Gehenna- Slipknot

[Crystla24]

"Gehenna"- Slipknot

Do you Believe? Do you Fade like a Dream?
Let me hear you BREATHE
Let me watch as you sleep
The Sparrow's Eyes... Promises shift into judgments
I cannot deny that you were designed for my punishments

The Blood and The Body - Control the cut so it's seamless
Show me your Heart - Show me the way to complete this
TETHERED / to a scene I / TREASURE / can you help me?
I / SEVER/ god it's perfect, it's / NEVER / really perfect
Now... I can finally be myself
Cuz I don't want to be myself

FREE MY SEVERED HEART, GIVE ME YOU - I WANT IT
(I don't want to be myself)

I cannot maintain a semblance of Normal anymore
I'd rather feel pain than try to fit in with you anymore
I'll throw it all away, like everybody else
I can finally be myself
Cuz I don't want to be myself

FREE MY SEVERED HEART, GIVE ME YOU - I WANT IT
(I don't want to be myself)


I thought that this was a good song/poetry that many of us around here might relate to. Struggling with being in relationships where the other person might not exactly "get you", but pretending to be happy with what you have versus being alone and being yourself. I found it very thoughtful anyhow...

I just resently bought the new Slipknot album that I have sorely neglected to buy when it was released, but I always was a fan-and still am very much so. I might not be quite prepared to start a debate about this intellectually, but have been wondering some things. I have seen several times in this music topic, people pretty harshly putting down some of the metal genre that others have put forward as well as dark art styles and I just want to address this, or put it out there in the open...


"All Hope Is Gone"

The state of the nation - violation!
A broken promise is as good as a lie.
The hell is humongous, the devil's among us
and we will burn because we won't unite!

What are we conceding for our freedom?
Why does anybody think we need 'em
I would rather fight,
than let another die.
We're the problem,
but we're also the solution.
ALL HOPE IS GONE!!!

If you want it come and take it from me.
If you think you can, you still don't know me.
Let me tell you, man, when I said it, I meant it
and I will always have the right to defend it.

Fifty seconds, a hundred murders.
The bill of rights is a bill of sale.
What will you do when the war is over?
What will you do when your system fails!?

We have made the present obsolete.
What do you want?
What do you need?
We'll find a way,
When all hope is gone!

We've seen the fall of the elite,
Bury your life, take your disease
We'll end the world,
When all hope is gone!

The wretched are the wounded,
The hungry starve to death,
In a place where no one goes,
The air itself is a final breath,
So discontinue, the anti-septic, care charade,
As a cry of justice comes,
A malignant fire fades.

I am the reason your future suffers,
I am the hatred you won't embrace
I am the worm of a pure gestation,
I am the remedy, spit in my face.
All your laws and rules are outdated,
All your subjects are killing the kings,
I can rattle off a million other reasons why,
But does it matter when the only thing we love will die?

We have made the present obsolete.
What do you want?
What do you need?
We'll find a way,
When all hope is gone!

We've seen the fall of the elite,
Bury your life, take your disease
We'll end the world,
When all hope is gone!
WHEN ALL HOPE IS GONE!!!

WHEN ALL HOPE IS GONE!!!

WHEN ALL HOPE IS GONE!!!


I only bolded one sentence here, but I am getting a pretty strong signal from this group and the fans base which really loves and cares about each other which I am finding a hard time explaining. I think their art of rage and anger is absolutely beautiful and tasteful and promotes morals that I respect. This is just one example but, this band, seeming fairly conscious...Is it possible to choose an STO path and draw from the darker archetypes? The whole accepting ALL of 'God' . When choosing what we aspire to Be, there are some dark parts of me that I care about, even after alot of analyses and that does not mean that I Willingly want/or do act in a STS fashion. Some thoughts to throw out there for now, and I have seen small debate in this area, but not anything fully addressing it.

 

[TOTEM36]

I think their art of rage and anger is absolutely beautiful and tasteful and promotes morals that I respect. This is just one example but, this band, seeming fairly conscious...Is it possible to choose an STO path and draw from the darker archetypes? The whole accepting ALL of 'God' . When choosing what we aspire to Be, there are some dark parts of me that I care about, even after alot of analyses and that does not mean that I Willingly want/or do act in a STS fashion. Some thoughts to throw out there for now, and I have seen small debate in this area, but not anything fully addressing it.

