Explain to me what it means in term of difference in experience that animals are 2D please

paindespik

A Disturbance in the Force
Hi, I have been trying to understand this but I have not been able to comprehend it. Can someone please try to explain to me why you think animals are 2D entities.

Thank you <3
 
Hi, I have been trying to understand this but I have not been able to comprehend it. Can someone please try to explain to me why you think animals are 2D entities.

Thank you <3
The answer to your question has two sources.

The Ra (Law of One) material from the Llresearch group where universal levels of consciousness are defined for the first time and the Cassiopaea material from here where it is expanded and more nuances are given.

In general the term 2D is used in this forum in that sense.

Then there is the mathematical term, but in general here this notation refers to density or level of consciousness.
 
Hello, paondespik, seeing as this is your first post on the forum, we would appreciate it if you posted a brief intro about yourself in the Newbies section. Telling us how you found this forum, how long you've been reading it and/or the SOTT page, whether or not you've read any of Laura's books yet, etc.

Hi, I have been trying to understand this but I have not been able to comprehend it. Can someone please try to explain to me why you think animals are 2D entities.

Thank you <3

Have you read already the Wave Series by Laura?

An explanation you can find on our Cass Wiki page:

In the scale of densities, the second density corresponds to everything that grows biologically, up to the point where the emphasis in evolution shifts from the biological evolution of a species to the mental and spiritual evolution of distinct individuals.

The second density begins with the advent of self-replicating organisms subject to a biological evolution. The line between second and third density is hard to draw with exactitude but would generally correspond to the separation of modern type humans from primates.

Learning takes place in all densities and in the second density it primarily takes place at the level of a species adapting to an ecological situation or niche. Still. Second density cannot be seen in Darwinian terms only. It is noteworthy that the dividing lines between species are well defined, displaying distinct jumps and sudden species formation rather than smooth transition.

Esoteric culture speaks of the existence of species oversouls, which would be the non-physical counterpart of an animal species. The physical representation of this oversoul would be the DNA defining the species and its learning would physically be represented as the biological evolution of this DNA. At the non-physical level, the species oversoul, the effective unit of evolution, undergoes learning through the collective sum of all its incarnations in all the individuals of the species.

As the learning capacity of individual members of the species increases, as with higher animals, the emphasis of learning may shift from the genetically transmitted learning of the whole species to what is learned by an individual member of the species and stored in its brain or “soul imprint”. Thus the “soul imprint” may become no longer soluble or assimilable into the anonymous soul pool of the species.

Thus individual fragments of the species oversoul may become self-conscious and harvest-able to third density.

The notion of the organic portal further complicates the transition between second and third densities. Also, the emergence of individuated soul cannot be seen in terms of reflexive self-awareness, cognitive or behavioral learning alone. See the two quotes below.

From Ra:

QUESTIONER: Let’s take the point at which an individualized entity of second density is ready for transition to third. Is this second-density being what we would call animal?

RA: I am Ra. There are three types of second-density entities which become, shall we say, enspirited. The first is the animal. This is the most predominant. The second is the vegetable, most especially that which you call, sound vibration complex, “tree.” These entities are capable of giving and receiving enough love to become individualized. The third is mineral. Occasionally a certain location/place, as you may call it, becomes energized to individuality through the love it receives and gives in relationship to a third-density entity which is in relationship to it. This is the least common transition.

QUESTIONER: When this transition from second to third density takes place, how does the entity, whether it be animal, [vegetable] tree, or mineral, become enspirited?

RA: I am Ra. Entities do not become enspirited. They become aware of the intelligent energy within each portion, cell, or atom, as you may call it, of its beingness. This awareness is that which is awareness of that already given. From the infinite come all densities. The self-awareness comes from within given the catalyst of certain experiences understanding, as we may call this particular energy, the upward spiralling of the cell or atom or consciousness. You may then see that there is an inevitable pull toward the, what you may call, eventual realization of self.

From the Cassiopaean material:

A:…beware: 3rd density STS orientation includes the thought of “dominion” over 2nd density, and this is merely a continuation of the energy buildups of the approach of the wave… Some of the lessons are interesting indeed. When you assume that capture and imprisonment of those of lesser capacity than you is for “the good,” why should not you expect those of greater capacity than you to assume the same regarding you?!?

