Gays 'will never go to heaven'

[dannybananny]

From correspondents in Vatican City, http://www.heraldsun.com.au

HOMOSEXUALS and transsexuals "will never enter the kingdom of heaven", a leading Roman Catholic cardinal said overnight.

Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan said that while the Church regarded homosexuality as an "insult to God", this did not justify discrimination against gay and transsexual people.

"Transsexuals and homosexuals will never enter the kingdom of heaven and it is not me who says this, but Saint Paul," the cardinal said, in comments reported by the Ansa news agency.

"People are not born homosexual, they become homosexual, for different reasons: education issues or because they did not develop their own identity during adolescence. It may not be their fault, but acting against nature and the dignity of the human body is an insult to God," he said.

Cardinal Barragan, the retired head of the Vatican's Council for Pastoral Assistance to Health Care Workers, quoted a passage from Paul's epistle to the Romans which speaks of "men committing indecent acts with other men".

"Homosexuality is therefore a sin, but this does not justify any form of discrimination. God alone has the right to judge," the cardinal said. "We on earth cannot condemn, and as human beings we all have the same rights."

How contradictory-he doesn't have nothing against them but his God, his church, and St.Paul does and he is a part of that church and believes in her teachings that are against gays.
Why is church against gays - maybe because if there is more gays, there all less children born, and there is less believers, so there is less income and with it power and influence!

 

[Oxajil]

Or to create more confusion and putting people up against each other, causing hate, misunderstanding and discrimination! Dividing people.

That's why I think Paleochristianity will appeal to many people, especially homo- and transsexuals.

 

[samii]

Besides culture and upbringing, I also think reincarnation has a strong influence on homosexuality. Just imagine someone having a previous life (immediate one) as an opposite sex. I’ve seen programs where children are not happy with their gender!

Yet monotheism doesn’t allow reincarnation, that’s why I guess homosexuality is strongly prohibited. Can someone else elaborate further on this because I feel I’m defending homosexuality even though I have strong programs against them?

 

[Joe]

"People are not born homosexual, they become homosexual, for different reasons: education issues or because they did not develop their own identity during adolescence. It may not be their fault, but acting against nature and the dignity of the human body is an insult to God," he said.

Someone should inform this Cardinal that, if this is true, then there are tens of thousands of young boys around the world who may have become homosexual because of sexual abuse by members of the catholic church. I would also like him to opine on the likely eligibility for "heaven" of the tens of thousands of catholic priests, bishops, cardinals etc who abused young boys.

 

[Brenda86]

"People are not born homosexual, they become homosexual, for different reasons: education issues or because they did not develop their own identity during adolescence. It may not be their fault, but acting against nature and the dignity of the human body is an insult to God," he said.

Someone should inform this Cardinal that, if this is true, then there are tens of thousands of young boys around the world who may have become homosexual because of sexual abuse by members of the catholic church. I would also like him to opine on the likely eligibility for "heaven" of the tens of thousands of catholic priests, bishops, cardinals etc who abused young boys.

Having grown up Catholic (though obviously not Catholic anymore), I can attest honestly to many of the things I've heard different priests and even laypeople say regarding homosexuality and sexual abuse by priests.

I remember specifically both the head priest of my parish as well as my grandmother saying that, "Evil is after priests and holy people much more greatly than regular people. We have to be forgiving and understanding when it comes to the failings of our priests." - IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO TALKS ABOUT A SEXUAL ABUSE SCANDAL.

I've also had both a priest and a catechism teacher tell me that it is not even enough for a homosexual to STOP ACTING ON THE URGES but that they must also STOP FEELING THE URGES in order to get into heaven. And yet it's okay for a priest to have the bad thoughts and NOT ACT ON THEM in regards to wanting to sexually abuse young boys because THEY ARE BEING PERSONALLY HOUNDED BY DEMONS and we must forgive them.

I think it's obvious why I became so disenchanted with my church...

 

[Joe]

"People are not born homosexual, they become homosexual, for different reasons: education issues or because they did not develop their own identity during adolescence. It may not be their fault, but acting against nature and the dignity of the human body is an insult to God," he said.

Someone should inform this Cardinal that, if this is true, then there are tens of thousands of young boys around the world who may have become homosexual because of sexual abuse by members of the catholic church. I would also like him to opine on the likely eligibility for "heaven" of the tens of thousands of catholic priests, bishops, cardinals etc who abused young boys.

Having grown up Catholic (though obviously not Catholic anymore), I can attest honestly to many of the things I've heard different priests and even laypeople say regarding homosexuality and sexual abuse by priests.

