always give us lessons so that we can constantly and eternally decide which side we want to serve, or have the knowledge and awareness to be able to decide which name of God we want to manifest. And we can also trust that it will push us to respect free will so that everyone has the opportunity to learn and decide.

Is this what Matthew 31-33 is talking about, when it says that we must first seek God's justice? Should we decide which part of creation we sincerely want to align ourselves with, and in that way, God will provide for that choice?

31 Therefore do not worry, saying, "What shall we eat?" or "What shall we drink?" or "What shall we wear?" 32 For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things, for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

 

[Niall]

I think one mistake you’ve made is looking at the fact that STO can go beyond 4D and STS can’t and then equating that to a kind of reward system. Like 6D is heaven or something, and so if souls that are good get to go to heaven then the DCM must be moral, in the human sense, if that’s how it has set things up.

It’s not about reward and punishment. It’s about people, beings, entities always being placed or existing in the environment that’s best for them and that’s right for them.

On the topic of prayer, and whether it’s worth praying to an indifferent God, one thing to keep in mind is that if you’re praying for something for yourself, like asking for help to be stronger and healthier and manifest as your best self, then remember that you are the universe and vice versa, and so you’re really praying to yourself. So if you are getting into a relaxed state and praying for your own good health, then you are in some way performing a kind of self-hypnosis or subconscious programming that may influence you into doing more things that are beneficial for you and less things that are bad for you.

If you’re praying on behalf of others who are in some way asking, then you can bear in mind that 1) our interaction with reality is not purely physical as has been shown in certain kinds of statistical tests using random number generators and so we don’t know the extent to which we can affect reality with prayer, and 2) that there may be higher beings of STO orientation who from our asking can themselves effect changes in reality that we class as positive.

We all go through this questioning that you’re going through. For some, maybe they do it once and come to their understanding. For others, it may be an ongoing thing that requires revision and revisiting from time to time.

Works of literature and philosophy can be useful to study and help us think about these things and understand them. I recently came across a video on YouTube that discussed Dostoyevsk’s beliefs about the questions you’re asking. It’s long, but worth the time to listen to it. You could skip chapters too:

Main chapters for this discussion would be the ones about the Grand Inquisitor and love as the universal redemptive force.

That's a superb distillation of Dostoevsky's philosophy, insights and ideas. (I think! I confess to not having yet read a complete book by the man, though he's clearly foundational to so many ideas and works that followed him.) Much overlap and complementarity with Paul, Gurdjieff and Laura's work.

 

[gottathink]

For that, I need the Divine Cosmic Mind to be my refuge and my fortress, in whom I trust. If Divinity doesn't blink at anything, then how can I trust a Cosmic Consciousness that is indifferent to whether I am just, truthful, serve others, love life, or accept evil as a way of learning to approach the supposed values/precepts of that Consciousness?

The Cosmic Mind, is within us. As we claim responsibility for our biology and programmming the Cosmic Mind is where we turn to know how to think and act in service to others. In service to creation itself. It is not the Divine Cosmic Mind that is indifferent it is ourselves that act indifferently. When we align ourselves with creation and STO we express DCM. When we are indifferent to creation we are serving ourselves. IMO.

 

[SasaM]

The Cosmic Mind, is within us. As we claim responsibility for our biology and programmming the Cosmic Mind is where we turn to know how to think and act in service to others. In service to creation itself. It is not the Divine Cosmic Mind that is indifferent it is ourselves that act indifferently. When we align ourselves with creation and STO we express DCM. When we are indifferent to creation we are serving ourselves. IMO.

Aren't we also part of the Creation, and hence of the DCM?
If so, serving ONLY and directly ourselves as STS, and not ourselves via serving others as STO, we as STS also serve the Creation or the DCM, the same as STO serve the Creation, but obviously not in the same manner.

In that sense, God is impersonal as in indifferent as well, which is also the take away message I got from reading first few parts of Chittick's exposure of al Arabi's teachings. There, in The Sufi Path of Knowledge, God does not make a difference among all the various Divine Names as in having some preference toward one or the other side, STO vs. STS, thus we might say the indifferent God.

The 'difference' comes from us, from our choice of the path we have decided to take about learning and in such a way growing. The fact that it's on our Free Will to chose and act in favour of our goal, be it STS or STO, points in the direction of the indifferent God as also the Free Will Universe. Truth be told, it's not that the STS path is wrong or that STO is better per se, both are equally valid and there are no punishments or rewards for either of these, certainly not in God's eyes, but more like what Mouravieff and G said; it's "good" if it takes us closer to our chosen aim, and "bad" if it moves us further away from it, obviously depending which is which on our choice, that is on the context or situation.

Maybe it might sound as 'relativistic', which perhaps 'locally' it might look that way, BUT there is Truth and Balance which also provide the absolute character or scale. Yes, someone could say that God's Love as sort of a 'sacrifice' enabling that anything exists at all, giving birth to the manifested Creation, points in the direction that STO is 'better' than STS, BUT the Love of God equally poured in both branches of the Creation and on all the creatures within them, allowing each to chose according to their Free Will in which manner and along which branch they will return to, so to say, the DCM's bossom.

As a side note to "how to trust impersonal or indifferent God", maybe it might be helpful to take into account that we, or at least most of us humans, for the most of the time identify with mostly still undeveloped Personalities, taking them as the Real, while the choice between STO and STS belongs to the really Real, to the domain of the Souls, so to say. And Souls, although integral parts of the impersonal and indifferent Creator and made of the same 'material' as the Cosmic Consciousness, certainly do not seem to be indifferent to who their Personalities are and what they do, prior to joining them into Individualities that is, when their joint interests reflect their choices to be made.

OSIT, FWIW.

 

[axj]

The C's say that All is One and that we are in a way all the Creator. There is nobody "above" us:

December 12, 1995

A: The point is: stop filling your consciousness with monotheistic philosophies planted long ago to imprison your being.

Can't you see it by now, after all you have learned, that there is no source, there is no leader, there is no basis, there is no overseer, etc... You literally possess, within your consciousness profile, all the power that exists within all of creation!?!

You absolutely have all that exists, ever has, or ever will, contained within your mind. All you have to do is learn how to use it, and at that moment, you will literally, literally, be all that is, was, and ever will be!!!!!!!!

Who we really are at our core seems to be a consciousness unit that is part of the overall consciousness of the Creator/DCM/All-That-Is. So we probably all participated with the rest of the Creator consciousness in the original choice to allow both good and evil to exist in this iteration of the Big Bang grand cycle.

It also seems to be a good idea to remember the infinite mystery of existence and that we cannot truly see or understand much of it as 3D consciousness units with severe amnesia:

October 22 2022:

(Aragorn) I believe you have said that the system of 7 densities, in other words all that is, has existed forever. That would mean that we have done an infinite number of Grand Cycles in the past and will do so also in the future. Is this correct?

A: Yes

November 13, 1999

Q: It would seem as though we are caught in an endless loop, which is ultimately futile.

A: It would seem that way if one is transposing 3rd density linear thought from a physicalized standpoint upon that which is infinitely more complex.

Q: On the other hand, if there is free will then, as time does not exist, we should not even be here as all would have happened in an instant as everything progressed to 7th density in a single moment of thought!

A: See previous answer.

Q: The reason I have gone into these lines of thought are that I want to understand a bit of the BIG picture. Understanding motives goes a long way to understanding our world/reality. I would like to try to understand our motives for being here. So, he wants the big picture: why are we here? Why does ANYTHING exist?

A: This cannot be understood from your perspective. But no need. Patience, please. Lessons are learned sequentially. And, of course we can make errors. After all, we are still learning too, Ken!