Financial frequency fence USA

[hlat]

That's a good point, and probably more applicable in real world terms than the point I want to make just FYI: With federal student loans, after 25 years of Income-Contingent payments, no matter how small, the balance can be can written off. Of course this counts from the date of the consolidation, not date when the first payments were made on individual loans consolidated. 25 years! -- very hard to think in those terms given what we know and see around us.

Yes, if someone has a non-parent federal student loan, the income based repayment programs are survivable with the possible $0 monthly payment and forgiveness after 25 years. It's the parent federal student loans that are very dangerous.

I filed bankruptcy in 2003 (not 2006 as earlier stated in error), which was very weird to have to do since I'd had 20 years of perfect credit on numerous loans/accounts. But I had no choice and came to realize that bankruptcy was an ethical, moral and legal option for anyone qualified--which certainly included me. The only "cost" would be that I had to learn to live without being part of the debt/credit economy--on a cash basis (i.e. pre-1950's). Soon after bankruptcy, I needed to buy a new car since my other 2 had been repossessed. I found a suitable used car at CarMax and offered my father as a co-signer. They reviewed my credit history--ignoring the bankruptcy--and said a co-signer was not necessary. In the weeks which followed, I was flooded with offers for credit cards from every store and company imaginable. Of course, I tossed them all out, paid my car off in 2006 (which I still drive--only 123,000 miles) and have never applied for a loan/credit card since then.

Yes, car loans are easy to obtain in the days or weeks after the bankruptcy is over, especially from credit unions. It's actually a good thing and not a bad thing in terms of your credit score to accept no annual fee American Express, Discover, Mastercard, or Visa offers after bankruptcy.

 

[domi]

Good post.

A Self Directed Roth IRA allows to invest in real estate, metals, etc. It's a vehicle that real estate investors use very often to grow money tax free.
The thing to remember is that Roth IRA money is already taxed when it goes in initially as compared to an IRA where the money is taxed when taken out but you do get a tax deduction on your tax return when seeding it with funds.

 

[angelburst29]

Many of us need money to survive, for basics like food and shelter. The system is set up to attack us. It is up to us to learn how to counter the system's financial attacks. All bets are off when the financial system collapses. Until then, we need to survive the financial system. If we can live our lives without owing debt to the system, that's great. If we can't, we have protections.

Much appreciation in starting this Post, Hlat and the additional entries by Members of the Forum. It's been very informative and touches bases with areas that most of us, if not - all, are dealing with, financially.

I just came across an interesting article that mentions some of the information discussed here. In the past, I've found this site to be reliable with the information given, with cross checking available sources but in this instant, I'm not sure "how reliable or factual" some of the information is, especially in it's statements on our present currency of hundred dollar bills and lower denominations?

New U.S. Currency Already in Our Money Supply
http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/07/new-u-s-currency-already-in-our-money-supply/

It's a long article but worth the read. I'll just quote some statements.

For those of you that are stressing about the collapse of the U.S. dollar and the Federal Reserve, please take faith that initial measures have been taken to insure a not-so-hard landing when the Federal Reserve Note will be retired out of circulation, being replaced by notes printed and backed solely by the U.S. Treasury. If you have been putting your money under the mattress for the last few years, you will want to take the time to read this article so that you can replace the old fiat currency of the Federal Reserve Note (FRN) with new currency. We believe that those who do not start taking action will find in the near future that their fiat currency is unredeemable. This is particularly true of the billions of dollars that are held in cash outside of the United States, most of which will not be redeemable once the transition is made.

In this article, you will learn:
•How the 2009 $100 bill series is a hybrid of the old FRN and the new USTN (US Treasury Note);
•How the old $50 FRN has been replaced with a new USTN $50 bill;
•How to protect your cash stash if you are still holding old FRNs;
•How Benjamin Franklin created fiat currency and why his image will be destroyed on the $100 FRN as a symbol of the We the People choosing to govern ourselves again and eliminating Globalists from our banking and government systems;
•How the new USTN is backed by the gold-silver standard;
•A hidden symbol in the new USTN that explains how U.S. wealth was wiped out in 2009 with a flood-fire-flood on Water Street;
•Why you can’t get a title to your real estate once you have paid off your mortgage;
•How We the People are instrumental in completing the process of making the big switch;
•How our money supply will become a mixture of digital, paper, and metals in the near future as long as We the People wake up and see the writing on the $100 bill.

First, we are making the assumption that the readers of this article are fully aware of the history and state of the Federal Reserve System and its unabashed money-printing operations in flooding the global markets with fiat currency. We also assume that you are knowledgeable about why and how the U.S. transitioned off the gold standard and why going back on it is critical for our economic future. Many people who will read this article will be aware of the constant attention Ron and Rand Paul have given this issue from auditing the Federal Reserve to seeding a movement to begin Fedexit.

