Don't get side tracked

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garethjross

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telepathy, visions, supernatural powers etc...is all very interesting but when these experiences occur don't get obsessed by them they can take you away from what is really important. At times in meditatin I've had glimpses of past karma, during the day I've seen through brick walls or picked up the phone to knowing who was on the other line and what they wanted, but none of it is important just keep training meditating not holding on to anything...these are just distractions.

(well that's what I believe anyway, and what any Zen master or buddhist monk who are worth their salt will tell you)
 
It is also one of the points made by Ibn Al'Arabi, the great Sufi teacher.

These kinds of experiences can divert people off of the path. They get caught up in phenomena, a subtle form of 'A' influences that mimic the 'B' influences, to each some terminology from the esoteric Christian tradition.

As I wrote in my recent article about Prem Rawar AKA Guru Maharaj Ji

Henry said:
Consequences of Maharaji's Teaching on an Individual's Esoteric Development

After reading through the horror story that comprises the life and teachings of the Guru Maharaj Ji, one might be tempted to think that no one could really fall for this, and if they did, certainly one day they would wake up and see the truth. When they do, they can get on with their lives and their search.

Would it were so easy. Unfortunately, engaging in the wrong work, especially over a long period of time, can have extremely damaging effect on one's potential for esoteric development. To explain why, we will need to go into the basics of our personality structure.

We are not integrated. There are many different little 'I's within us, struggling to be heard and to have their way. The tradition gives us the image of a container filled with iron filings. Give the vessel the slightest nudge and the filings change position. So it is in our inner lives. We are constantly changing from one moment to the next. The goal of esoteric work is through the fire of our work and conscious suffering to fuse these filings into a solid whole, the real 'I'.

However, if we become strongly identified with anything before this fusion occurs, lumps can form in the cup, lumps where small numbers of the iron filings have fused together. The Personality is no longer fluid in these areas. It is solid. The trouble is that such a partial fusion will prevent a later complete fusion. Once a lump is formed, further esoteric progress can only be made by going back and breaking it up. The shocks needed to do so are extremely painful as large and important parts of our lives must be put into question. Whatever it is that we have so identified with that it has created the lump must be analysed, understood, seen for what it is, and discarded.

Worse, if the lump is strong enough and the influence which led to its creation is active in one's life for long enough, a black magnetic centre can be formed within the individual. Boris Mouravieff, in his work Gnosis, describes the formation of the black magnetic centre this way:

black_centres.jpg


This figure, with black magnetic centres, represents the situation where man deludes himself and, believing he is absorbing Esoteric influences and making the necessary selection all the while, he in fact absorbs Deception influences, those of the black arrows that are in some way parallel to the white arrows of the Esoteric influences. This will put him into contact with people who possess magnetic centres of the same nature: who are themselves duped or who dupe others, and who have no direct or indirect link with the esoteric Centre.

To understand Mouravieff's comment on "believing he is absorbing Esoteric, or 'B' influences and making the necessary selection all the while, he in fact absorbs Deception, or'A' influences, those of the black arrows that are in some way parallel to the white arrows of the 'B' influences", one needs to study the following diagram:

influences.jpg


Here we see many small, black arrows pointing in many different directions. The large white arrows are all pointing in the same direction. The small, black arrows represent the influences of the material world, what Mouravieff calls the 'A' influences: sex, success, money, riches, etc. The white arrows represent the 'B' influences, that is influences that put us in touch with our higher nature.

Black arrows are those 'A' influences that mimic or appear to go in the same direction as the 'B' influences. However, they are false teachings, teachings such as that of the Maharaji that lead the person further into that which he believes he is attempting to escape. They move the person towards the 'A' influences under cover of moving him or her towards the 'B' influences.

This problem can result in a magnetic alignment with the Entropic force. Under such an influence, real 'B' influences will be seen as 'A' influences. Remembering back to our discussion of gnosis above, the metaphysical reality is not seen. The veil is not pierced.

There is little or no hope for individuals so aligned, at least in this life.
Although Prem Rawat was taken as the subject of this article, his ideas are common enough. In fact his so-called "Knowledge" is one of the experiences that can waylay people.
 
Gareth wrote:

telepathy, visions, supernatural powers etc...is all very interesting but when these experiences occur don't get obsessed by them they can take you away from what is really important. At times in meditatin I've had glimpses of past karma, during the day I've seen through brick walls or picked up the phone to knowing who was on the other line and what they wanted, but none of it is important just keep training meditating not holding on to anything...these are just distractions.