[…]

A: What if: one on 2nd density perceives objects due to their similarity. One on 3rd density perceives objects due to their difference, and one on 4th density perceives objects in terms of their own union with all of them?

Q: (L) Is there some way to communicate with whales or dolphins and can one find a way to translate the differences and have a reasonable, intelligent exchange with a whale or a dolphin or even an elephant?

A: You don’t need conversation “with” when a higher telepathic level.

Q: (L) Dolphins and whales communicate telepathically?

A: Yes. So do dogs and cats and snakes etc. etc. only humans have learned the “superior” art of verbal communication.

In the Fourth Way terminology, “one and two brained being” constitute second density. The “brains” in question are also known as moving center and emotional center. All living things have a moving center adapted to the species which regulates its physical processes, whatever these may be. Higher animals further have an emotional center. Both these centers have intelligence in their specific domains, but still do not grant capacity for abstract thought. That is the hallmark of “three-brained beings” who in addition have an intellectual center, in Gurdjieff’s system of terminology, and which correspond to third density and higher beings.
 
Thank you for your responses. I will present myself in the newbies section shortly :) FYI, i am in the middle of the first book of the wave, and of paul to marc at the same time, and I am a slow reader.

this was interesting to me :
RA: I am Ra. Entities do not become enspirited. They become aware of the intelligent energy within each portion, cell, or atom, as you may call it, of its beingness.
My intuition would have been that like animals/vegetation/minerals we have souls, individual or collective, but we humans have a spirit. But if I think about it, what I mean by spirit, would exactly be the above, becoming aware of the intelligence within each portion. But in that regard, it does not determine big steps beetween animals and us, but more like a continuum to me.
The think is, if there are big "steps" between the densities of consciousness, what drives the passing from one to another seems to me mysterious, in the sense that I don't know what sort of realization would produce such a jump, and as a 3rd density being, it feels like I should know why I am not a 2nd density entity anymore. If that makes sense xD. I am way more capable to use symbols than any animals for sure, is that all it is ?

I hope I am readable. I am French and my English is what it is
 
The think is, if there are big "steps" between the densities of consciousness, what drives the passing from one to another seems to me mysterious, in the sense that I don't know what sort of realization would produce such a jump, and as a 3rd density being, it feels like I should know why I am not a 2nd density entity anymore. If that makes sense xD. I am way more capable to use symbols than any animals for sure, is that all it is ?
It seems that there may be a jump as you say to the next density for some.

What does this define?

Well, perhaps your search will lead you to understand what third density is, what defines it, and that there is another level of consciousness below.

I'm sure I'll sound cryptic in my answer, but what you're looking for is available in this forum.

It's up to you to find out.
 
As an engineer, I try to understand thinks mathematically. And the connection between densities of consciousness and dimension is something that I am curious to know the link if there are any
Perhaps an animal's life experience is somewhat different from yours.

The level of consciousness operates in its scope.

Now at your level of consciousness you have infinite (or an incredibly) high number of timelines.

In one you get married and in the other you don't.

In one you are a thief and end up in jail and in the other you don't.

These are dimensions related to the level of density.

That's my understanding of the matter.
 
I'm not surprised if everyone conceives of the densities of awareness somewhat differently. Second density: Imagine a snail. It moves around, from its perspective, mainly on a 2D plane. It looks straight ahead. Its eyes cannot sharply discern objects and are basically light sensors. Its density of physical awareness and consciousness is limited to that narrow scope. That's a rigid, and easy to understand, example of 2D awareness and how it differs from 3D. Other animals from single-cell bacteria to whales have more or less of these kinds of abilities to interpret physical reality. It's an almost impossibly vast range of ability, yet all are within the confines of 2D, we're told.

What I've often wondered is if this vast range of potential awareness among 2D life forms is represented with equal vastness among 3D humans. In other words, are there some humans whose awareness dwarfs that of others with the same kind of awareness distance. Probably not, because according to Ra, 3D "cycles" more quickly, so we're all probably closer together than a amoeba is to a dog. Personally, I imagine that, due to differing life experiences and differing past life experiences (despite the veil of forgetting), everyone lives in their own personal density of awareness.

Here is one person's interpretation of Ra on densities of awareness.
 
As an engineer, I try to understand thinks mathematically. And the connection between densities of consciousness and dimension is something that I am curious to know the link if there are any
October 10, 1998


So, first question: Sometime ago we were asking about the comet cluster, when it will come, and you answered '0 to 14 years' from now.

