Frustration with wishful thinking

Inti said:
Are there other people who have felt/feel this frustration (I can see Mada85 probably does!)? If so, could you perhaps explain your practices and realisations

Yes, I do sometimes have these frustrations.

Practices are as already described in this thread by anart, Pepperfritz and others .

This learning does not come from intellectual thought alone. I don't think you can just "figure" it out theoretically and have complete success. One must also apply the information and observe results. By observing the moment of frustration and rather than expressing it, holding it and questioning it - Listening for any related thoughts.

Realizations:

I think that a lot of the frustration in my case is due to "wishful thinking". Some of my I's cling to "If only everyone would wake up and we could fix the situation". As I become more aware (bit by bit) of how this is wishful thinking, the frustration is lessening.

In a recent piece of work here, I think that I got a glimpse of the level of my identification. As I have been processing this, I have been able to a small extent to generalize the principle and see how I am also at times identified with my wishful thinking. I then get frustrated that the masses won't wake up.

Having been here reading SOTT for over a year now, I am not so shocked by the masses being so quick to "buy" the "hope of Obama". Following along with the others on the forum here, it seemed rather predictable given all the information offered here - on ponerology and Machiavellian tactics just to name two topics.

What is really scary to me is that I may also have bought into the "hope of Obama" had I not found SOTT.

In the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind, the wizard's first rule is:

"People are stupid. They will believe any lie if they want it to be true or if they are afraid it is true."

If we substitute "asleep" for "stupid", I think we have seen this rule in action repeatedly over the past years. The PTB get people to believe in Al Queda because people are afraid it is true and they (the PTB) get people to believe Obama holds hope for us because the people want it to be true. And, after 8 years of Georgie and friends, who would not want it to be true? I certainly wish Obama held real hope. The only difference between the masses and myself is that I found a forum where people are working to wake up and I decided to join in. Thankfully.
 
I think that a lot of the frustration in my case is due to "wishful thinking". Some of my I's cling to "If only everyone would wake up and we could fix the situation
Thankyou Fireshadow for your input and your words above. I can see myself also wishing people would wake up, even though I can also see that my wishing it will not necessarily make it happen or fix any situation.
Thankyou PepperFritz for all the links you provided. I can see how my frustration puts me in danger of becoming a petty tyrant myself. I also appreciate the link to the Obama thread, which lead to some interesting realisations. I did not read the entire Obama thread, but the first few pages, and SAO's post struck me as being quite similar to my view. I quote it below:
Well, Obama won. Both McCain and Obama reminded everyone in their speeches that if anyone doubts that America is still free and has fully functional democracy, then this election should somehow prove that fact (not sure how..). Obama said the government is still by the people, of the people, and for the people. I mean, can a lie be more blatant than that? That has never been true in America's history ever, and especially not now. So right there he's either really naive or a liar. Some argue that he has to "pretend" to play along with the PTB so he can get power and undermine them somehow. But what is the basis of this idea? This could be said about any politician in history of humanity that sold ideas of hope and change, but so far that never happened. Why should now be suddenly different?

It never happened before because it is impossible, it is the people and only the people who can change things. But if Obama keeps lying to the people about their true situation and actively helps maintain their sleep and comfortable illusions, then how is he going to change anything? Americans have been prepared by the media to expect an assassination, and that's basically a message to Obama to always keep in mind the hand that feeds him, and how easily that food can be deprived.

What power does Obama have behind the scenes? Remember what "V" said, a man can be stopped, killed, shut down. An idea cannot. Until Obama starts telling the people the truth (which he hasn't been, and obviously will not suddenly start in the future) there is no idea behind him, he's just a man. And as a man he's powerless. Unfortunately historically anybody that went directly to the people and started telling them the truth kinda got shot.

But as the C's say, let's wait and see. There is no better proof of a pudding (or rotten fruit) than in the eating. Chances are, Obama will not openly defy Americans. He will just be "forced" into things by circumstance. Bad things will just "happen" and poor Obama will be forced to respond. Of course the real source of those bad things will be hidden from us and we'll be asked to trust our government when they tell us the nature of the problem and how it must be solved. We cannot ask for evidence because that's a matter of national security, as always. Fortunately, wishful thinking leaves lots of holes, which SOTT will inevitably find and put on display. But for how much longer?