Hi Crystla24

Im a big morbid angel/slayer fan.

I like that sentence in bold. Im glad you brought this subject up, as some people do associate dark themes/archetypes in music exclusively with STS intentions dont they?

 

[skycsil]

Hi hallowed! What do you think of Illud Divinum Insanus? I heard so many idiocy regarding that album that I would love to hear an opinion from someone with a mind ;D

Back to the subject, metal music has always been a scapegoat in our society. I've never been a Slipknot fan, but there are countless metal bands with amazing lyrics, a lot of metal musicians were trained in classical music and can create wonderful, elevating pieces.

I've been listening to extreme metal since I was 13, and often ask it to myself: "why do I love this music so much?" and I think I love most is the depth, the honesty, the meaning and the substance, both lyrically and musically speaking. Though, in recent years, kinda lost my taste for black metal bands, except the more folkish ones (Cruachan, Waylander, Primordial, Ulver, Borknagar, etc.)

 

[TOTEM36]

Hi hallowed! What do you think of Illud Divinum Insanus? I heard so many idiocy regarding that album that I would love to hear an opinion from someone with a mind ;D

Back to the subject, metal music has always been a scapegoat in our society. I've never been a Slipknot fan, but there are countless metal bands with amazing lyrics, a lot of metal musicians were trained in classical music and can create wonderful, elevating pieces.

I've been listening to extreme metal since I was 13, and often ask it to myself: "why do I love this music so much?" and I think I love most is the depth, the honesty, the meaning and the substance, both lyrically and musically speaking. Though, in recent years, kinda lost my taste for black metal bands, except the more folkish ones (Cruachan, Waylander, Primordial, Ulver, Borknagar, etc.)

hey skycsil, hee hee,

Thanks, yeah, i agree, its funny to observe how over the top the critics got huh? Track 2 "Existo Vulgoru" and Track 3 are great off that album, but it does not compare to their 1st three albums though. Solos are all great (Trey is a genius).

Thats really interesting skycsil, i checked out Primordial a while ago cos of the reviews saying something about them being similar to Iron Maiden, but, they were quite earthy and mellow, very interesting. Im going to check some others you mentioned. True Black metal makes me feel very uncomfortable though, a little too dark even for my shadow self. Although i like those 'bleeaaaaah' noises they make, if you know the one i mean? hee hee.

 

[Crystla24]

I think their art of rage and anger is absolutely beautiful and tasteful and promotes morals that I respect. This is just one example but, this band, seeming fairly conscious...Is it possible to choose an STO path and draw from the darker archetypes? The whole accepting ALL of 'God' . When choosing what we aspire to Be, there are some dark parts of me that I care about, even after alot of analyses and that does not mean that I Willingly want/or do act in a STS fashion. Some thoughts to throw out there for now, and I have seen small debate in this area, but not anything fully addressing it.

Hi Crystla24

Im a big morbid angel/slayer fan.

I like that sentence in bold. Im glad you brought this subject up, as some people do associate dark themes/archetypes in music exclusively with STS intentions dont they?

Hi hallowed! What do you think of Illud Divinum Insanus? I heard so many idiocy regarding that album that I would love to hear an opinion from someone with a mind ;D

Back to the subject, metal music has always been a scapegoat in our society. I've never been a Slipknot fan, but there are countless metal bands with amazing lyrics, a lot of metal musicians were trained in classical music and can create wonderful, elevating pieces.

I've been listening to extreme metal since I was 13, and often ask it to myself: "why do I love this music so much?" and I think I love most is the depth, the honesty, the meaning and the substance, both lyrically and musically speaking. Though, in recent years, kinda lost my taste for black metal bands, except the more folkish ones (Cruachan, Waylander, Primordial, Ulver, Borknagar, etc.)

