Gog Magog


Dagobah Resident
honeystlandscapestevealex can be found here:


beckhamptonohstevealex can be found here:


Or at least I think so based on the god of google. ;D


FOTCM Member
Thanks rs. :) I used the archived site and loaded the images from 2008 and then looked in "File Source" and then the file name. I wasn't very sure about the 27th July image. The top image in your post doesn't show up in the archives for 2008, hence my uncertainty.


The Living Force
Help. I am so sorry to ask, but I was moving along quite nicely with the gog magog understanding, until just now when I found this:


In a nutshell , I feel this must be disinfo, but my historical understanding has holes a plenty. Gog Magog cannot possibly be connected to the Ashkenazim, right? I cannot reach a synthesis here. As always, a nudge in the right direction will do - I will read what I need to. That link is older than this one, so may be it does not " fit"?


FOTCM Member
Daenerys said:
Help. I am so sorry to ask, but I was moving along quite nicely with the gog magog understanding, until just now when I found this:


In a nutshell , I feel this must be disinfo, but my historical understanding has holes a plenty. Gog Magog cannot possibly be connected to the Ashkenazim, right? I cannot reach a synthesis here. As always, a nudge in the right direction will do - I will read what I need to. That link is older than this one, so may be it does not " fit"?

I don't think so either, I was just posting something that I thought was interesting and might have clues in another direction.


The Living Force
I have a hypothesis to put forward. I may be very far off in left field, but here it goes. Is it possible that Gog and Magog is not the Lord and Lady of light, the sun and the moon, but the two faces and the two names of the mother goddess?

I will reference a post a made recently here: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,2890.msg358449.html#msg358449

Laura said:
Back when Secret History was going through its first edits, Frank J (QFG
researcher) was quite fascinated by the discussion of the 19 year cycle.
He decided to do some research.

The graphs and things he included in his paper aren't included in the following, but they aren't necessary. What is important are his remarks as well as the upcoming event.

Those who have read "The Secret History of the World" are aware of the possible significance of this event.

19-year Lunar Cycles
By Frank J

I was inspired to put together this little paper by the discussion in
'Secret History' concerning the importance of the 19-year lunar cycle in the
cultures of some ancient civilizations, in particular the culture that
flourished around Stonehenge. The C's suggests that the 19-year cycle is a
window, gravitationally induced, for direct access by humans ("right
people, right place, right activity, right time") can directly access
higher dimensions without any help from other entities. by engaging in

group activities,
carried out in a geometric pattern, and
with certain amplification materials in particular geographic locations,
the participants having fused their magnetic centers,

And, of course, I am also interested in where we are now in that cycle.
The following explanations are cobbled together
from several scientific and archaeological sites on the Internet, and their
web addresses are provided at the end of this article.

Predictable motions of the earth's rotation axis on time scales less than
300 years are all referred to as nutation, a correction to the precession
cycle (26,000 years). The currently standard nutation theory is composed of
106 non-harmonically-related sine and cosine components, mainly due to
second-order torque effects from the sun and moon, plus 85 planetary
correction terms. The four dominant periods of nutation are 18.6 years
(precession period of the lunar orbit), 182.6 days (half a year), 13.7 days
(half a month), and 9.3 years (rotation period of the moon's perigee).

The primary nutation of 18.6 years drives two other observational cycles:
the Saros cycle (18 years and 11 days) and the Metonic Cycle (19 years)

Primary Nutation Cycle

The cause of this cycle is the precession of the lunar orbit about he Earth.
In addition, the Sun's gravitational pull leads to a precession of the
Moon's orbital axis, with a period of 18.6 years. This precession advances
the locations where the moon's orbit crosses the ecliptic (the nodes).
Eclipses will occur on the new or full moon nearest the time that the sun
passes one of the nodes

There are several observational consequences of this cycle, none of which
require a technical knowledge of the lunar precession.

Solar Eclipse Prediction

This cycle causes every eclipse of the sun to repeat itself at a different
place on the earth every 18.6 years. The effect of this "wobble" is that
eclipses seasons occur 365.24/18.6= 19.6 day earlier every year. Thus in
1997, the eclipse season of the fall will be centered about the node 19.6
days earlier than that of the previous year.