Watching all those hopeful and happy/crying faces tonight was unsettling

Even reading it a scathing sensation arose. I couldn't help but notice SAO's avatar with a V like mask. Which lead me to thinking about V. Overall I liked the film, but some things I didn't like about it were the hero/liberator image in V; I also found the end unbelievable and saw the mask wearing masses as slightly robotic and sheep-like. Anyway, I noticed there was a V thread and decided to read it. What I found was some people wanting hope, for example:
So keep up hope, there are some who are aware
the strongest feeling i had while watching the movie, was during the scene when the mass of people wearing V-masks shows up.
This subject has exercised me also. I mean, once you truly understand the nature of the psychopath, what to do about it? Once you know that they are truly mad-dog, consciencless killers under a mask of sanity, in a three piece suit, what do you do about it? And most particularly, what do you do about it when they are in positions of almost absolute power?

When you see the scenario as set up in the movie, V for Vendetta, you can see that it is almost exactly the problem we face. How do you get such creatures as that OUT of power?

And then Michael Martin comes up with:
If it is,

Quote
So, how to deal with that fact? How to deal with it in terms of the future of Free Will and Freedom for All of humanity?
I remember the C's saying that those who 'learn their lessons' will advance and those who don't will repeat the cycle, until the 'time' comes again to possibly 'graduate'.

If we, as non-psychopaths, need psychopaths as a means to 'learn our lessons' and 'grow', there needn't be any anger directed toward the psychopaths that are ruling over us now. If this 'relationship' is understood, it is much like a wildlife scientist not getting angry with a predator stalking, catching and killing its prey. The 'subjective' point of view of the prey is to get angry at its predator. The 'objective' point of view of the observing scientist is that this is the normal flow of events. As is it is also normal for the prey to eventually learn to escape and outwit its predator as time passes by.


I wonder if changing the psychopathic status quo would prevent other non-psychopathic people from learning their lessons on their own because the psychopaths would not be there to prey on them. It would be more apt, imho, if the non-psychopaths who already know how to outwit the psychopaths teach the other non-psychopaths how to outwit their predators, rather than 'destroying' (or incapacitating) the predators outright.

Perhaps, in my case, I can exchange the word "psychopath" with "wishful thinker" here and see that by wanting change I am not accepting the way things are?
 
T.Illion, in the book Darkness Over Tibet makes some interesting comments that may relate to the idea of wanting to wake up the New Age wishful thinkers. On page 153 he writes about how he wonders whether to tell the truth to a man who "believes" he has found the answers and salvation.

"The poor, kindhearted man! He thought he was in the city of a Great Light Power, and the thought that I did not want “salvation” made him sad.
For a moment I contemplated whether I should tell him bluntly that he really was in the city of the Evil One, but strange to say I felt that I could not.
For spiritual realizations entail enormous spiritual responsibilities. Even the Powers of Evil have their spiritual mission. They snatch souls if men themselves give them up. By his spiritual sins man himself weakens the ties which link him to his soul, and the more he sins spiritually the more he strikes himself with blindness until he can no longer see the difference between God and the Creator, no matter how high are his occult accomplishments. The devil tempts, but he can only seize souls that voluntarily yield to his temptations.
That is a law of the universe. I felt I could save no one from the Evil One. By telling Narbu that the Exalted Jewel was identical with the Prince of Darkness I should have influenced his spiritual destiny, which lay in his own hands. I felt I had no right to do that for the supreme spiritual law is absolutely free choice by every individual. Man himself can choose resplendent light, but he himself can also throw himself down into the bottomless abyss from whence there is no return."
 
Inti said:
Thanks, Anart, I will try it, but I can see I will find it difficult. I think it will feel like I am showing them a false self. But I suspect the exercise to be revealing.

Hi Inti, have you read any Gurdjieff?  It might be worthwhile to begin to do so if you are truly interested in making progress in this area. To sum up, you are concerned about 'showing a false self' - when you ARE a false self as you are right now - and when those who are wishfully thinking are so sound asleep as to not know who your real self might even be.

In short, you are concerned with 'lying' when all you do, every day all your life is lie.  This will make more sense after you've read the material, but here is a piece entitled First Initiation by Mme de Salzmann that explains it quite well:

Mme de Salzmann said:
You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! None of this strikes your attention. And yet this is what keeps one world separate from another world.

You have no measure with which to measure yourselves. You live exclusively according to “I like” or “I don’t like,” you have no appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you—theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes and dislikes.

