Do I have questions, or am I rambling, or just Baked Noodles...

[kenlee]

But as both the C's and the Ra material have explained, one can transition to 4th density via the STS path as well. However, the Ra material suggests that it is far more difficult and rare, as it requires "greater dedication". As I recall, they said that one had to be at least 51% STO-oriented to transition via the STO path, but 95% STS-oriented to transition via the STS path.

Yeah, a lot of people think of spirituality in terms of going only in one direction but I think it’s more like an emotional path we take reinforced by the choices we make. One can move spiritually inwardly (service to self) or outwardly (service to others). Illion spoke of two kinds of spirituality in his book ‘Darkness over Tibet.’

From http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/tibet2.htm

Back to Illion: he doesn't like the number nine either, and probably for the same, or similar, reasons that I never cared for it. It is the number of the Ennead, the Nine Gods of Egypt, and the product of 666. He gets into a discussion about numerology with Narbu and his ideas are truly interesting in light of the C's material, so I beg the reader's indulgence once more while I share them. Illion tells Narbu:

"I think man ought not to carry numerological speculations beyond the figure five."
"Why that?" asks Narbu.

"Five is the number of man. The higher number lead to complication and perdition, the smaller ones to God."

"But surely the number nine exists!" exclaims Narbu.

"It does, because the conventional system of counting runs up to nine, and then ten quite arbitrarily becomes the higher unit. We could just as well adopt a system in which we should have only four figures, namely one, two, three, four, five being equivalent to the higher unit. Then nine would not exist, nor would six, seven and eight, which in my opinion - arithmosophically - are all numbers of complication, entanglement, and seduction."

"What an original idea!" exclaimed Narbu. "I have studied numerology for several years. Its occult bearing is enormous. Figures have an occult connection with abstract notions with which we co-relate them. In this way figures can be made a kind of medium between the Divine and man."
"Numerology is a highly double-edged affair although it looks quite harmless," observed Illion.
"Suppose we get down to concrete numerological notions, " said Narbu. "Take one: one is the number of oneness - the number of non-manifested Divinity. I think you must agree to this."
"Yes," said Illion, "I do. If we imagine a point in space, it is a mere abstraction, for a point really is immaterial. So one is the number of undivided abstract existence."

"I am surprised that you introduce geometrical notions into the field of numerology. It is a very original idea, "observed Narbu. "Now let us take the figure two. It represents the contrast between spirit and matter."

"I profoundly disagree with you here," said Illion.

"Do you deny that two is the number of contrasts?" asked Narbu, greatly surprised.
"I agree that two is the number of contrasts," Illion answered, "but not the contrast you have just mentioned. If we take two points in space, they determine the position of a straight line, which also is immaterial. But it remains to be seen what abstract contrast is reflected by the figure two. You say it is one between spirit and matter. In my opinion you are wrong. Spirit is an abstraction but matter is not. So the abstract line represented by figure two which connects two point, each of which is immaterial, really is the contrast between two different kinds of spirit and not between spirit and matter. There must be two altogether different types of spirituality which are diametrically opposed to each other. That, in my opinion, is the numerological significance of the number two."

I think there’s a good description of this inward and outwardly directed movement in Sebastian Haffner's Memoirs in the book Defying Hitler, especially in the last two paragraphs of the excerpt below (taken from his book).

From the link:
http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3521.msg23791#msg23791.

There is a third temptation I need to mention. It is the one I had to fight against myself, and again I was certainly not the only one. Its starting point is the recognition of the danger of succumbing to the previous temptation. You do not want to let yourself be morally corrupted by hate and suffering, you want to remain good-natured, peaceful, amiable and 'nice'. But how to avoid hate and suffering if you are daily bombarded with things that cause them? You must ignore everything, look away, block your ears, seal yourself off. That leads to a hardening through softness and finally also to a form of madness: the loss of a sense of reality.

For simplicity's sake, let me talk about my own experiences, not forgetting that my case should be multiplied a hundred thousand or a million-fold.