Lunar Standstills: Because of the 5.1 degree tilt of the moon's orbit with
respect to the ecliptic, the moon may be anywhere within 5.1 degrees above
or below the ecliptic. During major standstills the moon reaches a
declination of 23.5 plus 5.1 degrees or 28.6 degrees; major standstills
occur every 18.6 years. At minor standstill the greatest declination that
the moon reaches is 23.5 minus 5.1 degrees or 18.4 degrees.

This means that every 18.6 years, the rising or setting Moon reaches a
northern extreme in rising and setting azimuth at summer solstice, and a
southern extreme at winter solstice. These are called major standstills.
While such standstills can in principle be determined using horizon
observations, as with the summer solstice Sun the Moon's year-to-year
angular displacement along the horizon at summer solstice is very small near
standstill. It should be noted that 18.6 years is measured from the point of
view of the lunar orbit. Observationally, from the Earth's surface, the
length of time between two major standstills is not 18.6 years: it switches
back and forth between 18.5 years and 19 years, and 18.6 years is an
observational average. This may become clearer by looking closely at the
behavior of the moon at the time of her extreme positions. This chart shows,
for the current and three most recent nodal cycles, the maximum southern
azimuth position of the rising moon reached during each month for
approximately three years. The data shown are the maximum rising moons for
the periods Mar 1, 1949 - Mar 31, 1952; Sep 1, 1967 - Sep 30, 1970; Mar 1,
1986 - Mar 31, 1989; Sep 1, 2004 - Sep 30, 2007.

To understand what 'standstill" means observationally, it will be easier to
use the Sun as an example. The sun rises furthest to the north at the summer
solistice, around June 21 each year. Following the summer solistice it will
begin to rise a little further south each day, rising due east at the fall
equinox around September 21, and reaching its southernmost rising point at
the winter solistice around December 21. After the winter solstice the sun
will begin rising further north each day, rising due east at the spring
equinox around March 21, and finally reaching its northernmost rising point
again around June 21. The slow sweep of the sun's rising azimuth across the
eastern horizon takes a full year, and practically repeats itself exactly
from year to year. The rising point changes very little from day to day when
it's rising near either the northern or southern extremes of its motion.

This phenomenon is known as the "standstill." For several days around either
solstice the sun's rising azimuth will hardly change at all. In contrast,
when the rising point is between the extremes, say around the equinoxes, the
rising azimuth changes quite a bit from day to day. This phenomenon of
"standstills" near the extremes applies to periodic motion of many kinds,
including the motions of the moon.

The rising point of the moon changes from day to day in a very analogous
way, marking out a sweep from north to south and back again, except that it
takes only one month to accomplish one complete cycle. The actual period of
this cycle is the "draconitic month" of 27.21222 days, on the average.

Unlike the sun, however, the extremes of the northernmost and southernmost
rising azimuths will not remain the same for each cycle. After noting the
northernmost rising point for the moon during one month, one may very well
find it rises at a point even further north the next month. In fact, there
is an 18.61-year variation in the extremes of the moon's rising point.

A major standstill limit will happen at the moment the moon is near a
quarter moon and the lunar node is near the vernal (or autumnal) point. The
moon is at his highest point in its orbit and combining this with lunar
phase, the sun is near equinox.

Saros Cycle

The periodicity of solar eclipses depends upon two lunar orbital cycles
coinciding with the moon passing through a node. First, a new moon occurs on
average every 29.530588 days. The moon's average orbital period, perigee to
perigee, is 27.554548 days. These cycles repeat every 18 years, 11 1/3 days;
or 6585.3211 days; or 233 new moons, approximately 239 perigees and 242
nodes. Every eclipse in a Saros family shares the same 18 year, 11.33 day


223 lunar synodic months = 29.053059*223 = 6585.3216

242 lunar draconitic months = 27.21222*242 = 6585.3572

The Metonic Cycle

Another pattern evident in the table is that the solar calendar dates of
maximum moonrises often repeat, 19 years apart:
1 solar year = 365.2425 days

1 lunar synodic month (full moon to full moon) = 29.53059 days
19 years = 365.2425*19 = 6939.6075 days

235 lunar synodic months = 29.53059*235 = 6939.6887 days
This is a difference of only 0.0812 days, or about two hours. So, after
exactly nineteen solar years the sun will return to the same position
relative to the stars (by definition), and the moon will have very nearly
the same phase (just two hours difference). This fact was much appreciated
by the Greeks, as the dates of the new moon, full moon, etc., would repeat
every nineteen years.

