"Epic Fantasy" books

which felt like cartoonish "scantily clad barbarian men and women cavorting", bit of an emphasis on sex IIRC, a bit..."pulpy"
Yes, everyone's different. I didn't find them cartoonish or "scantily clad barbarian men and women cavorting...." There were no scantily clad anything. nor emphasis on sex. Have you read the romance novels? Sex is hardly brought up at all and only as dragons mating and those whose minds are connected with them getting a bit hot and bothered. There are references to people having sex, but there is nothin explicit in them.
 
Yes, everyone's different. I didn't find them cartoonish or "scantily clad barbarian men and women cavorting...." There were no scantily clad anything. nor emphasis on sex. Have you read the romance novels? Sex is hardly brought up at all and only as dragons mating and those whose minds are connected with them getting a bit hot and bothered. There are references to people having sex, but there is nothin explicit in them.
Ah, sorry, yeah I didn't mean there was anything explicit in 'em! And perhaps my mental image was influenced by the cover art of the first book I got, which has a woman wearing bikini armour.. Typical 60s type fantasy art (which is great btw). Some of my other favourite books have the same kind of artwork, like C.J. Cherryh's 'Morgaine' books.

Trying to think about why my impression was "trashy", which I meant in a very mild way, one thing is, perhaps because of my age (born in the 80s) I tend to find most mentions of sex in books from the 60s (like the first Pern books) to feel a bit what I think of as "trashy". I can't exactly describe what I mean, but the way people thought about sex and relationships in that era feels different to how I grew up thinking about it. It often feels almost transactional, or workmanlike, rather than romantic, if that makes sense. (I've read some of the Romance novels yeah, only Mary Balough ones so far...very different).. There are plenty books from that era I love though, it's not something that makes me dislike them. Another thing is, maybe I was projecting and Dragonflight etc felt like it was meant to be titillating *because* I was titillated at the time, and it's me who's "trashy" :) I dunno. Anyway, now I want to read those again and see how I find them now.
 
If you like his work, there's also the Stormlight Archive, starting with The Way of Kings. I enjoyed that series a lot! More so than Mistborn. But I'll check out some of your recommendations if I eventually finish reading the Wheel of Time series. Only 4 more books left to go...

The Stormlight archive by Brandon Sanderson is really epic - i enjoyed it immensely and my favorite character is Kaladdin. The 5th book (Wind & Truth) was out recently, and it was quite good as well. However i think the PTB "took control" due to the popularity of the series and some characters in the book changed a bit with the woke treatment in the 5th book. Nonetheless, I fully recommend it. Also Brandon Sanderson was the author that was chosen by Robert Jordan's wife to finish the last 3 books of the Wheel of time series - and i recall reading is that they were impressed with his earlier fantasy work including the Mistborn series.

About Robert Jordan - more than the Wheel of Time (i have read all books) i found his life story amazing. He actually served in Vietnam :

When he was twenty, he went to Vietnam where he served for two tours as a helicopter gunner. During the service, his helicopter was under fire numerous times. One of his missions ended with the helicopter blowing up and Jordan having to run 25 miles thought the jungle to safety. He was considered good luck—everyone who was with him in a helicopter always returned alive—earning him the nickname Ganesh (a Hindu deity associated with luck and success)



On a final note - the most fascinating and epic Fantasy story i have read is the Japanese Manga Berserk - written and drawn by Kentaro Miura. Miura has now passed away, and his story is being continued by his good friend and workmate Kouji Mori who used to help him with the manga series. I dont read Manga's but one day stumbled upon an animation series of Berserk on tv. The story was captivating, the plot lines amazing, and it is also congruent with the knowledge we have gained from the C's and i was hooked. The drawings of demons and fight scenes are extremely dark, but realistic. From Wikipedia - the manga series has sold 70 million copies.

 
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Hello,
Thanks for opening this thread !
I'm a big reader of Heroic-fantasy and science-fiction books, I'm used to read 3 of them for 1 serious book.
I made a list of all my books on excel, for the Heroic Fantasy i have +/- 140 books and +/- 80 for sci-fi, all in french.

First, about the Wheel of time, for the french version, they divided all the books in 2, meaning that there are 28 books ! I read 8 of them between April and June this year but did not yet order the following ones. About this series ... yes, it's fine, but not wonderful, proof of that is that I did not yet bought the following ones ...
Yes about Brandon Sanderson who achieved the story as the original author died, and about him, i discovered this author end of previous year with the book "Elantris" and I liked his style, here's what i noted in the spreadsheet (translated to english) : Quite a big book, but not bad at all. I liked it, I like the author.

