Friend of mine needs a proof

[dredger]

Hello,

I just had a discussion with a good friend of mine.
He's aware of a lot things, quite in advance among all the zom... people .. but on the spirituality side, he says that there are too much "theories" and too many teachings around the world that he's finally "lost" regarding this subject.

I told him to start to read Laura's book, but he directly told me that he already have 4 books that he's reading at the same time, and others to read. What he points is that he doesn't have the time to sort out which are the goods ones to read because this would need to read them all, and I understand a bit what he says. I had the luck to have my uncle whom I trust and who follows Laura since 20y - this prevented me to go away and loose time, years or maybe indefinitively in the disinformation area. Now, my own instinct tells me I found a valuable source of true information here.

So he just told me something, i traduct as i I can : "Ok to believe in the Cassiopeans, and if they are what they say, I write a code on a paper and they have to answer the single question of "What is the code my friend, Michaël, wrote on this paper (this sunday 29/9 at +/- 2:30am)" ?
Then he took a paper, wrote on it, in french, a small message to Laura and the C's and a code, framed, composed of letters and numbers and kept it in his pocket.

So you see the point - at this time, what do I do, what do I answer him ?
I'm aware that if all people would need such a proof to believe in it would become impossible for Laura. Each start of a new session would be, during 10 minutes, 20, 30 even more, to answer questions like "what's the code written by Mr X Y from Z country ?" and so on ...

I'm sure it's the kind of request which is NOT liked, I read it in the introduction of the forum. I don't want to be blamed about this post but I understand people like him, coming on this site or being introduced the subject by a friend (like me now) - he's not asking a personal question, simply a "fast verification"

I did as I felt and came to post this here seeking your advises.
I'll give him the url of this post and he'll be able to come to read your answers.

And of course, if Laura feels like asking this fast question to the C's, then yes, he ensured me he'll read Laura's book and will consider her work seriously.

Cheers

 

[mkrnhr]

Hi dredger,
Your interaction with your friend is a little bizarre. First of all, he is free to read whatever he/she wants according to his own research and what interrests him/her. As for the cassiopaeans, nobody "believes" here. It's not at all about believing or not believing. Some of what the cassiopaeans lead to researching and thinking about certain things, some others are just kept as possibilities in case someday they can be verified or refuted. In other words, It's about knowledge, not beliefs (which restrict the process of knowledge).

 

[Turgon]

So he just told me something, i traduct as i I can : "Ok to believe in the Cassiopeans, and if they are what they say, I write a code on a paper and they have to answer the single question of "What is the code my friend, Michaël, wrote on this paper (this sunday 29/9 at +/- 2:30am)" ?
Then he took a paper, wrote on it, in french, a small message to Laura and the C's and a code, framed, composed of letters and numbers and kept it in his pocket.

So you see the point - at this time, what do I do, what do I answer him ?

Well, you got to think that Laura has better things to do than try to verify the validity of the C's for this person who, judging by how he is going about wanting proof, doesn't seem interested in her work at all.

And of course, if Laura feels like asking this fast question to the C's, then yes, he ensured me he'll read Laura's book and will consider her work seriously.

Seems coercive. mkrnhr is right, your friend is free to read and learn whatever he chooses and demanding proof in this way doesn't show he has a legitimate interest in Laura's work.

 

[Mal7]

Even if the information source could tell you what a code written on a piece of paper was, that would not mean that that source was trustworthy and everything else they said should also be believed.
This idea is one of the main themes of Joe Fisher's book Hungry Ghosts: True Story Behind Channelling and Spirit Guides (1990), which is about people channelling entities that told many convincing details about circumstances of their past lives, but on further historical investigation it seemed they couldn't actually have been who they said they were.

 

[SeekinTruth]

I agree with the others, dredger. If your friend doesn't have a genuine interest in the Cassiopaean Experiment and Laura's books/work, then let him be to pursue his own interests. And the C's have said in the past that they're not trying to prove their "existence" to anyone. If the Experiment raises real interest for any particular person, they'd be willing to further investigate the work, if not, then that's that.

 

[Buddy]

So you see the point - at this time, what do I do, what do I answer him ?

Hi dredger. I can't speak for Laura, but if it were me being asked to produce "proof", I would have no desire for someone to either believe or disbelieve in the Cassiopaeans or anything said under that or any other name. So, from where would come any motivation for me to prove anything? The only "confirming" thing about this journey is when you reach a point when you can "know" something. All else is mostly just conversation and constant searching and experiencing.

Besides, like Gurdjieff said about his own Work, a person needs to come to Work from his own decision because he has determined that there is something there that he can learn that will help him. If a person can manage to link his choice of behavior to something someone else says or does, then he also gets to "blame" that other person if and when things go wrong.

Once you understand this, would YOU want to be asked or coerced into that position? I wouldn't.

 

[Buddy]

In the reply above, in the first paragraph, I meant to write "experimenting" instead of "experiencing"

 

[sarek]

I think in short this is why faith is called faith. You need that first morsel of it to grow more. From then on its a personal choice to embark on the journey.

 

[Psalehesost]

I think in short this is why faith is called faith. You need that first morsel of it to grow more. From then on its a personal choice to embark on the journey.

Yes, though always keeping in mind what exactly is meant by faith. For anyone not familiar with how the word is used on this forum and network, it has a different meaning than belief:

In QFS discourse, the word belief means a concept which is accepted as a given truth, without necessarily being critically evaluated. The concept often connotates emotional attachment of the believer to the belief.

