Finding Faith?

[black_ronin]

Ana you are wonderful person, thank you for your last post, it quenched my fire. Or in the igbo language I would say "you poured pure water on my heart". That was a very clarifying post, I will look foreward to read this fine piece of work!
I admit, I am a stubborn person sometimes Especially when I feel being lectured. :D So lets not get caught up with words. The problem started for me with the feeling argument somewhere in the beginning of this thread and I probably didn't express myself right. In fact a lot of things I learned to do I cannot put in proper words. Let me give an example. When reading the first time about how shamans use their dreams or their dreaming bodies, I got such a strong feeling or longing that I can do this and this is real, although my rational mind told me that this is some fictional madness. Now I decided to believe my feeling and sometime later I woke up fully conscious in my dream and could walk threw the walls of my room and fly around by just somehow wanting to move in the direction I wanted to move. So for me that was somehow the beginning to understand that my feeling or instinct knows better than my rational mind. That somethings you do not really need to rational understand how to do them but you just want or intent to do them in a certain way and it will work, because some part of your being just knows how to do them. So that is not really wishfull thinking or blind faith. It is more the feeling that it is possible and the faith that you can do it.
I hope I got it clear.
Know concerning the wave and the cassiopeans. I have read the raw transcripts and most of the wave series because I felt that it was the right thing to do. A lot of information I had allready was confirmed and I also learned a lot of new things. It brought me threw all sorts of emotions from shock, horror, pain and fear to exiting bliss and pure joy, jumping around my room in crazy happiness. What I liked most about it was the nature of the answers the cassiopeans gave and their especially their humour. That it was not like other channeled stuff which I normally disliked very much, not only because of the content but also because the FEELING was not right with it.
Allright I think that's enough talk for today, time to do some WORK!!! ;)

Bless the I

Power and Freedom!

 

[andi]

Strictly thinking 3D (in terms of polarity), what would be the opposite of faith? The intellectual center might end up with 'doubt', the emotional center with 'fear' and the moving center with 'weakness'.

Ham, this sounds good to me. Maybe your on to something here. Faith is like truth, I think, they come together. Faith, knowledge, truth - they may all have something in commune.

 

[ana]

Strictly thinking 3D (in terms of polarity), what would be the opposite of faith? The intellectual center might end up with 'doubt', the emotional center with 'fear' and the moving center with 'weakness'.

Faith is a VERY difficult concept, even more for non-native English speakers. Any thoughts on this?

I would say belief (closed flow) is the opposite of faith (open flow).

When we believe something we close our mind to that single possibility on the contrary faith opens the flow, opens the mind to other possibilities.

 

[truth seeker]

Strictly thinking 3D (in terms of polarity), what would be the opposite of faith? The intellectual center might end up with 'doubt', the emotional center with 'fear' and the moving center with 'weakness'.

Faith is a VERY difficult concept, even more for non-native English speakers. Any thoughts on this?

I would say belief (closed flow) is the opposite of faith (open flow).

When we believe something we close our mind to that single possibility on the contrary faith opens the flow, opens the mind to other possibilities.

I was thinking along these lines myself. Faith being akin to the creative which might make it's opposite entropy.

 

[Stevie Argyl]

Interesting to examine this.

Belief, Knowledge, Understanding, Faith

I have just put the kettle on so I will use that to explore.

1. Do I beleive my kettle will boil water for my coffee - Yes

2. Do I know my kettle will boil water for my coffee - Not yet - it might break half way through and the water might be lukewarm.

3. Do I understand how kettles boil water for my coffee - mmm, curious where do I start? The power station supplying electricity to the heating element? the fossil fuel that fires the power station? Do I begin with the kettle - so thats heating element - right - do I include the switch - no thats not boiling that electricity supply - so its electricity, resistance (whats that resistance do I understand that) , and how does water turn to steam ? do I understand that? - I'll stick with this - I understand how to use a kettle - fill it with water, plug it in, switch it on and stand back and wait - but dont watch as everyone knows a watched kettle never boils ;)

4. Do I have faith in my kettle boiling the water? Am I back at belief here? Is faith different from belief ?

Entymological examination of Faith and Beleif
Belief used to mean "trust in God," while faith meant "loyalty to a person based on promise or duty" (a sense preserved in keep one's faith, in good (or bad) faith and in common usage of faithful, faithless, which contain no notion of divinity). But faith, as cognate of L. fides, took on the religious sense beginning in 14c. translations, and belief had by 16c. become limited to "mental acceptance of something as true," from the religious use in the sense of "things held to be true as a matter of religious doctrine" (early 13c.).

would be interested in others explorations of Faith cf Belief.