I have no talent for hate. j have always been convinced that involving oneself too deeply in polemics and arguments with incorrigible opponents, hating the despicable too much, destroys something in oneself - something that is worth preserving and is difficult to rebuild. My natural gesture of rejection is to turn away, not to go on the attack.

I also have a strong sense of the honour one does an opponent by deigning to hate him, and I felt that the Nazis in particular were not worthy of this honour. I did not want to be on such close terms with them as to hate them. The worst affront I suffered from them was not their intrusive demands for me to join in - those were beneath thinking or getting upset about - but the fact that, by being impossible to ignore, they daily caused me to feel hate and disgust, feelings that are so much against my nature.

Could I not find an attitude that avoided being forced to feel anything, even hate or disgust?

Could I not develop a serene, imperturbable disdain, 'taking one look and then moving on'?

What if it cost me half, or if need be all, my external life?

At just this time I read a dangerous, alluringly ambiguous sentence of Stendhal's. He wrote it as a coda after the restoration of 1814, an event that he felt to be a 'descent into the quagmire' just as I viewed the events of 1933.

There was only one thing, he wrote, still worth the toil and trouble, namely 'to hold oneself holy and pure'.

Holy and pure! That meant not only steering clear of all participation, but also of all devastation through pain, and any distortion through hate - in short, from any reaction at all, even that caused by rejection. Turn away - retreat into the smallest corner if you have to, if you can only keep it free of the polluted air, so that you can save undamaged the only thing worth saving, namely (to use the good old theological word) your soul.

I still think that there is some justification for this attitude; and I do not repudiate it. However, simply ignoring everything and retreating into an ivory tower, the way I imagined it then, was not the right thing to do. I thank God that my attempt to do so failed quickly and thoroughly.

Some of my acquaintances' attempts did not fail so quickly, and they had to pay a high price to learn that one can sometimes only save the peace of one's soul by sacrificing and relinquishing it.

 

[Peam]

FWIW, I remember reading somewhere, probably the Ra material, that since this 3D world is STS, it is actually easier to gravitate towards an STS choice. Therefore, the percentage requirements (51% for STO and 95% for STS) are such that the "difficulties" on both paths will be equal so as to make it an unweighted choice.

The way this is always said, ie. 51% STO and 95% STS for graduation, always sounded disproportionate to me. As if one has to go from zero STO to 51% STO. But if it’s thought of in a different way, that is, instead of thinking 51% STO we think 49% STS it begins to seem more even.

So if everyone’s starting point is somewhere between 49% and 95% (mid point of sleeping mechanical man probably being about 72% ish, but the spread might be more either side of this due to lessons learned from previous lives as well as the present one) then when beginning to wake up and choose ones direction, the difficulties to the respective graduation percentages could be roughly equal.
Although depending on ones starting percentage might mitigate the difficulty or make it harder.

 

[RedFox]

Hi Al

Having just had a very similar learning experience, I agree with Buddy on what he say

How do we reconcile 'the horror of the situation' with 'learning is fun?'

I suppose we ask ourselves, "are these really our thoughts?"
Speaking metaphorically, it may help to put some distance between you and this fear by realizing that it's the predator's mind that is angry and afraid of becoming "stuck" here without 'Al Today' due to your increasing awareness and desire to graduate.

Your dream to me spells it out quite clearly that this is the case.....

Yes, and it is not pretty. I remember a female [femanine side of yourself] and thinking I have to KILL her [pathalogical thinking, predators mind]. I had no weapon so I grabbed her head with both hands and drove my thumbs through her eyes into her brain [blinding yourself and crypaling your analytical capacity]. The I was in the drivers seat in a parking lot [car is a good metaphore for hoarse/carrage]. All cars heading for the exit at the same time, like a demolition derby [emotional paniced responce, purely mechanical and pathalogical (destructive), curupted fight or flight responce]. After cars bouncing off each other, racing for the one exit, on the road all was BLACK [this is all you can see the pathalogcial thoughts having blinded yourself] and I thought: Hey “Turn on the lights”. After turning on the lights [lights are required to Not be blind], I saw a car ahead of me and had a head on collision. [you can see it though, that letting those thoughts drive your paniced horse (car) will probably cause you to crash badly] Many cars strewn over and all I could think was to escape, fast. Soooo, all day thinking about this: I may be killing a soul/someone, making them blind while I am blind. But I just gotta get the hell outta here.