From all the books I have, on the Heroic-Fantasy part, i have a draw for the first place :
It' of course the Lord of the Rings of Tolkien and the trilogy "Demon Wars" of R.A. Salvatore.
I won't describe LotR here as almos all knows about, but this other trilogy of R.A. Salvatore is simply wonderful, I read it 3x so far. There are visibly 3 other books that follows this series but they were not translated to french, and I can't help to read a book in english (i'm constantly missing some vocabulary and I know and observe that i do not grasp all the meanings when i read something in english, thus, it becomes more frustrating than pleasant).
About "Demon Wars", if you like the stones, or stone therapy and studied it, you'll even more enjoy this series because you'll read a lot about stones. I often wondered, while reading these books, if there was some truths in what the author says about being able to amplify the power of stones through magic (or willpower, knowledge, in relation to the teachings of the C's).


Just below this top position in my preferred book are the long series of the story of Drizzt Do'Urden, the black elves, still from R.A. Salvatore, there are 13 books that I read 2x. He also wrote other series based on the same universe and he's one of the major author who participated in the popularity of the heroic-fantasy universes, the role-playing games ... Wizard of the Coast, etc ...

I quoted some response in order to comment them :
Anne McCaffrey has written quite a few good fantasy books as well as science fiction books. Her Dragon Riders of Pern series is very popular.
Ah, this book, it's a "brique" (meaning in french a big book) and it's the lone book i stopped to read because I found it annoying. Here's the comment I made about the book : I don't think I finished it because I found it boring, which is rare.

As they say, there's no accounting for taste.

There is also Mercedes Lackey who has written a number of good fantasy books. Her Valdemar series are quite popular.
There it's the contrary to my previous comment : very good ones ! And for those who likes animals, and here who likes horses, these books will enjoy you much. Here's the comment i wrote about in my notes : I really enjoyed it, with conscious horses, worth reading again.

... and yes, i plan to read them again.


Now, here are some other series and author with some comments, still about Heroic-Fantasy, I'll maybe re-post another day to speak about Sci-fi which i much like too :

1.
The long series (15 books, at least in the french version) "The sword of truth" of Terry Goodking is a good series, but from the middle to the end of the series drags on. My ex girlfriend also read them and had the same comment about. But the first books, at least until the middle of the series, are really excellent. Here are the 2 comments I made about in my notes :
For the first 7 books : I really enjoyed it, great lessons, great moral.
For the folllowing ones to the end : ... then it starts to drag on, but it's still not bad.

2.
The series "The Fey" from Kristine Kathryn Rusch, very good lecture, 9 books. Just that the very last book was not translated to french, i even connected to the website of the author, posted about and she replied me. She's accessible to her readers and talks with them on her website which is a good point. No special comment about, just that bought the first tome a long time ago and remembered that i should buy the others, that I did in 2023 and I read the 8 books in 2 months.

3.
If you like pure Heroic-Fantasy then the books written by 2 authors are pretty good ones : Margaret Weis & Tracy Hickman
I just noticed that i'm missing one book one 2 series of 3 books I have from these 2 authors -

The series named "The Dragonlance Chronicles" is the one i'm missing the first volume, I have to find it and re-read the whole 3 books. Here's the comment i wrote about : I like the author and the book because it's exactly the kind of Dungeons & Dragons novel you want to read again and again!

The second series i read is the one named "Dragonlance Legends", same universe, very good too, the comment I wrote about is in relation with the previous comment, here it is : Same here, it's good, it's great.

I will look into these authors more in the future and plan to buy more books written by them.

4.
Everybody knows Conan (the barbarian). They visibly recently compiled all the writing of the original author of Conan , Robert E. Howard, in a series of 3 books (at least, for the french version of the books) and I can't help to recommend them, they are very very good and, on top of that, there is a short bibliography by the author that explains the context in which he found himself in the late 1920s, the difficulties and constraints he faced, then his illness (he died young), and... in short, it makes reading these reissued books even more interesting.
Here's the comment i wrote about, it's a straightforward one here : Well, I really liked these original Conan stories!



