fast induction

Vinícius

Padawan Learner
just curious, what's the deal with these hypnotists that send people into a deep trance by touching them, is it a developed ability? or is there a "john of god" factor too?
 

Vinícius

Padawan Learner
a bit more context: in this area of hypnotherapy we have a real flood of well meaning therapists and any "technique" people can imagine therefore is available, many of them similar to what we're used to reading about here, some mixed with innocent worship to deities or "arcturians" mothership whatever, which is often not disclosed to the person seeking help

so this creates a lot of confusion, maybe even attachments when seeking hypnosis treatment or training

of course this is more prevalent in some places than others but seems like it's increasing everyday, go to your favorite hollistic "teacher" and take a look not at what's given at face value but at their methods, notice how sneakily the "treatment" is given and how articulated they are, the more exposure said school has the more "successful" it is
yes, social media is a cancer

i wonder if something can be done to counteract this in a more involved way, like a network of hypnotherapists? people of knowledge and will to do things the way it ought to be done? could even be a catalyst for creating local communities?? or is it too late for these ideas? let me know what you think :)
 
Instant induction is accomplished by interrupting the normal thought processes. Stage hypnotists and NLP practitioners use, for example, the “handshake induction”, where they grab the subject’s wrist instead of their hand, and slowly let go dragging their fingers to the last point of contact, all while maintaining eye contact. The mind of the subject strains to process the weird handshake and a light trance is produced. It’s not magic, just clever non-verbal communication. Milton Erickson pioneered these methods, read his work if you want to learn more. As for the dark side of this practice, well, almost anything can be abused. I personally think that neuro-linguistic programming is a bastardization of Erickson’s work and should be taken with a grain of salt.
 

Vinícius

Padawan Learner
Instant induction is accomplished by interrupting the normal thought processes. Stage hypnotists and NLP practitioners use, for example, the “handshake induction”, where they grab the subject’s wrist instead of their hand, and slowly let go dragging their fingers to the last point of contact, all while maintaining eye contact. The mind of the subject strains to process the weird handshake and a light trance is produced. It’s not magic, just clever non-verbal communication. Milton Erickson pioneered these methods, read his work if you want to learn more. As for the dark side of this practice, well, almost anything can be abused. I personally think that neuro-linguistic programming is a bastardization of Erickson’s work and should be taken with a grain of salt.
yup, idk if it's just me but some of these "systems" seem more focused on entraining the operator's mind if you know what i mean
 

Alejo

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i wonder if something can be done to counteract this in a more involved way, like a network of hypnotherapists? people of knowledge and will to do things the way it ought to be done? could even be a catalyst for creating local communities?? or is it too late for these ideas? let me know what you think :)
Well, not to sound cliché here but It is knowledge that is the best protection against these forms of manipulation and control. And the work needed for that purpose should be practical, but also has an esoteric and psychological dimension.

it begins with knowing about those dangers, but also, it requires a bit of self awareness of the things that may be used to trap one in any given place. Some people might hear brothers from space and it will immediately sound sketchy, but for some others that's exactly what will make them drop their guard.

So, I would think that knowledge about these things accompanied by networking, which doesn't have to be with experts in any given field, IMO, it could be simply networking with individuals who want the best for you.

My two cents.
 

Vinícius

Padawan Learner
Well, not to sound cliché here but It is knowledge that is the best protection against these forms of manipulation and control. And the work needed for that purpose should be practical, but also has an esoteric and psychological dimension.

it begins with knowing about those dangers, but also, it requires a bit of self awareness of the things that may be used to trap one in any given place. Some people might hear brothers from space and it will immediately sound sketchy, but for some others that's exactly what will make them drop their guard.

So, I would think that knowledge about these things accompanied by networking, which doesn't have to be with experts in any given field, IMO, it could be simply networking with individuals who want the best for you.

My two cents.

sounds natural, not cliche at all
now say the person who began the work has achieved said awareness and is free from most illusions pertaining to "saving others" or "being saved"(where most people are blind), the control system makes relationships form in a way that seems designed to find the best fitting "realities" which are often another set of illusions, the hidden hand pushing agents to monitor or influence that person at almost every interaction, between the world and you remaining only a thin veil of faith in the work and the idea that not everyone must be controlled.

how do you go about achieving what's "best" without at the same time slipping on that fine line of being controlled yourself or doing other people's dirty work??
 

Alejo

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now say the person who began the work has achieved said awareness and is free from most illusions pertaining to "saving others" or "being saved"(where most people are blind), the control system makes relationships form in a way that seems designed to find the best fitting "realities" which are often another set of illusions, the hidden hand pushing agents to monitor or influence that person at almost every interaction, between the world and you remaining only a thin veil of faith in the work and the idea that not everyone must be controlled.

how do you go about achieving what's "best" without at the same time slipping on that fine line of being controlled yourself or doing other people's dirty work??
Well, if a person felt like they have achieved said awareness and Is free from most illusions, then I would say that such a person is under one of the most common illusions of all "I have no illusions because it's me".

I don't think one ever achieves this state of freedom from illusions, I think it's something that one has to continually tune and adjust and evaluate. I think it's a daily choice, not to live constantly questioning one's actions and choices, but to at least reflect upon them as often as prudent, with enough self awareness and honesty, so as to be able to recognize the places where one may have a blind spot, an illusion etc.

does that make sense?
 

Vinícius

Padawan Learner
Well, if a person felt like they have achieved said awareness and Is free from most illusions, then I would say that such a person is under one of the most common illusions of all "I have no illusions because it's me".

I don't think one ever achieves this state of freedom from illusions, I think it's something that one has to continually tune and adjust and evaluate. I think it's a daily choice, not to live constantly questioning one's actions and choices, but to at least reflect upon them as often as prudent, with enough self awareness and honesty, so as to be able to recognize the places where one may have a blind spot, an illusion etc.

does that make sense?
in a sense, because you could argue being alive is an illusion right, but does it preclude having illusions? or is it a choice? i think that has variations too

what i was asking myself is how to get the subject from point A to point B without going in circles, when the context is such that it is a matter of survival more than choice or needs more than "i wants"

"the operator lurks everywhere and if you doubt that, you're prolly one of them"

so one of the goals was to increase the options in common to people while not ignoring what is, otherwise me thinks we're going to live in a "Big Brother" sooner or later...
 

Alejo

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in a sense, because you could argue being alive is an illusion right, but does it preclude having illusions? or is it a choice? i think that has variations too

what i was asking myself is how to get the subject from point A to point B without going in circles, when the context is such that it is a matter of survival more than choice or needs more than "i wants"

"the operator lurks everywhere and if you doubt that, you're prolly one of them"

so one of the goals was to increase the options in common to people while not ignoring what is, otherwise me thinks we're going to live in a "Big Brother" sooner or later...
Well, I think gettin from point A to point B is always happening and frustrating though the circles may be along the path, they're sometimes necessary for progress and learning.

And no, not that abstract, what I meant about illusions are very grounded illusions that we live by everyday. We do it for so may reasons, what I was driving at was that thinking that one is completely free from illusions is an illusion in itself, I think that if we're human beings in this reality, we will have illusions. We will have sacred cows, narratives and lies we tell ourselves about the world, about ourselves and each other.

As far as increasing options for people, I think the best way to achieve that is through personal work and being an example by living one's learning. That can inspire others to choose, and is more of an effective way to affect change in this world I think.

Though I think the discussion can become a bit too abstract if we don't start talking about real examples.
 
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