Giving when you are feeling very tired

[cassandra]

Here's an example: In the summer we booked a club holiday to Egypt in order to recharge our batteries. We had just moved, our kids needed to be looked after during the holidays and we had to work all at the same time. (Yes, I know it happens, but we did need a holiday)
The first few days were fab. Apart from a photographer who kept taking our photos (I have a stupid problem here in that I hate having my photo taken).
He was nice enough, but he kept on turning up and ruining the peace with his damn photos and stupid talk.
Then one evening a much older guy (he was okay, old-fashioned, not really our cup of tea, but the kids quite liked him) took a fancy to us and asked us
every evening after that if he could join us for dinner. Somehow we couldn't turn him down; he was lonely and it seemed unfriendly to turn him away with an excuse. Plus the tables didn't exactly belong to us exclusively. But of course we had to mind out P's and Q's, make intelligent conversation, which when I am really tired, I find very hard to do.
He would then spend the entire night with us, joined by a really nice couple, thank god!
I was okay with this for a few evenings actually until the photographer came along and this older guy was very rude to him, and made a racist comment.
After that, I found it hard to cope spending several more evening in his company and became resentful and even more drained. And bored. We couldn't focus on each other as a family at all, which was the whole point of the holiday.
My husband found him a little tiresome, but wasn't so drained. The guy was lonely and had recently suffered the loss of his brother, father and a recent divorce.
He wasn't looking for sympathy just companionship. I mean I would never presume on other people like that, especially much younger ones, but was I draining myself with feeling resentful and ? My husband and kids weren't as bothered as me.
The days were great, scuba diving, swimming, napping by the pool, etc, except my eldest daughter was having enormous psychological problems at the time.
The last day there, we had to vacate our room, and I hid in the lobby (childishly?) to escape the photographer and the elderly gentleman.
Anyway, I left feeling more tired than ever, and had a stomping cold. Due to a bad attitude?
Should we ideally always be in a position to help others? I am very confused on this issue!
I welcome any comments, insights, your own experiences, as this situation seems to crop up now and again. I also read Scarlet's thread, where she mentioned a teacher talking her to death...

 

[Gertrudes]

Hi Cassandra,

Should we ideally always be in a position to help others? I am very confused on this issue!

Not if that is invading your space, that wouldn't be helping. I don't think helping is helping when it is draining you. There is a fine line between helping another or being pulled into a situation that is uncomfortable for you. I think that the latter might have been what happened. Think of it this way, while you were "helping" this man, were you helping yourself? Did you indeed enjoy the restful holidays you had planed?

It sounds to me that both the older man and the photographer were invasive, but also because on a certain level you allowed for them to be. It is very easy to agree to someone's forced presence, I know this very, very well as I've done it many times, most of us don't want any trouble and simply wish to be polite. It seems that the older man was also looking for company due to his recent losses. That's ok, as long as it doesn't interfere with your own need to have family time, just for yourselves. His wish is as valid as yours, why consider that because he seemed to need company you should put down your own needs?
Perhaps you could have said something like "thank you for your company, we have been appreciating it, but today we would like to spend some family time just by ourselves"


These are just a few thoughts, others might think differently though.

 

[Alada]

Should we ideally always be in a position to help others? I am very confused on this issue!

Not when one is being manipulated into 'giving', emotionally or otherwise. The crux of your post seems to be that you felt unable to say no, to do what you wanted, and were instead drawn into 'giving' to the point of feeling drained by it.

Its the 'be nice', or being seen to be 'nice' program running. Sometimes we have to work against it in order to preserve free will and energy. It will make you feel like the 'bad guy' in the moment, can save you time and trouble in the long run.

Doesn't mean you have to be overtly nasty to others, a simple 'not tonight, we'd like some family time together' would have worked. Likewise telling the photographer 'please don't take any more photos, I think we have enough now' would be enough.

Yet it is difficult sometimes to say such simple things, to ask for what we want and not be manipulated by others. It might not be conscious manipulation on the other persons part, but unconsciously other peoples machines 'know the social rules' and will play them to their advantage.

One has to discern when one is truly giving or helping as a free will choice, and when one is actually being manipulated. The Service to Others is to refuse the manipulation.

 

[cassandra]

Thanks Gertrudes and Alada,

Yes, what you say makes sense. It's funny, but same answers came to me just after I had posted. Looks like the very act of writing out feelings helps
clarify matters.
I made it perfectly clear I have photophobia, but he carried on anyhow. He was someone you had to be really direct to.
In a similar situation I was direct with a "friend" who is impossibly thick-skinned. You have to tell him straight or he won't get it. Unluckily, he knows a lot of people I do and as a result of being direct, he has told other people I'm difficult. He is a good friend of my husbands and I loathe him after 20 years of tolerating him. So now I stay away from him even though sometimes it splits the family up.
Example of his behaviour, sexually harassing on more than one occasion me when drunk, foul language, always asking favours, being utterly useless, crude and embarrassing, inviting himself on holiday with us, reading and laughing all of my posts I wrote on a website.
He can be very funny and is super friendly, and it took a while for all these things to bother me because he had more people to hang around,but now I just can't bear him around. Oh well, just have to live with it. Wish my husband would see him for the creep he is!

