Don't know where to turn.

[Gonzo]

Hi Laststop,

I fully empathize with how you are feeling, the suffering you perceive, the shock one endures when seeing the horrors of the reality around us.

There is suffering, the type that causes misery, and then there's righteous suffering, that comes from accepting responsibility for one's lot in life and happily perseveres through such acceptance.

A gardener is responsible for his creations. He pulls the weeds so that his creations may thrive. He knows his creations owe him nothing while he happily toils to their benefit.

If karma exists, whatever responsibility you have and shirk in this life will come back in the next as a debt. In our world, debts have interest, perhaps they do in the karmic bank as well.
Before you make hasty decisions about destroying a family and creating a massive debt for yourself, I would strongly suggest you find a way to accept your responsibility with pride and joy.

Were there advice I could give about your financial situation, I would freely give it. But I suspect, as others have suggested, that it is a reflection of your life and your self-focus, which caused things "outside" to draw your attention outward, away from your egocentric perspective.

I wish you well through your difficulties and hope you are able to hear the advice and assessments that have been offered here.

Gonzo

 

[RyanX]

Hi Laststop,

Maybe it would be good for you to lift your head up from the books you are reading and try to deal with your life as it is now.

I agree - it sounds like you're dreaming while your life is falling apart around you. Hermetic teachings are doing you zero good if your life is not reflecting the knowledge. Your life is a reflection of who you are, so it's time to stop chasing dreams of 'great knowledge' and start actually taking care of the details of your day to day life. You say you are ready to move on from this life, yet your life shows that you don't even understand how to live this life successfully. How can you graduate if you don't even understand this life well enough to provide for yourself and your family? In other words, time to wake up from your dream of being a magician. Also, by diet, I specifically mean gluten, dairy and sugar - do you consume these things? If so, they are a huge issue.

Yup! I agree with this too.

Laststop, Maybe it's time to (re)read the Evil Magician story?

http://glossary.cassiopaea.com/glossary.php?id=455

There was an evil magician. He lived deep in the mountains and the forests, and he had thousands of sheep. But the problem was that the sheep were afraid of the magician because every day the sheep were seeing that one of them was being killed for his breakfast, another was being killed for his lunch. So they ran away from the magician's ranch and it was a difficult job to find them in the vast forest. Being a magician, he used magic.

He hypnotized all the sheep and suggested to them first of all that they were immortal and that no harm was being done to them when they were skinned, that, on the contrary, it would be very good for them and even pleasant; secondly he suggested that the magician was a good master who loved his flock so much that he was ready to do anything in the world for them; and in the third place he suggested to them that if anything at all were going to happen to them it was not going to happen just then, at any rate not that day, and therefore they had no need to think about it.

He then told different sheep...to some, "You are a man, you need not be afraid. It is only the sheep who are going to be killed and eaten, not you. You are a man just like I am." Some other sheep were told, "You are a lion -- only sheep are afraid. They escape, they are cowards. You are a lion; you would prefer to die than to run away. You don't belong to these sheep. So when they are killed it is not your problem. They are meant to be killed, but you are the most loved of my friends in this forest." In this way, he told every sheep different stories, and from the second day, the sheep stopped running away from the house.

They still saw other sheep being killed, butchered, but it was not their concern. Somebody was a lion, somebody was a tiger, somebody was a man, somebody was a magician and so forth. Nobody was a sheep except the one who was being killed. This way, without keeping servants, he managed thousands of sheep. They would go into the forest for their food, for their water, and they would come back home, believing always one thing: "It is some sheep who is going to be killed, not you. You don't belong to the sheep. You are a lion -- respected, honored, a friend of the great magician." The magician's problems were solved and the sheep never ran away again.'

In other words, you're dreaming of being a magician via these Hermetic teachings when, in fact, you're only a sheep. Meanwhile, your life is falling apart and you're about to become food for the Evil Magician. Time to get your head out of the books and start looking for a job, I think.

