Dreams

[Kila]

I would like to post several dreams I have had as well as some my children have had and my grandparents. These are all relatively recent dreams occurring within the last few years.

According to the traditions I was raised in we have always payed a great deal of attention to dreams both those occuring while asleep and those while awake which might be called visions. Most of our traditional ceremonies are really tools to alter consciousness, to increase awareness. This has been corrupted over time and made ineffectual. But just for the sake of background let me explain a couple. The hamblecia or vision quest, is not something that is done just once as is sometimes believed but is a tool used throughout ones life to access ...information for lack of better word. It involves isolation and fasting, where one seeks a vision. The inipi or sweat lodge serves a similar purpose, without going into all of the ceremonial detail, essentially it breaks down like this: First the tobacco is smoked(to heighten awareness) the participant has been fasting often for several days, then enters a small dome shaped completely darkened structure(wikiup or lodge) hot rocks are brought in, so there are small points of light, there is drumming and singing of specific songs. Inside this lodge awareness is magnified, visions occur, information is gained.
This was the original purpose of these ceremonial tools... today most of this has been lost and I frequently have been to lodges that I call "get hot and pray to Jesus' because the participants aren't really seeking awareness or vision at all. Many I won't even attend.

That said I would like to relate an experience I had while on hamblecia. This was many years ago.. nearly twenty.
In the waking dream or vision I was climbing a hill. NOt unlike the hill I was sitting out on, except it was very very steep, so steep I had to almost crawl through the thick sage to reach the top. When I reached the top I came to a small clearing. In the clearing an old woman was sitting, her long white hair falling over and around her bent head so as to obscure her face. I approached her and sat down in front of her and waited. She raised her head to look at me.. and it was me, though very old, but in no way feeble. She reached out to take my hands by the wrist, her grasp was very very strong, and sharp feeling. She/I looked into my eyes and ideas, understandings were put in me, many things, and some things I don't have words for or understanding of yet. Then I looked down at my hands and her hands were talons I looked up again and huge wings unfolded and she took flight.. the one last thing reverberating in my head was the word re-member. And in that word I understood I had to remember myself, but not just remember but re-member, put my pieces together. I am now coming to understand the fullness of that thanks to the work that has been done here and I now have even more useful tools available to continue this work.

Another dream I had after my dad died:
I had to go to the spirit world to ask him an important question regarding his will which we couldn't find. I am taken on a bus. Inside the bus lots of people are going too. The conductors on the bus look like humans but they are strange with very long limbs, but they are there to help us. I get to where he is and it's like a huge college campus, we walk around and we go into a large theatre and watch a movie of his life. His siblings are there too and lots of other relatives. I want to stay but he insists I get back on the bus. HE also tells me where he hid is will.. anyway I am on the bus but I get nervous that I will miss my stop. The conductors have told me I mustn't get off until I see my city listed on this overhead screen. I am very nervous I missed it so I get off. I am in a strange town. I wander into a shop, like a curio shop, at the counter is another of the strange human like beings with long limbs fingers. She tells me to wait while she goes behind a curtain. In that moment I know I am in mortal danger and that she plans to kill/eat me. I run.. I can still see my bus and I run for everything I'm worth, the bus stops and I can almost feel the now predator like thing behind me I run and a arm pulls me on board and the door closes. I am given a stern talking too, but also reassured that my city will come up and to just be patient. It does I get off the bus and wake up.

Later I have another dream, where my dad is in the house. He says he had to come back for his blue suitcase and his material on Time. He had written a long treatise on the nature of time, after years of research. Even though he only had a third grade formal education. Anyway, her told me some other important things and said he had to go and might not be able to come back to visit me since he was going far away and was very excited that he was going to get to work on his research, there were people going to help him. He was just so happy and satisfied. Before he left, he said 'kila, before I go I need you to give me some of the blue smoke.' I was pretty confused and then I looked down at my hands and blue smoke was coming out of my palms. SO I put the blue smoke all over his body and he sighed and gave me a kiss and left with his blue suitcase. Later we found in his room his suitcase packed with his material on time, on top of his best suit.
He had died suddenly of a heart attack in the back yard. ( I later found out about reiki and was attuned)

A year later my first daughter was born. She has always had very strange dreams and feelings that I just couldn't explain based on her upbringing. I had plenty of trauma and horror growing up but she has had a stable loving family.
We lived on a farm at the time, in a 100 year old farmhouse. Lots of weird things happenned there. She was in mortal fear of one of the closets and one time she said even with the door closed the claws would stick out underneath and like long scaly fingers and claw at the carpet. We would both dream of snakes there.
Later I had a dream where I heard a car drive up and helicopters overhead, but I could also hear people talking, in my mind I was thinking I need to pretend that I'm asleep. I knew that they were doing something so that everyone was sleeping very soundly. I pretended to be asleep, and these people came into my room, in the dream they were military people, and they injected something into my right shoulder.
NOt long after this I met a woman who instantly wanted to be my best friend. It turned out she was a psychopath. SHe had multiple health issues and self destructive patterns. At one point I was giving her reiki and could see a dark being attached to her. I tried to remove that being, it was irate and aggressive. I was made to understand that it had an agreement with her, and it was true that she was in many ways unwilling to participate in the process of healing. She had told me that she frequently cut herself and often felt compelled to do that after we had worked together.
Anyway, she was a destructive force for sure. But what is more surreal is that she was determined to move to Northern New Mexico, and felt that it was destined that I would move there too. We had gone to Taos together, where I had a dream that strange lizard like crocodile things were coming out of the hotsprings.
I have been there since because, I do feel strangely drawn there, but whenever I go west of Chama I can't stop crying.