For the purposes of maximum moonrises, the above coincidence alone would not
be enough to ensure that maximum moonrises will occur on the same date 19
years apart, it only guarantees the phase will be the same on the same

Another well-known aspect of the Metonic cycle is that since the sun, moon
and earth return to the same relative positions, the pattern of eclipses of
the moon and sun may repeat somewhat after 19 years elapses. The half-day
difference of the lunar draconitic cycle however is enough to throw the
eclipse repeatability out of kilter fairly rapidly, but three or four
eclipses may repeat, on the same dates 19 years apart, before this happens.

In any given year the solar calendar dates of Full Moon events will be
duplicated every 19 years. This creates a clear cycle connection that was
delineated by the mythic 19 Priestesses of Bridget. Each of these individual
"Priestesses" represented the "character" and experience of each of the 19
components of the Great Lunar Year. This relationship creates an excellent
basis for cyclic pattern divinations. A 19 year cycle upon which one can
hang other, shorter cycling patterns for delineation and understanding


So, I conjecture that the gravitational "window" in TIME that allows "the
right person, in the right group, at the right time and at the right place"
to access hyperdimensions is the standstill point, also called lunarstice.

When is the next one?

September 2, 2006

Ya'll bear with me here, as I do not know if what I am about to say has any meaning at all. I have been spending a lot of time on the Gog Magog thread, the Maze of Malta thread, and Apollo etc as related to the bear goddess.

Here we have a reference to Apollo dancing, and a reference to solar eclipse. As I mentioned in the Sol Niger - Black Sun thread, a solar eclipse is also an esoteric symbol for the black sun. But what just struck me, in relation to the goddess and perhaps which face one sees. is that the symbol for the Vesica Pisces could be either the beginning or ending of a solar eclipse, when the two or starting or ending overlap.

Also, that symbology could also represent the hynopompic or hypnogogic state ( There is Gog again, lol) One happens while going further to sleep, the other as one is closer to being awake. So here we have a "window". I do hope this does not come across as noise, as I do not mean for it to,. I always struggle whether to post obeservations like this or not, as they may not mean a thing.

I also am looking at the etymology aspect as well, and there seems to be a divide into two aspects that are opposites:

On the one had you have words revolving around leadership of the people, gathering together, teaching and on the other hand you have words revolving around sleep and imagination.

It would also explain to me in a way how eclipses would have been used in the opposite way as say the Maruts do.For example, the Mayan blood sacrifices in the south is opposite.

Then, there is a reference in a session I just found that ties in to my window idea that I made in the 19 year lunar standstill thread in regards to windows : https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,26589.0.html

Q: It seems to me that if what he was saying was true, that he certainly would not be allowed to say it. It's based on and converges with all the stories they are telling about Rennes-le-Chateau and seems to be more smokescreen. Anyway, Mike has questions. (M) You said that this place over Rennes-le-Chateau was a window. What is a window? (L) Now, I realize that we have all assumed that we know what a window is, but we have never really asked for a definition. Could you define for us a 'window?

A: Convergence; opening to alternative states via energy grid points.

Q: Are windows where you can pass back and forth? Moving between realms?
A: It is possible.
Q: How does a window differ from a 'portal?
A: Window is open, portal is crafted.
Q: A window is naturally occurring portal?
A: Close.
Q: Does a window remain open all the time, or does it open and close for various reasons.
A: Closer to latter.
Q: What determines its opening and closing?
A: Frequency.
Q: Frequency of what?
A: Energy patterns.
Q: Frequency patterns of the area itself, or of people, or of people in interaction with the area?
A: Former.
Q: What could occur to change the frequency of the area?
A: EM pulse.