A: Yes.

Q: (A) I would like to know first, when you say 0 to 14, is it absolutely sure that it will be 0 to 14 and not 0 to 15, and you can assign some very small probability that it will be MORE than 14 years? Is it really certain?

A: Nothing is certain. The course of the lessons is dictated by the progress of the studies.

Q: (L) [Whispering to Ark] Ask about the gamma rays...

A: No, Ark has the floor. You are in the quiet chair now. Or, Ark could be excused to go do chores if you wish.

Q: (A) Nothing is certain, but is the concept of probabilities, as it is used in the Seth material, legitimate? Can we speak about probabilities?

A: Yes.

Q: (A) Can you assign a probability to this period 0 to 14 years? How big is the probability?

A: Big.

Q: (A) How big? How close to 1?

A: 82 per cent.

Q: (A) Okay, so it is 82 percent that it will happen between 0 to 14 years. Can you assign a probability to the idea that it will happen between 0 and 7 years?

A: No, because that would disrupt your learning channel.

Q: (A) How are you calculating this 82 percent probability? Do you just compute all different worlds and this is in how many years this can happen accordingly?

A: The computation is based upon the calculation of all the possible variables factored against the window of the "time" frame.


December 1, 1994


Q: (L) What is the likelihood of S__ paying back what she owes me? It's a lot of money.

A: Depends on course of events.

Q: (L) And what are the possible courses?

A: 956000 possibilities.
 
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Hi, I have been trying to understand this but I have not been able to comprehend it. Can someone please try to explain to me why you think animals are 2D entities.

Thank you <3


A: Okay, stop, whoa! A review session follows: Who is 1st density?

Q: (L) Rocks and minerals, right?

A: And?

Q: (L) Plants?

A: Yes. Now, what awareness do you suppose they have of you?

Q: (L) What awareness do rocks and plants have of US?! Oh, dear God! (V) That's an interesting way to put it. An excellent example. (T) When we ask why higher beings have awareness of us but we are not aware of them, we need to ask what awareness beings lower than us have of us. (J) Obviously no more than we have of 4th density. (T) But when you play music to a plant, it has some awareness because it makes it grow better. (L) But music is not a being. (T) It's an energy wave. (J) Wait a minute... what they are saying is: they have no more awareness of us than we, as 3rd density beings, have of 4th density beings. (T) Does this mean that they interact with us the way we interact with plants?

A: Who is "on" 2nd level.

Q: (L) Animals. (T) Insects, lower life forms.

A: Now, think carefully, what level of awareness, and more importantly, understanding, do they have of you?

Q: (L) Well, I guess they are aware of us in some way, but they don't understand us... (T) Some do at some point... (T) They understand us to a certain extent... (Frank) But their understanding is entirely different from our understanding of them. In other words, they see these big hulking beings, but they don't know what's going on. (L) Was Ouspensky's explanation of how animals perceive humans very close to the truth?

A: Close. Now, what about 1st level understanding and perception of 2nd level?

Q: (L) Okay, 1st density, minerals and plants... now rocks and minerals combine with plants through growing actions, water dissolution, erosion, and so on, they have a real limited existence. And what happens is that mostly animals come along and eat them. (Frank) Bees pollinate flowers. (L) Different kinds of animals live in trees. (T) Some animals live in the ground and in caves. (T) So, rocks and minerals and plants have a really limited understanding of the animals above them which interact with them in various ways.

A: Yes, and you have a limited understanding of the densities above you.

Q: (L) Well, that is still begging the question, my question was... (T) As an example, today we all experienced something we call thunder, but we were all aware that it was something more. Something happened in 4th density that we experienced in a certain way, and it was a limited understanding of that level.

A: Laura, unblock, do rocks and plants "see" you?

Q: (J) Probably not. (D) We don't really know. (T) We see the 3rd density manifestations of 1st density objects. We don't see the 1st density perception of itself. So, how do we see the 4th density manifestations, they see us on a 4th density level... not necessarily as we perceive ourselves.

A: Tom, you are making rapid progress. Laura better watch her Butt! {laughter}

Q: (V) So, I am curious... what do rocks look like to each other? (L) Let's ask. What do rocks see when they look at each other?

A: They sense each other.