Now, this is perhaps the strangest piece of all of this and I don't talk about this with anyone really. But ever since I was a little girl I have felt a presence with me, guiding me, watching over me, comforting me at times. I had a lot of horror as a child and I have considered that this may well be just a projection, but I get really clear messages, even ...I'll admit voices.. Also during the worst of my childhood I would climb onto my roof and lay for hours at night looking up at the stars and they felt like they were my..relatives.. helping me.. telling me to be patient.. learn the lessons...(even now typing this my crazy alert is beeping loudly)

Now I will say that certain paranormal abilities run in my family along with some schizophrenia. Two aunts went insane. The other aunt who more or less chose me as her successor was sort of like the village witch or medicine women, herbalist, dreamer, and had helper spirits. I once asked her about my two crazy aunts and she said "darlin, a big man can't ride a little horse. Which is why you must above all things develop strength."
Now having said all that, after I had the weird injection dream, a few months later I was standing next to the electric wire and it felt like I was physically pushed into it, it hit right at the top of my right shoulder. It knocked me on my butt which was weird because it shouldn't have had that much voltage but we figured it must have surged.
I have also considered that this presence might be the soul of a twin brother. I used to dream him all the time. And I remember this one thing I would wake up saying... "In a place that is and was and will be we will stand hand in hand."( I have never told anyone that all all)

The story of how I found this site really goes like this. I have been very depressed lately, just so unhappy and lonely, but not in any kind of regular way, you know?
Just can hardly bear to be 'here' which is how it's felt pretty much my whole life. And, of course, I have spent years trying to figure out this whole mess, never satisfied with the easy answers. SO I'm standing outside smoking, and I can feel him pretty near and I basically say " look I just can't keep going, I have to find some others, if it's just me...then all this.. I just can't go on." And I get this very clear message to go google Human DNA matrix. WHAT? okay whatever, so I do, Cassiopaea is something like the third choice but the first I click on.

All that said, I want to share a few dreams my daughter has had. Firstly, she tends to have dreams about disasters a lot. Before Katrina, before the tsunami, she'll have a dream and pretty much within a few days my yahoo news will flash up the event.
Lately she has been dreaming about war, nuclear war to be precise. Now let me also mention, we don't have tv. She has never seen what a nuclear bomb looks like exploding. But the images are clear. And it appears to be a terrorist act, can't tell who it's orchestrated by. In the dream we live near. BUt in a lot of the dreams we are in the dream but then it happens somewhere else.
For years she has been so afraid of meteors that when she was littler she wouldn't go asleep until I promised there were not meteors coming. Now even at 11 she won't read anything about space because she says it's too scary.

Recently she woke up early in the morning and the dream was that fiery things were falling from the sky( I thought bombs) and dragons were everywhere, her dad and I were trying to get away by car when we were hit, he died instantly and I was dying telling them to run away to the woods.
FIve minutes later the 5 year old wakes up with a bad dream and says she was with her siblings in the woods and they were walking and were so tired and thirsty and a dragon kept making them walk and wouldn't let them rest.


Now here are few more dreams and visions, some of these were had by my granpa during inipi lodges.

Fire falling from the sky, the sea on fire, being in the mountains and having huge earthquakes and rifts in the earth where the earth fall away and then there is ocean.
My granpa had this very long complicated dream where suddenly nothing electric would work and he knew he had to get to the mountains in CO and everything he had to bring, down to how many lengths of rope he had to bring. My grandma has already moved up there now.

I dunno...

There is lots more but these are the most relevant pieces to the discussion here.

pilamaye(with gratitude)
kila

 

[Kila]

I'm not sure if I was clear in the above.. but I am really looking for feedback.
Particularly around the stuff about New Mexico and Colorado.

 

[shijing]

Hi Kila --

That's quite a bit to comment on, so I'm going to do so on the parts that stand out to me, and other members can do the same. With dreams, it seems to me that there are three possibilities:

1) Normal dreams, without any specific significance -- nothing really 'happened'
2) Dreams where something did happen, that could be a message or warning (from i.e. the higher self)
3) Dreams where something did happen, but which have been 'planted' for purposes of confusion

Any of your dreams could fall into category (1), theoretically. The content is very powerful and very specific, so let's assume that they could fall into either category (2) or (3) instead. If that were true, then there are two things that stand out to me -- the first is that there tends to be a general (although not exclusive) theme of invasiveness -- some sort of malicious consciousness interacting with you (and/or your kids), whether it wants to eat you, is hiding 'in the closet', attached to your former psychopathic friend, giving you an injection, or herding your kids in the woods. There are a couple dreams you describe that seem to fall into a different category (the ones with your father or your twin brother), but otherwise this seems to be an over-arching structure. Is this indicative of you having been messed with by Lizards or similar? Maybe -- its hard to be sure. Many of us probably have and we simply can't remember directly. The only way I am aware of to find out about something like that is either through meditation or regressive hypnosis -- and I don't know enough about it to say more than that, although someone with more experience may have a suggestion.