Yes, your “appreciation of yourself” blinds you. It is the biggest obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle, this threshold, before going further. This test divides men into two kinds: the “wheat” and the “chaff.” No matter how intelligent, how gifted, how brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his appreciation of himself, there will be no hope for an inner development, for a work toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming. He will remain such as he is all his life. The first requirement, the first condition, the first test for one who wishes to work on himself is to change his appreciation of himself. He must not imagine, not simply believe or think, but see things in himself which he has never seen before, see them actually. His appreciation will never be able to change as long as he sees nothing in himself. And in order to see, he must learn to see; this is the first initiation of man into self-knowledge.

First of all, he has to know what he must look at. When he knows, he must make efforts, keep his attention, look constantly with persistence. Only through maintaining his attention, and not forgetting to look, one day, perhaps, he will be able to see. If he sees one time he can see a second time, and if that continues he will no longer be able not to see. This is the state to be looked for, it is the aim of our observation; it is from there that the true wish will be born, the irresistible wish to become: from cold we shall become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by our reality.

Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And my relations with others will be governed by the same respect.

You must understand that all the other measures—talent, education, culture, genius—are changing measures, measures of detail. The only exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the measure of inner vision. I see—I see myself—by this, you have measured. With one higher real part, you have measured another lower part, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of each part, will lead you to respect for yourself.

But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must pay dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must pay, pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with yourself. By sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more you are prepared to pay without economizing, without cheating, without any falsification, the more you will receive. And from that time on you will become acquainted with your nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the dishonesties that your nature resorts to in order to avoid paying hard cash. Because you have to pay with your ready-made theories, with your rooted convictions, with your prejudices, your conventions, your “I like” and “I don’t like.” Without bargaining, honestly, without pretending. Trying “sincerely” to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others—lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions—lies. Your teaching—lies. Your theories, your art—lies. Your social life, your family life—lies. And what you think of yourself—lies also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day. You will see that you are different from what you think you are. You will see that you are two. One who is not, but takes the place and plays the role of the other. And one who is, yet so weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner appears than he immediately disappears. He cannot endure lies. The least lie makes him faint away. He does not struggle, he does not resist, he is defeated in advance. Learn to look until you have seen the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the lies, the deception in yourself. When you have seen your two natures, that day, in yourself, the truth will be born.
 
I guess it is an "old school/kinda churchy" concept, but I believe that putting yourself in someone else's shoes applies here.
When I think of the effort it took me to get HERE and to even begin scratching the surface of what's going on around this planet, I really can't blame those who just can't seem do it. It was a colossal (and lonely) uphill battle for me and sometimes I think that even I would like to shut off my brain and just eat up the pre-chewed garbage that's dished out to me every day because it seems so much easier. When you combine the social conditioning, starting in school, with church, government and media, it's a wonder that any one ever wakes up. I'm not sure of the numbers of people involved in SOTT and all of the Cassiopaean groups but I think it's safe to say that sorting through all of the lies to find truth takes an entire team and if you don't have that as a resource it's just too hard. I for one feel thankful- thankful that i got to where i am more or less in one piece(who knows what the wireless internet has done to my brain) and thankful that i am not alone in my quest. As for everyone else, I suppose that I could be accused of wishful thinking in hoping that others will one day have the strength to wake up too.
Rx
 
Inti said:
Are there other people who have felt/feel this frustration (I can see Mada85 probably does!)? If so, could you perhaps explain your practices and realisations?

I came back to this thread today and found that it’s grown and become very interesting. Thanks Inti for starting it. I would like to share some thoughts:

Anart said:
. . . being so upset that they are so deeply asleep and dreaming doesn't make much sense unless, on some level, you believe that it relates directly to you, or reflects directly on you - that it is, on some level 'about you'.

Anart, this is a very profound point, and relevant to me personally. One the one hand, it is easy intellectually to say, ‘Yeah, OK, that’s their thing…’, but in the moment, viscerally, what arises in me is this strong feeling/program that whatever the other’s reaction/state of being etc may be, is somehow my fault or responsibility.

Anart said:
just nod and agree with them

I’ve tried that sometimes in the past, but the feeling of personal responsibility is usually so strong that I want to argue, debate, preach and generally try to convert the person to my way of thinking, which I am convinced is the right and only one. Also, ‘just nod and agree with them’ looks like weakness. Aren’t people weak minded and in need of a stronger mind to show them how the world really is? Jeez, now I’m describing my father!

Reading through that last paragraph, it seems I’ve inherited wholesale a program from my father. He behaved like that towards me and to others, family and non-family alike, when I was growing up (as far as my memories of him go).