There are other authors or series i could mention, about authors, all the books of Raymond E. Feist are very good too, or here, a german author who visibly like the dwarves : Markus Heitz, it's not as good as other i mentionned but still a good reading. And to come back to Brandon Sanderson, he visibly wrote also some sci-fi books and as I liked the first book i read from him i think i'm going to purchase other of his books.

The books of David Gemmel are also very good ones to read, his wife visibly started to writer after his death, I have 7 of his books and each time i opened one of them I was sure that it would be a good lecture to come. I wrote the following comment about this author : Keep fond memories of this author's books.

At last but not least, for the french readers, there's a very good author in France who is a master of the french langage, and one of his book is +/- related to heroic-fantasy, but could be also classified a bit like sci-fi or fantastic, his name is Alain Damasio, and the name of the book is "La horde du contrevent", It's a book that leaves no one indifferent. My comment on it was: Not bad, original, well written. ... but i would add now that I still remember it, this book made an impression on me, but I don't feel like reading it again just yet, which is a strange and unusual feeling.

Ok that was long enough for today :whistle:
Enjoy reading !
 
Another one I found recently, maybe not quite *epic*, but very good and interesting fantasy was a two book series by Stephen Donaldson, 'Mordant's Need'. A woman who has trouble believing she is real, is transported to a medieval world through a mirror.. All sorts of political intrigue, and romance, and some incredibly intensely written characters.. I haven't read anything else by Stephen Donaldson yet..

BTW, I want to apologise to Nienna - because today I realised my post about the Pern books probably sounded like I was saying it was a bad recommendation from you. That wasn't my intention.. Actually I had earlier half written a paragraph about those books (also in which I called them "a bit trashy") but deleted it before I posted my first post in this thread, as I hadn't had time to finish it.. I'd assumed you hadn't read the books yourself (because of the wording of your post), so was just writing my quick impression of them - and to me, "trashy" is a very non-serious word.. I call half the stuff I like trashy... If I'd realised you had read the books I hope I would've been more diplomatic with my words! Sorry Nienna..
 
BTW, I want to apologise to Nienna
No apologies are needed, Brandon. You wrote what you thought about them. I just didn't agree so I questioned you. Everybody sees things differently.

With the way things are today, I like to read books that have a bit of humor, or at least let the people in them get a breath from disaster every now and again. What I like about The Dragonriders of Pern series is that these people are fighting a non-intelligent phenomena rather than killing a lot of people. There are really bad people there are people there that have psychopathic/narcissistic personalities that are dealt with, but they are not the main problem. And, there is humor here and there. With what's going on today, I really need some humor in my reading.

As for Lackey. she uses humor quite a bit. And she is quite descriptive. I really like the fact that she writes quite a bit of really insightful things throughout her books. Things that we discuss here. Also, she seems to be very perceptive of how the mind works, sort of like Mary Balogh does.

Lackey has other series that are equally as good, The Jouster series is one of them. It does have dragons in it, though. And, then, there are her Elemental Masters series which are a rewriting of some fairy tales, such as: Snow White, Sleeping Beauty, Cinderella....there are 18 different books in this series. I didn't think I'd like them, but she is very inventive and they read like some of the Romance novels we've read...without the sex scenes.

I have read The Aldoran Chronicles have a bit more heaviness and gravity to them like The Wheel of Time series and the Osten Ard series do.

Then, there's the Iron Tower trilogy that smacks a lot of Tolkien's works and many people put him down for it, but the books are very good and there are quite a bit of big differences. I read these books, and the following ones, quite a while back and really enjoyed them. He is an excellent writer, at least to me he is. I'd read them again if they were in kindle format as I have to have larger print nowadays, but they don't give that option.
 
Fantasy is the genre I’ve read the most of in my life since a teenager. Malazan, Books of the Fallen is probably my favorite series of all time. The scale and depth still amazes me. Anything by Joe Abercrombie is up there too for me. The first 3 books of Game of Thrones was some of the best fiction I’ve ever read. Book 4 was a slog to get through. It started to come back around in book 5. Of course I have no hope that Martin will ever finish the series though.
 
Thanks for this thread, it's very interesting. I want to reread Tolkien and Jordan. But where will I find the time? Right now I'm reading a fantasy series about cats who speak human language and some adults who understand it. It's very good, for those who like cats. As for fantasy books, I'd like to reread "The Mists of Avalon"; I have very fond memories of it.