2009 $100 bill series is a hybrid of the old FRN and the new USTN

Why Was the $100 Bill Selected to be the Transition Currency?

What About Other Denominations and Other Currencies?

Good-bye Benjamin Franklin

Backed by Gold and Silver: Make U.S. Currency Great Again

There are two ways out of the Ponzi scheme of all time: a total collapse or a controlled demolition.

I Paid off my Mortgage so Where is my Title?

What we found out will shock you. Strange Image on the New One-Hundred-Dollar Bills

Flood-Fire-Flood on Water Street, NYC, 2009

DTCC and its partner in crime, Cede & Company

How are Stock and Bonds Actually Purchased

Mortgage Mafia Owns 80% of US Titles

How Did MERS Take Control

DTCC and Cede & Co plus MERS Have Same Owner

Back to that Strange Image on the New One-Hundred-Dollar Bills

(Article also posted here: http://stateofthenation2012.com/?p=44725 )

 

[JGeropoulas]

Yes, car loans are easy to obtain in the days or weeks after the bankruptcy is over, especially from credit unions. It's actually a good thing and not a bad thing in terms of your credit score to accept no annual fee American Express, Discover, Mastercard, or Visa offers after bankruptcy.

That's true but, personally, I was averse to re-embracing a mindset of subjugation to the system's godlike FICA credit score (i.e. I need to open credit accounts to improve my credit rating so I can have greater ability to get further in debt and need more credit...)

 

[domi]

That's true but, personally, I was averse to re-embracing a mindset of subjugation to the system's godlike FICA credit score (i.e. I need to open credit accounts to improve my credit rating so I can have greater ability to get further in debt and need more credit...)

Knowing how FICO works can be useful. It is part of the system after all.
There's no reason that somebody can't get a loan, pay off most of the principal and then make very small monthly payments on the remaining debt for a few years just to build the credit score back up. Same for a home mortgage.
Credit scores affect the ability to rent, get a job, etc.
By the way the matrix to good credit is 3 credit cards, a car loan and a mortgage.

If one is a real estate investor, why wouldn't it make sense to get a loan on a property and get 20% cash on cash return?

My 2 cents.

 

[JGeropoulas]

That's true but, personally, I was averse to re-embracing a mindset of subjugation to the system's godlike FICA credit score (i.e. I need to open credit accounts to improve my credit rating so I can have greater ability to get further in debt and need more credit...)

Knowing how FICO works can be useful. It is part of the system after all.
There's no reason that somebody can't get a loan, pay off most of the principal and then make very small monthly payments on the remaining debt for a few years just to build the credit score back up. Same for a home mortgage.
Credit scores affect the ability to rent, get a job, etc.
By the way the matrix to good credit is 3 credit cards, a car loan and a mortgage.

If one is a real estate investor, why wouldn't it make sense to get a loan on a property and get 20% cash on cash return?

My 2 cents.

I agree with you. Just as there's nothing wrong with shrewdly using public utilities, there's nothing wrong with shrewdly using the financial system. Likewise, those who are able, often prefer to go "off the grid" with utilities and/or the financial system.

 

[hlat]

Yes, car loans are easy to obtain in the days or weeks after the bankruptcy is over, especially from credit unions. It's actually a good thing and not a bad thing in terms of your credit score to accept no annual fee American Express, Discover, Mastercard, or Visa offers after bankruptcy.

That's true but, personally, I was averse to re-embracing a mindset of subjugation to the system's godlike FICA credit score (i.e. I need to open credit accounts to improve my credit rating so I can have greater ability to get further in debt and need more credit...)

When I am aware the system is giving out "free" money, I want to see if I can have it without altering my actions. For example, if there's a promotion from a credit card company that would credit me with $100 if I spent $500 on that card in 3 months, I'm going to try to get that promotion because I'm going to spend that amount regardless of the promotion. On the other hand, if the promotion requires spending $10,000 in 3 months, I'm going to ignore it.

We need to be aware of our vulnerabilities. If we are not tempted by having a $50,000 credit limit on a credit card, then I think it's not a bad thing to have a couple of those credit cards. But if we are tempted to use a $1,000 credit limit impulsively without planning, then it's probably better to remove all temptation and not have any credit. Why might it be good to have $50,000 or $100,000 in credit card limits or personal lines of credit? That credit card might have a 2.9% fixed rate for the life of a balance transfer promotion and we might have a parental or private student loan for $50,000 or $100,000 that could be completely paid off with such a credit card balance transfer.

Knowing how FICO works can be useful. It is part of the system after all.
There's no reason that somebody can't get a loan, pay off most of the principal and then make very small monthly payments on the remaining debt for a few years just to build the credit score back up. Same for a home mortgage.
Credit scores affect the ability to rent, get a job, etc.
By the way the matrix to good credit is 3 credit cards, a car loan and a mortgage.

