Ellen White

[Elly Kay]

Dave,

When we stop for a moment and look at when this was written, just what was the predominant programing of that time-period in regards to race?

I assure you, that although there have been gains in civil liberties in North America, racism is still alive and well. It functions as a divisive tactic to fraudulently support socio-economic divides and to maintain power, regardless of time. Your argument that racist ideologies are a thing of the past can be used to obfuscate the very reality of racism in the present. If you are concerned with programs, it may be something worth looking into.

I agree that Ellen White's status as a woman of mixed heritage in a profoundly racist and white supremacist society had an effect on her writings. What is important to understand from the above citations from her writings is that through her writing/prophecy, she has sanctioned segregation and racism by claiming that God condones it.

In effect, it is divinely ordained. This gives power to people whom already subscribe to master race beliefs and justifies the actions taken by them. Here I am speaking of Kellogg's support of eugenics and his alliance with Charles Davenport. Now, not only does eugenics have the support of the medical and scientific establishment, it also has religious support.

To attempt to understand why someone does what they do is important, in the end, the harm done is the crux - intended or not.

I fully agree!

 

[Mountain Crown]

This isn’t just a case of one person’s cultural programs. Let’s not forget her life as a leader of others claiming God his almighty self says that black people were less than white people, even the “amalgamation of man and beast!”

This is a social phenomenon, where there is always the need for discernment, and where conscience recognizes the need for accountability.

Pathology loses influence on its judgment day.

 

[FireShadow]

I would like to thank both you and Truth Seeker for pointing out discernment and judgment. No I did not realize the distinction, and now I am going to have to find out what that distinction is.

Dave.

I think this is a good place to start:

While it is important that we do not judge, it is important to hone our skills in discernment. I think to go from judgement to non judgement is really two sides of the same coin. Both leave us open to subjectivity and entropy. To discern however is to rightly place a value on a person or situation. To attempt to understand why someone does what they do is important, in the end, the harm done is the crux - intended or not. Discernment falls more in line with seeing things as they are (objectivity) - to take into account the whole of a situation. For what it's worth.

I think maybe discernment is the "Third Alternative" so to speak, bypassing the judgement/non-judgement issue. Part of the problem here on this planet is that we are so very often offered only a choice between two things - like dominion/slavery - either one you pick is a trap. Finding the "Third Alternative" is the key (osit).

 

[CrimsonEagle]

Dave,

When we stop for a moment and look at when this was written, just what was the predominant programing of that time-period in regards to race?

I assure you, that although there have been gains in civil liberties in North America, racism is still alive and well. It functions as a divisive tactic to fraudulently support socio-economic divides and to maintain power, regardless of time. Your argument that racist ideologies are a thing of the past can be used to obfuscate the very reality of racism in the present. If you are concerned with programs, it may be something worth looking into.

I agree that Ellen White's status as a woman of mixed heritage in a profoundly racist and white supremacist society had an effect on her writings. What is important to understand from the above citations from her writings is that through her writing/prophecy, she has sanctioned segregation and racism by claiming that God condones it.

In effect, it is divinely ordained. This gives power to people whom already subscribe to master race beliefs and justifies the actions taken by them. Here I am speaking of Kellogg's support of eugenics and his alliance with Charles Davenport. Now, not only does eugenics have the support of the medical and scientific establishment, it also has religious support.

To attempt to understand why someone does what they do is important, in the end, the harm done is the crux - intended or not.

I fully agree!

Oh no, no, no Elly Kay....!!!!!

If I made it sound like I thought that racist ideologies were a thing of the past then I apologize deeply. That was not nor has never been my stance. I see it all the time and it really, really ticks me off because of how ignorant I believe it to be.

What I was pointing out is that during that time, the racism was much more prevalent and accepted. During that time, if I were to say to people what I say now when I hear this garbage, I would have been ostracized. Now, though I may have no way of changing them, they know enough to not state the crap when I'm around.

I'm so sorry if I made you assume otherwise. That was not what I was trying to say.

Dave

 

[Mountain Crown]

It seems to me that the proverb “judge not” has such a hold on people that there is felt a need to find a way to drop the use of the word judge entirely.