Hehe, on the other hand some metal is hardcore Satan/Self worshiping. I too have grow away from alot of that type of metal. When bands start acting like they try too hard too be the darkest, evilest band, I feel that it is just as bad as pop culture and wanting to conform to something on another end of the spectrum... Honestly, I get alot of crap from some of my metal friends for loving Slipknot, 'cause it is not hard enough, dark enough. What I have always loved about them is that their music lets the fan base know that they are not alone, "We all got left behind". And it is about sticking up for what's right no matter what the consequences are. The beginning of the song "Pulse of the Maggots" is kind of condesending towards all the evil stuff being conveyed in metal-

This is the year where hope fails you
The test subjects runs the experiment
And the bastard you know, is the hero you hate
But cohesing is possible if we try
Theres no reason, theres no lesson
No time like the present, Tell me right now
What have you got to lose, what have you got to lose
Except your soul... who's with us?!

I fight for the unconventional
My right, and its unconditional
I can only, be as real as I can
The disadvantage is
I never knew the plan
This isn't just a way to be a martyr
I can't, walk alone any longer
I fight, for the ones who can't fight
And if I lose, at least I tried

We-we are the new diabolic
We-we are the bitter bucolic
If I have to give my life you can have it
We-we are the pulse of the maggots

I won't-be the inconsequential
I won't-be the wasted potential
I can make it-as severe as I can
Until you realize
You'll never take a stand
It isn't, just a one-sided version
We've dealt, with a manic subversion
I won't, let the truth be perverted
And I won't leave another victim deserted

We-we are the new diabolic
We-we are the bitter bucolic
If I have to give my life you can have it
We-we are the pulse of the maggots

Do you understand? (yes)(x4)

Say it again say it again (we won't die) (x8)

We fight until no one can fight us
We live, and no one can stop us
We pull when we're pushed too far
And the advantage is
The bottom line is
We never, had to fight in the first place
We only, had to spit back at their face
We won't, walk alone any longer
What doesn't kill us only makes us stronger

We-we are the new diabolic
We-we are the bitter bucolic
If I have to give my life you can have it
We-we are the pulse of the maggots

Do you understand (yes)(x4)

Say it again say it again (we won't die)(x4)



Anyway, I'll quit acting like a dorky fan ;D I will have to check out some of these bands you both suggested. Maybe we could start a thread on metal recommendations that are not of the pure STS faction. I'm sure enough people around here would appreciate such. And yes hallowed, the line you bolded is actually the entire point I was grasping for when I started this thread. Doesn't metal really pump you up (full of energy). Is the energy being drawn from that higher archetype when it is not being fed from another person? Also, reminiscing about metal, I got to thinking about mosh pits. With all participants willingly exchanging this energy into a super rush, could this be a positive share of energy? ;D Metal (and classic rock) concerts used to be my hobby, 'till I moved to BFE.

I don't know if it is appropriate to share any mailing info around here, but ummm, I won some Anthrax tickets on the radio yesterday and I live 5 hours from the venue. So if anyone here wants them I would be happy to give them away... its this concert http://www.songkick.com/concerts/10284653-anthrax-at-cotillion, It's for Oct. 18th.
Thanks for the positive feedback!

 

[truth seeker]

I only bolded one sentence here, but I am getting a pretty strong signal from this group and the fans base which really loves and cares about each other which I am finding a hard time explaining. I think their art of rage and anger is absolutely beautiful and tasteful and promotes morals that I respect. This is just one example but, this band, seeming fairly conscious...Is it possible to choose an STO path and draw from the darker archetypes? The whole accepting ALL of 'God' . When choosing what we aspire to Be, there are some dark parts of me that I care about, even after alot of analyses and that does not mean that I Willingly want/or do act in a STS fashion. Some thoughts to throw out there for now, and I have seen small debate in this area, but not anything fully addressing it.

I'm fairly ignorant of this type of music so for what it's worth...

My question would be what is being fed by this music and what are the people listening to it really getting from it?

While I understand (I think) the acknowledgment of all of the faces of 'god' as stated, how does it translate into one's life in an sto manner?

I realize that as with any type of music, the industry has been ponerized to such an extent that what is packaged is basically a characature but I guess I'm old school and don't really get a lot of it. It seems to me to be pretty much the opposite of the love and light idea except in this case, the message seems to be rooted in either hate or apathy.

