Do less

[Menna]

A: You are all STS. If you were not, you would not be where you are.

The more I do interact with outside life I feel the more I mess things up. Except for reading and gaining knowledge this is great for my being but then when I understand the concept I try and use them in my life and interaction and it messes things up. I came across the quote from the C's just now and decided to post my thoughts that the more I do the more I STS things up. I feel like the best state for me to be in is just to acquire knowledge and use it for my own benefit. This way I avoid this STSness that is engrained in me. By learning and doing for myself I believe that is the best way for me to interact with the universe and the people in it. Sure if someone directly asks me for help and i can fulfill their request I will help but as far as taking the initiative to help I feel I shouldn't do this just interact with what's presented in front of me in the best way possible.


mod: corrected quoting

 

[Maya]

What does it mean 'you mess things up'...?

do your work, observe/ remember youself as much as possible, no talking, no lying ,no daydreaming,
try not to express negative feelings by being objective, practise internal/ external appreciation ...
You sure heared of this ..? ;D
It helps me everytime to find out where I stand and 'fix things' if I had feeling I messed something up...
It not easy at all to beat and practise your own machine ... don't give up

 

[Menna]

Mess things up meaning my actions produce a result that is worse then if I left well enough alone. Trying to perfect the situation wanting (STS) to change the outcome to be more STO in my view but how can I trust my STS being has the proper STO view? Right now I believe I cant

 

[mkrnhr]

Sure if someone directly asks me for help and i can fulfill their request I will help but as far as taking the initiative to help I feel I shouldn't do this just interact with what's presented in front of me in the best way possible.

That's one detail to consider. Helping when asked and helping without being asked (taking "initiative") are two different dynamics. An aspect to think about when taking a decision is to question the motive. For instance: Am I helping this person because she needs help, or am I helping her in order to feel good about myself?

There is another aspect to think about also: We can consider ourselves as being passively parts of the universe and the acquisition of knowledge is participating to the whole dynamics of existence. However, isolating ourselves consciously from others isn't a conscious withdrawal from participating to the universe? Isn't that a form of taking without giving? I don't pretend I have definitive answers about this question but it is interesting to consider the balance between giving and to be taken from.
Hope it helps.

 

[SMM]

A: You are all STS. If you were not, you would not be where you are.

The more I do interact with outside life I feel the more I mess things up. Except for reading and gaining knowledge this is great for my being but then when I understand the concept I try and use them in my life and interaction and it messes things up. I came across the quote from the C's just now and decided to post my thoughts that the more I do the more I STS things up. I feel like the best state for me to be in is just to acquire knowledge and use it for my own benefit. This way I avoid this STSness that is engrained in me. By learning and doing for myself I believe that is the best way for me to interact with the universe and the people in it. Sure if someone directly asks me for help and i can fulfill their request I will help but as far as taking the initiative to help I feel I shouldn't do this just interact with what's presented in front of me in the best way possible.


mod: corrected quoting

I experienced a block recently - it feels as if taking a step towards a more objective viewpoint, or realising such a viewpoint, only to hit defences from your internal 'programming'...or being mired into a subjective stance by some force. In this experience, I realised how much or aptly so STS our functioning naturally is [or at least mine]. It's as if in studying a concept [or working towards such], a sort of defence mechanism presents itself. I found observing, not resisting, to probably bring about better understanding. One of these blocks was fear..of writing this entry, or on this forum per se during the time of intense block, for fear of what other's might respond to such [i.e. not good enough/too subjective].

Another one is believing we deserve a treat, or have some right, to a situation/object/[in some instances] ideal [sounds karmic in fact]. As in, the rules innately set for ourselves reign above others. Our brains/intellect would have itself believe it's master over ourselves. It is engrained by the very fact of our physicality.

Reading and gaining knowledge is good - particularly when it comes to questioning motives. Two areas that have, for me as of late, greatly shone as areas of active 'something is going on here' are the group interactions-close relationships axis, as well as diet/lifestyle choice [consequent of group interactions etc]. I know it is hindered, or propelled, by perception of reality and it's odd how much one projects/tries to steer things without being conscious of intent [from observing].

The areas probably vary [depending on lessons] for all; actually that poses a question I'd like to ask...instead of trying to veer every action to align it to STO [which would seem an unlikely attainment until we understand the entire function of the machine], wouldn't merely observing one's actions until a determining situation arises where a STO path is intuited or known to you, and in that call, you participate in the universe and give the situation its due from your choices?

