Friends with babies - vaccination woes.

W

Woodsman

The Living Force
I'm doing something wrong.

I have all this useful knowledge, but I'm obviously not sharing in the right ways.

Over the years, I've tried many different methods. Forceful. Patient. By-Example. Some are more effective than others, (depends on the person and the situation) but on the whole, it seems to be that people are far, far more comfortable following the popular authorities in all matters great and small.

I spent the last six months learning everything I could about vaccines and virology to the point where I can lecture on the subject at length if I chose to. -Part of this was due to several people in my community all giving birth. There are now a number of new babies bouncing. Bright, beautiful new people.

And one of my dearest friends just came back from the doctor having had her four month old injected with a number of prescribed vaccines. One of which was the seasonal flu vaccine.

All I can do now is hope that his little immune system will be able to handle the shock without any tragic repercussions. He's such a responsive, amazing child. Seeing that light dim or go out would break so many hearts. He's strong, and nice and chubby, well-loved. I think he has a good chance. Many get through. I hope he'll be counted among that number.

I know it's a Free Will Universe, and that violations are to be avoided. But I can't help but feel like I failed a new soul and a dear friend I (maybe?) was supposed to help.

What do you do? Watch and love and let the lesson play out. I don't know. Maybe acceptance IS the lesson. Maybe I'm being selfish. It's not MY life, so what business is it of mine?

But I also wonder if there are behaviors I'm working with (in myself) which are perhaps invisible to me and which could use an overhaul if any of this knowledge is going to be any good to anybody around me other than just me.

What have others here done in similar situations?
 
Let's be blunt, and follow the example of Jesus, as described in the Gospels.
He told his disciples to go out, and spread the Good News to the people, with the injunction that should they not accept the Good News, then as they depart from that property, they should shake the dust from their sandals as they left.
This is particularly a cultural meme, much like the throwing of a slipper at George Bush jr.

So to imitate this style, perhaps you could pass the information you have to those who will listen, then leave it with them to deal with.
Your responsibility ends there.
 
I think all you can do is pass on the information and hope they will listen. Unfortunately we're living in a society where simply disagreeing with the authorities labels you as a bit of a nut. A few years ago my Dad was given medication for high cholesterol. I didn't like it and thought he should try diet and lifestyle changes first before going on meds but he wasn't going to go against his 'doctors orders'. Within 6 months he had a heart attack. I knew something like that would happen if he went on medication. He's pulled through ok but what can you do?

It's difficult when children are involved because the parents are potentially screwing up another soul's incarnation. Maybe you could mention something to help with detoxing the child. That's probably what he or she needs now.
 
Sorry to hear about all the information and suggestions you've gathered falling on deaf ears. It can be frustrating not seeing others wake up even after being presented with information. It sounds like you're beating up yourself at the start of your post. Like MusicMan and Beorn said, you can give people information but that child's health is not your responsibility any longer. It will save you grief not to identify too much or feel like you failed somehow. All there is is lessons.

Have you thought about maybe compiling all that you've read about vaccination into a blog entry or an essay or a SOTT article? It could be a potentially valuable outlet, since it could help you work through your own emotions on top of helping to educate others out there. Just a thought. :)

I'm interested in the topic of vaccination myself... which books, resources and articles have you found to be the most educational?
 
Yeah. Offer the information (several times in several ways), then stand back. It's not my fault if it is then ignored. Sure.

This kind of thinking is rather too well within my grasp. As I learn more, it becomes altogether too easy to see people as mechanical and unaware, as simple action/reaction machines. Also, it feels good to not feel pain. However, I very much don't want to *not* feel pain or compassion. I *want* to be able to feel other people's pain (and joys). I think the reasons for this are obvious, especially around here. So.., balance.