All together, with what you've posted I think it boils down tot he following.
You've had a major emotional (and possibly mental) shock to the system. This has kicked some of your core programs/predators mind/pathological thinking into action. It has taken the energy from emotional shock, added its 'twisted' thoughts of 'escape', killed off your balancing (non predator/non pathological/feminine/creative) side, blinded you to the truth (all you gotta do is turn on the lights!) and is driving you into a car wreck!!!
As Buddy says, are those Really your thoughts?
The emotions are genuine and perfectly acceptable, its the twisting and controlling of your emotions through pathological thinking (for the predators own ends) that is the kicker.
Just like all pathological types, they'll sell you truth with a twist, corrupted for control of you.

Maybe you need to park your car up and revive your female side? Turn on your lights.

This to me is where learning is fun :)

 

[vinny]

hi Peam, I think it is not necessary to get hung up on the numbers. My own understanding of it is as follows: We are STS beings, in an STS realm. We cannot just 'be' STO, but there is a possibility, however distant, of becoming an STO candidate and giving back to the process of creation, by working (on ourselves, and also 'outwards'), and by more fully understanding the nature of our own being, and starting to see through some of the lies we tell ourselves (see anart's signature quote from Mme De Salzmann). If that is possible, and we can get to a point where we truly 'see' ourselves, then there is a distant possibility, with hard Work, that we might be able to counterbalance that STS nature with a certain measure of service to others. If someone were able to reach the truly remarkable point of giving back more than they have taken, then I think that would be what is figuratively referred to as "51% STO". This could only be possible once one had debugged one's own thought processes, gained an extensive knowledge of self, and learnt how to act without anticipation of payback. To use Gurdjieff's words: to pay all, and pay in advance.

The STS environment we find ourselves in, with all it's pain and pathology, is exactly what is required to give us the material and provide the shocks that make this kind of awakening possible, however remotely. It provides that conflict, that tension to struggle against, which seems to be entirely necessary to the process of gaining real knowledge, which cannot be found without 'participation'. Basically, we're here, because this is where we fit for our current lesson profiles, ie: to remain as we are or put conscious work towards something different.

 

[Mountain Crown]

[quote author=Al Today][quote author=buddy]
Do you mean why would we even want to 'escape'?[/quote]
I have not been yet able to overcome this urge.[/quote]

Is this necessary?

The meaning of "to escape" is predicated upon the awareness of confinement or, as in computer usage, a need to change a programming sequence. Buddy's question as well as your answer arose from your assumed contrasting of the BBM as a great place to learn and an undesirable place in which to exist.

It is highly unlikely that anyone chose to come here permanently, the urge to escape may very well be a tacit memory of this. The need to learn implies expanding awareness. In light of this consider the following:

3D is limited awareness, the need for expansion may produce a desire to graduate from it.

The BBM is STS. STS is contracting, entropic, and restricts information. This may produce a desire for a different way.

Higher levels of awareness requires refined emotion/intuition. Awakening to this may produce a revulsion and a commitment to leaving behind:
Murder, hatred, racism, war, slavery, monotheism, Zionism, child abuse, psychopathy, starvation, gender abuse, torture, crime, disease and suffering, greed, lies, mind control, fear mongering, animal abuse, automatism, abridgment of free will, patriotism, noise and confusion, vampirism, narcissism, drug abuse, ignorance. . .

 

[Psalehesost]

I NEED TO WORK ON MY PERCEPTION THAT THERE IS SOMETHING OF AN ANOMOLY ON THIS BBM. WHY DO I FEEL THAT SOMEHOW WE ARE IN SOME KINDA LOOP WHERE WE, AS CATTLE, ARE CONSITANTLY RETURNED HERE AS FOOD FOR SOMEONE/SOMETHING

Probably because the C's said that we are in a time loop. Apparently this time loop is where we are due to our decision to experience physicality and all that entails. An increase in level of awareness - knowledge, learning, can allow us to leave this time loop once we have learned all we need to learn in order to be able to do that.