 

[Leo40]

Hi, Ana and Bud:
Thank you for your response.
Ana: you answered my question: faith in truth. Truth is the object of faith.
I have faith that truth exists and that I may find it.

Bud: I was attempting to point out that knowledge needs to be qualified, i.e. objective knowledge.
The word alone can mean knowing a lot but having no understanding.

The map analogy may be a poor choice. I think that one has to set up feedback between knowledge
and experience. This can have positive results as long as the experience is evaluated critically.
Which means a true knowledge base for reference. Catch 22?

 

[Mixtli]

Andi: Thanks for your words. You certainly struck a cord. But in a good way i think. As a mirror. It actually helps me take a look at my thoughts and my self image. I see it is based a lot on what i do for a living. On the other side I know that the thing for faith is a tricky one for everyone and it is something that i have been wondering a lot lately. Thanks.

 

[andi]

Andi: Thanks for your words. You certainly struck a cord. But in a good way i think. As a mirror. It actually helps me take a look at my thoughts and my self image. I see it is based a lot on what i do for a living. On the other side I know that the thing for faith is a tricky one for everyone and it is something that i have been wondering a lot lately. Thanks.

:) I'm glad you are not taking it the wrong way, I feared that you would. Let me just say that it happens quite often that our buttons are pushed, as we learn and try to get hold of our negative emotions; it is a necessary path towards knowing thy-self better. I'm gland you taking the time to consider looking at your self image, is the ticket out of it.

Hope to see more of your posts soon. ;)

 

[Gertrudes]

This thread has been on my mind over the last couple of days. Thank you truth seeker for having bumped it up.
I don't have much to contribute to the question posed, but only share what's been on my mind.

If someone would've asked me how to find faith an year ago, I would have known how to answer. Today, I am no longer sure. Before I knew that in the end everything would just be ok, today, I no longer think so. I see things I didn't use to see, pain, misery and appalling actions from my fellow human beings, and myself. Sure, I saw them before, but not the same way...sometimes I doubt what I see, it seems so obvious that I can't understand how I didn't see it before, so I doubt that I am seeing it correctly.
Today I am also aware that not all is well in the unseen world, but quite the contrary. I think a void, a kind of emptiness has been building up in me. I realized for the first time that some of what I held as core values seem to have been transforming without my conscious awareness. When I read the question "finding faith?", it was as if my world stood still for a moment, I just couldn't answer something of which I had been so sure before.

i experience faith as a state of emptiness in wich truth can come in, something i try as much as i am able. It may seem contradictory but i found that in order to know one must become passive and void, then you receive and comes the active phase or giving.

Faith is a real commitment to truth and self interest cannot be mixed with truth.

I would say belief (closed flow) is the opposite of faith (open flow).

When we believe something we close our mind to that single possibility on the contrary faith opens the flow, opens the mind to other possibilities.

Thank you for these quotes Ana, I have written them down in my journal, hope you don't mind. They are giving me a new understanding of faith, and one's quest for truth.

ADDED:

I feel like somewhere inside is a rock-hard faith that no matter what specifics happen, Truth is surfacing in the consensual reality and all this effort is worth keeping the Work going.

Thank you also for this quote Bud. It brought me faith :) Or is it hope? I'm not sure, but it definitely brought me something :)

 

[ana]

Thank you for these quotes Ana

you are welcome

 

[Acaja]

Strictly thinking 3D (in terms of polarity), what would be the opposite of faith? The intellectual center might end up with 'doubt', the emotional center with 'fear' and the moving center with 'weakness'.