I remember specifically both the head priest of my parish as well as my grandmother saying that, "Evil is after priests and holy people much more greatly than regular people. We have to be forgiving and understanding when it comes to the failings of our priests." - IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO TALKS ABOUT A SEXUAL ABUSE SCANDAL.

It's not that Evil is after priests and holy people much more greatly than regular people, it's that evil lives in priests and holy people much more greatly than regular people because their willful acceptance of illusion and lies is greater than that of the average person. Evil thrives in the darkness of ignorance and self-deception.

 

[Brenda86]

"People are not born homosexual, they become homosexual, for different reasons: education issues or because they did not develop their own identity during adolescence. It may not be their fault, but acting against nature and the dignity of the human body is an insult to God," he said.

Someone should inform this Cardinal that, if this is true, then there are tens of thousands of young boys around the world who may have become homosexual because of sexual abuse by members of the catholic church. I would also like him to opine on the likely eligibility for "heaven" of the tens of thousands of catholic priests, bishops, cardinals etc who abused young boys.

Having grown up Catholic (though obviously not Catholic anymore), I can attest honestly to many of the things I've heard different priests and even laypeople say regarding homosexuality and sexual abuse by priests.

I remember specifically both the head priest of my parish as well as my grandmother saying that, "Evil is after priests and holy people much more greatly than regular people. We have to be forgiving and understanding when it comes to the failings of our priests." - IN DIRECT RESPONSE TO TALKS ABOUT A SEXUAL ABUSE SCANDAL.

It's not that Evil is after priests and holy people much more greatly than regular people, it's that evil lives in priests and holy people much more greatly than regular people because their willful acceptance of illusion and lies is greater than that of the average person. Evil thrives in the darkness of ignorance and self-deception.

Agreed. I was often flabbergasted by their "excuses". I felt they should be held to a higher standard - they felt the bar should be lowered because of their "unique circumstances".

 

[Buddy]

"People are not born homosexual, they become homosexual, for different reasons: education issues or because they did not develop their own identity during adolescence. It may not be their fault, but acting against nature and the dignity of the human body is an insult to God," he said.

Someone should inform this Cardinal that, if this is true, then there are tens of thousands of young boys around the world who may have become homosexual because of sexual abuse by members of the catholic church. I would also like him to opine on the likely eligibility for "heaven" of the tens of thousands of catholic priests, bishops, cardinals etc who abused young boys.

Most emphatically agree. What happened to "Cast the beam out of your own eye first, so that you can see clearly to..." and 'setting the example for others to follow?'

I've been thinking about this in the context of individuals both promoting and denying their own twisted views on things. Obviously, people such as Cardinal Barragan can't afford to seriously consider taking a hard look at how other people view him and his 'pronouncements' (avoiding the mirror), so wouldn't this be more like trying to convince themselves that what they believe is true...that they are speaking mainly to their own supporters (the hidden agenda to create discord)?

After all, the damage that's done between people occurs mainly between the rank and file as a result of listening to and believing in this crap, and setting about to 'fix things, right?' Just curious.

 

[Arctodus]

And all this from a member of an organization that wears dresses and raped and is continuing to rape boys and girls in huge numbers.

And people _still_ haven't completely cut them off?!? No mind, go back to

 

[David]

As far as the last word as I understand it was “the Kingdom of heaven was in everyone”

Paul's epistle to the Romans which speaks of "men committing indecent acts with other men". he may have been talking in regard to something beyond the base sexual preferences, but more so acts between men, ones that only have regard to power & control.

To me a caged bird out of fear may well become hateful caged bird, be it a gay, straight or bisexual one bird at that.

 

[anart]

Yes, it's all so sick and twisted it's laughable - if it weren't true and if people didn't suffer mightily for it - and I mean suffer mightily.

As a person who happens to be gay, I don't really care to share a heaven with the likes of Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan - or anyone who would take his words as truth, but that's just me.

I do admit it would be very nice if everyone on this planet - straights, gays, trannies, and everything in between, would just see each other as human beings who deeply need to be loved, and to love.

That would be a heaven I'd like to be a part of.

As far as pedophiles - according to the data I'm aware of on that, the vast majority are straight males - though there's no question the priesthood breeds (or attracts) its own vile species of that pathology.

All in all, the phrase that the Earth benefits from a periodic cleansing keeps coming to mind...