Also, in this particular case... I've already done some baby-sitting with this particular child. There's so much intelligence and depth and recognition in his eyes. An old friend maybe? When you're changing somebody's diapers, it's very easy to start caring a whole lot. I want this kid to have all the chances for a healthy life he can get. I'm obviously biased at this point, but I also get a strong sense that he's *important* somehow. He's got things to do and he needs every advantage he can get. I keep thinking of my adult friends and how we look out for each other here and now. I can easily imagine, "Okay. So I'll be born, and you'll look out for me?" "You bet! I got your back!"

Except I didn't.

But there are still opportunities to make a difference. He's supposed to go back for the next series of shots in a month. I got his mom to promise me to at least let me go over with her some of the things she could benefit from considering before then. That's something.

whitecoast said:
Have you thought about maybe compiling all that you've read about vaccination into a blog entry or an essay or a SOTT article? It could be a potentially valuable outlet, since it could help you work through your own emotions on top of helping to educate others out there. Just a thought. :)

I'm interested in the topic of vaccination myself... which books, resources and articles have you found to be the most educational?
Click to expand...

I documented some of my explorations over the past few months here...

http://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,35993.0.html

It's pretty dense with info, but it needs more work. I still want to deal with a few big sub-topics.
 
Woodsman, you might be able to offer her information about being more cautious about the timing of the vaccinations which might possibly be enough to attenuate some damage. That is, if she is too anxious to re-consider vaccines in general.
 
Hi Woodsman.

I agree with the advice given above. You can share but it's up to the individual whether or not they want to take the information on board.

If one of your friends is interested here's a good article that was posted on SOTT. It contains pretty much all the reasons why vaccines are bad news.

_http://www.sott.net/article/291262-Flu-shot-Forget-about-it
 
Hi Woodsman,
I don't think you're doing anything wrong, trying to point out to parents the issues with having a child vaccinated. But as others have said, what more can you do than that?

You've said it yourself
Maybe acceptance IS the lesson
Click to expand...
and I would suggest that it is the lesson in this particular circumstance.

You're going against all the indoctrination that parents are continually subjected to. My wife and I have received many letters trying to get us to vaccinate our daughter and they always start off with "we know you want to do what's best for your child". Just those words really pluck on your heart strings. When the health worker comes round to your house, they just assume that you want your child vaccinated, even offering leaflets that point towards it being oh so good for the child. I wasn't there one time and they pushed my wife hard to get her to submit! When we've phoned the surgery to cancel any appointments that they've made, the response has been anything but polite!
I've spoken with other parents about it, but simply because there's children involved they get scared by all the fear mongering.

My family and I were sitting at the dinner table the other night and my son chipped in with "why don't we ever go to McDonalds? all the other children do". It's a similar theme relating to the group mindset. Everyone else is doing it, so how can it be bad?

I may be way off the mark here :-[, but when you said
I have all this useful knowledge, but I'm obviously not sharing in the right ways.
Click to expand...
I got the impression that you're expecting that just because you're sharing the knowledge that it will be automatically accepted and acted upon.


On a side note, I asked my wife if there was anything in particular that she thought I needed to work on and she said that I needed to be aware that on certain occasions I came across as "lecturing" rather than "sharing". It's a fine line

It's always going to be tough when there are children involved.
Good luck Woodsman :)
 
Thanks, everyone.

It's much easier to stand back and accept the Free Will concept when dealing with adults. I've never dealt with something like this, though, where this little guy is involved who is so bright and trusting. His own mom took him to be poisoned. Welcome to the world, kid.

I'm sure the pro-vac people feel the same way. So many folks want to do the right thing. It's the psychopaths at the top doing this. Psychopathy isn't just a distant concept. It's a daily reality.

I was in a coffee shop an hour ago, overhearing people discuss the Charlie Hebdo thing; heartfelt protestations about censorship and cultural respect, etc., with an underlying, unspoken acceptance that the Muslim world is full of unstable people more inclined to radical violence than other people, that they are something to fear, with no conception that they're having what amount to pre-scripted nonsense debates, being manipulated, missing the point entirely. I almost interjected but felt too unprepared, pretty sure I'd just come across sounding like a lunatic to complete strangers, and so just sat and fumed and eventually went back home.