Another useful thread that ties in to all of this is The Black Madonna thread:


Of course there is the possibility I am dead wrong.
Now, my brain is also thinking that if fractals hold as a true thing, then perhaps the interaction between the sun and it's companion creates a window in the same way- a realm border crossing just the same?


The Living Force
Laura said:
and this one:


I made a post in that thread which I think deserves a thread of it's own, and so I am reposting it here.

In an odd sort of way, this recent figure 8 crop circle reminds me of the Chilbolton glyph that appeared on August 19 back in 2001, just a short time before the events of September 11.

As I recorded in an article here: http://www.cassiopaea.org/cass/cropcircle.htm , on the night that the Face of the Goddess appeared (for that is what I think it was), I had a dream - a very clear and powerful one wherein the "voice" spoke to me. I have mentioned this voice in a few places; it is a somewhat rare event, generally happens as I dream in a very special state, and I just call it "the voice of seeing." (I think I picked that up from Castaneda.)

Anyway, here is the description of the dream as I recorded it in the above linked article:

As I write this report, I am listening to Richard Hoagland on the Art Bell Show pronouncing sagely upon this wonder. He reiterates over and over how much the face looks like the face on Mars, or a primitive hominid type face, and I'm sorry that I don't see that in it at all. To make my point, here is the Glyph as it appears in the field:

And here is the face after I have used standard, automatic enhancements from my Photo Edit program:

I'm sorry, but the cupid's bow mouth and the deepset eyes suggest a woman's face to me, not a Neanderthal nor the face on Mars. And, in point of fact, on the very night this crop circle appeared, I had a dream.

In this dream was a set of images. The first set was a pair of wavy lines like the symbol of Aquarius. This used to be the symbol of the Great Mother Goddess and it represented water, consciousness, creativity, infinite energy and potential. The second set of images was the same wavy lines that had become serpents. I was puzzled by this transformation, but a voice explained it to me. You see, after the conquest of our reality by the Dominator Male Gods, the Compassionate Mother Goddess was "transmogrified" into a Serpent, or accused of consorting with a serpent. (This is standard Machiavelli: accuse your enemy of what you, yourself, are.) At this point, the worship of the Father and Son took over, paving the way for Male dominated Monotheism and all concepts of cyclic time and rebirth were overlaid with that of linear time and hell-fire and damnation.

This is what the voice told me as I was shown the images of the wavy lines and the serpents:

"The Mother Matrix is the Primal Source of all that exists in your realm. She has two faces - life giving and death dealing - and it is up to you which face you see. Those who gaze upon the Mother Matrix seeking to control her with rituals or domination or restriction in their hearts, will see only serpents - and will experience only destruction. For the Mother is a Mirror. Those who gaze upon her with non-anticipatory love in their hearts, will receive all the bounty of infinite potential."

I would say that this face is telling us that the mother will soon be showing herself to us, and it is up to us which face ultimately manifests in our realm.

I guess those were semi-prophetic words. From the 19th of August until the end of August is 11 days... and from the end of August until the attack on the WTC was another 11 days - we were 22 days away from disaster and the evidence of which way humanity was to turn.

If you look at the images above, do notice that the face seems to be divided into two aspects right down the middle. I hadn't really notice that so clearly until today.

Look at the infinity crop circle. See my posts above. That also looks like the exact point of overlap also I mentioned with eclipses- the window.

Also, there is an octagon in the middle, which is related to magnetite


Chemical Formula: Fe3O4, Iron Oxide
Class: Oxides and Hydroxides
Group: Spinel
Uses: Major ore of iron and as mineral specimens

Magnetite is a natural magnet, hence the name, giving it a very nice distinguishing characteristic. Explaining the magnetism is not easy, but here is a go at it. Remember, ELECTRICITY PRODUCES MAGNETIC FIELDS just as MAGNETISM PRODUCES ELECTRIC FIELDS. Magnetite is a member of the spinel group which has the standard formula A(B)2O4. The A and B represent usually different metal ions that occupy specific sites in the crystal structure. In the case of magnetite, Fe3O4, the A metal is Fe +2 and the B metal is Fe +3; two different metal ions in two specific sites. This arrangement causes a transfer of electrons between the different irons in a structured path or vector. This electric vector generates the magnetic field.
Physical Characteristics:
Color: black.
Luster: metallic to dull
Transparency: Crystals are opaque.
Crystal System: isometric; 4/m bar 3 2/m
one site called the crystal system "isometric hexoctahedral and showed an image of this crystal. It looked like two PYRAMIDS attached together at their foundations. Mirror images of each other. KAH
Crystal Habits: typically octahedrons, but rarely rhombododecahedron and other isometric forms, most commonly found massive or granular. TWINNING of octahedrons into spinel law twins is seen occasionally.
Cleavage: absent although octahedral parting can be seen on some specimens.