There is another kind of loop also involved - short wave cycle - 3D/5D, shifting between physical and ethereal states, this being a part of 3D STS (the "quick and painful" learning mode), but 3D STO (a slower and more "harmonious" learning mode) apparently being a different thing, where a long-cycle ethereal existence is had. It also seems that some of the substance accumulated through life here becomes "food for the Moon" upon dying/transitioning back.


EDIT: Also, as for the discussion in the thread on how much is known between lives in 5D, there is also the comment oft-repeated by Laura: "A dead Presbyterian is just that, a dead Presbyterian." While a greater perspective would be had, and one that - given non-linearity of time - would encompass a view of all lives, as I've understood it, said lives at the same time being placed in different "times" yet also concurrent, how much of a "clue" is had is also limited by how much has been learned during one's lives. So the general idea one has in 5D might be fuzzy or distorted until one learns enough to approach the time where one gets ready to graduate. Programming stemming from life in the Matrix could very well carry over if one still believes in it.

 

[anart]

There is another kind of loop also involved - short wave cycle - 3D/5D, shifting between physical and ethereal states, this being a part of 3D STS (the "quick and painful" learning mode), but 3D STO (a slower and more "harmonious" learning mode) apparently being a different thing, where a long-cycle ethereal existence is had. It also seems that some of the substance accumulated through life here becomes "food for the Moon" upon dying/transitioning back.

You appear to be mixing concepts here - the short wave cycle involves both STS and STO - it is the physicality that defines it.  Also, the short wave cycle does have an ethereal component; in fact,  I think the C's mentioned that half of the short wave cycle is ethereal:

A: Well, all things have desirable consequences as well as
undesirable consequences, but it must also be mentioned here
that everything that exists in all realms of the universe can
experience existence in one of only two ways. That would be
defined as a long wave cycle and a short wave cycle. Going
back to your previous question about why humans are
"entrapped" in physical existence, which, of course, is
voluntary and chosen, this was due to the desire to change
from the long wave cycle experience of completely what you
would call ethereal or spiritual existence, to the short wave
cycle of what you call physical existence. The difference is
that a long wave cycle involves only very gradual change in
evolution in a cyclical manner. Whereas a short wave cycle
involves a duality. And this is the case with souls in physical
bodies as is experienced on this earth plane because the soul
experiences an ethereal state for half the cycle and a physical
state for the other half of the cycle. While these halves are not
measured in time the way you measure time, the totality of
experience is equal in each half.

Also, 'food for the moon', from my current understanding, is not a substance that accumulates, so much as it is a figurative term to describe the emotional energy that feeds beings of whom we are consciously unaware (by design) who reside in the dimension 'above us' (though it is not above in spatial terms).  It does not accumulate so much as there is a constant 'milking' of emotions as food.   

This phrase is also used to describe the eventual transformation of the moon into an Earth like body via the 'growth' of this part of the Universe, but I've not yet personally determined which aspects of this idea are figurative and which are literal, so I'm not comfortable really making a statement on that aspect.

 

[Oxajil]

A: Well, all things have desirable consequences as well as
undesirable consequences, but it must also be mentioned here
that everything that exists in all realms of the universe can
experience existence in one of only two ways. That would be
defined as a long wave cycle and a short wave cycle. Going
back to your previous question about why humans are
"entrapped" in physical existence, which, of course, is
voluntary and chosen, this was due to the desire to change
from the long wave cycle experience of completely what you
would call ethereal or spiritual existence, to the short wave
cycle of what you call physical existence. The difference is
that a long wave cycle involves only very gradual change in
evolution in a cyclical manner. Whereas a short wave cycle
involves a duality. And this is the case with souls in physical
bodies as is experienced on this earth plane because the soul
experiences an ethereal state for half the cycle and a physical
state for the other half of the cycle. While these halves are not
measured in time the way you measure time, the totality of
experience is equal in each half.