The other point that stands out is the catastrophe theme -- the nuclear war and meteors. Regarding the former, Laura has written recently (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3157.msg111332#msg111332) that she doubts that we will ever face full-scale nuclear war for the simple fact (if I understand her correctly) that it would be akin to a rancher nuking his herd of cattle, as well as because the world leaders who may appear to be opposed to each other on the surface are really linked together into the same control structure. That may not exclude smaller nuclear incidents, like dirty bombs, but it does mean that your daughter is likely not dreaming about a possible nuclear armageddon. As far as meteors go, that hits a bit closer to home, because there has been an expectation here that we are entering a comet swarm and there is likely to be real damage done to the planet at some point as a result of the earth sailing through the middle of it. Are your daughter's dreams prophetic? Maybe -- I don't know. But I do know that worrying about where to be when a cataclysm strikes (if that is one of your concerns) is considered to be third density thinking because its the soul that matters. Any of us may die in that cataclysm, as might our loved ones, but we can either grope around trying to figure out how to avoid physical death, or we can accept it as a possibility and continue to work on ourselves until fate prevents us from continuing to do so in our current third density body and environment.

In short, I don't think your dreams are insignificant, but the context in which you deal with them is crucial. In particular, its important to know the difference between categories (2) and (3) and distinguish them if at all possible (which I realize can be very tricky). I hope this helps :)

 

[Kila]

We recognize that no approximation of Truth can be taken “on faith”, rather that Unveiling of Truth is a process whereby both inner and outer data complement each other to reflect higher levels of order within the mind of the seeker. Unveiling of Truth must be validated internally and autonomously, using the critical, analytic, and synthesizing functions of mind; and the experience of universal states of consciousness based on intuitive insight and universal Conscience. However, this inner process may only achieve objective results in conjunction with the robust feedback mechanism.

In the spirit of the above, thank you very much for the response.

then there are two things that stand out to me -- the first is that there tends to be a general (although not exclusive) theme of invasiveness -- some sort of malicious consciousness interacting with you (and/or your kids), whether it wants to eat you, is hiding 'in the closet', attached to your former psychopathic friend, giving you an injection, or herding your kids in the woods.

Yes... I have noticed that also.. So, by means of verification, I am trying to sort out what may just be an effort to induce fear and what may actually be useful information. There are definitely some dark energies involved. The shift in the flavor and type of information really began when we lived in that old farmhouse. There were a lot of paranormal type events that occurred in and around that place. We didn't find this out until later, but the previous owner had shot himself in the head in the back bedroom and his son had OD'ed on heroin there as well. Incidentally, my health and finances all went to hell while living there.
So again I am just attempting to put the pieces of the puzzle together.

Now, what's interesting to me about the whole NM/CO connection is the snippets of threads I have read regarding NM and particularly Dulce being sort of the belly of the beast and getting ready to enter 4th density. I have to say I understand this very poorly. But I find it interesting that this women I knew who clearly had some sort of negative spirit attachment felt very compelled to go there. I also had another dream later where I was told and shown something like a holographic map of the area and told to go to a place called Ave Maria. As it turns out there was a settlement by that name during the early part of the last century. The last record I could dig up was in the 1920's when the last post office was in operation. From what I can determine this place was somewhere around Tierra Amarillo and Chama. I was told to go there. My feeling was not so much that it was a safe place in a physical way but rather it had spiritual significance. I also had the impression at the time that it was some sort of doorway. I had the impression that the earth was pulling apart sort of like an onion and that depending on where you were standing you could end up in an entirely different world. Now do you see why these threads on NM and 4th density have struck me and I'm trying to put the pieces together.

The other point that stands out is the catastrophe theme -- the nuclear war and meteors. Regarding the former, Laura has written recently (http://www.cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php?topic=3157.msg111332#msg111332) that she doubts that we will ever face full-scale nuclear war for the simple fact (if I understand her correctly) that it would be akin to a rancher nuking his herd of cattle,

This I agree with this completely and have read that thread and the portions around physical security. The dream she had was indicative of a 'dirty' bomb not so much all out nuclear holocaust. Where??? That is always the problem around these sorts of dreams.. there is a lot of subjective information. Also, all of the meteor dreams, well I really didn't put much stock in those..I mean what are the odds?? Until I started reading Sott and Cass. Now well, hmmmmm. For years I kept trying to find some sort of explanation for my daughters fears and nightmares, some sort of traumatic event. But quite frankly there just aren't any. I had never left her at all until she was nearly three and then only with her dad. I'm a stay at home mom, we have a relatively happy marriage. Now I am looking at these things in a completely different light.