Fracture: conchoidal.
Hardness: 5.5 - 6.5
Specific Gravity: 5.1+ (average for metallic minerals)
Streak: Black
Best Field Indicators: magnetism, crystal habit and streak.
Associated Minerals: talk and chlorite (schists), pyrite and hematite.
Other Characteristics: MAGNETISM STRONGER IN MASSIVE EXAMPLES THAN IN CRYSTALS, striations on crystal faces (not always seen).

[SIZE=-1]Notable Occurrences: South Africa, Germany, Russia, USA (Michigan, Utah), France, Germany, Norway, Finland, Brazil, Isle of Ischia, near Naples, Compania, Italy.[/SIZE]
Misc.: The name comes from the ancient nameMagnesia, in Asia, an ancient region bordering on Macedonia. It is now in Turkey. [Editor's note: Magnesia is a subject of much discussion by the alchemist, Fulcanelli.]

I feel a bit woozy, as this now relates back to my post here : https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,27406.msg337673.html#msg337673 which has to do with albedo and windows, and magnesia is related to albedo. I guess I really ought to break down and go read some alchemy stuff. Is this all just subjective madness? I feel like I may need a reality check.Now that twinning thing, which is all over the place here, reminded me of a quote Laura wrote in SHOTW that I went to read over after I connected the dots on the albedo post above:

There are, then, two stars which, improbable as it may seem, are really only one star. The star shining on the mystic Virgin - who is at one and the same time ourmother (mère) and the hermetic sea (mer) - announces the conception and is but the reflection of that other, which precedes the miraculous advent of the Son. Forthough the celestial Virgin is also called stella matutina, the morning star; it ispossible to see on her the splendour of a divine mark; though the recognition of this source of blessings brings joy to the heart of the artist; it is no more than a simple image, reflected by the mirror of Wisdom.

Well, that made me think of this which related to all of this: https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,27027.0.html

(A) What causes pulsars? A good question... (L) Do you know? (A) Some nuclear reactions...A: Neutron "stars."

(L) Then, interestingly, {the Cs} brought up the key premise of my “Noah Syndrome”, and I said, "Transformation." And they asked, "By what means, what causative factor?" And I said that the causative factor was bodies of the solar system interacting and exchanging energies. And of course I meant electrical energies. I was talking about the sun, the 11-year cycle, the 22-year cycle, the whole bunch of different cycles in the sun. It all charges the bodies in the solar system so that they all go haywire, and that's the basic premise of The Noah Syndrome. And then – immediately after this - {the Cs} said, "A pulsar pulses at an extremely rapid rate." They didn't say it spins, they said it pulses. Then they asked us, "What is the nature of neutron stars, supernovas, 'black holes,' et cetera?" They then said that, "All are the junction of matter/antimatter... the borderline between realities as you know them... material realms/etheric realms, density level junctures, realities. One can pass through these windows with ease; remember, the stars and planets are windows too."
What if neutron "stars", ( note stars in parenthesis) is a reference to this other "star" above? If I am not crazy, and someone can see where I need to be nudged to get back on track, please help. I do not want to be wallowing in subjectivity here, seeing things where there is nothing to be seen. I do not have the science or math background to even have a clue how far off the deep end I may be here.


Laura quote:

"I don't know why it doesn't occur to biblical scholars such as Mack, to consider the hyperdimensional hypothesis and compare Jesus to the Siberian Shaman who has access to the "kingdom."'

Shamanism has always interested me, so I have also been reading various posts on shamanism here on the Forum and in Laura’s book The History of the World, Chapter 7: "Ancient Enigmas", subtitle 'The Role of the Shaman'.