I once made a sketch of this (fwiw):

 

[Psalehesost]

There is another kind of loop also involved - short wave cycle - 3D/5D, shifting between physical and ethereal states, this being a part of 3D STS (the "quick and painful" learning mode), but 3D STO (a slower and more "harmonious" learning mode) apparently being a different thing, where a long-cycle ethereal existence is had. It also seems that some of the substance accumulated through life here becomes "food for the Moon" upon dying/transitioning back.

You appear to be mixing concepts here - the short wave cycle involves both STS and STO - it is the physicality that defines it.

I'd gotten the impression that short-wave cycle corresponds to the STS mode of learning - probably was mistaken there (I say "probably" because what I can find on this subject is a bit ambiguous) - and that 3D STS is more "physical" than 3D STO, (suggested in the comments of the pre-Fall 3D STO being in an environment akin to a "Semi/sort of" 4D state) though this may not be related.

Also, the short wave cycle does have an ethereal component; in fact, I think the C's mentioned that half of the short wave cycle is ethereal:

So I said: "short wave cycle - 3D/5D, shifting between physical and ethereal states". (perhaps the structuring of my text taken together was unclear? if so, will see to improving that in the future)

A: Well, all things have desirable consequences as well as
undesirable consequences, but it must also be mentioned here
that everything that exists in all realms of the universe can
experience existence in one of only two ways. That would be
defined as a long wave cycle and a short wave cycle. Going
back to your previous question about why humans are
"entrapped" in physical existence, which, of course, is
voluntary and chosen, this was due to the desire to change
from the long wave cycle experience of completely what you
would call ethereal or spiritual existence, to the short wave
cycle of what you call physical existence. The difference is
that a long wave cycle involves only very gradual change in
evolution in a cyclical manner. Whereas a short wave cycle
involves a duality. And this is the case with souls in physical
bodies as is experienced on this earth plane because the soul
experiences an ethereal state for half the cycle and a physical
state for the other half of the cycle. While these halves are not
measured in time the way you measure time, the totality of
experience is equal in each half.

Bolded above, I associated the long-wave cycle mentioned with the pre-Fall state, and the switch to the short-wave cycle with the Fall resulting from a "desire-based imbalance".

The session continues:

The necessity to
form the short wave cycle was brought about through nature through
the natural bounds of the universe when the group mind of souls
chose to experience physicality as opposed to a completely ethereal
existence.
Q: (L) Does this interaction produce a by-product?
A: It produces equal by-products of a positive and negative nature.
Q: (L) And what are these by-products?
A: Which one first?
Q: (L) Positive.
A: Positive by-product is an increase in relative energy which
speeds up the learning process of the soul and all of it's one
dimensional and two dimensional interactive partners. In other
words, flora and fauna, minerals, etc. All experience growth and
movement towards reunion at a faster rate on the cycle through this
short wave cycle physical/ethereal transfer. Of a negative nature, it
also produces many negative experiences for these very same
entities which otherwise would not exist because being of a first
level and second level nature, flora and fauna would ordinarily
experience a long term or long wave cycle on the physical plane as
opposed to a short wave cycle physical and ethereal, as they do
now because of their interaction with the human species in its short
wave ethereal/physical cycle.

This is part of why I made that association.

This would however seem to contradict it:

A: [...] remember, as we have described
to you before, levels one through four, more appropriately density
levels one through four, all
involve short wave cycle recycling, or, as you refer to it,
reincarnation. Because, each and every one of these density levels
has a soul and a physical body marriage, as it were, in progressive
life experiences. Each and every one of these density levels
involves movement to the fifth level of density for contemplation
during the cycling process. It is level six, which is the first level
where short wave cycle recycling is no longer necessary because
there is no more physical
orientation. [...]

(unless it is taken to refer to one of two things that densities 1D to 4D "all involve" rather than the only thing, but I'm not going to make any assumption)

But then there is this:

A: Humans were not entrapped by the "Lizards."

Q: (B) We volunteered! (L) Well, they did say that the Lizards were waiting for the right soul
matrix to "step in." So, we were the right soul matrix and we stepped into these engineered
bodies that the Lizards created. [...]