Anart said:
Most of the people in my day to day life think that I view the world the way they do - this is due to conscious effort on my part, since it makes life easier for them and for myself; it maintains my strategic enclosure.

I’ve never thought of the strategic enclosure in this way before. It’s literally a way of hiding in plain sight so as to protect oneself. It could almost be called ‘manipulation’, and perhaps from one perspective it is. But it is only manipulating machines. Very interesting.

Anart said:
As Gurdjieff said, "sincerity with everyone is a weakness".

And yet we’re programmed from birth to believe the opposite.

Anart said:

It is worth a lot. Thank you.
 
mada85 said:
Reading through that last paragraph, it seems I’ve inherited wholesale a program from my father. He behaved like that towards me and to others, family and non-family alike, when I was growing up (as far as my memories of him go).

It's another face of self-importance.  Others must conform to or abide by his (our?) understanding of things, else be 'set straight' on the matter - rather narcissistic, eh?

mada85 said:
It could almost be called ‘manipulation’, and perhaps from one perspective it is. But it is only manipulating machines.

Well, that is a fine line I think, and I tend to disagree with the use of the word manipulation here.  I'm simply making life easier for them and easier for me - external consideration via keeping silent.  I'm not actively convincing anyone of anything, for any reason.  I'm just allowing them to see what they choose to see and ignore what they choose to ignore.  I learned quite a while ago that 'telling someone the truth' is almost always not what is being asked for - so to do so is inner-considering - at least, this is my current understanding.

Now, if someone is sincerely interested in my viewpoint on things, then I try to respond accordingly and in a way that is appropriate for that person's understanding - the discernment comes into play when determining what is actually being asked.  I'm still working on that one, since it can be quite difficult to tell at times...
 
anart said:
... rather narcissistic, eh? ...

Yes, it is. Takes time to wrestle with a program that has been running for all one's life.

mada85 said:
Anart said:
. . . being so upset that they are so deeply asleep and dreaming doesn't make much sense unless, on some level, you believe that it relates directly to you, or reflects directly on you - that it is, on some level 'about you'.

Anart, this is a very profound point, and relevant to me personally. One the one hand, it is easy intellectually to say, ‘Yeah, OK, that’s their thing…’, but in the moment, viscerally, what arises in me is this strong feeling/program that whatever the other’s reaction/state of being etc may be, is somehow my fault or responsibility.

It is easy to say, people are what they are. Gotta keep trying. With me, seems there gets to be a boiling point where I just gotta let it out. I haven't found a better way of letting off steam than this forum, except maybe talking to myself while driving the car. Is it bad to converse with yourself? I cannot thank you all so very much for putting up with my emotional outbursts. Then again, I know (logically) that it's very egotistical to spout off how stupid people are, can be. I tell myself that I am NOT better that anyone, but the feeling of superiority is an old program with deep roots. As I work on this, it does diminish, but seems to not simply go away. Kinda like a printed circuit board, where there is a weak bypass and sometimes leakage gets through.
 
To sum up, you are concerned about 'showing a false self' - when you ARE a false self as you are right now - and when those who are wishfully thinking are so sound asleep as to not know who your real self might even be.
:lol: Thanks Anart for revealing the absurdity of that statement!
Now, if someone is sincerely interested in my viewpoint on things, then I try to respond accordingly and in a way that is appropriate for that person's understanding - the discernment comes into play when determining what is actually being asked. I'm still working on that one, since it can be quite difficult to tell at times...
Yes, very difficult to work out if someone is sincerely interested...
 
To sum up, you are concerned about 'showing a false self' - when you ARE a false self as you are right now - and when those who are wishfully thinking are so sound asleep as to not know who your real self might even be.

Although absurd, it also strikes me as very sad.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others—lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions—lies. Your teaching—lies. Your theories, your art—lies. Your social life, your family life—lies. And what you think of yourself—lies also.
It's a difficult pill to swallow....if everything about me and all my relationships are false...
And makes me wonder if there is such a thing as truth or real friendship or if I can ever get to it.
 
Inti said:
To sum up, you are concerned about 'showing a false self' - when you ARE a false self as you are right now - and when those who are wishfully thinking are so sound asleep as to not know who your real self might even be.

Although absurd, it also strikes me as very sad.

And part of the 'horror of the situation'.

inti said:
Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself.
It's a difficult pill to swallow....if everything about me and all my relationships are false...
And makes me wonder if there is such a thing as truth or real friendship or if I can ever get to it.