 

[deleven]

Hello laststop

Yes, you must find work. Dishwashing is a most noble endeavor. I have done this in my past and would always joyously return to it if need be. To be active in service toward others without judgment or expectation is your way out of your funk. Help your wife with the 'mundane'. There is no task beneath you. You will find great dignity in service of the most ordinary kind. You will have great stories to tell one day once you realize the lunacy of the false magician whom you now pose as. It is not even about luck, karma or misfortune. It is about what you will do in the next moment to help those around you and on their terms, not yours.

Say little. Do much. Enough said.

 

[cassandra]

Deleven, I do like the way you put that. Say little, do much. Enough said.
An excellent expression, if you will allow me to say so.
Good luck Laststop.

 

[Bricktal]

Hi Laststop,

With all of your reading, I am wondering if you have read In Search of the Miraculous by Ouspensky? If you read the forum guidelines, you will be familiar with the fact that this forum is based on 4th Way teachings, among others. And In Search of the Miraculous was written about Gurdjieff and his 4th Way teachings.

Here is something he talks about in the above mentioned book that you may find interesting, or not.

It often seems to people of the “way,” that is, of the subjective way, expecially those who are just beginning, that other people, that is, people of the objective way, are not moving. But this is a great mistake. A simple obyvatel may sometimes do such work within him that he will overtake another, a monk or even a yogi.

Obyvatel is a strange word in the Russian language. It is used in this sense of “inhabitant,” without any particular shade. At the same time it is used to express contempt or derision – “obyvatel" – as though there could be nothing worse. But those who speak in this way do not understand that the obyvatel is the healthy kernel of life. And from the point of view of the possibility of evolution, a good obyvatel has many more chances than a “lunatic” or a “tramp.” Afterwards I will perhaps explain what I mean by these two words. In the meantime we will talk about the obyvatel. I do not at all wish to say that all obyvatels are people of the objective way. Nothing of the kind. Among them are thieves, rascals, and fools; but there are others. I merely wish to say that being a good obyvatel by itself does not hinder the “way.” And finally there are different types of obyvatel. Imagine, for example, the type of obyvatel who lives all his life just as the other people round him, conscious in nothing, perhaps a good master, who makes money, and is perhaps even close-fisted. At the same time he dreams all his life of monasteries, for instance and dreams that some time or other he will leave everything and go into a monastery. And such things happen in the East and in Russia. A man lives and works, then, when his children or his grandchildren are grown up, he gives everything to them and goes into a monastery. This is the obyvatel of which I speak. Perhaps he does not go into a monastery, perhaps he does not need this. His own life as an obyvatel can be his way.

People who are definitely thinking about ways, particularly people of intellectual ways, very often look down on the obyvatel and in general despise the virtues of the obyvatel. But they only show by this their own personal unsuitability for any way whatever. Because no way can begin from a level lower than the obyvatel. This is a very often lost sight of on people who are unable to organize their own personal lives, who are too weak to struggle with and conquer life, dream of the ways, or what they consider are ways, because they think it will be easier for them than life and because this, so to speak, justifies their weakness and their inadaptability. A man who can be a good obyvatel, is much more helpful from the point of view of the way than a “tramp” who thinks himself much higher than an obyvatel. I call “tramps” all the so-called “intelligentsia” – artists, poets, any kind of “bohemian” in general, who despises the obyvatel and who at the same time would be unable to exist without him. Ability to orientate oneself in life is a very useful quality from the point of view of work. A good obyvatel should be able to support at least twenty person by his own labor. What is a man worth who is unable to do this?

From all that you have written in your last post, you seem to think that you are better than the rest of your family.

We are quite familiar with the quote by Jesus about being aware that your family can be your enemy. From what you have written, your family does not pose this threat.

It seems to me that you are wanting to run away and become a hermit so that you do not have to deal with life here and now.

As the C's have said, you can't graduate to 4th grade until you learn all of the lessons of 3rd grade.

Seem to me that is a really good book. I will put it on my purchase list. Hope to have time to read it fully in this coming summer.