Now, I get the point about not obsessing around survival of the physical, at the same time if you had a dream that you blew a tire on the freeway and sustained multiple injuries, it might be useful to at least check your tires in the morning for leaks? Isn't that just another aspect of increased awareness? Maybe I have this wrong.
While I understand that the main concern should be spiritual so to speak, there are still physical considerations, and as awareness increases I would assume that awareness would extend to our physical environment as well? Is that correct?

Also, I feel like I need to be helping my daughter understand and learn to control or at least not be in fear of these experiences. Just as an example, when she was about 7 she said, just casually, one day, "Mommy, you know how at night when your going to sleep you start floating up to the ceiling and you can see yourself lying in bed. I get really scared and try not to go through the roof because I'm afraid I'll get lost and not be able to get back to you."
I"m trying to figure out ways to explain these sorts of things to her. And just for the sake of clarity, I don't think she was or is coming up with this stuff based on things she is overhearing, because I don't talk about this with her dad(certainly not) or anyone else really. And certainly not before she could read. So it kind of threw me. But I answered as best I could and said "Yes, it's probably best you don't go through the roof right now because you are very young, and I don't even let you play outside by yourself right? So you have to decide you aren't going to do that right now okay?" That satisfied her.

I do appreciate the feedback

 

[shijing]

Now, what's interesting to me about the whole NM/CO connection is the snippets of threads I have read regarding NM and particularly Dulce being sort of the belly of the beast and getting ready to enter 4th density....Now do you see why these threads on NM and 4th density have struck me and I'm trying to put the pieces together.

Yes, I do -- this is something that I have thought about myself since I live in Arizona, which is sort of in the same neighborhood. The Dulce stuff is really specific, though -- and while I don't know what to say about it, the Ave Maria part is very intriguing.

Now, I get the point about not obsessing around survival of the physical, at the same time if you had a dream that you blew a tire on the freeway and sustained multiple injuries, it might be useful to at least check your tires in the morning for leaks? Isn't that just another aspect of increased awareness? Maybe I have this wrong.

While I understand that the main concern should be spiritual so to speak, there are still physical considerations, and as awareness increases I would assume that awareness would extend to our physical environment as well? Is that correct?

Yes, I agree with you about all of the above (and in case I gave you this impression, I didn't feel that you were in error in your previous post, I just wanted to bring this point up for clarity). I think that as long as you have your priorities straight, it makes perfect sense to pay attention to what is going on here in the physical 3D world -- you are able to be of service to others much more effectively when you stay alive ;)

Also, I feel like I need to be helping my daughter understand and learn to control or at least not be in fear of these experiences. Just as an example, when she was about 7 she said, just casually, one day, "Mommy, you know how at night when your going to sleep you start floating up to the ceiling and you can see yourself lying in bed. I get really scared and try not to go through the roof because I'm afraid I'll get lost and not be able to get back to you."

I"m trying to figure out ways to explain these sorts of things to her. And just for the sake of clarity, I don't think she was or is coming up with this stuff based on things she is overhearing, because I don't talk about this with her dad(certainly not) or anyone else really. And certainly not before she could read. So it kind of threw me. But I answered as best I could and said "Yes, it's probably best you don't go through the roof right now because you are very young, and I don't even let you play outside by yourself right? So you have to decide you aren't going to do that right now okay?" That satisfied her.

I think you handled that wonderfully -- it can be an interesting challenge how to deal with a situation where your child experiences something that they 'shouldn't' from the perspective of consensus reality, and a great way to start is by not making them feel stigmatized for reporting an experience like that or denying it. Well done :)

 

[RGG]

Also, I feel like I need to be helping my daughter understand and learn to control or at least not be in fear of these experiences. Just as an example, when she was about 7 she said, just casually, one day, "Mommy, you know how at night when your going to sleep you start floating up to the ceiling and you can see yourself lying in bed. I get really scared and try not to go through the roof because I'm afraid I'll get lost and not be able to get back to you."

I"m trying to figure out ways to explain these sorts of things to her. And just for the sake of clarity, I don't think she was or is coming up with this stuff based on things she is overhearing, because I don't talk about this with her dad(certainly not) or anyone else really. And certainly not before she could read. So it kind of threw me. But I answered as best I could and said "Yes, it's probably best you don't go through the roof right now because you are very young, and I don't even let you play outside by yourself right? So you have to decide you aren't going to do that right now okay?" That satisfied her.

I think you handled that wonderfully -- it can be an interesting challenge how to deal with a situation where your child experiences something that they 'shouldn't' from the perspective of consensus reality, and a great way to start is by not making them feel stigmatized for reporting an experience like that or denying it. Well done
Posted on: Today at 12:42:28 PM Posted by: Kila

When I read the above it sounded a bit like Astral -travelling to me is that considered bad?? I was under the impression that it was a natural occurrence.

 

[RedFox]

Hi Kila
I'd like to pick up on not so much what you've experienced, but more so the flavour that runs through it and your daughters experiences.
When I arrived here I also had questions about many strange and mostly frightening experiences/dreams I use to have mostly before arriving here, and mostly as a kid (so I can totally relate to what your daughter is going through).
The theme that ran through my dreams (and quite a few experiences) was one of terror. It didn't matter the nature of the dream, or what actually happened in it, it always ended in me terrified. One of my first posts here was to do with a long running experience with something being 'attached' to me as well.