It's just a crappy kind of day.

It'll be better tomorrow with some sleep and contemplation. I feel sometimes like the fate of the world is being decided in coffee shops. Some days are wins. Many of them are. This just isn't one of them.

Thanks for listening. It helps.
 
I feel it has a lot to do with 'how do other people perceive me', people generally don't want to stand out from a crowd and so do things blindly just to blend in and be normal. Just like the smiths and joneses.
People I've spoken to about vaccinations don't even bat an eye lid about jabbing their newborns with all kinds of funky things, they do what they're told to do for appearances - coz that's all it is- it appears to them that they are doing the right thing coz everyone does it.

My doctor told me I mustn't love my daughter because I didn't vaccinate her and I also refused the newborn heel prick screen. He told me to stop reading information that conflicts the vaccine scientific data (government's official documents of course) because it's disinformation and said I was selfish to rely on the herd to protect my child from illness and disease.

I figure that those that want to know something will ask or research for them self. If/when I've tried to give a different point of view or information that wasn't requested it rarely goes well, I'm the weirdo who doesn't act like the others. The goat that won't follow the shepherd and eats his boots while he's sleeping. I've learned to shut up even when it hurts like hell!

Bless your little friend Woodsman. May be this wasn't the moment you're supposed to protect him from. May be it's enough that he will know how deeply your care for him. I know your hurt, my 4 month old nephew is going through the same thing with his parents, it's so so frustrating to sit back with my fingers pinching my lips closed so I won't spew all over everyone!
 
Fluffy said:
I feel it has a lot to do with 'how do other people perceive me', people generally don't want to stand out from a crowd and so do things blindly just to blend in and be normal. Just like the smiths and joneses.
People I've spoken to about vaccinations don't even bat an eye lid about jabbing their newborns with all kinds of funky things, they do what they're told to do for appearances - coz that's all it is- it appears to them that they are doing the right thing coz everyone does it.

My doctor told me I mustn't love my daughter because I didn't vaccinate her and I also refused the newborn heel prick screen. He told me to stop reading information that conflicts the vaccine scientific data (government's official documents of course) because it's disinformation and said I was selfish to rely on the herd to protect my child from illness and disease.
Click to expand...

This part is maddening.

I *know* exactly what you're talking about. -My friend in this case, she'd heard me discuss the subject on numerous occasions, even polled my opinion in a room of our peers, "What does everybody think about vaccination?" We all weighed in. Most people had only cursory knowledge, but I'd just finished running one of the bigger laps in my marathon learning curve on the subject, so I had a lot to say, names and figures fresh on my mind. I ended up describing the history and situation surrounding AIDS, (which I've not yet written about here), partly because it is SO incredibly revealing of the virology field as a whole, and also a really interesting story which illustrates the most important parts. Understand AIDS, and you understand a big part of Virology.

Unfortunately, it also upsets people enormously. So many bedrock assumptions about society are blown apart. Everybody in the room was ashen-faced after I'd talked for 10 minutes, and several left altogether, brows knitted. I know it sucks to hear hard things, but that's how learning sometimes works. Sometimes you can't sugar coat things. (And I'd tried. I was genuinely excited about all the things I'd discovered, so I wasn't in a dour frame of mind. It was like sharing treasure. I wasn't trying to frighten anybody. But imagine describing how nuclear fission works to somebody for whom it is also their first time learning about Hiroshima.)

However...

When I'm in the presence of an 'official' crowd, say in a doctor's office or hospital. Or even in a coffee shop with two or three other people who are 'experts' or just heavily personally invested in a specific belief system, it's almost like the air itself changes.