 

[RyanX]

Deleven, I do like the way you put that. Say little, do much. Enough said.
An excellent expression, if you will allow me to say so.
Good luck Laststop.

I agree. Well said Deleven!

 

[Al Today]

Deleven, I do like the way you put that. Say little, do much. Enough said.
An excellent expression, if you will allow me to say so.
Good luck Laststop.

I agree this is a very important aspect of the Service to Others path.

Methinks there is another aspect to be aware of.
There are some golden nuggets to be found in the bible as found in the quote from: James 2:26 (King James Version)

For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.

This is difficult to accomplish. The Work is hard.


edit: Dang, I was looking for works without faith! I'll get back here for the result...

 

[Al Today]

edit: Dang, I was looking for works without faith! I'll get back here for the result...

My immediate reaction to this thread WAS to post the above. I have not found that exact phrase as I "remembered". Another reminder not to trust memories alone. What I do remember is "teaching" this principle in my old "preaching" sermon days. I can revive an old talk with references as to why methinks this to be true, but I will not litter in this thread. I will leave this to your thoughts and discernment.


My bad.

 

[Gonzo]

Wow, AI Today, I didn't remember that passage and had to look it up. It's quite fitting, in that it speaks to the way one can fool oneself into thinking they are righteous by their faith and belief alone, but without the righteous deeds, such faith is an illusion, and, in my case, a potential trap of complacency.
I certainly appreciated reading it.

This passage reminds me how service to others is the highest calling and anything that gets in the way of serving others should be seen as a distraction from such calling.

Self-service can also be STO, IMO, as long as it facilitates serving others. But we can easily be led astray by focussing on the acquisition of knowledge at the expense of taking charge of the rest of our lives and responsibilities. I find this balance difficult to achieve and am grateful for the reminder.

Here's the quote from the New International Version:

James 2 (from NIV)
Faith and Deeds

14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them? 15 Suppose a brother or a sister is without clothes and daily food. 16 If one of you says to them, “Go in peace; keep warm and well fed,” but does nothing about their physical needs, what good is it? 17 In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

18 But someone will say, “You have faith; I have deeds.”

Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by my deeds. 19 You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that—and shudder.
20 You foolish person, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21 Was not our father Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23 And the scripture was fulfilled that says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,”[e] and he was called God’s friend. 24 You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

25 In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Gonzo

 

[Bar Kochba]

To add to what was said, my own personal philosophy is that family comes before everything. My children are my responsibility, I love them, and if the Work or anything else becomes a hindrance to my relationship with them, then that hindrance will get cut out. But, thankfully, the Work has been nothing but a blessing to the relationship simply because I can "work" in 4th way fashion from my current position in life. I don't have to go somewhere, to a monastery or mountain or whatever; the Work is best done where you are presently. Thinking that I should leave my family so I can develop my being in more "favorable" settings would be me acting selfish and lazy. I don't know if laststop can see that. And I am not so highly developed that I can objectively see that me leaving my family to persue self development will benefit them some fuzzy time in the future.
It's the here and now that counts, and just taking care of your family and responsibilities in a conscientious and joyful manner is Work. When you have that all sowed up, then other Work opportunities will open up. :)

 

[Al Today]

Gonzo & Bar Kochba, Thank You both for the support. Although I was raised in the southern baptist manner of fire and brimstone and traveled through latter day saints I thought kinda new agey compared to the prior, I have always been a driven seeker. When the NIV edition came out, I thought to myself, "Another Translation".?.?.? wtf. And in the last round of controlled religion there was one of their principles I did basically benefit from at the time and did enjoy, although miss-leading, was "Families are Forever". In my youth, my ole grandmother used to tell me "That devil is gonna wrap his tail 'round your neck and draaaggg you down to hell. It's gonna be so hot there your gonna want a drink and he's gonna give you a cup of molten lava to drink".!.!.! WHEW...
Sorry, I digress, couldn't help myself... :D :D :D