The direction I was pointed in was that of the recommended psychology books. This didn't answer my questions or allay my fears at the time! But I went with it....just to remind you the Big 5 psychology books are:

You'll also find frequent references on the forum to the "Big Five" psychology books, which are extremely helpful tools towards acquiring a basic understanding of your own "machine". Should you decide to explore those books at some point in the future, Laura suggests that they be read in the following order: The Myth of Sanity by Martha Stout; The Narcissistic Family by Stephanie Donaldson-Pressman & Robert M. Pressman; Trapped in The Mirror by Elan Golomb; Unholy Hungers by Barbara Hort; and In Sheep's Clothing by George K. Simon.

Having mostly read them all now I can say that it was the best advice I received.....not because these things didn't happen (they most definitely did), but because its given me the stability/clarity to be able to finally deal with them, and let them go. I no longer need (or want) these terrors in my life.....that's not to say I don't have these things still happen occasionally, it just means I can step back and look at them objectively and not get sucked into feeling too much terror. I also don't invest myself into them.
This is a big point actually, learning not to identify yourself with your experiences, and untangle yourself from identifying past experiences (have a search for 'recapitulation' on the forum).
Being more confident and self assured by knowing myself better through applying what I have read in those books and observed in myself, has given me the ability to take life (and the weirdness in life) in my stride (or more so than before). If you do the same you should also note that your daughters dreams may change for the better, as she takes her strength from you (at least this is my understanding at the moment).

Another topic that may be useful in regards to all this is that of the Dark Man dream.
Here is a quote about Dark Man dreams from the wave series (from My Weirdest Dream thread).

At that point, I could have plunged back into denial, into the old belief system, for the sake of peace and keeping everything stable, but I had a dream that clearly told me that I was in mortal danger if I did not take immediate action. It was the standard "Dark Man Dream" as described by Clarissa Pinkola Estes, a Jungian psychologist, who uses ancient tales as maps to chart our unconscious knowing in her book Women Who Run With The Wolves.

"The natural predator of the psyche is not only found in fairy tales but also in dreams. There is a universal initiatory dream, one so common that it is remarkable if a person has reached age 25 without having had such a dream. The dream usually causes the person to jolt awake, striving and anxious. The dream usually involves being in a house with danger outside or darkness outside. The dreamer is frightened and frantically tries to obtain assistance. Suddenly, they realize the danger is virtually on top of them, or right with them, or cannot be overcome or avoided, or that they have lost. The dreamer awakens instantly, breathing hard, heart pounding.

"There is a strong physical aspect to having a dream of the predator. The dream is often accompanied by sweats, struggles, hoarse breathing, heart pounding, and sometimes crying and moans of fear. We could say the dream-maker has dispensed with subtle messages to the dreamer and now sends images which shake the neurological and autonomic nervous system of the dreamer, thereby communicating the urgency of the matter.
"The antagonists of the 'dark dream' are, in people's own words, 'terrorists, rapists, thugs, concentration camp Nazis, marauders, murderers, criminals, creeps, bad men, thieves.' There are several levels to the interpretation of the dream..."

"Often such a dream is a reliable indicator that a person's consciousness is just beginning to gain awareness of the innate psychic predator...."

"The dream is a harbinger; the dreamer has just discovered or is about to discover and begin liberating a forgotten and captive function of the psyche.

"The dark man dream tells a person what predicament they are facing. The dream tells about a cruel attitude toward the dreamer. Like Bluebeard's wife, the dreamer can consciously gain hold of the 'key' question about this matter and answer it honestly, and can then be set free. ...

"The dark man appears in dreams when an initiation - a psychic change from one level of knowing and behavior to another more energetic level of knowledge and action is imminent. The initiation creates an archway which one prepares to pass through to a new manner of knowing and being....

"Dreams are 'portales,' entrances, preparations, and practices for the next step in consciousness.

"Dark man dreams are wake-up calls. They say: Pay attention! Something has gone radically amiss in the outer world. ....The threat of the 'dark man dreams' serves as a warning to all of us -- if you don't pay attention, something will be stolen from you! The dreamer needs to be initiated so that whatever has been robbing her can be recoginzed, apprehended, and dealt with.

"In the Bluebeard story we see how a woman who falls under the spell of the predator rouses herself and escapes him, wiser for the experience. The story is about transformation through knowledge, insight, voice, decisive action. We must unlock the secrets and use our abilities to be able to stand what we see. And then, we must use our voice and our wits to do what needs to be done about what we see. When instincts are strong, we intuitively recognize the innate predator by scent, sight, and hearing... we anticipate its presence, hear it approaching, and take steps to turn it away. In the instinct-injured (i.e. nuts and bolts person) the predator is upon them before they register its presence. We have been taught to be nice, to behave, to be blind, and to be misused. [We have been hypnotized to give up our flesh and skins.]

"The young and the injured are uninitiated. Neither knows much about the dark predator and are, therefore, credulous. But, fortunately, when the predator is on the move, it leaves behind unmistakable tracks in dreams. These tracks eventually lead to its discovery, capture and containment.