Prof Pieter Craffert in his 2008 book The Life of a Galilean Shaman: Jesus of Nazareth in Anthropological-Historical Perspective deeply studied Jesus as a specific social type, as a Galilean shaman, in the context of the historical Jesus research that has been going on for 150 years. So Craffert looks in depth at shamans as a social type, at their functions in their societies, and tests the application to Jesus as a shaman in his own culture in the Mediterranean world of his time.

I could not find reference to this book on the Forum, and so I give some quotes from it here, and have bolded some information that I found interesting and relevant. The book has a scholarly approach to studying and understanding shamanism and testing the application to Jesus.

Craffert writes: “Some years ago I came across a book on shamanism and was struck by the similarities between the events and phenomena ascribed to the lives of shamanic figures and what is encountered in the canonical Gospels about Jesus of Nazareth. My first attempt at exploring the shamanic complex for understanding Jesus as historical figure was done within the framework of traditional historical Jesus research (see Craffert 1999a). The dominant theories about the sources as well as the distinction between the Jesus of history (the historical figure) and the Christ presentations of the Gospels were maintained, as it were. The shamanic model merely offered a different label (next to magician, Cynic healer, prophet, and the like) for describing Jesus’s social type with the suggestion that it could account for more of the elements and features ascribed to Jesus than the other models. Over time, that has changed.”

According to Craffert the aim of his study “is to offer an alternative to both the existing historical pictures of Jesus and the historiographical paradigm by means of which such constructions are made. The aim is to offer a picture of the historical Jesus that from the start takes seriously that he was a social personage fully embedded in the cultural system and worldview of his time. What he said and did were said and done by a social personage embedded in the cultural processes and dynamics of the kind of figure that he was. Within the framework of what is called an anthropological-historical perspective, I will present a social-scientific picture of the historical Jesus as a Galilean shamanic figure. …” (page xiii)

“One of the implications of this redescription of historical Jesus research is that the traditional views on the Gospels as being constituted in a linear and layered way are abandoned in favor of viewing the documents as residues of both his life as a social personage and the cultural processes and dynamics associated with such a life. If Jesus of Nazareth was a shamanic figure, the stories, reports, and accounts about his life from the very beginning probably included the features and characteristics of such a figure. Therefore, they are to be treated as the residue, as cultural artifacts, about the life of a historical and social personage as well as the cultural processes accompanied by such a public life.

What makes a study such as this particularly difficult is that it is simultaneously an explanation of “how to” and a “do-it-yourself” manual. It is necessary to explain the how, why, and what of the paradigm while at the same time offering an exercise in doing it. It is like mapping and describing a road while still constructing it – the method has to be explained along the way while trying to cover the terrain. Therefore, as opposed to the well-known metaphors of the Schweitzerstrasse and the Wredebahn used to depict current historical Jesus research, the metaphor of cultural bundubashing will be used. This metaphor, taken from off-road driving, describes the adventure of going places where no roads have been built. Through an exploration of the cultural landscape of the first-century Mediterranean world in general and the reality system of shamanic figures in particular, cultural bundubashing will work toward the hypothesis that Jesus of Nazareth could plausibly be seen as a Galilean shamanic figure.” (page xvi-xvii)

Craffert summarises his chapter on The Shamanic Complex: A Social-Type Model, as follows:

Page 139 and further: “Being able to identify a historical figure with a specific social type in such an analysis is highly significant. It can help to distinguish that figure from other social types in that setting; it can provide insight into the underlying cultural dynamics of the figure’s life and of the origin of the stories about the figure; and it an provide a handle to understand the features ascribed to the figure.

In this type of analysis, Jesus’s social type not only needs cross-cultural verification and credibility in the first-century setting, but it should also be able to account both for all the strands of gospel evidence (e.g., prophecy, healings, and teachings) and the overall pictures of the Gospels (at least the majority of canonical Gospels). A social type is not simply added as a label, and neither does it come up after being immersed in the sources for some time. It has to be demonstrated that such a social type fits the first-century Galilean world of Jesus and makes sense as a background to the various strands of gospel traditions. A decision about Jesus’s social type should therefore be the result of an analytical interpretive process in which various fibers interconnect: a picture of the first-century world and worldview, together with an interpretation of the gospel evidence within that context, play an integrated role.