Words become harder to form, ideas become harder to pin down and properly express. When I was talking once with a doctor about Ketogenics, it was like he carried with himself a bubble reality where FAT KILLS; he had years of training and cultivation of an entire profession/industry's worth of stories and assumptions all ticking with self-assured authority together in a way which simply made no room for any alternative views. It's more than just alternative views weren't welcome. It's like they were charged differently and couldn't exist in the same space and time when people were actively believing in a different reality substrate. Like salt water fish in a fresh water pond. I'm not sure how to describe it except with metaphor and smilies, but I'm sure most people here have felt it.

I find I have to be at my absolute peek of power to be able to hold forth in such an 'official reality bubble'. And I've been training for this like a dog for years. I can do it, but not always.

My friend, she's smart and stubborn, but she's also a working mom, *not* trained in research, not devoted to reading things the way many of us here do. What chance does a regular person have under Official Bubble pressure?

She said, "The doctors and people sound so sure and I forget what I was going to say and I was just coming from a long day at work, and my husband wasn't there, and I'd been up all night..."

As I think on it now... I don't think it was that she was ignoring my advice and input. It was that she was bullied, energetically coerced.

It almost feels like there needs to be an advocacy system in place for such moments.

Thank-you, Fluffy for bringing this into focus.
 
I'm from a country in which is a law that all kids need to be vaccinated against everything except flu (that's your decision). I've read that if you don't vaccinate your kids you are legally prosecuted, and also harassed. You have to go to court and pay a fine of 2000 kn which is around 260 euros but most people I know live of around 2500 kn a month. My son is vaccinated with vaccinations which are prescribed for first 2-3 years of life because I didn't know anything about it prior that. So we got away with the rest of it because we didn't live in the same city where our doctor was and we didn't go to her. We got forgiven for our delay, postponing, because our kid was healthy all the time (we switched on paleo diet 3 years ago and that obviously held our immune system) and also he didn't go to little school- where I heard is also obligated to have a full vaccinated kid. My son fell last year from a higher ground and past out, he was ok , thank god,but the doctors gave him the false diagnose of a mild concussion( he got dehydrated while running on too hot day ), so the doctor postponed the vaccination for a few months which run out by now.
The law also says that kids with 6 years must go to little school, so I would have to sign in my kid next month and then the hell will appear. I'll have to officially refuse the leftover vaccination and go to court, I only hope everything will turn out right.
There's no way to change the law because there's as I've read in article less then 300 parents who've chosen not to vaccinate their kids.
Is there somebody here who went trough this process to give more info?
 
@Martina

That's rotten! I don't know what to advise other than the following general notes:

The laws for your specific country would have to be examined.

Two options are to either learn as much as you can about the legalities in your region, (how they work, how they can be fought, or loop-holed out from). If others are dealing with the same problems you are, then there may already be advocacy lawyers or groups you can contact to seek advice from. Networking is a powerful tool.

The other option is to leave the country and find residence in one where the laws are not quite so Orwellian wrt medicine. Perhaps start researching this and start listing the things you need to tick off in preparation for such a change; passports, employment requirements, money and travel arrangements, possible destinations and contacting networks in proposed regions, etc. Having a list of things to do and chipping away at them, (even if you do not go through with a move), goes a long way to giving the mind something to do, alleviates stress and opens doors and reveals possibilities you would not have considered previously. It also takes what feels like an overwhelming problem and shrinks it into manageable pieces, shows you that things are far more possible that you might have previously realized.

I have also found that documenting discoveries here on the SOTT forums as you research is a good way to stay focused, and it can also serve to help others in similar situations.
 
Woodsman said:
When I'm in the presence of an 'official' crowd, say in a doctor's office or hospital. Or even in a coffee shop with two or three other people who are 'experts' or just heavily personally invested in a specific belief system, it's almost like the air itself changes.

Words become harder to form, ideas become harder to pin down and properly express. When I was talking once with a doctor about Ketogenics, it was like he carried with himself a bubble reality where FAT KILLS; he had years of training and cultivation of an entire profession/industry's worth of stories and assumptions all ticking with self-assured authority together in a way which simply made no room for any alternative views. It's more than just alternative views weren't welcome. It's like they were charged differently and couldn't exist in the same space and time when people were actively believing in a different reality substrate. Like salt water fish in a fresh water pond. I'm not sure how to describe it except with metaphor and smilies, but I'm sure most people here have felt it.
Click to expand...