"Wild Ways teaches people when not to act 'nice' about protecting their souls. The instinctive nature knows that being 'sweet' in these instances only makes the predator smile. When the soul is being threatened, it is not only acceptable to draw the line and mean it, it is required."

Another book that may be of help in regard to all this as well is Women Who Run with the Wolves: Contacting the Power of the Wild Woman by Clarissa Pinkola Estes.
Good luck! :)

 

[shijing]

When I read the above it sounded a bit like Astral -travelling to me is that considered bad?? I was under the impression that it was a natural occurrence.

I think it may be a natural occurrence when we are sleeping, although it is unusual for someone to recall this kind of experience consciously without having trained themselves to do it first -- I understand that it can be related to trauma, although I don't think that is automatically true for every situation. In general it isn't bad per se, but the point I was making is that it is not part of consensus reality, so the average parent might be tempted to tell the child that it was in their imagination (thereby not validating the experience) or otherwise freak out because they were unaware of the phenomenon or had misconceptions about it (thereby causing unnecessary anxiety in the child). I was applauding Kila for doing neither of these things, and for acknowledging her daughter's experience while still providing a message that established a boundary around it, and in so-doing preventing anxiety on her daughter's part (it may be fine for her daughter to 'go through the roof', but she seemed to feel worried about the possibility of doing so).

 

[Kila]

Just wanted to post back quickly and say I am busy reading the recapitulation thread I was pointed to.. Thank you.. and I do have a few more questions I'll get to post later I hope......after work.. and after bedtimes..

 

[Voyageur]

Not mentioned in the thread but of possible interest; it sure was to me as originally described and quoted by Laura (thank you), is the small book by T.C. Lethbridge ‘The Power of the Pendulum . Dreams are of note in this book as well as impressions/memories from matter – places, objects, stones etcetera. In this context are dreams influenced by places and even things?

Lethbridge along with his wife conducted years of experiments using a Pendulum; length/rate analysis of many things and places. Details of dreams are pondered with drawings of what was remembered and the sequences of the dreams. There is a lot more in this book for consideration which may help along these lines.

Note: There are a number of references in the Forum (search) on Lethbridge for ancillary information.
:)

 

[Kila]

Firstly, thanks to all for your thoughtful replies..
I hope I can put these questions together in an easy to understand way.

Firstly, let's assume for a moment that I have been 'messed' with so to speak. How would I deal with that, how else might it manifest? How could I get to the other side of that? I am assuming that the more I know the more 'problematic' I become to our mutual keepers.

Another event happened the other night. I have decided to share some of this with my oldest daughter. As I'm telling her a few things about the nature of our world, she's nodding her head and saying "yes, mom I already knew all that, I'm glad you figured it out too."
She shared something else, that for some time, ever after she had a surgery for appendicitis about two years ago, that sometimes at night these black shadowy figures come to her and try to convince her to hurt other people. Specifically, she has always been very sensitive, empathetic to other people to the point of really knowing what was going on. I swear sometimes she can read my mind. These Shadowy things were trying to convince her to somehow increase this ability and use it to control or harm other people. She said she was very afraid for a while that she would sleep walk and harm us. I remember at that time she asked me to put different child locks on all the knife drawers even though her little brother couldn't open them.
Finally, she just told them I'm not afraid of you and I'm not going to do what you say, go away. And that seemed to work.
But as we continued talking and I was telling her more, and that knowledge protects, she said "Be careful mom, they're listening right now" And even before she said that I had suddenly felt very cold and afraid. Nonetheless I continued reiterating that this is exactly the response they hope to elicit and that we must continue to educate ourselves and develop the strength to resist the emotional attacks, which she is particularly susceptible to it seems.

The wierdness factor of all of this is extremely high obviously, and I appreciate all the insight I can gather regarding these types of events.

How to proceed from here?


Assuming that there is this sort of influence, and we are just simply delicious every time some event or dream like this takes place, then I can see the path through is knowledge and will.
However, if there is some actual awareness that is trying to manifest and these 'things' are acting out to muddy the waters so to speak then it becomes much more difficult to tease it all apart. And the only way I can see to do that is by comparison and verification. So there are a few possibilities. Obviously, Shannon is wired a little different than some, such that these feelings dreams could be simply emanating from her own psyche in which case, I will continue reading the big 5. Or it could be that because she is wired the way she is it makes her more yummy, susceptible, to those things out there that like to screw with us.

I would like some more information around the the whole NM connection. If someone could point me to the relevant threads I would appreciate that.

Now in terms of recapituation.. I'll say I am still wrapping my head around all of that. Castaneda has always been hard for me. It seems like he uses a lot of words when less would do.

Having mostly read them all now I can say that it was the best advice I received.....not because these things didn't happen (they most definitely did), but because its given me the stability/clarity to be able to finally deal with them, and let them go. I no longer need (or want) these terrors in my life.....that's not to say I don't have these things still happen occasionally, it just means I can step back and look at them objectively and not get sucked into feeling too much terror. I also don't invest myself into them.
This is a big point actually, learning not to identify yourself with your experiences, and untangle yourself from identifying past experiences (have a search for 'recapitulation' on the forum).
Being more confident and self assured by knowing myself better through applying what I have read in those books and observed in myself, has given me the ability to take life (and the weirdness in life) in my stride (or more so than before). If you do the same you should also note that your daughters dreams may change for the better, as she takes her strength from you (at least this is my understanding at the moment).