Belief is sometimes used as the opposite of 'faith.' Belief here means that one has firmly decided that the world is a certain way and holds fast to this view even in the face of evidence to the contrary. In essence, one is attempting to force one's model on the world. 'Faith' in this context implies an open and receptive attitude to the universe. Faith implies trust but does not imply an inflexible judgement on how things must be. Belief is in a sense controlling and scared of being wrong, while faith is adventurous and flexible.

Even though the dictionary definitions of faith and belief are similar, the Cassiopaea material tends to make the above distinction between the two.

In short, faith is faith in the journey of learning, while belief is a way of stopping in that journey.

 

[mada85]

I had the luck to have my uncle whom I trust and who follows Laura since 20y - this prevented me to go away and loose time, years or maybe indefinitively in the disinformation area.

It appears that you are certain that you haven't lost any time in your learning. I would like to ask some questions.

Have you compared other lines of thought or teaching with that promoted here? If you have, what conclusions did you come to?

Can you be certain that your friend is 'losing time'? Given that we are all at different points on the learning curve, and learning at our own pace, what does it mean to 'lose time'? Each person has their own path. When it comes to exercising our free will and natural curiosity in the direction of learning, is 'losing time' even a valid concept?

I think there is a certain self-importance on your part, an assumption that you have the 'real deal' in terms of a spiritual teaching and that you are more advanced than your friend. His reaction, it seems to me, is defensive.

So he just told me something, i traduct as i I can : "Ok to believe in the Cassiopeans, and if they are what they say, I write a code on a paper and they have to answer the single question of "What is the code my friend, Michaël, wrote on this paper (this sunday 29/9 at +/- 2:30am)" ?
Then he took a paper, wrote on it, in french, a small message to Laura and the C's and a code, framed, composed of letters and numbers and kept it in his pocket.

So you see the point - at this time, what do I do, what do I answer him ?

His defensiveness is expressed as a 'challenge' to the Cs and Laura. This 'challenge' is an example of black and white thinking, an automatic defensive reaction often adopted when a person feels threatened. For your friend, the C's answer must be 'all or nothing'. This approach allows him to dismiss the Cs and Laura. It is pretty much completely certain that Laura would not waste her time on a parlour trick such as asking the Cs what is written on a piece of paper in someone's pocket. Not to mention that the Cs themselves rate their accuracy at only 70%.

So I think that the best thing you can do is to let your friend exercise his free will to learn at his own pace and in his own direction. When you have conversations with him, try to exercise external considering - making things easy for him and, by extension, for yourself. If you can do this, perhaps he may, at some point, investigate Laura's work. Perhaps he may not. Both options are open and are his free will choice.

 

[Nienna]

So I think that the best thing you can do is to let your friend exercise his free will to learn at his own pace and in his own direction. When you have conversations with him, try to exercise external considering - making things easy for him and, by extension, for yourself. If you can do this, perhaps he may, at some point, investigate Laura's work. Perhaps he may not. Both options are open and are his free will choice.

As Endymion has said, we all have our own lessons to learn. When we are ready for material such as the Cs, we will find it on our own, usually. We are all at different places on the learning curve. A lot of people are not ready for this material. Trying to make them see our own point of view is inconsiderate and going against their free will and usually ends up with putting others into a state of denial about anything having to do with such material and they may start thinking that we are all nuts, or worse.

Along with reading about external consideration that Endymion gave you the link to, you may also want to read about Strategic Enclosure.

As far as what the Cs think about "proof", there is this:

Q: (L) Mike Lindeman has proposed that we submit the
channeling to 'rigorous testing.'
A: Mike Lindemann does not channel, now does he? What
sort of rigorous testing does he propose?
Q: (L) He didn't say. I guess they want short-term predictions
and all sorts of little tests...
A: Precisely, now what does this tell you?
Q: It tells us that he wants proof.
A: Third density "proof" does not apply, as we have explained
again and again. Now, listen very carefully: if proof of that
type were possible, what do you suppose would happen to
free will, and thusly to learning, Karmic Directive Level One?
Q: (L) Well, I guess that if there is proof, you are believing in
the proof and not the spirit of the thing. You are placing your
reliance upon a material thing. You have lost your free will.
Someone has violated your free will by the act of PROVING
something to you.
A: If anyone CHOOSES to believe, that is their prerogative!
Q: (PZ) [unintelligible remark]
A: You did not completely understand the previous response,
Pat. And what would constitute proof?
Q: (L) Predictions that came true, answers that were verifiable
about a number of things.
A: Those would still be dismissed by a great many as mere
coincidences. We have already given predictions, will continue
to do so, but, remember, "time" does not exist. This is a 3rd
density illusion. We don not play in that sandbox and cannot
and never will. The primary reason for our communication is
to help you to learn by teaching yourselves to learn, thereby
strengthening your soul energy, and assisting your
advancement.
Q: (L) Are you saying that your primary reason is just to teach
us? This small group?
A: Because you asked for help.
Q: (L) So, you came through because we asked. Is this
material being given to others, or is it designed to or intended
to be shared with others?
A: If they ask in the necessary way. Otherwise, the sharing of
the messages we give to you will teach millions of others.
Q: (L) What is the 'necessary way?'
A: How "long did it take you?"
Q: (L) Well, it took all our lives and a LOT of hard work.
A: Okay, now what did we mean when we referred to
"millions of others?"
Q: (L) Are you saying that this information will be transmitted
in some way to millions of others?
A: In what way?
Q: (L) Well, the only thing I can think of is through books.
A: Bingo!!