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When I started reading this thread, I immediately wanted to post and recommend The Mists of Avalon series (4 novels). It is the Arthurian legend from the women's perspective. I'm on my 2nd reading of the series. There's a theme through it about how dominant belief systems can shape reality. My favorite section is about how the Holy Grail quests came to be. Sex and violence do not dominate the writing.
 
A silly thing, but could some of the mods move the second/latter quotation mark in the thread title to its correct place (to the left)? 😱😀
 
Thought I'd add some thoughts I have had on fantasy (and to a lesser extent sci-fi and horror - so called 'genre fiction') over the years and some of its positive and negative sides.

You have the imagination of the authors and the stimulating of the imagination in the reader which I have always found very, I guess you would just call it 'stimulating'. This can I think go too far though, moving into escapism and fantastical thinking - living in fantasy rather than imagination as MacGilchrist might put it.

I have found the exploration of possibilities, ideas and theories within the framework of a fictional setting to be very useful. I very much dislike the term 'speculative fiction', but can see how it fits. Having read so many of these stories it made it much easier for me to conceptualise/visualise some of the ideas found here (dimensions, densities, hyperdimensional beings etc. - just look at how The Matrix movies provided a way for people to understand that concept). I think that because I had seen these ideas explored in other ways so many times, it wasn't as difficult for me to get my head around it all, or as shocking as it may be to those not exposed to it. Again, this can be taken too far in thinking that these fantastical versions are somehow 'true' rather than a useful interpretation. It's not like I have it all figured out by any means but I found that it helped put my imagination in a place where I could accept these possibilities and make sense of them.

Similarly, the many tales of good vs evil, cosmic battles etc - also seen in so many myths and legends, gives us examples of a great cosmic conflict (and, again, a way to get your head around such vast ideas) and inspiration to do something (heroes journey may be done to death in fantasy - but I find it never gets old). It often presents ways to conceptualise good, evil, balance (see Star Wars, Tolkien, Wheel of Time and so many others).

Some of the time it can just be a bit of good old fun, of course. But taken too far it can become an escapist crutch and lead to missing out on experiencing reality.

I have met a number of people who really didn't like fantasy at all (often thinking it very silly or completely unrealistic with no value) and they were also very closed off to new ideas especially in regards to the nature of reality, having very fixed views that I don't think they would ever change or accept any challenge to.
 
One series that I read around 30-40 years ago was The Deverry Series by Katharine Kerr. Back then there were four books in the series - Daggerspell, Darkspell, The Bristling Wood and The Dragon Revenant.

Written with Celtic themes, the series is about humans being moved to another dimension by powerful beings (faeries?) where they live among elves, dwarves and other strange beings many of whom have some kind of magical powers. Humans, elves and dwarves can also interbreed. Reincarnation is also a theme where one of the main characters, Nevyn who is a Merlin like character, has chosen reincarnation to atone for an action he took that resulted in the untimely death of others. While there are romantic and love interests included, the one between the characters Rhodry and Jill being particularly poignant, there are no sex scenes from what I recall. All of the characters mentioned so far reincarnate and appear under different names throughout the series.

Now there are apparently 16 books in the series and it's referred to as the Deverry Cycle with a total of 5 series making up the cycle.
 
Thanks every one for the recommendations, I am starting to feel the need to try something else after reading (listening to) so many romance novels.

I've watched the Wheel of Time season one, but it apparently is nowhere near as good as the books (which I have found on audible!!) and also found the Devery books 1 - 4 in one package (58 hours worth) so looks like I;ll be diving into those soon. Devery 1-4 on audible
 
Reminds me a bit of Lord of The Rings (not as good, though, what could be as good!?).

Yeah, in my book also, LotR is the pinnacle of fantasy (and general fiction) literature. I haven’t read the recent fantasy output, but of the older novels, Ursula Le Guin’s ”The Earthsea Cycle” is excellent.

There are five novels and one collection of short stories in it; the first three were written in the late sixties and early seventies, the fourth book in 1990, the collection and the final book in 2001.

Down the road, I had read the first four quite a few times and to my surprise, in the late noughties, I found out that two other Earthsea books had been published. Once I had finished reading them (especially the last book), I was very impressed by how well and gracefully Le Guin tied up things, as I had thought the fourth book was the last and there were no loose ends left.

Ged was the greatest sorcerer in Earthsea, but in his youth he was the reckless Sparrowhawk. In his hunger for power and knowledge, he tampered with long-held secrets and loosed a terrible shadow upon the world.