 

[Turgon]

From male killer whales that ride the dorsal fin of another male to female bonobos that rub their genitals together, the animal kingdom tolerates all kinds of lifestyles.

A first-ever museum display, "Against Nature?," which opened last month at the University of Oslo's Natural History Museum in Norway, presents 51 species of animals exhibiting homosexuality.

"Homosexuality has been observed in more than 1,500 species, and the phenomenon has been well described for 500 of them," said Petter Bockman, project coordinator of the exhibition.

The idea, however, is rarely discussed in the scientific community and is often dismissed as unnatural because it doesn't appear to benefit the larger cause of species continuation.

"I think to some extent people don't think it's important because we went through all this time period in sociobiology where everything had to be tied to reproduction and reproductive success," said Linda Wolfe, who heads the Department of Anthropology at East Carolina University. "If it doesn't have [something to do] with reproduction it's not important."

For pleasure
However, species continuation may not always be the ultimate goal, as many animals, including humans, engage in sexual activities more than is necessary for reproduction.

"You can make up all kinds of stories: Oh it's for dominance, it's for this, it's for that, but when it comes down to the bottom I think it's just for sexual pleasure," Wolfe told LiveScience.

Conversely, some argue that homosexual sex could have a bigger natural cause than just pure pleasure: namely evolutionary benefits.

Copulation could be used for alliance and protection among animals of the same sex. In situations when a species is mostly bisexual, homosexual relationships allow an animal to join a pack.

"In bonobos for instance, strict heterosexual individuals would not be able to make friends in the flock and thus never be able to breed," Bockman told LiveScience. "In some bird species that bond for life, homosexual pairs raise young. If they are females, a male may fertilize their eggs. If they are males, a solitary female may mate with them and deposit her eggs in their nest."

Mom and Dad and Dad
Almost a quarter of black swan families are parented by homosexual couples. Male couples sometimes mate with a female just to have a baby. Once she lays the egg, they chase her away, hatch the egg, and raise a family on their own.

"Homosexuality" and "heterosexuality" are terms defined by societal boundaries, invisible in the animal kingdom.

"Many species are hermaphrodites," Bockman said. Hermaphrodites have both male and female sex organs. A lot of marine species have no sex life at all, but just squirt their eggs or semen into sea.

Some creatures even reproduce asexually, by dividing themselves into two organisms. In one species of gecko, females clone themselves.

Like most complex issues, animal homosexuality is challenging and poorly understood. Therefore, educators tend to shy away from covering it in their teaching. Many scientists don't even want to be associated with this type of research.

"I've had primatologists offer to give me their data on homosexual behavior because they didn't want to publish it," Wolfe said.

"Against Nature?" was set up partly to demystify the concept.

The argument that a homosexual way of living cannot be accepted because it is against the "laws of nature" can now be rejected scientifically, said Geir Soli, project leader for the exhibition. "A main target for this project was to get museums involved in current debate; to show that museums are more than just a gallery for the past."

"People are not born homosexual, they become homosexual, for different reasons: education issues or because they did not develop their own identity during adolescence. It may not be their fault, but acting against nature and the dignity of the human body is an insult to God," he said.

Unfortunately for the Cardinal, his viewpoints are outdated and hypocritical. He's the one that seems to be acting against nature and in the process insulting 'God'.

 

[Azur]

As a person who happens to be gay, I don't really care to share a heaven with the likes of Cardinal Javier Lozano Barragan - or anyone who would take his words as truth, but that's just me.

It's not just you. Not by a long shot.

I do admit it would be very nice if everyone on this planet - straights, gays, trannies, and everything in between, would just see each other as human beings who deeply need to be loved, and to love.

That would be a heaven I'd like to be a part of.

Me too, so much so, that it hurts to see what goes on today, the divide being so artificial and thin, but with real consequences.

What you envision above is the World that I would like to see, free of artificial (externally created) baggage, one where people are unfettered and free to create and BE.

As far as pedophiles - according to the data I'm aware of on that, the vast majority are straight males - though there's no question the priesthood breeds (or attracts) its own vile species of that pathology.

All in all, the phrase that the Earth benefits from a periodic cleansing keeps coming to mind...

If ferreting out the subtle ways and means of the inward focused, downward spiralling ones means anything, I think the cleansing is just beginning.

[post-edit: clarification]

 

[veronica33]

dont pay attention to the noncense of society
just take a look at the messegge of destiny for a moment
we'r in a chees game , make your movements while you keep on growing in sott.....


dont let the chees game mutate your perception of reality dont even have one and even less based on a society thinking