 

[skycsil]

Actually metal is too wide to label it as "satanic" or "apathic" as a whole. There are bands who talk about satanism, others about christianism (some to praise it, many to criticize it), there are "pagan" bands, there are folk based bands, and there are many bands with amazing lyrics about esoterics, politic, social critique... you name it! There are even some amazing bands from India and Singapore that mix their native music and legends with metal.
About Slipknot, I know what you mean. I'm not a fan, but my husband is, and he often get that for friends.
I'm up for a separated thread, apologies to Crystla24 for hijacking his

 

[EGVG]

I only bolded one sentence here, but I am getting a pretty strong signal from this group and the fans base which really loves and cares about each other which I am finding a hard time explaining. I think their art of rage and anger is absolutely beautiful and tasteful and promotes morals that I respect. This is just one example but, this band, seeming fairly conscious...Is it possible to choose an STO path and draw from the darker archetypes? The whole accepting ALL of 'God' . When choosing what we aspire to Be, there are some dark parts of me that I care about, even after alot of analyses and that does not mean that I Willingly want/or do act in a STS fashion. Some thoughts to throw out there for now, and I have seen small debate in this area, but not anything fully addressing it.

I'm fairly ignorant of this type of music so for what it's worth...

My question would be what is being fed by this music and what are the people listening to it really getting from it?

While I understand (I think) the acknowledgment of all of the faces of 'god' as stated, how does it translate into one's life in an sto manner?

I realize that as with any type of music, the industry has been ponerized to such an extent that what is packaged is basically a characature but I guess I'm old school and don't really get a lot of it. It seems to me to be pretty much the opposite of the love and light idea except in this case, the message seems to be rooted in either hate or apathy.

I used to listen to Slipknot when I was in the closet... Now I literally can't listen to them. I think their lyrics are vulgar and nasty, not my style at all. But I guess people do tend to demonize this kind of bands, I think lately the trend is shifting a little bit to Pop music as well, especially after the birth of Lady Gaga's "Fame Monster"(2009)

 

[Tigersoap]

Anyway, I'll quit acting like a dorky fan ;D I will have to check out some of these bands you both suggested. Maybe we could start a thread on metal recommendations that are not of the pure STS faction. I'm sure enough people around here would appreciate such. And yes hallowed, the line you bolded is actually the entire point I was grasping for when I started this thread. Doesn't metal really pump you up (full of energy). Is the energy being drawn from that higher archetype when it is not being fed from another person? Also, reminiscing about metal, I got to thinking about mosh pits. With all participants willingly exchanging this energy into a super rush, could this be a positive share of energy? ;D Metal (and classic rock) concerts used to be my hobby, 'till I moved to BFE

Hi Crystla24,
I understand quite well what you're talking about but I think you are seeing too much into it imho.

Yeah from experience most metal band are full of primal energy, which can be felt like empowerment or as I'd put it, to take back your power, redirect your rage and frustation, accept your "shadow" part and show the world what you're made of.
I think it talks to people who have been at some point in their life outcasts or seemingly "wronged" by life (or those who just want to find an excuse to act like total brutes and morons in the mosh-pit but they're not really fan of the music ;) )
Maybe something like this goes in your head : you think I am ugly and worthless then I'll use this and turn it into a strength.
One of the problem is that you may end up being caught in this persona and only embrace this lower side of yourself osit.

Sadly all this energy is not really used in an esoteric sense but it can give a purpose to do something different than what mainstream society would want you to do or at least rethink your attitude about it.
Many bands are trying to do things with a DIY attitude, respect for the fans, not selling out and so on.
The only thing is that it's all part of the STS world we're in.

I do have a soft spot for all this kind of music (especially the super technical mathcore thing not so much the brutal in your face metal genre like slipknot) although with age I discovered that there were so many other emotions that could be explored with different styles of music.

My two cents.

 

[Crystla24]

I only bolded one sentence here, but I am getting a pretty strong signal from this group and the fans base which really loves and cares about each other which I am finding a hard time explaining. I think their art of rage and anger is absolutely beautiful and tasteful and promotes morals that I respect. This is just one example but, this band, seeming fairly conscious...Is it possible to choose an STO path and draw from the darker archetypes? The whole accepting ALL of 'God' . When choosing what we aspire to Be, there are some dark parts of me that I care about, even after alot of analyses and that does not mean that I Willingly want/or do act in a STS fashion. Some thoughts to throw out there for now, and I have seen small debate in this area, but not anything fully addressing it.