I believe that what you are saying is true and that is my objective here. To step back and look at these events objectively without internalizing some sort of meaning about myself or my daughter. I'll admit that is difficult and your help has been greatly appreciated. At the same time I don't want to simply dismiss these things as simple psychological constructs without careful analysis. I believe that complete understanding of what's happening is necessary to mitigate the emotional response without simply suppressing the emotional response, such as "Oh honey it's just a bad dream, it's not real." Maybe that's true and then again maybe it isn't. So what I'm looking for is some sort of measuring stick by which to make those sorts of assessments.
Regardless I can see the point in not 'identifying' with it, regardless of the source that only lends it more power and influence being granted.

I have read Women Who Run With Wolves. It was hugely influential at the time as I was going through a divorce with my own 'Bluebeard'.

Shannon has had 'dark man' dreams which are pretty obvious and classic: being chased through dark woods and stabbed by bad men, being lost in a dark house and pursued by something, a time bomb ticking under our house, things like that.

 

[Buddy]

I once asked her about my two crazy aunts and she said "darlin, a big man can't ride a little horse. Which is why you must above all things develop strength."

Hi Kila. I'm curious about the answer you received from that aunt referred to above. What is the point of view of that statement? In other words, what is "a big man" and "a little horse" in this context? Considering the nature of the question, I would have thought the answer might be something like:

"darlin, a LITTLE man can't ride a BIG horse. Which is why you must above all things develop strength."

From that, I would have gathered that without a certain level of BEing, "confronting Infinity" (in terms of Casteneda's Warriors), would simply have been too overwhelming to survive the experience intact. The strength needed then, would be knowledge and experience to be protected from any permanent harm from paranormal (or other) experiences.

 

[RedFox]

Firstly, let's assume for a moment that I have been 'messed' with so to speak. How would I deal with that, how else might it manifest? How could I get to the other side of that? I am assuming that the more I know the more 'problematic' I become to our mutual keepers.

Check out the cassiopedia entry on Strategic Enclosures for more info on that....the idea is to not draw attention to yourself by not rocking the boat for/with others. Our 'keepers' may well be aware of all that we do....so what? :P What is important to focus on is what we can change, and that is ourselves.

She shared something else, that for some time, ever after she had a surgery for appendicitis about two years ago, that sometimes at night these black shadowy figures come to her and try to convince her to hurt other people. Specifically, she has always been very sensitive, empathetic to other people to the point of really knowing what was going on. I swear sometimes she can read my mind. These Shadowy things were trying to convince her to somehow increase this ability and use it to control or harm other people. She said she was very afraid for a while that she would sleep walk and harm us.

This must be very difficult for your both. fwiw I went through a similar childhood to your daughter but without the figures telling me to do things. If it helps you can read about what I've been through here.
I think finishing the Wave and Adventure series will help you see things differently too. Knowing your not alone was the first thing that helped me the most.

Assuming that there is this sort of influence, and we are just simply delicious every time some event or dream like this takes place, then I can see the path through is knowledge and will.
However, if there is some actual awareness that is trying to manifest and these 'things' are acting out to muddy the waters so to speak then it becomes much more difficult to tease it all apart. And the only way I can see to do that is by comparison and verification. So there are a few possibilities. Obviously, Shannon is wired a little different than some, such that these feelings dreams could be simply emanating from her own psyche in which case, I will continue reading the big 5. Or it could be that because she is wired the way she is it makes her more yummy, susceptible, to those things out there that like to screw with us.

That's the problem....we only have it as a working theory that these 4D STS creatures exist...as there is little 'hard' evidence (although a lot of 'soft' evidence if you look for it)....so its the best theory we have right now. That being said there is a link between our psychological/emotional/physical state and our susceptibility to their influence. So weather it is something from the psyche, or 4D STS or neither or both.....the cure seems to be the same.

Perhaps a metaphor would help here (hopefully it is accurate enough). Imagine a world where we all suffer from broken legs in childhood...this is 'normal' so no one really pays attention. More so being broken is normal and they are never set.....infact they are ignored and left to 'heal' on there own.
The only thing people know is that they hurt and that they can't walk well as adults. Some people seem to be more sensitive than others to life (because the broken leg is septic and poisoning there blood....they become over sensitive to life and even delusional with fear from being slowly poisoned)....either in the form of bacteria and parasites (that we can't see) or vultures or wolves society is plagued by these feeders looking to feed off the sick and dying (i.e. all of us). Some people notice the wolves and fear there visit (as they take chunks).....yet can't see that we are better food if we are all crippled, sick, infested with parasites and dying inside.

For us however it is not just broken bodies (poisoned from the wrong food and chemicals in out environment) that are the problem, its the broken minds and emotional traumas from childhood that are our 'broken legs'. So part of the cure (the wolves become less interested because we are less easy to eat) is to fix our 'broken legs'....heal our emotional traumas, detox our bodies and minds and hearts.
The tools for doing so we have at our disposal are doing the E-E program, reading and applying the Big 5 to our lives and the Diet and Health section (check out the UltraMind quiz) of the forum.