Woodsman, I know exactly the feeling that you are describing. I've experienced the same thing when talking to so called experts, doctors about vaccines, smoking, fat etc. I have come to think of it as though these authorities have "brain freeze". Their brains are unable to accept any information that runs contrary to their beliefs, and when they are actually exposed to anything outside their views, it's like the input doesn't compute for them and they just shut down. You could give them absolutely crystal clear, indisputable information and it would not penetrate their minds at all!
 
manitoban said:
Woodsman said:
When I'm in the presence of an 'official' crowd, say in a doctor's office or hospital. Or even in a coffee shop with two or three other people who are 'experts' or just heavily personally invested in a specific belief system, it's almost like the air itself changes.

Words become harder to form, ideas become harder to pin down and properly express. When I was talking once with a doctor about Ketogenics, it was like he carried with himself a bubble reality where FAT KILLS; he had years of training and cultivation of an entire profession/industry's worth of stories and assumptions all ticking with self-assured authority together in a way which simply made no room for any alternative views. It's more than just alternative views weren't welcome. It's like they were charged differently and couldn't exist in the same space and time when people were actively believing in a different reality substrate. Like salt water fish in a fresh water pond. I'm not sure how to describe it except with metaphor and smilies, but I'm sure most people here have felt it.
Click to expand...

Woodsman, I know exactly the feeling that you are describing. I've experienced the same thing when talking to so called experts, doctors about vaccines, smoking, fat etc. I have come to think of it as though these authorities have "brain freeze". Their brains are unable to accept any information that runs contrary to their beliefs, and when they are actually exposed to anything outside their views, it's like the input doesn't compute for them and they just shut down. You could give them absolutely crystal clear, indisputable information and it would not penetrate their minds at all!
Click to expand...

There's a reluctant audience, and then there's something else I want to explore a bit here. An energetic quality.

I've done a fair bit of public speaking, and there's a feedback loop which comes into play. With an enthusiastic and receptive audience, there is a willingness to accept what you are saying, a willingness to set themselves up for the next puzzle piece of a joke or idea or whatever being shared. You can feel that acceptance, and speaking becomes an easy flow. Everybody livens up and the room feels peppy, like a surplus of energy is gathering.

When you have a disinterested audience, the feedback loop breaks down, and you'll see people getting sleepy, eyes glazing. If you read this correctly, (some presenters don't and just keep going, creating those dull, hell-on-earth lecture experiences), then you know to speed things up, or jump subjects to ones which your audience can understand or relate better with. You have to ride the presentation at the level and speed of the audience's ability and desire to travel with you.

It's the sleepy/peppy part which interests me. It's really pronounced.

I mean, would people, if they were just sitting normally in a chair on their own, start to glaze over and feel that tired? Or would they grow excited and 'energized' (as by a good presentation) if they were similarly alone under otherwise identical circumstances? I don't think so.

This leads me to thinking that maybe there is an energetic transfer/sharing going on.

When talking about an unwanted subject, (vaccinations for instance) with an aggressively resistant person or group, what happens to this energy/information flow then?

I am pondering this because I don't just see brain freeze in the recipient , but in myself as well during such discussions.

It's like a feeling of disorientation or 'stuckness'. Where the information I try to share suddenly feels like it really may be false and feeble, despite my knowing all the facts line up.

My friend was able to understand the ideas behind Virology that I'd shared with her, but found herself unable to express them or even bring them up in the presence of doctors and Official Medicine.

I wonder if this isn't an ephemeral kind of 3D reality-creation, just not as pronounced as the variable reality described at 4th density, where what you wish for becomes solid?

What happens when two 4th Density beings disagree on what form their immediate reality should take?
 
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