I'm fairly ignorant of this type of music so for what it's worth...

My question would be what is being fed by this music and what are the people listening to it really getting from it?

While I understand (I think) the acknowledgment of all of the faces of 'god' as stated, how does it translate into one's life in an sto manner?

I realize that as with any type of music, the industry has been ponerized to such an extent that what is packaged is basically a characature but I guess I'm old school and don't really get a lot of it. It seems to me to be pretty much the opposite of the love and light idea except in this case, the message seems to be rooted in either hate or apathy.

Yes, I was kinda thinking like the opposite of the love/light stuff. I think that there is alot of hate and apathy. This was just one example, but talking about the band I chose to bring this up with...the hate and apathy I think may be to come down to the level of the fans experiencing these emotions, relating, and then encouraging to turn this into a productive energy. Well I guess I am kind of exploring "the acknowledgement of all the faces of 'god'. Really, I'm not seeing a clear path to what I am thinking on this subject as of yet. At a deeper level, shown in my "Shaman Vision" thread, I feel I have recently encountered my shadow. Acting like it is all fine and dandy now doesn't seem to be the way to keep it at bay. Maybe I am just pondering ways of embracing my hard past instead of pretending it's all good now. If I seem kind of rambly or lost, I apoligize, I've just been thinking of ideas to explore and understand myself more.

Actually metal is too wide to label it as "satanic" or "apathic" as a whole. There are bands who talk about satanism, others about christianism (some to praise it, many to criticize it), there are "pagan" bands, there are folk based bands, and there are many bands with amazing lyrics about esoterics, politic, social critique... you name it! There are even some amazing bands from India and Singapore that mix their native music and legends with metal.
About Slipknot, I know what you mean. I'm not a fan, but my husband is, and he often get that for friends.
I'm up for a separated thread, apologies to Crystla24 for hijacking his

This is true with most every genre as well. There are types of other music that I don't preticularly prefer, but that doesn't mean that there aren't individuals with good intentions/heart/poetry in all of them some where. Also, I did not feel "hijacked" :) With this topic being kinda loosly thrown out there, I was kind of shooting for just a homey kind of conversation and pondering different tangents of the idea.

I only bolded one sentence here, but I am getting a pretty strong signal from this group and the fans base which really loves and cares about each other which I am finding a hard time explaining. I think their art of rage and anger is absolutely beautiful and tasteful and promotes morals that I respect. This is just one example but, this band, seeming fairly conscious...Is it possible to choose an STO path and draw from the darker archetypes? The whole accepting ALL of 'God' . When choosing what we aspire to Be, there are some dark parts of me that I care about, even after alot of analyses and that does not mean that I Willingly want/or do act in a STS fashion. Some thoughts to throw out there for now, and I have seen small debate in this area, but not anything fully addressing it.

I'm fairly ignorant of this type of music so for what it's worth...

My question would be what is being fed by this music and what are the people listening to it really getting from it?

While I understand (I think) the acknowledgment of all of the faces of 'god' as stated, how does it translate into one's life in an sto manner?

I realize that as with any type of music, the industry has been ponerized to such an extent that what is packaged is basically a characature but I guess I'm old school and don't really get a lot of it. It seems to me to be pretty much the opposite of the love and light idea except in this case, the message seems to be rooted in either hate or apathy.

I used to listen to Slipknot when I was in the closet... Now I literally can't listen to them. I think their lyrics are vulgar and nasty, not my style at all. But I guess people do tend to demonize this kind of bands, I think lately the trend is shifting a little bit to Pop music as well, especially after the birth of Lady Gaga's "Fame Monster"(2009)

It is kind of interesting (sorry if I am making noise here in my own thread), but there is a lot of music that I have seemed to have "out-grown". Another interesting thing I have been noticing (possibly subjective, but I don't think completely) and especially in metal where there may be a more exagerated comparison, is that some bands that really related to me growing up have also grown themselves and you can see the evolution in their newer albums. As we are growing, so are some of these artists. I really think it is a beautiful thing to see. For instance, the new Evanescence is coming out next week. I am pretty excited to hear it. Just from the one song "Do What You Want" that has been playing on the radio early, I am anticipating seeing a whole new more mature flavor to there new album. I imagine they will have (and other bands as well), songs reminiscent of their past style, just to keep fans happy they didn't "lose their sound".