This is the tumultuous tale of his testing, how he mastered the mighty words of power, tamed an ancient dragon, and crossed death's threshold to restore the balance.

With stories as perennial and universally beloved as The Chronicles of Narnia and The Lord of the Rings—but also unlike anything but themselves—Ursula K. Le Guin’s Earthsea novels are some of the most acclaimed and awarded works in literature. They have received accolades such as the National Book Award, a Newbery Honor, the Nebula Award, and many more honors, commemorating their enduring place in the hearts and minds of readers and the literary world alike.


As for fantasy books, I'd like to reread "The Mists of Avalon"; I have very fond memories of it.

I read Rosemary Sutcliff’s Arthurian Trilogy last year and was planning to read The Mists of Avalon, but hearing that Marion Zimmer Bradley (the author) was a p*dophile (as was his husband, Walter Breen), soured me on the book.

Moira Greyland, Bradley's daughter, went public with her accusation on the blog of the author Deirdre Saoirse Moen earlier this month, giving Moen permission to quote from an email in which she wrote: "The first time she molested me, I was three. The last time, I was 12, and able to walk away … She was cruel and violent, as well as completely out of her mind sexually. I am not her only victim, nor were her only victims girls.

(An aside: Morgaine (Morgan le Fay) seems to be the heroine of The Mists of Avalon, and she is painted in a positive light, whereas in Sutcliff’s books (and most other retellings of Arthurian tales), she is depicted as an evil sorceress who plots against the knights of the round table, specifically Arthur. I thought that making a villain into a heroine was a sign of Bradley’s dark character, but Morgan le Fay was apparently benevolently represented in the earlier Arthurian legends.)

It’s a difficult point to tackle: if the particular piece of work is held in high esteem and is of value, one would have to be able to separate the art from the artist, I guess.
 
Fantasy books are excellent for exercising the imagination. And in life, imagination is like air. It's good.

I especially like fantasy books where animals are the protagonists, like rats, for example. (By the way, I love rats.) There's a fantasy series by Brian Jacques where rats are the stars. Here's the description of the first volume in the series:

Welcome to Mossflower Wood, where the gentle mice have gathered to celebrate a year of peace and abundance. All is well…until a sinister shadow falls across the ancient stone abbey of Redwall. It is rumored that Cluny is coming—Cluny, the terrible one-eyed rat and his savage horde—Cluny, who has vowed to conquer Redwall Abbey! The only hope for the besieged mice lies in the lost sword of the legendary Martin the Warrior. And so begins the epic quest of a bumbling young apprentice—a courageous mouse who would rise up, fight back…and become a legend himself.

Perfect for fans of T. A. Barron’s Merlin saga, John Flanagan’s Ranger’s Apprentice series, and J. R. R. Tolkien’s Lord of the Rings series.

“The medieval world of Redwall Abbey—where gallant mouse warriors triumph over evil invaders—has truly become the stuff of legend.”
—Seattle Post-Intelligencer

Another book whose main characters are cats, which I really enjoyed, is "The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents." by the known Terry Pratchett It's a very funny book.

Most of the time, these fantasy books are perceived as books for young people. The juvenile section. That's great. When we read these books, we're reading for that child still within us, a little girl or a young boy who is happy to rediscover stories where cats are brave and talk, where dogs have extraordinary adventures in worlds that exist but that we, being very serious adults, no longer see. Where trees talk, fairies are alive and cute, where rabbits have stories to tell. That child within us is happy. These fantasy books, whether by Tolkien or Jordan or others who have created worlds full of adventure, are magical and fantastical havens that can brighten these times, where grayness sometimes reigns a little too much.

They let us experience epics, quests, and they make us smile too...
 
It’s a difficult point to tackle: if the particular piece of work is held in high esteem and is of value, one would have to be able to separate the art from the artist, I guess.
Yes, but sometimes it's difficult. I learned some rather unpleasant things about Proust, whom I admire, and I wondered whether I should reread him. I decided to continue admiring his art, his genius. I have a friend who loved Tolstoy, but when he read that Tolstoy mistreated his wife, contradicting everything Tolstoy said, he refused to read him and put him on a blacklist. Of course, I've never committed pedophilia, but I've done some rather unpleasant things, "à la Proust" and that's probably why I forgive Proust.

This is a delicate and very interesting subject, this perception we have of the writer and his real life.
 
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