Hold on to supernatural experiences? No. What I DO is note them, study them, document them and the processes that led up to the experiences. Could they be indications that reality around you is starting to shift? Possibly. I agree that you should hold on to NOTHING (my own idea of what STO is all about.). But distractions? I'm not so sure.
There is a fine line that need be tread here.
Personally I think it one of the flaws of Zen Buddism. Of ignoring all stimulus around you as a distraction. Of striving for emptiness. All those little arrows in Mouravieff's diagram are LESSONS. They are there to strengthen my understanding of what I am striving for. Each time I SEE an arrow I learn how I function or how those around me function. I then get a better understanding of functioning. Ignoring them is just as pointless, to me, as getting caught up in them. If I ignore them, then I won't know how to deal with BIGGER , more COMPLEX arrows when they come about.
I think its the main reason there is so little understanding of these 'supernatural' experiences. On one hand we have folk saying 'ignore them, their not important' and on the other side we have folk willing to accept any twinge in thier head as some sign from the gods.
Neither way appeals to me. Truth is not that cut and dry.
Both the concepts of Buddism and the theories of Mouravieff are flawed. If they WEREN'T, they would never be allowed to propagate. And it's the nature of STS to distract you, especially when your on the right track.
 
Like most of us I presume, I find thought, experience, unusual intuition etc to be occasionally extremely fascinating but at other times, all knowledge to be pretty besides the point. Cognition itself being a step down from simple pure awareness. A line from somewhere comes to mind, "Why dost thou prate(speak) of God. Everything you can say is false."
 
Part of the higher-dimensional negative pattern of Stalking has to do with imposing and stressing such a capability-disparity, turning up the pressure through fear-reaction (of an invasion threat etc.) so as to drive the targeted subjects toward deeper and progressively irreversible degrees of Negative polarization, i.e. driving them to commit a succession of acts - with their consequences - out of preservational self-concern that requires certain ratios of psychic balance inscribing threshold degrees of consolidative mind/body "intensity" to the negative side upon the summary soul-record.

Indeed the pressure that pushes them to investigate more deeply, to experiment the more thoroughly with wanton disregard for anything aside from their immediate results, is precisely responsible for having driven open the devoutly secularized eyes of the scientific "elite" to the prospect of rethinking conventional wisdom on the subjects of psychism, the traditional avenues of metaphysics and the arcane knowledge etc. - for while it is persuasively there, in those shuttered rooms and side-corridors of the current scientific edifice that the prevailing potencies are certainly to be claimed, it is there also that the altogether-greater potential for higher density consolidation of either positive or negative kind may be directly engaged in the form of a temptingly mischievous mind-power. Thus the "Orions" unerringly herd their targeted Earth elite straight toward those doors containing the kinds of elements that can "do the most damage".
 
garethjross said:
(well that's what I believe anyway, and what any Zen master or buddhist monk who are worth their salt will tell you)
I actually had/have the impression that buddhists are all about shutting out external reality and focusing inwards, and so, venerate such experiences. Not to say that there's anything wrong with studying the human potential beyond the mundane reality, just that we're here for a reason, which is probably not to turn away from the world while we're busy contemplating the meaning of existance and trying to achieve supernatural "powers". I mean really, what's the point then? The irony is that we might be missing out on the real answer to the "meaning of life" by turning inwards and spending our lives contemplating it. I think that's kinda funny actually :D
 
I think that misguidence can easily be avoided simply if you do not believe anything anyone says, but do the work to figure *everything* out yourself. Having someone else give you the path, will only lead to failure. Forging your own path, and you may get some where.

Supernatural powers? If anyone has anything like that, there is a guy who will pay you a million dollars to prove anything 'super human.'
 
aprilfool said:
Supernatural powers? If anyone has anything like that, there is a guy who will pay you a million dollars to prove anything 'super human.'
And who is this guy? Please don't say James Randi.
 
I don't know, it sounds like the same guy. He's an idiot. lol

It's impossible to test someone of something out of the realm of 'normal' when the person testing is a believer in everything worldly and nothing that is not.

Still, I wish I could get that million. ;)

moonwalker said:
aprilfool said:
Supernatural powers? If anyone has anything like that, there is a guy who will pay you a million dollars to prove anything 'super human.'
And who is this guy? Please don't say James Randi.
 