Anyway, I'll quit acting like a dorky fan ;D I will have to check out some of these bands you both suggested. Maybe we could start a thread on metal recommendations that are not of the pure STS faction. I'm sure enough people around here would appreciate such. And yes hallowed, the line you bolded is actually the entire point I was grasping for when I started this thread. Doesn't metal really pump you up (full of energy). Is the energy being drawn from that higher archetype when it is not being fed from another person? Also, reminiscing about metal, I got to thinking about mosh pits. With all participants willingly exchanging this energy into a super rush, could this be a positive share of energy? ;D Metal (and classic rock) concerts used to be my hobby, 'till I moved to BFE

Hi Crystla24,
I understand quite well what you're talking about but I think you are seeing too much into it imho.

Yeah from experience most metal band are full of primal energy, which can be felt like empowerment or as I'd put it, to take back your power, redirect your rage and frustation, accept your "shadow" part and show the world what you're made of.
I think it talks to people who have been at some point in their life outcasts or seemingly "wronged" by life (or those who just want to find an excuse to act like total brutes and morons in the mosh-pit but they're not really fan of the music ;) )
Maybe something like this goes in your head : you think I am ugly and worthless then I'll use this and turn it into a strength.
One of the problem is that you may end up being caught in this persona and only embrace this lower side of yourself osit.

Sadly all this energy is not really used in an esoteric sense but it can give a purpose to do something different than what mainstream society would want you to do or at least rethink your attitude about it.
Many bands are trying to do things with a DIY attitude, respect for the fans, not selling out and so on.
The only thing is that it's all part of the STS world we're in.

I do have a soft spot for all this kind of music (especially the super technical mathcore thing not so much the brutal in your face metal genre like slipknot) although with age I discovered that there were so many other emotions that could be explored with different styles of music.

My two cents.

Thank you for your insight, I do see lots of these fans "being caught in this persona and only embrace this lower side of yourself" . And, this part of what you said does actually touch at some of the sentiment I am feeling as shown above in this post "
Yeah from experience most metal band are full of primal energy, which can be felt like empowerment or as I'd put it, to take back your power, redirect your rage and frustation, accept your "shadow" part and show the world what you're made of." I really like your statements here, because in objectivity, I've already contemplated just about every part of what you said. So, it seems you picked up alot of my various thoughts here ;)


Maybe if I take this even deeper into my own unconscious/subconscious...maybe letting go of my own shadow is giving me sentimental feeling about missing who I was and maybe I brought up this whole subject because of this very reason. Maybe I am sticking up for it (my music/my past/my ego) with complete sentiment of letting it all go. It is a good ridance, but I have really been through a lot with myself :D Wow, I really never intended to get all sappy. When I type on this forum, it really tends to pull out repressed emotions I think. I also am sorry for in all my posts refering things back to myself all the time. I am aware of this and will be keeping an eye out on doing it in other peoples' threads.

 

[EGVG]

Crystla24

It is kind of interesting (sorry if I am making noise here in my own thread), but there is a lot of music that I have seemed to have "out-grown". Another interesting thing I have been noticing (possibly subjective, but I don't think completely) and especially in metal where there may be a more exagerated comparison, is that some bands that really related to me growing up have also grown themselves and you can see the evolution in their newer albums. As we are growing, so are some of these artists. I really think it is a beautiful thing to see. For instance, the new Evanescence is coming out next week. I am pretty excited to hear it. Just from the one song "Do What You Want" that has been playing on the radio early, I am anticipating seeing a whole new more mature flavor to there new album. I imagine they will have (and other bands as well), songs reminiscent of their past style, just to keep fans happy they didn't "lose their sound".

Yes, I think their first single is reminiscent of their past work, I'm pretty sure the album will follow the same style.

 

[TOTEM36]

Hehe, on the other hand some metal is hardcore Satan/Self worshiping. I too have grow away from alot of that type of metal. When bands start acting like they try too hard too be the darkest, evilest band, I feel that it is just as bad as pop culture and wanting to conform to something on another end of the spectrum... Honestly, I get alot of crap from some of my metal friends for loving Slipknot, 'cause it is not hard enough, dark enough.

hi Crystla24,
agree with you about evil (intent) bands, a bit much hey?