 

[Mrs. Peel]

Thanks Gertrudes and Alada,

Yes, what you say makes sense. It's funny, but same answers came to me just after I had posted. Looks like the very act of writing out feelings helps
clarify matters.
I made it perfectly clear I have photophobia, but he carried on anyhow. He was someone you had to be really direct to.
In a similar situation I was direct with a "friend" who is impossibly thick-skinned. You have to tell him straight or he won't get it. Unluckily, he knows a lot of people I do and as a result of being direct, he has told other people I'm difficult. He is a good friend of my husbands and I loathe him after 20 years of tolerating him. So now I stay away from him even though sometimes it splits the family up.
Example of his behaviour, sexually harassing on more than one occasion me when drunk, foul language, always asking favours, being utterly useless, crude and embarrassing, inviting himself on holiday with us, reading and laughing all of my posts I wrote on a website.
He can be very funny and is super friendly, and it took a while for all these things to bother me because he had more people to hang around,but now I just can't bear him around. Oh well, just have to live with it. Wish my husband would see him for the creep he is!

Geeze, does your husband know he did this? Sound like your husband needs to pay a little more attention to what is and is not appropriate behavior for a "friend." It never ceases to amaze me how people "put up" with friends like that, just seem to look the other way at their bad behavior. I think it says something about the person themselves if they tolerate stuff like that.

As to your post, I agree that initially you were trying to help a lonley person have some companionship, but this person took advantage of it and you guys just ran with the "be nice" program. Same with the photographer. The fact that it didn't bother your husband much and he doesn't see the friend for the "creep' he is seems much more of a problem to me...

 

[cassandra]

Yes, it is a problem which problem people sense, since my husband is too easygoing (not with me though) and take advantage of me, then when I protest, I get called difficult.
He does know about this guy. Sexually harassing is maybe too strong, ( let's call him A) but he propositioned me a few times, and put his hands all over me, and felt me up all over, making me feel like a piece of meat. I froze up, and did not really say anything. I think he even thought I would go along with it and like it.
My husband does not understand, he says "he was drunk at the time(s)." Another male friend of mine also knows, but said lightly A was suitably ashamed-
which is not true, he was very angry at me for rejecting him. This man has a huge ego. His brother is very similar, tried it once as well. They are Irish.
I've been told "Oh the Irish.." it does seem true with some of the men in Ireland - the ones I've met, as he's not the only Irishman I've experienced this with.
Hey, I know there are good ones out there too, but this is not normal!!
Now I'm getting older, probably it won't be a problem, and next time I will slap them. They can explain the red marks to their wives.
But yes, my husband is rather too tolerant of his "friends" at the cost of his family and himself.
By the way, I know I have to select my wording more carefully, because sexual harassment suggests I struggled and protested loudly, or does it. I think his big ego thought he was irresistible, which he is soo not!

 

[Keit]

Sexually harassing is maybe too strong, ( let's call him A) but he propositioned me a few times, and put his hands all over me, and felt me up all over, making me feel like a piece of meat. I froze up, and did not really say anything. I think he even thought I would go along with it and like it.

Hmm...actually, it is sexual harassment.

My husband does not understand, he says "he was drunk at the time(s)."

It is pretty disrespectful, osit. Also, how can you feel respected, protected and supported by your husband when he is finding excuses for the obnoxious behavior of his "friends"?

 

[Al Today]

But yes, my husband is rather too tolerant of his "friends" at the cost of his family and himself.

Forgive my jumping in and emotional bluntness. I am a husband and absolutely would Do something to get "him"/"them" to just leave you alone. That whole thing pisses me off for you. This makes me wonder if he values a buddies friendship more than the marriage. Some guys just gotta be part of the dog pack. The word "love" has been twisted so much. Too, too many guys I know think women are possessions. Trophy wives for example. Or the woman is necessary for her part of keeping the house, laundry, cooking, cleaning, baby sitting, raising the children, sex on demand, on, and on, and on... Just Twisted and extremely Selfish.

With me being a guy, I cannot truly understand your side of the fence. I am sorry for what you must be going through. I have seen this many times and usually distance my self from the situation. I have never allowed some guy who acts like that to be a "friend" of mine. Even if my wife had a friend in a abusive situation, I could not socialize with "him". I have no suggestions I can offer as I cannot know your full situation. What I want to convey is that all men are not like that. Nor do I enjoy "seeing" a woman living like that. I am sorry...



edit: I knew guys like that. Old friends from my youth that never matured. We did not socialize with them.

 

[agni]

That's not cool Cassandra ! It is plain sexual harassment !

You call your husband easy going ? I call it being a coward-cunning-fox face ! Your man does not seem to have any respect for self, since advance on his partner from friends is disrespect of him as well, but more importantly, his silent consent of advances on you from his friends is total disrespect of you. And all for the sake of what ? Holy image of easy-going guy ?