Faith is a VERY difficult concept, even more for non-native English speakers. Any thoughts on this?

I would say belief (closed flow) is the opposite of faith (open flow).

When we believe something we close our mind to that single possibility on the contrary faith opens the flow, opens the mind to other possibilities.

Very wise indeed, thanks Ana. Now this morning I woke up and wondered " what about trust, then ?". Because even in my mother tongue, I find it hard to define the true meaning of this word, without merging it with faith. Can somebody please enlighten me ?

 

[ana]

Now this morning I woke up and wondered " what about trust, then ?". Because even in my mother tongue, I find it hard to define the true meaning of this word, without merging it with faith.

i see trust as the result of various interactions that have proven by facts the truthfulness of the source of trust, making manifest its nature, wich is trustworthy.

Now, the hability to verify the veracity of a source comes from ourselves, so in the end one cannot trust, until has found inside himself this same nature, osit

So as I see it, real trust need colinearity:

As people work in a collinear direction, they acquire similar experiences and understandings. In general, esoteric work strives to increase one's objectivity. Thus the world and its effects, as well as the workings of the self appear increasingly in a common light to people following collinear paths.

As people near the esoteric circle of humanity, they reach a point where one can no longer both understand and disagree. This is a natural effect born of seeing the world as it is and has nothing to do with compulsion or any imposed set of beliefs.

 

[Acaja]

i see trust as the result of various interactions that have proven by facts the truthfulness of the source of trust, making manifest its nature, wich is trustworthy.

Now, the hability to verify the veracity of a source comes from ourselves, so in the end one cannot trust, until has found inside himself this same nature, osit

So as I see it, real trust need colinearity:

Thank you Ana for your patience, now i have some more matter to think about (co-linearity, synchronicity, faith and trust that is). Your quotes will be included in my journal too :)

 

[black_ronin]

Just a funny little anecdote that came to my mind thinking about believe!

I forgot the name of the scientist but this really happenned:

A man visits his friend, who is famous scientist. Above the door he sees a big fetish or a sort of thing against evil spirits.

Stunned he asks the scientist: "But man, I thought you are a scientist, a intelligent rational thinking man!"

"That's what I am", said the man of science.

"But then why do you put such a thing above your door?"

"Because the man who gave it to me said, that it works even if I don't believe in it!"

 

[luke wilson]

You know when the C's say so confidently that the lizzies will fail. I cant remember the exact script but that's something that stood out for me when I was reading that transcript. What they said was something along the lines 'funnily enough this will fail as well' Then laura asked how they can be so sure, then they proceded to say they could see everything objectively from 6D whilst the lizzies could only see subjectively. Right, from my point of view, you look at the world right now and I mean, the lizzies are winning and I just dont see how they can-not win this fight given that time is running out and the wave is fast approaching. They have out-thought and out-manouvred humanity - for pits sake, they abduct people at will from what I am reading. They hold the high ground. So how are they going to fail??? I mean is some miracle going to happen?? So anyways, inorder for me to believe what the C's are saying in this context I must have FAITH which in this case goes against what I am seeing.

So what is FAITH then??? Hmm, very interesting question. I see faith as something that well, over-rides intellect/the thinking process imposed on us specifically. I am not sure about emotions. Usually FAITH seems to go well with emotions/feelings - I dont know the difference between emotions and feelings except that emotions give rise to feelings. Anyways, so you have faith and you feel right about your faith but your mind is abit unsure but nonetheless you start on your journey down this path and FAITH is essentially guiding you as your mind lets say cannot see behind the veil that Faith is attempting to get you through. This is how I see Faith. It's almost something exotic because it just defies belief/logic but when you reach certain points in your journey maybe you gain abit of understanding that hint at your FAITH being right, or rather they justify your faith. Maybe BLIND FAITH is when after many experiences contradicting ones original faith, one still persists with this particular faith regardless of any objectivity whatsoever. Maybe this particular FAITH is not the one being referred to here(on this thread) but nonetheless it's an imitator of the Faith being talked about here and sometimes maybe people cannot tell the difference between the 2.

How does one find FAITH? Well i'd say one doesnt find Faith, Faith finds the person....