I really used to like that Slipknot song called 'duality'.
and also that song where he sings the lyric: "as i close my eyes, i feel it all slipping away". Hope you are enjoying the new album anyway?
ps. That sucks when people are predjudiced against you, these people usually have a cognitive distortion anyway.

Doesn't metal really pump you up (full of energy). Is the energy being drawn from that higher archetype when it is not being fed from another person?

Agreed. Evocative word. Food for thought.

Also, reminiscing about metal, I got to thinking about mosh pits. With all participants willingly exchanging this energy into a super rush, could this be a positive share of energy? ;D Metal (and classic rock) concerts used to be my hobby, 'till I moved to BFE.

I actually believe it is a big collective positive energy rush and exchange of some sort?, but, dont know for sure?

Anyway, I saw the latest Maiden DVD and the positivity and love amongst the crowds in each country was overwhelming. The crowd for that particular band is definately recieving a STO outcome.

My question would be what is being fed by this music and what are the people listening to it really getting from it?

While I understand (I think) the acknowledgment of all of the faces of 'god' as stated, how does it translate into one's life in an sto manner?

I realize that as with any type of music, the industry has been ponerized to such an extent that what is packaged is basically a characature but I guess I'm old school and don't really get a lot of it. It seems to me to be pretty much the opposite of the love and light idea except in this case, the message seems to be rooted in either hate or apathy.

Hi there Truthseeker, no offence friend, but I think your comments about hate and apathy are basically just denouncing metal music in a blanket fashion, but also right in a very superficial/surface sense. Certain evil intent bands like those purist bands out of Norway are no doubt intending 100% hate as an outcome. (stay away)
But, moving back to the listener, dosent it all depend on the psychic maturity of the individual listener and the purpose behind thier listening?.
"the All blinks at neither the light or the dark" and all that good stuff!

I will think it over more Truthseeker, but i think the love/light vs hate/apathy comment is perhaps an over-simplification and probably just a manifestation of binary thinking really?

Truthseeker, if you read this, no offence, i might be not seeing something? and i know you are not familiar with this genre.

Actually metal is too wide to label it as "satanic" or "apathic" as a whole. There are bands who talk about satanism, others about christianism (some to praise it, many to criticize it), there are "pagan" bands, there are folk based bands, and there are many bands with amazing lyrics about esoterics, politic, social critique... you name it! There are even some amazing bands from India and Singapore that mix their native music and legends with metal.
About Slipknot, I know what you mean. I'm not a fan, but my husband is, and he often get that for friends.
I'm up for a separated thread, apologies to Crystla24 for hijacking his

Well said, it is an artistic medium.

But I guess people do tend to demonize this kind of bands,

Hi Crystla24,
I understand quite well what you're talking about but I think you are seeing too much into it imho.

Yeah from experience most metal band are full of primal energy, which can be felt like empowerment or as I'd put it, to take back your power, redirect your rage and frustation, accept your "shadow" part and show the world what you're made of.
I think it talks to people who have been at some point in their life outcasts or seemingly "wronged" by life (or those who just want to find an excuse to act like total brutes and morons in the mosh-pit but they're not really fan of the music ;) )
Maybe something like this goes in your head : you think I am ugly and worthless then I'll use this and turn it into a strength.
One of the problem is that you may end up being caught in this persona and only embrace this lower side of yourself osit.

Sadly all this energy is not really used in an esoteric sense but it can give a purpose to do something different than what mainstream society would want you to do or at least rethink your attitude about it.
Many bands are trying to do things with a DIY attitude, respect for the fans, not selling out and so on.
The only thing is that it's all part of the STS world we're in.

I do have a soft spot for all this kind of music (especially the super technical mathcore thing not so much the brutal in your face metal genre like slipknot) although with age I discovered that there were so many other emotions that could be explored with different styles of music.

My two cents.

Hi Tigersoap, I read your post very closely, and Im not that old yet, but, like you mentioned, as we get older, our motivations mature, and i believe metal music can be used as a form of positive dissassociation, and a great tool for accessing the psyche etc. perhaps it is very individualised too??