ScioAgapeOmnis said:
garethjross said:
(well that's what I believe anyway, and what any Zen master or buddhist monk who are worth their salt will tell you)
I actually had/have the impression that buddhists are all about shutting out external reality and focusing inwards, and so, venerate such experiences. Not to say that there's anything wrong with studying the human potential beyond the mundane reality, just that we're here for a reason, which is probably not to turn away from the world while we're busy contemplating the meaning of existance and trying to achieve supernatural "powers". I mean really, what's the point then? The irony is that we might be missing out on the real answer to the "meaning of life" by turning inwards and spending our lives contemplating it. I think that's kinda funny actually :D
meditation is fusing yourself with the moment, calming the thoughts to see things how they really are.
 
buelltonsux said:
meditation is fusing yourself with the moment, calming the thoughts to see things how they really are.
I think meditation can help make sense of what you've seen in the world and figure things out by calming your thoughts and helping contemplation and focus, but without the data and catalysts that are provided by interacting with the world, all you have is your own imagination, not to mention a dormant emotional center. Not that most people have trouble with imagination replacing objective reality, look at how popular kundalini is lately.
 
I never really understood the zen meditation. Never quite understood what you are trying to acomplish.. some books say to focus on nothingness, while others say that "in nothingness you will find the absolute" or something like that.
 
ScioAgapeOmnis:

I actually had/have the impression that buddhists are all about shutting out external reality and focusing inwards, and so, venerate such experiences. Not to say that there's anything wrong with studying the human potential beyond the mundane reality, just that we're here for a reason, which is probably not to turn away from the world while we're busy contemplating the meaning of existance and trying to achieve supernatural "powers". I mean really, what's the point then? The irony is that we might be missing out on the real answer to the "meaning of life" by turning inwards and spending our lives contemplating it. I think that's kinda funny actually.
May be it depends on a Buddhist ? :) Some are turned inward some outward, like anybody else.

Q: So, you seem to be suggesting that the real trick is to just become non-attached to anything and anybody, do nothing, and just dissolve into nothing? No thought, no want, no do, no be, no anything!
A: If you are STS, that does not fit, but, if you did exactly that, you would reincarnate in an STO realm, where such energy does fit.
Q: But, if you have become nothing, how do you reincarnate? And, when you say 'reincarnate,' that implies being in a body!
A: You do not become nothingness.
Q: But, being incarnated means being in a body?
A: No.
Q: You mean moving into a realm that does not necessarily mean being in a body?
A: Close. But 4th density is partially physical. Does not consume nor possess.
 
I've spent a bit of time investigating Dharma as a guide away from suffering, and away from problems. It is my understanding that Indian buddahists do not feel we are individuals, but a group of thoughts. Being an individual suggests a pervasive "I" or sameness that does not change over time and we as humans do change. We are very different and are many different people from the time we are born until the time we die. Death is viewed as an eventual consequence of this chnage state.
Meditation is the spiritiual practice of training the mind through the discipline of meditation. The process involves purposely guiding ones thought to a neutral or state of nothingness in order to free your mind from compulsilvly identifying with time, outside thoughts, and feelings. (the thinking behind this is that many of our thoughts are not our own, but easily assimilated by us because we have no training in strengthening our minds and no way of controlling what comes and goes from it).
Meditation throughout ones lifetime can bring great peace to oneself because you no longer are a slave to fears, desires, the tyranny of others ect.... The buddahists feel that death is a natural part of life and should be a joyous and spiritual event. However, a person with an untrained mind may suffer during their death because the mind continues to be and can be put at ease with proper training.
One important point to note about meditating, prayer, or any other kind of ritual is that it is a time waster if if it is not being used to eliminate delusions that cloud the mind including ignorance, hate, greed ect... If the results are elimination of negative thoughts and attributes then the process is effective.
This process of strengthening the mind intuitivly seems to go along with the C's adage of knowledge protects because the ulitmate goal of meditation is to make sure your thoughts are truly your own.

The Dalai Lama has a number of wonderful books that specifically outline correct meditative processes. His web site can be accessed at http://www.dalailama.com
 
Reading through this thread somehow makes me "humming", like those Ents of Tolkien's saga.

Hummmm, hmmmmmmm. Ah...I know, whats bothering me. Promoting Buddism in a thread entitled "Don't get sidetracked" does not compute :D Hmmmmmmm
 
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