I'm not sure if I worded that right...in fact, I'm not sure I worded any of this right haha. From when I was reading Unholy Hungers, Strangers to Ourselves and The Fire from Within, I remember some concepts floating around the trans-global ether into my mind. The universe interferes as we interfere [it might happen simultaneously] so being present for interferences, "self-observing" might seem more useful than actively trying to change an outcome osit.
Until there are no two ways about said interference..and at that point, you will know [whether you listen or not is another matter maybe].

The aforementioned are ideas, very interested in hearing others' thoughts on this. As mkrnhr said:

I don't pretend I have definitive answers about this question but it is interesting to consider the balance between giving and to be taken from.

I also particularly resonate with what you wrote, Savitri C.

It helps me everytime to find out where I stand and 'fix things' if I had feeling I messed something up...
It not easy at all to beat and practise your own machine ... don't give up

On another note, I enjoy reading the input/being here greatly. Things haven't gone upside down in my brain just yet haha!
Hope this helps.

 

[Menna]

However, isolating ourselves consciously from others isn't a conscious withdrawal from participating to the universe? Isn't that a form of taking without giving?

Consciously isolating ourselves is a withdrawal from participation/interaction. Consciously not helping when asked not stepping into anothers dynamic because your not sure if you can truly help and not seeking to help is...? I believe perfecting/working on our actions is communicating/interacting with others on one level as they see what you do. Its influencing without stepping into another life.

wouldn't merely observing one's actions until a determining situation arises where a STO path is intuited or known to you, and in that call, you participate in the universe and give the situation its due from your choices?

Yes observing and being still waiting for the path is a great idea that will help you be still enough to recognize it but even if we know our machine

A: You are all STS. If you were not, you would not be where you are.

So when recognizing the path and choosing to walk it what is stopping our STS machine from "Messing things up" where it would have been best to leave it to the cosmos as they are wiser then us and being aligned towards STS one might start out on a path that is STO but along that path situations change and each situation is different and should be acted upon differently to leave STS completely out of each situation one after the other is this possible?

Im begining to think "minding your own business", doing whats in front of you to do and doing the right thing, working on yourself is the best bet and helping when asked or taking initiative helping when you think you should is more likely to do more trouble then good. At my current level this is how I feel.

Example A: If someone is walking in front of you and drops their wallet you pick it up and give it to them. I consider this doing the right thing.

Example B: Someone is suffering from a disease or trouble with a relationship with family member. You know what might help their symptoms you know some words of advice you could give to try and help better the relationship but in this type of example I am thinking its best left up to the cosmos. Lend an ear and show compassion and leave it at that.

Edit:quotes

 

[Hesper]

So when recognizing the path and choosing to walk it what is stopping our STS machine from "Messing things up"

Nothing except the Work. That's why we're machines. But we can learn from our mistakes. We can do "bad" things but learning from that is always good IMO.

where it would have been best to leave it to the cosmos as they are wiser then us and being aligned towards STS one might start out on a path that is STO but along that path situations change and each situation is different and should be acted upon differently to leave STS completely out of each situation one after the other is this possible?

Though I could be wrong, I think that you are obsessing over details and trying to take too much control or abandoning all control. I would say be simpler and take it easy on yourself.

Im begining to think "minding your own business", doing whats in front of you to do and doing the right thing, working on yourself is the best bet and helping when asked or taking initiative helping when you think you should is more likely to do more trouble then good. At my current level this is how I feel.

Helping when asked and taking initiative when not asked are two completely different things. I've really been trying to understand the "flavor" of your post, and I get the impression that there is a lot more going on than what you're saying. It seems like you're desperately trying to figure something out without actually talking about it. If that's the case, it makes for crazy making and I hope you know you can post about it freely. If not, I apologize for the noise.

 

[Renaissance]

Helping when asked and taking initiative when not asked are two completely different things. I've really been trying to understand the "flavor" of your post, and I get the impression that there is a lot more going on than what you're saying. It seems like you're desperately trying to figure something out without actually talking about it. If that's the case, it makes for crazy making and I hope you know you can post about it freely. If not, I apologize for the noise.

I'm getting a similar impression, fwiw. Every situation is different, and if you're up for it Menna, it may help to go into the specifics to get a good sense of what is going on.

 

[Laura]

It seems to me that you are making some progress simply by noticing how things respond to your actions all the while noting the ostensible reasons you take those actions. This sort of observation begins to help us to understand ourselves better and the fact that we most often have some serious egotistical ideas about how WE know so much better than the universe and we are going to fix stuff, and it usually just blows up in our face. Learning when to let things be and when to do something is an important line of work on the self. Our very natures drive us to want to help in any and all situations but we have to realize that sometimes, things are the way they are because someone else is in the process of learning a lesson that is THEIRS, not ours. Also, our idea of "the way things should be" is not necessarily the Universe's idea of same.