My research indicates that we can get our FICO credit scores above 700 within 2 years of a Chapter 7 bankruptcy by opening 3 American Express, Discover, Mastercard, or Visa credit cards as soon as possible after the bankruptcy is over, without adding any other debt like car loans or mortgages. That's a good enough score for most purposes.

 

[hlat]

I just came across an interesting article that mentions some of the information discussed here. In the past, I've found this site to be reliable with the information given, with cross checking available sources but in this instant, I'm not sure "how reliable or factual" some of the information is, especially in it's statements on our present currency of hundred dollar bills and lower denominations?

New U.S. Currency Already in Our Money Supply
http://themillenniumreport.com/2016/07/new-u-s-currency-already-in-our-money-supply/

It's a long article but worth the read. I'll just quote some statements.
...
If you have been putting your money under the mattress for the last few years, you will want to take the time to read this article so that you can replace the old fiat currency of the Federal Reserve Note (FRN) with new currency.
...
•Why you can’t get a title to your real estate once you have paid off your mortgage

If someone has no debt and lots of assets, this thread overall may not be so useful. For the rest of us, there are better uses of money than having thousands of dollars of paper US currency under the mattress. For starters, if we had $1,000 or $2,000 set aside as savings, each one of us can be eating with sterling silver forks, spoons, plates, and cups, and that would cost maybe $300 on ebay in the antiques category. That sterling silver kills bacteria and viruses and would be in use everyday, as opposed to a one ounce gold coin sitting around. If we had money for both, then we could have both the sterling silver silverware in use everyday and the gold coin sitting around. Make sure the item is engraved "Sterling" or don't buy it. Sterling is 92.5% silver, so multiple the item's weight by 0.925 to get its silver content and therefore its reasonable market price. It's usually not a good idea to pay more than the market price.

As far as title goes, the homeowner has the title, and the title is recorded in the county, regardless of mortgages. A mortgage doesn't change the fact that the homeowner has title. That's why the bank has to try to use foreclosure to get title, because the bank doesn't have title and the homeowner does. It's a whole separate story whether the bank has the legal right to foreclosure. If a homeowner has made all mortgage payments, with copies of the cancelled checks and monthly mortgage statements, then there's no problem. The intersection of the problem is mortgages that haven't been paid and banks without the legal authority to use foreclosure.

 

[Ennio]

If someone has no debt and lots of assets, this thread overall may not be so useful. For the rest of us, there are better uses of money than having thousands of dollars of paper US currency under the mattress. For starters, if we had $1,000 or $2,000 set aside as savings, each one of us can be eating with sterling silver forks, spoons, plates, and cups, and that would cost maybe $300 on ebay in the antiques category. That sterling silver kills bacteria and viruses and would be in use everyday, as opposed to a one ounce gold coin sitting around. If we had money for both, then we could have both the sterling silver silverware in use everyday and the gold coin sitting around. Make sure the item is engraved "Sterling" or don't buy it. Sterling is 92.5% silver, so multiple the item's weight by 0.925 to get its silver content and therefore its reasonable market price. It's usually not a good idea to pay more than the market price.

The only issue with silverware may be the issue of its ease of use as a store of value - not that it would depreciate because it is, after all, still silver. But at the end of the day having silver or gold coins to cash in, trade in or barter with will probably be easier to use, and more "recognizable" and desired as a form of money. OSIT.

 

[Mark]

My research indicates that we can get our FICO credit scores above 700 within 2 years of a Chapter 7 bankruptcy by opening 3 American Express, Discover, Mastercard, or Visa credit cards as soon as possible after the bankruptcy is over, without adding any other debt like car loans or mortgages. That's a good enough score for most purposes.

I know of people with bankruptcy in their history who've gone to a bank, dropped $1000 or more into a certificate of deposit type account (I think that's what it's called) then took out a loan of equal or lesser amount using the certificate as collateral, then use the loan money to make the loan payments. So it's money going in a circle and meanwhile the bank typically reports the loan to credit agencies which in turn helps with the credit score. Ya it costs a bit due to interest so in this way they're buying their credit back.

 

[hlat]

The only issue with silverware may be the issue of its ease of use as a store of value - not that it would depreciate because it is, after all, still silver. But at the end of the day having silver or gold coins to cash in, trade in or barter with will probably be easier to use, and more "recognizable" and desired as a form of money. OSIT.

Yes as a means of transaction, silverware is not great. I think pre 1964 silver quarters and dimes, or silver eagles, would be the best for everyday transactions; whichever one has the lower premium over spot price. Silver is not a great means of transaction when the purchase is very large, like buying a house, because that would involve moving around large and heavy amounts of silver, though very large purchases wouldn't be often. Gold is not a great means of transaction when the purchase is not small, because even a tenth of an ounce gold coin is worth more than $100. Gold is better than silver in a travel or escape situation, and both are great stores of value, regardless of means of transaction. This is the problem with any money that does not function both as a store of value and a means of transaction.