Focusing on classifying the wolves and parasites (beyond being able to recognise and avoid them and know how they influence us to be food) helps.....but the healing needs to be done at a practical level because that's all we have to work with.

Before finding the wave and the C's and this forum, I learnt about energy manipulation and such things to be able to protect myself from the things plaguing me. But to use the above metaphor all that does is put pillows around your broken leg!!! It doesn't make you less edible and it sure doesn't help your situation....infact it just diverts you from truly healing yourself.

I believe that what you are saying is true and that is my objective here. To step back and look at these events objectively without internalizing some sort of meaning about myself or my daughter. I'll admit that is difficult and your help has been greatly appreciated. At the same time I don't want to simply dismiss these things as simple psychological constructs without careful analysis. I believe that complete understanding of what's happening is necessary to mitigate the emotional response without simply suppressing the emotional response, such as "Oh honey it's just a bad dream, it's not real." Maybe that's true and then again maybe it isn't. So what I'm looking for is some sort of measuring stick by which to make those sorts of assessments.
Regardless I can see the point in not 'identifying' with it, regardless of the source that only lends it more power and influence being granted.

This is something that can take a while to learn. Rather than dismiss these things or give them importance (invest yourself and your emotions in them), simply note them down somewhere and move on. It is that middle ground between ignoring and fully identifying with the events.
Acknowledge them without giving them great emotional importance/significance. Watch and listen without fixation, obsession or identification with what you see and hear. This can be hard to do with 'broken legs' causing your pain (trapped emotions).

This brings me to something I'd like to observe about your posts in this thread so far. I may be mistaken but I sense (and this is subjective) a lot of fear in your posts...hidden beneath the surface.
So doing the E-E breathing (perhaps avoiding the bio-energetic/round breathing to start with), but more importantly doing the Prayer of the Soul every night may be your best starting point in regards to healing (thus freeing) yourself.

I have read Women Who Run With Wolves. It was hugely influential at the time as I was going through a divorce with my own 'Bluebeard'.

Perhaps then a good way to think of these things is to treat them as cosmic bluebeards and nothing more. Petty and manipulative and inflicter's of suffering.....and nothing more.

Be gentle and kind with yourself and your daughter Kali. You are both hurt and in pain, so take time out and breath and heal.

 

[Kila]

Hi Kila. I'm curious about the answer you received from that aunt referred to above. What is the point of view of that statement? In other words, what is "a big man" and "a little horse" in this context? Considering the nature of the question, I would have thought the answer might be something like:

"darlin, a LITTLE man can't ride a BIG horse. Which is why you must above all things develop strength."

The spirit helper is the man and we are the horse. My other two aunts, were shall we say to psychologically fragile, so while their 'big men' may have arrived the horse was inadequate and subsequently broken.

From that, I would have gathered that without a certain level of BEing, "confronting Infinity" (in terms of Casteneda's Warriors), would simply have been too overwhelming to survive the experience intact. The strength needed then, would be knowledge and experience to be protected from any permanent harm from paranormal (or other) experiences.

Yes, though we are coming from different frames of reference and I am trying to catch up as quickly as I can here, I would say that essentially the above is correct.
Although, my sense was that beyond cultivating will and a certain toughness or resiliency of mind, and certainly knowledge of the spirit world as well, there was also something just inherent in the wiring that had to be present.

About the spirit world, I was always told that while there isn't necessarily evil, some things are evil. For instance, wolves are not inherently evil, but if your a rabbit then for you they are an evil since you happen to be very tasty. So when one travels the spirit paths one must always remember that we are just cute scrumptious little swamp rabbits. (in fact we used to have one for dinner at least once a week)
So, I have always appreciated Laura and her consistently good advice in this regard. It is shockingly absent from most out there claiming to do this work.

Let me also say my aunt died several years ago, she was born in 1909. My mom was last of the nine kids born in 1930. I was born in 1970. Anyway all my immediate family is dead. So I am very grateful for you all here.
Oh one other thing, when I refer to moms and granmas and such, by Cherokee standards everyone in my extended family is either a brother/sister, mother/father, grandma/granpa cousin or aunt/uncle.. and aunts and uncles are really like parents in many ways.. so the orphans are pretty well covered.

 

[Kila]

Perhaps a metaphor would help here (hopefully it is accurate enough). Imagine a world where we all suffer from broken legs in childhood...this is 'normal' so no one really pays attention. More so being broken is normal and they are never set.....infact they are ignored and left to 'heal' on there own.
The only thing people know is that they hurt and that they can't walk well as adults. Some people seem to be more sensitive than others to life (because the broken leg is septic and poisoning there blood....they become over sensitive to life and even delusional with fear from being slowly poisoned)....either in the form of bacteria and parasites (that we can't see) or vultures or wolves society is plagued by these feeders looking to feed off the sick and dying (i.e. all of us). Some people notice the wolves and fear there visit (as they take chunks).....yet can't see that we are better food if we are all crippled, sick, infested with parasites and d :) :) :) :)ying inside.