 

[Menna]

Hesper - Not so much about control but more so playing it safe or only doing what I know I can do right. My moral gide is better then my being right now meaning I know whats right and wrong so I can do that at all times if I so choose but as far as helping other when asked or not asked I am not confident right now that I will be able to objectivly see how to help others expecially if there is more than one person involved i cant foresee all the dynamics thats why im saying its best left up to the universe. Two quick examples are 1) At work someone didn't get a promotion he talked to me about it was upset and didnt know why. I am friends with others at work and tried to find out why. I was selfish wanted to help for my reasons because I felt bad for them and wanted to aleviate my bad feelings and theirs and was internaly considerate and put his business out in the open. Then trying to mirrior here a few months ago I didn't see the difference in situations and mirrored wrong. I am saying at my level now with my being I think its best to work on self, acomplish whats infront of me day to day, do whats right and lend an ear, compassion to others istead of trying to be the active force in others life.


Our very natures drive us to want to help in any and all situations but we have to realize that sometimes, things are the way they are because someone else is in the process of learning a lesson that is THEIRS
I see, I think it might be a little bit of my codependency that wants to overstep into their lesson and help. I need to do a better job of seeing where I end and the other person begins and leave it at that. With strangers or acquaintances sure this is an easy thing to do but with friends or family people I have related to on an emotional level/emotional center gets involved takes over and shoves the person aside tries to take the reins of their lesson and says get out of the way I got this. It’s tough for me to deeply care about someone and leave them alone to their painful lessons at the same time. Maybe this is one of my next lesson(s).

Does anyone know? Have the C’s talked about how many lessons one person can have at a time. Like is there a 5 lesson max? I know once you learn a lesson it does repeat itself in your life it just doesn’t go away but you are at the next level and can see it by being vigilant but are there more than one lesson in a persons life at the same time or is it learn one at a time then move on to the next?

 

[anart]

I see, I think it might be a little bit of my codependency that wants to overstep into their lesson and help. I need to do a better job of seeing where I end and the other person begins and leave it at that. With strangers or acquaintances sure this is an easy thing to do but with friends or family people I have related to on an emotional level/emotional center gets involved takes over and shoves the person aside tries to take the reins of their lesson and says get out of the way I got this. It’s tough for me to deeply care about someone and leave them alone to their painful lessons at the same time. Maybe this is one of my next lesson(s).

Others' lessons aren't about you. Just keep reminding yourself that it's not about you, Menna. Nothing is about you. If you could truly grasp that for even a moment, I think you'd find it infinitely liberating

Does anyone know? Have the C’s talked about how many lessons one person can have at a time. Like is there a 5 lesson max? I know once you learn a lesson it does repeat itself in your life it just doesn’t go away but you are at the next level and can see it by being vigilant but are there more than one lesson in a persons life at the same time or is it learn one at a time then move on to the next?

Since they've repeatedly said, "all there is is lessons" then how can there be a limit to the "number of" lessons. That's all there is.

 

[whitecoast]

Thanks for everyone sharing so far. menna, your musings remind me of my favorite quote from the C's:

One does not become an STO candidate by presuming to know what is best for others.

At its core, it's about developing humility, about grounding and knowing one's proper place, both in your own aims and in the lives of others.

 

[Menna]

Thanks I will have to keep this in my mentation (It's not about me)

What I mean regarding lessons is how many are ment for an individual at any time- Is there one lesson for a person to learn then another one is presented once one learns the previouse lesson or is it more open than that? Many lessons all at once for an individual to figure out varying in difficulty?

 

[Laura]

Thanks I will have to keep this in my mentation (It's not about me)

What I mean regarding lessons is how many are ment for an individual at any time- Is there one lesson for a person to learn then another one is presented once one learns the previouse lesson or is it more open than that? Many lessons all at once for an individual to figure out varying in difficulty?

Endless permutations and possibilities. It's all about developing awareness that is sharp, acute, and correct. Your survival depends on it.

 

[Menna]

Ok...Thank you for your insight

Forgot to Mention I have also heard about STA (Service to all) by working on yourself you are changing your vibration and then This indirectly has an impact on the collective conciousness of those who have it and raises the vibration of others. This was more of what I am talking about. I believe I can more effectively/objectively take steps to be STA then be STO(Helping when asked) right now at my current being. Hopefully one day I will Have the tools to be both STA/STO. For now I will continue to develop awareness