Well, if there isn't then I can't imagine much of a point to this life at all. I think Gurdjieff alludes to what it takes to 'get to it' in the title to his last book in the 'All and Everything Series' - - LIFE IS ONLY REAL, THEN WHEN 'I AM'
 
Inti said:
Are there other people who have felt/feel this frustration (I can see Mada85 probably does!)? If so, could you perhaps explain your practices and realisations

I have had similar feelings as well. In another thread, I believe I referred to feeling that it was a violation of my personal integrity if I didn't 'speak up' under certain circumstances.
Well, what I didn't mention is the connection to free-will as I understand it.

The two major parts in this issue as I see it:
1) Ones relationship to self: Ruthless honesty is a virtue here. As long as you know what and why you are doing, with regard to the strategic enclosure and external consideration, there is no deception involved, thus no 'wrong' to which justice can be applied.

2a) Ones relationship to others (genuine seekers "asking"): discernment is a virtue here.
Re:
anart said:
Now, if someone is sincerely interested in my viewpoint on things, then I try to respond accordingly and in a way that is appropriate for that person's understanding - the discernment comes into play when determining what is actually being asked. I'm still working on that one, since it can be quite difficult to tell at times...

2b) Ones relationship to others (sleepers): Resolute commitment to respect free-will is a virtue here.

In order to come to terms with the free-will connection, I had to realize that one may not initiate force, under any circumstances, against anyone, in order to take what is rightfully theirs. It may help to expand ones understanding of 'force' to include the minor forms of 'coercion' and 'fraud' to more fully grasp this.

Everyone has their own beliefs, thoughts, opinions, illusions, etc. These things are their property. They accepted them, bought them, stole them, built them, whatever, but the wishful thoughts are theirs. They're entitled to hold onto them if they choose.

Anyone in this Work who imagines they have any right to take another person's lies away from them, would benefit from the following exercise:

Imagine yourself in a situation where you feel compelled to straighten someone out, or feed them truth. Now, take away the physical body and anything else substantial enough to apply physical contact to in order to 'make an impact'. There's just the two of you conscious entities. Now replay the conversation, argument, or whatever. Observe that the other person is absorbing everything you say, yet still clings to their ideas. What are you going to do? Nothing. What can you do? Nothing. Then why did you even let it get to that point, I ask myself?

Answer: Because I'm right! I worked hard for this knowledge! I'm damn well entitled to feel my righteousness!

Well, ok. But the "I" who is trying to collect his "due", is a program. My job is to dissolve programs, so, Bye-Bye.


If I'm missing anything here, or I'm wrong about something, please correct me.
 
anart said:
Inti said:
Thanks, Anart, I will try it, but I can see I will find it difficult. I think it will feel like I am showing them a false self. But I suspect the exercise to be revealing.

Hi Inti, have you read any Gurdjieff? It might be worthwhile to begin to do so if you are truly interested in making progress in this area. To sum up, you are concerned about 'showing a false self' - when you ARE a false self as you are right now - and when those who are wishfully thinking are so sound asleep as to not know who your real self might even be.

In short, you are concerned with 'lying' when all you do, every day all your life is lie. This will make more sense after you've read the material, but here is a piece entitled First Initiation by Mme de Salzmann that explains it quite well:\


Sometimes ones own words are a lesson for themself, consider the term mirror.

Mme de Salzmann said:
You will see that in life you receive exactly what you give. Your life is the mirror of what you are. It is in your image. You are passive, blind, demanding. You take all, you accept all, without feeling any obligation. Your attitude toward the world and toward life is the attitude of one who has the right to make demands and to take, who has no need to pay or to earn. You believe that all things are your due, simply because it is you! All your blindness is there! None of this strikes your attention. And yet this is what keeps one world separate from another world.

You have no measure with which to measure yourselves. You live exclusively according to “I like” or “I don’t like,” you have no appreciation except for yourself. You recognize nothing above you—theoretically, logically, perhaps, but actually no. That is why you are demanding and continue to believe that everything is cheap and that you have enough in your pocket to buy everything you like. You recognize nothing above you, either outside yourself or inside. That is why, I repeat, you have no measure and live passively according to your likes and dislikes.