Q: (L) What example of our sensory apparatus would be close to an example of what a rock senses when it is aware of another rock?

A: That is a cross conceptualization and will not work.

Q: (L) So there is no way we can interpret what a rock senses. Well, another 1st density example is plants. We know that plants can react positively to certain persons and negatively to others. They have experimented with hooking them up to polygraph machines and measured these responses. (J) They also react to music... (T) Third density reactions...

A: Yes.

Q: (L) If plants interact with each other, do they feel, say, fondness for one another?

A: Something akin to that.

Q: (L) Does it hurt a plant when we eat it?

A: Does it hurt you when a "Lizzie" eats you?

Q: (T) Yes, you see, on 4th density... we are on 3rd density and we eat 1st and 2nd density, the 4th density eats us. (D) If we hurt plants by eating them like the Lizzies hurt us when they eat us, how are we to survive without eating?

A: When you no longer crave physicality, you no longer need to "eat."

Q: (L) So part of the "fall" into the physical existence and part of the Edenic story of the whole business, "you shall eat by the sweat of your brow," has to do with being physical and needing to eat?

A: Lucifer, "The fallen Angel." This is you.

Q: (L) So, "falling" means going into physical existence wherein you must feed on other life, other beings, is that it?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) When plants feed on 1st level beings such as rocks and water and so forth, do the 1st density beings feel pain?

A: That is redundant. We have already covered this.

Q: (T) So when a plant absorbs nutrients.... (L) Well, a plant is the same density as minerals, so it is almost like... (T) Like two separate entities becoming one? (V) Like Jeffrey Dahmer... {laughter} (L) My bologne has a first name... (LM) Minerals dissolve in water and are then absorbed by the plant, what pain could there be in this?

A: Subjective, L__.

Q: (L) Maybe the dissolution of, say, phosphate in water, is a "death" to it...

A: Close. You limit when you perceive on 3rd level only and think that your perception is all there is.

Q: (L) So, in other words, we should be able to perceive on 1st and 2nd as well as 3rd while working on 4th level understanding?

A: No. Work on 4th, 5th and 6th.

Q: (L) Is it not also beneficial to understand the 1st and 2nd density levels as well, just simply for the exercise in understanding that which is below us?

A: Strive always to rise.

Q: (V) Haven't we already done our 1st and 2nd level work as evolving souls?

A: Yes.

Q: (V) So there is no reason to step back. (T) Who eats the Lizzies on the 4th level?

A: No one. 4th is the last density for full manifestation of STS.

Q: (T) So, beings on the 5th and 6th level exist in pure energy?

A: Yes.

Q: (T) The 4th level is the last for full STS. Does that mean that the 5th level, which you have described as the "contemmplative" level... what is the state of existence of a STS being on the 5th level?

A: Souls of 1,2,3, and 4 go to 5th.

Q: (T) So 5th level is where they go to while waiting to go back to one of the 4 for their next incarnation?

A: Exactly.

Q: (T) That is why it's called the contemplation level. You go and think about what you have done. (T) What about souls on 6th density? (L) Are there 6th density STS beings?

A: No, when you get to 6th you no longer need to recycle.
 
Hi @paindespik I can't profess to understand densities from a fundamental mechanistic sense. I understand fundamentally it's to do with awareness, and I understand that movement through densities is a sort of natural evolution.

With regards 2D, my main understanding is animals cannot have the level of awareness we have. For example, an animal can't know what the sun is, or why there is night and day. In 3D we gain some fundamental self awareness and ability to be curious and investigate the world/universe. This is also reflected in our biology. Fundamentally though, we are locked in physical reality and can't directly experience non-physicality even though non-physicality is the fundamental reality.

In 4D I understand some fundamental shift occurs in terms of ones self awareness and experience with reality in that one can directly experience both physical and non-physical reality. It's some shift I can't fathom but that we get glimpses off from the UFO phenomenon.

More fundamentally, the distinction between STO/STS basically shapes the reality you experience from 4D onwards. In 3D you must accumulate enough attraction to one of these orientations that you surpass a threshold that means when the universal "wave" sweeps our reality, you will then transition to whichever of the two you are most aligned with. I understand it's not a matter of will or intelligence but a matter of character and conduct accumulated over multiple reincarnations that ultimately drive orientation.

Also read Castaneda and Gurdjieff too if you want to really go down the rabbit hole 🙂
 
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