A: If you look more closely at the material, it was not stated that the consciousness levels
currently represented by humans and many others "stepped into" anything in particular but
PHYSICALITY.

Q: [...] (L) So that relates back to the
idea of "simultaneous disbursement?" Half of The All chose to "fall asleep" as matter, and other
"units" or groups chose to interact with matter by "informing" it with life of all different varieties,
more or less simultaneously? So we can have souls that are slow accretions out of matter over
the long wave cycle, moving through the densities over aeons, and souls that thought they would
speed things up a bit by a different method of entering directly into bodies and changing them.
Well, that seems like a sort of "right off the bat" violation of the free will of the energies of such
bodies and their emerging consciousnesses in the long wave cycle. That right there is STS even
if it was not realized as such at the time. And such an act could have some tremendous
implications in terms of what you have called a "desire based imbalance." It takes us back to the
story of the Prodigal Son. So we have a very complex idea of souls and their evolution in more
than one mode.

A: Yes.

And:

Q: [..] As I understand it, or as I am
trying to figure it out from the literature, prior to the 'Fall in
Eden,' mankind lived in a 4th density state. Is that correct?
A: Semi/sort of.
Q: Please be more specific.
A: 4th density in another realm, such as time/space
continuum, etc.
Q: Okay, so this realm changed, as a part of the cycle;
various choices were made: the human race went through the
door after the 'gold,' so to speak, and became aligned with
the Lizzies [...] What was the motivating factor for playing in the dirt?
What essential thing occurred? You said once that it was
'desire based imbalance.' What was it a desire for?
A: Increased physicality

Comment on part of this last from The Wave 12a: "Remember that they have already said that we were formerly 3rd density "aligned" with STO 4th density. This suggests that to be 3rd density STO and in "contact" with 4th density STO entails significant positive interaction and "bleedthrough" between the two densities as suggested above! A very different realm indeed!"

Continues:

Q: So, prior to this time, this prior Edenic state...
A: Was more like 4th density.
Q: But that implies that there was some level of physicality.
Was there physicality in the sense of bodies that look like
present-day humans?
A: Not quite.
Q: What did these pre-fall...
A: Cannot answer because it is too complex for you to
understand.
Q: [...] If going back to 4th density is anything like
coming from 4th density, does that mean that what we would
go back to is something that is too complex to understand?
This variability of physicality that you have described?
A: Yes.

If this 3D STO state was also a short-wave cycle shifting between a less-but-still physical state and a yet more ethereal 5D state, (found no references, but this seems likely. then there is the first quoted session, which I won't assume to say the opposite, since I don't know whether it is correct to link it to this issue) then I was mistaken in my comment. Instead - and regardless - the idea of a "quick and painful" versus "slow and harmonious" learning mode seems to apply to 1D and 2D which may or may not be in contact with 3D STS beings, being so making for a part-ethereal short-wave cycle instead of an only-physical long-wave one.

Also, 'food for the moon', from my current understanding, is not a substance that accumulates, so much as it is a figurative term to describe the emotional energy that feeds beings of whom we are consciously unaware (by design) who reside in the dimension 'above us' (though it is not above in spatial terms). It does not accumulate so much as there is a constant 'milking' of emotions as food.

This phrase is also used to describe the eventual transformation of the moon into an Earth like body via the 'growth' of this part of the Universe, but I've not yet personally determined which aspects of this idea are figurative and which are literal, so I'm not comfortable really making a statement on that aspect.

I'd gotten the idea that there were both. But mentions of death and 4D STS feeding in cass-related material (such as the first quoted session) also mention that this feeding is on the emotion resulting from the inflicting of suffering, so I guess this was incorrect. Though there may be extra death-related feeding if there is more "energy" in the system that is released at death apart from that which goes to 5D ("life force", etc.) which is "edible", but that's just speculating.

Might be a better idea to simply always use the expression of the feeding of 4D STS, since "food for the moon" is ambiguous - will do so in the future. As for this latter meaning, I'm also unsure.