[quote author=thefreedictionary.com] judge
v. judged, judg•ing, judg•es
v.tr.
1. To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration: judge heights; judging character.
2.
a. Law To hear and decide on in a court of law; try: judge a case.
b. Obsolete To pass sentence on; condemn.
c. To act as one appointed to decide the winners of: judge an essay contest.
3. To determine or declare after consideration or deliberation.
4. Informal To have as an opinion or assumption; suppose: I judge you're right.
5. Bible To govern; rule. Used of an ancient Israelite leader.
v.intr.
1. To form an opinion or evaluation.
2. To act or decide as a judge.[/quote]

The New Testament use in the proverb is 2b) to condemn:

[quote author=thefreedictionary.com] con•demn
tr.v. con•demned, con•demn•ing, con•demns
1. To express strong disapproval of: condemned the needless waste of food.
2. To pronounce judgment against; sentence: condemned the felons to prison.
3. To judge or declare to be unfit for use or consumption, usually by official order: condemn an old building.
4. To lend credence to or provide evidence for an adverse judgment against: were condemned by their actions.
5. Law To appropriate (property) for public use[/quote]

The context for Jesus’ admonition was a group of people with murderous intent ignited by laws that justified killing their own people for acts such as sleeping with someone other than one’s spouse. He invited them to act from the truth of their own consciences, as human beings, not as machines conforming to propositions handed down by others in authority.

This is now being treated as one of those very “absolute propositions” that has the power to remove one’s humanity. It’s human to hold accountable as evil the ideas and actions that hurt and/or corrupt others and expose them. The biblical story assumes common sense in the reader, if you ask me, and didn't intend to advocate not at all responding to evil.

Using the body as an illustration, it not only discerns the presence of a pathogen, it takes action against it.

A sentence is passed because health (wholeness) is preferred over disease.

 

[obyvatel]

My current thinking is that judgment, unlike discernment, is usually accompanied by an attitude of superiority. Discerning action (like what Jerry mentioned in context of the body reacting to pathogens) involves doing what is deemed necessary without condemnation.
Reminds me of an example in one of Castaneda's books where Castaneda and Don Juan have to flee for their lives while being chased by a predator. After reaching safety, Don Juan asked Castaneda if he hated the predator and Castaneda said no. Then Don Juan said something to the effect of having the same attitude in relation to his fellow men. Sorry, I do not have the original references and am quoting from memory here.
The word judgment can conjure up the image of a judge - an eminent personage seated in a high seat and pronouncing a sentence. This could be subjective though and not necessarily captured in the intellectual meaning of the word "judge".

 

[Psalehesost]

As I see it, there are two ways to judge:

1. Examine, analyze, then conclude and/or decide.

2. Internal considering.

#1 is essential, #2 is a problem.

 

[Buddy]

FWIW, I thought I'd mention that there is not only discernment and judgment, but there is the possibility that one can judge what someone says, writes and teaches without being guilty of judging 'the person' (which is assumed to mean 'the person as a whole').

This is what we have to practice in daily life anyway. Using care, one could condemn ideas whose real ends lead to destruction or death while having compassion for the messenger, OSIT.

As it happens, my own post was poorly written. What I was actually thinking when I said '...what names she could be called' was that even from today's conventional mindset, delusional, racist, christian-hypocrite type writings can be see for what they are, OSIT. At least that's what was on my mind.

 

[monksgirl]

It's interesting that you bring up the topic of Ellen White and the Seventh Day Adventists. I was doing some reading about vegetarianism in North America and came across this group. John Harvey Kellogg, the founder of Kellogg cereal company, was a Seventh Day Adventist and created his product as a result of his spiritual beliefs.

They seem to have a particular interest in the control of health and sexuality. Apparently, Kellogg was a supporter of the eugenics movement, which doesn't surprise me at all considering how the eugenics movement became conflated with health and medicine.

A little serendipity on my end- we were just discussing yesterday my husband's grandmother, who was cured of breast cancer at the Kellogg Sanitorium in 1924. There were doctors from different medical 'schools'(Ayerveda, etc) from all over the world there, all the cures were herbal concoctions and the like from the differing disciplines. And isn't it true that dark forces will gather wherever a little light breaks through?

The reason we were discussing it was because I had gone on the Paleo diet with a sister when she visited in October, and stayed on it, though I had been on a vegan diet for 4 years, and am this week being worked up for MS. So of course, I think there is a link between the two.

 

[FireShadow]

On pondering the difference between judgment and discernment, I later had a flash - Perhaps the difference is:

Being judgmental places you in a position of being "in opposition to",
Being discerning places you in a position of "making a choice".