Yes, your “appreciation of yourself” blinds you. It is the biggest obstacle to a new life. You must be able to get over this obstacle, this threshold, before going further. This test divides men into two kinds: the “wheat” and the “chaff.” No matter how intelligent, how gifted, how brilliant a man may be, if he does not change his appreciation of himself, there will be no hope for an inner development, for a work toward self-knowledge, for a true becoming. He will remain such as he is all his life. The first requirement, the first condition, the first test for one who wishes to work on himself is to change his appreciation of himself. He must not imagine, not simply believe or think, but see things in himself which he has never seen before, see them actually. His appreciation will never be able to change as long as he sees nothing in himself. And in order to see, he must learn to see; this is the first initiation of man into self-knowledge.

First of all, he has to know what he must look at. When he knows, he must make efforts, keep his attention, look constantly with persistence. Only through maintaining his attention, and not forgetting to look, one day, perhaps, he will be able to see. If he sees one time he can see a second time, and if that continues he will no longer be able not to see. This is the state to be looked for, it is the aim of our observation; it is from there that the true wish will be born, the irresistible wish to become: from cold we shall become warm, vibrant; we shall be touched by our reality.

Today we have nothing but the illusion of what we are. We think too highly of ourselves. We do not respect ourselves. In order to respect myself, I have to recognize a part in myself which is above the other parts, and my attitude toward this part should bear witness to the respect that I have for it. In this way I shall respect myself. And my relations with others will be governed by the same respect.

You must understand that all the other measures—talent, education, culture, genius—are changing measures, measures of detail. The only exact measure, the only unchanging, objective real measure is the measure of inner vision. I see—I see myself—by this, you have measured. With one higher real part, you have measured another lower part, also real. And this measure, defining by itself the role of each part, will lead you to respect for yourself.

But you will see that it is not easy. And it is not cheap. You must pay dearly. For bad payers, lazy people, parasites, no hope. You must pay, pay a lot, and pay immediately, pay in advance. Pay with yourself. By sincere, conscientious, disinterested efforts. The more you are prepared to pay without economizing, without cheating, without any falsification, the more you will receive. And from that time on you will become acquainted with your nature. And you will see all the tricks, all the dishonesties that your nature resorts to in order to avoid paying hard cash. Because you have to pay with your ready-made theories, with your rooted convictions, with your prejudices, your conventions, your “I like” and “I don’t like.” Without bargaining, honestly, without pretending. Trying “sincerely” to see as you offer your counterfeit money.

Try for a moment to accept the idea that you are not what you believe yourself to be, that you overestimate yourself, in fact that you lie to yourself. That you always lie to yourself every moment, all day, all your life. That this lying rules you to such an extent that you cannot control it any more. You are the prey of lying. You lie, everywhere. Your relations with others—lies. The upbringing you give, the conventions—lies. Your teaching—lies. Your theories, your art—lies. Your social life, your family life—lies. And what you think of yourself—lies also.

But you never stop yourself in what you are doing or in what you are saying because you believe in yourself. You must stop inwardly and observe. Observe without preconceptions, accepting for a time this idea of lying. And if you observe in this way, paying with yourself, without self-pity, giving up all your supposed riches for a moment of reality, perhaps you will suddenly see something you have never before seen in yourself until this day. You will see that you are different from what you think you are. You will see that you are two. One who is not, but takes the place and plays the role of the other. And one who is, yet so weak, so insubstantial, that he no sooner appears than he immediately disappears. He cannot endure lies. The least lie makes him faint away. He does not struggle, he does not resist, he is defeated in advance. Learn to look until you have seen the difference between your two natures, until you have seen the lies, the deception in yourself. When you have seen your two natures, that day, in yourself, the truth will be born.

Sometimes
 
John said:
Sometimes ones own words are a lesson for themself, consider the term mirror.

Hi John, I am unclear as to who this is directed at: Anart, me, both of us, all of us?

I have also read some of your other recent posts and would be interested to hear about your learning and what has brought you to this site. If you have already written about this, I would be grateful for you to direct me to where it is posted.
 
Inti said:
John said:
Sometimes ones own words are a lesson for themself, consider the term mirror.

Hi John, I am unclear as to who this is directed at: Anart, me, both of us, all of us?

I have also read some of your other recent posts and would be interested to hear about your learning and what has brought you to this site. If you have already written about this, I would be grateful for you to direct me to where it is posted.

John was removed from the forum. Judging by his nonsensical and noisy posts, it's clear that playing his game is a waste of time and energy. It appears he's been a member since 2006 (and reappeared yesterday after a long period of silence), and there already were issues with him at the time. Check this thread.
It seems he hasn't changed since 2006.
 

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