 

[Joe]

On the first guy gloming on to you and your family; was he actually asking for something that you were willing to give? If he doesn't make it clear somehow what precisely he wants then how can you know whether or not it is right to give to him?

On the second scenario, yeah, I think you should feel rather pissed off at your husband for his cowardly stance on his friends sexually harassing you.

 

[Gonzo]

By the way, I know I have to select my wording more carefully, because sexual harassment suggests I struggled and protested loudly, or does it. I think his big ego thought he was irresistible, which he is soo not!

I'm a little surprised you think sexual harassment requires something of the victim. What about someone in a coma? Uninvited sexual contact, even language, is sexual harassment. In fact, if contact is made, I'd say it's sexual assault.

Sorry to jump in on your post but I wanted to add to the male perspective. This both angers and sickens me.

Do you notice how you too play things down, minimizing them as if they aren't a big deal?

It's a big deal when someone touches you inappropriately, regardless of their state of mind or intent. The best state of mind and intent can do is help provide context, but it doesn't change what you went through.

It's a big deal when the person who is supposed to love you and protect you brushes off such behaviour. I don't know a decent guy that would condone such behaviour.

As a man, I would never let something like that happen around me - I'd intervene. As a husband, I'd be supporting my wife, even if it meant losing what I might have previously thought was a friend. No friend of mine mocks my wife, gets in her space or touches her beyond what she would consider appropriate.

You deserve as much.
Alcohol and "boys will be boys" has been used to excuse all sorts of nastiness. Drunk people are as responsible for their actions behind the wheel of a car as they are around other people.

I'm of Irish decent, by the way.

Heh, to think you started your post about dealing with the vampires on your vacation. It's always interesting to see what comes out in a post and where it goes compared to where it began.

Gonzo

 

[Gimpy]

Hi cassandra.

Should we ideally always be in a position to help others? I am very confused on this issue!

I'm currently working on fatigue issues. (Adrenal fatigue)

What I've found in living with it is, when I'm very tired, the little programmed gatekeeper in my head that insists that I be Mrs. Nice quits working.

This means that if I find someone rude, nasty, or harassing, they are told in plain language that they are rude, nasty, or harassing...in addition to the consequences of behaving that way. That includes saying:

"If you try to touch my butt, I'll scream and make sure everyone knows what an azzhat you are." Then if said idiot tries it again, I scream "Let go of my butt you pervert!"

No, I don't care if everyone stares, is uncomfortable, or embarrassed. The only person who can touch my butt is my husband, and when I'm tired he knows better.

When its a person who's trying to attach to me, especially a stranger, I'm equally blunt and firm: "I don't know you, I'm here with my family for family time. Please leave us alone or I will notify security." If they keep it up, I get security.

All it took for me to be able to stand up for myself was a debilitating chronic illness and being too tired to put up with other peoples crap. Its worked wonders for me, and its my hope that other people can learn to do this without the chronic illness, fatigue part.

When its someone who is genuinely asking me for help? I'll find someone who isn't as tired as I am at that moment, and ask them if they can help the person asking, and if I really just can't do anything, I'll say so.

That's the really hard part....because I tend to go till I do a face plant, and that really upsets Hubby.


Edit: sentence structure.

 

[ana]

Now I'm getting older, probably it won't be a problem, and next time I will slap them.

You will see if there is a necessity for slapping them or not :D but I think the important thing here is that you assert yourself clearly when you feel the limits of your privacy and intimacy are exceeded by others.
In any case it is better that others believe you are "difficult", than allowing them overstep the limits so they can feel confortable being idiots with the empathic capacity of a fly.

But yes, my husband is rather too tolerant of his "friends" at the cost of his family and himself.

Then don't wait for him to speak up for you, assert yourself when necessary and then see how things develop...

 

[Gawan]

Hi Cassandra,

Should we ideally always be in a position to help others? I am very confused on this issue!

Not if that is invading your space, that wouldn't be helping. I don't think helping is helping when it is draining you. There is a fine line between helping another or being pulled into a situation that is uncomfortable for you. I think that the latter might have been what happened. Think of it this way, while you were "helping" this man, were you helping yourself? Did you indeed enjoy the restful holidays you had planed?

I concur. You have also a right to say -no- if something is bothering you. So there are always two sides and a fine line between as Gertrudes wrote. A "no" should be accepted from another person, if this person has a conscience and this is your free will and choice doing so. Otherwise there is a possibility, also when it may be far stretched, to get overworked with the result of burnout.

Yes, what you say makes sense. It's funny, but same answers came to me just after I had posted. Looks like the very act of writing out feelings helps
clarify matters.

It many times does. For example writing on a scientific paper for several months one gets blind for mistakes, but as soon as the work is given out of hand, for corrections or peer-reviewing one is able to see more clearly again. :)

 

[cassandra]

Thank you so much for your kind and supportive replies.
I will read through everything carefully tomorrow and reply.
Oh, and I noticed a few typos in my posts, so will watch out in the future.
It's not all harshness here and the occasional "scoldings" I have received have also been invaluable in helping me/us become stronger.