 

[hlat]

I know of people with bankruptcy in their history who've gone to a bank, dropped $1000 or more into a certificate of deposit type account (I think that's what it's called) then took out a loan of equal or lesser amount using the certificate as collateral, then use the loan money to make the loan payments. So it's money going in a circle and meanwhile the bank typically reports the loan to credit agencies which in turn helps with the credit score. Ya it costs a bit due to interest so in this way they're buying their credit back.

There's a similar tactic that doesn't involve paying interest. It's a no fee secured credit card, available at many credit unions. It involves depositing an amount of money, and receiving a credit card with the exact same limit as the deposited money. For example, we could deposit $500 for the secured credit card and get a $500 limit on the credit card. This doesn't cost any interest as long as the statement balance is paid in full every month. I would not get a secured credit card that charges an annual fee or any other fees.

 

[realitybugll]

If you have fixed rate loan, then you are effectively betting on a devaluation of the currency. Example if you had a fixed rate mortgage. But that is also dangerous. What if the dollar depreciates ( which you wanted...) but you also lose job and can't make payments? . In a really bad collapsy scenario, your mortgage, that dollar denominated security held by financial institution, will be called in to prevent insolvency, that means, you either pay up or you lose the property. You'll get a check in the mail, that won't be worth much when you get it. The losses will be transfered to the customer in a big effort to keep the financial institutions solvent. Even if you lived in the nicest remote place, of security, if the bank owns your house, they could come kick you out, take your nice property... not good.

 

[hlat]

If you have fixed rate loan, then you are effectively betting on a devaluation of the currency. Example if you had a fixed rate mortgage. But that is also dangerous. What if the dollar depreciates ( which you wanted...) but you also lose job and can't make payments? . In a really bad collapsy scenario, your mortgage, that dollar denominated security held by financial institution, will be called in to prevent insolvency, that means, you either pay up or you lose the property. You'll get a check in the mail, that won't be worth much when you get it. The losses will be transfered to the customer in a big effort to keep the financial institutions solvent. Even if you lived in the nicest remote place, of security, if the bank owns your house, they could come kick you out, take your nice property... not good.

Yes, if we have the assets, it is better to pay off debt and not have a mortgage on our homes.

What do we do when we don't have the money to buy a home without a mortgage? The choices usually are paying rent, paying a mortgage, or living with family/friends. In many surprising situations, a mortgage payment is less than a rent payment. The mortgage has the advantage of leverage, where an increase in the home value could be a lot of dollars. When we lose our jobs and don't pay the rent payment, we may be evicted if we don't leave and the eviction process is usually much faster than the foreclosure process.

There's an additional option for those of us in the USA who are 62 years or older, and either have around 50% equity in our current homes or have around 50% down payment to buy a home. It's a government reverse mortgage called an FHA Home Equity Conversion Mortgage. With the example of the current home with an existing mortgage, we can get the reverse mortgage to pay off the existing mortgage, and then never make a payment on the reverse mortgage while we are alive and living in the home. No foreclosure and no mortgage payments ever again! We still have to pay property tax and homeowner's insurance. With the example of buying a home, we could pay 50% down payment on a home and the remaining 50% is paid by the reverse mortgage. Again, we then never make a payment on the reverse mortgage while we are alive and living in the home.

Betting on the devaluation of the currency I think is a really good bet in the current environment. The mountains of debt are unpayable except with devaluation.

As far as fixed versus adjustable rates, I don't think we will ever be given negative rates on our loans. So if we have debt, it might be a good idea to lock a fixed rate as close to 0% if we can get it.

 

[SummerLite]

Thanks hlat, good advise here. I'm considering bankruptcy. 7 years ago I lost a good paying job unexpectedly and I had student loan dept and a large cc dept. I immediately started paying only the minimum amount on the cc cards and the student loan was lowered for me based on income. My income fluctuates and isn't dependable at times, leaving me to scramble and "down grade" wherever I can which is where I'm at presently. I know a friend who filed bankruptcy but it coast her $1500 for a lawyer and this is a stumbling block for me. Is there another way to do this or is this fee it? Another factor is I have $5000 in back taxes which I make a monthly payment on. I'm considering filing for early Social Security to help, but they will take out 15% monthly until this bill is paid. Maybe that would be worth it. I've 3 years to go for full benefits. Any suggestions? I actually have had a good credit score all this time and have tried to protect that. But so it goes.

edit: I'm searching on line and this company looks good. Cost $229, can you have a look? -http://bestonlinebankruptcy.com/ It also appears the requirements for Chapter 7 are different for each state.