 

[truth seeker]

Yes, I was kinda thinking like the opposite of the love/light stuff. I think that there is alot of hate and apathy. This was just one example, but talking about the band I chose to bring this up with...the hate and apathy I think may be to come down to the level of the fans experiencing these emotions, relating, and then encouraging to turn this into a productive energy. Well I guess I am kind of exploring "the acknowledgement of all the faces of 'god'. Really, I'm not seeing a clear path to what I am thinking on this subject as of yet. At a deeper level, shown in my "Shaman Vision" thread, I feel I have recently encountered my shadow. Acting like it is all fine and dandy now doesn't seem to be the way to keep it at bay. Maybe I am just pondering ways of embracing my hard past instead of pretending it's all good now. If I seem kind of rambly or lost, I apoligize, I've just been thinking of ideas to explore and understand myself more.

First, no need to be so apologetic! I find it an interesting conversation hearing people's various thoughts on music and their reasons why they are drawn to one thing over another.

In giving this more thought, I think that perhaps love and hate as we experience it as 3d sts are probably more similar to each other - two sides of the same coin so to speak as they are both intense emotions. I suppose apathy would then be the opposite as it is the lack of feeling.

I don't know if the answer is to either fully ignore or embrace (become identified) with one's past. Perhaps the answer lies somewhere in between? We acknowledge the past - see it for what it is - and then try to grow from it?

My question would be what is being fed by this music and what are the people listening to it really getting from it?

While I understand (I think) the acknowledgment of all of the faces of 'god' as stated, how does it translate into one's life in an sto manner?

I realize that as with any type of music, the industry has been ponerized to such an extent that what is packaged is basically a characature but I guess I'm old school and don't really get a lot of it. It seems to me to be pretty much the opposite of the love and light idea except in this case, the message seems to be rooted in either hate or apathy.

Hi there Truthseeker, no offence friend, but I think your comments about hate and apathy are basically just denouncing metal music in a blanket fashion, but also right in a very superficial/surface sense. Certain evil intent bands like those purist bands out of Norway are no doubt intending 100% hate as an outcome. (stay away)

Just to clarify, the operative word in that sentence was 'seems'. Meaning that it may or may not be as I said. Note also that what I said was a commentary about the industry itself and the message that is marketed. It was not a commentary about you in particular. There is a difference between the two, no? Perhaps you may feel a bit identified with this genre and so your post read as if you took offense?

Unfortunately the more out there bands ruin it for all and give the impression that all such work is rooted in 'evil'. I suppose that's done on purpose in order to attract. This is no different from any other genre of music. To me, it's really all programming made to feed into the idea that we are separate from one another. Basically a distraction. You can also see this in the world around us in general.

But, moving back to the listener, dosent it all depend on the psychic maturity of the individual listener and the purpose behind thier listening?.
"the All blinks at neither the light or the dark" and all that good stuff!

I will think it over more Truthseeker, but i think the love/light vs hate/apathy comment is perhaps an over-simplification and probably just a manifestation of binary thinking really?

Truthseeker, if you read this, no offence, i might be not seeing something? and i know you are not familiar with this genre.

I think you're using C's transcripts to bolster your argument. Acknowledging that something exists is not the same as becoming identified with it. I'm genuinely curious however, what does this music make you feel? How has it affected your life? What about it draws you to it?

 

[Tigersoap]

Hi Tigersoap, I read your post very closely, and Im not that old yet, but, like you mentioned, as we get older, our motivations mature, and i believe metal music can be used as a form of positive dissassociation, and a great tool for accessing the psyche etc. perhaps it is very individualised too??

Hi Hallowed,
I think you modified your post from when I read it the first time.
My post was just based on my experience, not as if I absolutely knew about every possible combination of life experiences.

In my case, bands or music I was listening years ago haven't got the same appeal they had before, I guess that working on myself helped me to be more attuned with different emotions that I was denying myself to feel before, hence I listen more often to music according to my mood, noticing when some music have a negative or positive impact on me and sometimes no music at all can also be very relaxing and help me to be more introspective :)
fwiw.

 

[ana]

Anyway, I saw the latest Maiden DVD and the positivity and love amongst the crowds in each country was overwhelming. The crowd for that particular band is definately recieving a STO outcome.

Can you comment on What do you understand for STO? And how it applies to your statement above?