The hypothesis of this study is that the model of the shamanic figure can indeed account for the variety of features and functions ascribed to Jesus and can even offer explanatory power to understand the cultural dynamics of such a figure behind the gospel reports. In fact, while all studies contain some picture of Jesus’s social type, the critical issues are not only to include the totality of Jesus’s activities in such a description but also to ground a description of Jesus’s social type in a proper analysis of that social type, of the historical setting, and of the historical personage. In other words, the social type should not only label the features and functions but also give explanatory power to understand the dynamic processes associated with such a social type within the particular historical and cultural setting. It will be argued that as a cross-cultural social type, the shaman has a universal distribution in human cultures and consists of a family of traditions about religious specialists who, in a natural and regular way, combine the features and functions often attributed to Jesus and can account for the whole spectrum of cultural processes constituting Jesus as historical figure.

Making Sense of Shamanic Studies

The study of shamanism has proved “remarkably resilient” in a number of academic disciplines (including among scholars of religion, anthropology, archaeology, and psychology) and remains a favorite topic of many scholars (see, e.g. Atkinsons 1992). Defining a shaman and describing shamanism, however, remain challenging tasks if only for the reason that these terms belong to an “analyst’s category” (Riches 1994, 382) that does not always easily fit onto the real world.

A very basic feature of shamanism to be taken into account is that it is not a religion but a complex of notions and practices within religions; it is the complex of beliefs, rites, and traditions clustered around the shaman and his or her activities (see Hultkrantz 1972, 35; Siikala 1987, 208). Therefore, one cannot belong to shamanism, but one can participate in or benefit from this pattern of religious beliefs and activities, and in special circumstances one can become a shaman. This feature constitutes the very basic challenge in shamanic studies: how to identify and describe this complex, which exists only within a specific religious system or within various specific religious systems. What constitutes this identifiable complex?

Within scholarly circles, there is no agreement on how the terms shaman and shamanism should be used: whether they should be restricted to the culture-specific and geographically limited area of Siberia where the study of shamanism originated, or whether they should be applied to various ecstatic types of religious practitioners all over the world.

Therefore, both the complex cultural phenomenon itself and the history of scholarly interpretation contribute to the difficulty of finding a proper definition. Three specific challenges have to be overcome when trying to make sense of the vast literature on the shaman and shamanism. First, shaman is a term with a history. Second, shamanism is studied by different academic disciplines and each offers its own set of concepts. Third, most studies of shamanism address “local shamanism rather than shamanism writ large” (Atkinson 1992, 321). …

In the Introduction of Chapter 9, “Healing, Exorcism, and the Control of Spirits”, Craffert writes:

The central functions of shamanic figures are, on the one hand, healings, exorcisms, and control of spirits; and, on the other hand, the mediation of divine knowledge – that is, teaching, prophesy, and all sorts of divination. If Jesus was a shamanic figure, it would not be surprising that together with the accounts about his teachings and prophecy, the reports about healings, exorcisms, and control of spirits constitute the bulk of the material ascribed to Jesus’s activities as a historical figure. In this chapter, the focus will be on an understanding of the healings, exorcisms, and control of spirits as potential shamanic activities.

Since the control of spirits will be considered in the second part of this chapter, attention will first be paid to the healing and exorcism accounts. If Jesus was a shamanic figure, as proposed by the hypothesis of this study, then healing, exorcism, and the control of spirits must have been part of his life story in a normal and natural way. But these reports constitute one of the most difficult challenges in historical Jesus research. In fact, there is a double challenge here. On the one hand, understanding the Gospel accounts as shamanic healings and, on the other hand, allowing for the dominance of the modern biomedical paradigm in all matters of illness and healing, it is no simple task to get a grip on what is implicated in such shamanic healings.

Thus, testing the hypotheses that Jesus was a Galilean shamanic figure depends on an understanding of the healing and exorcism stories as typical shamanic activities. It depends on a confirmation that the available reports are typical of shamanic figures. But that implies a clear notion of what shamanic healings and exorcisms are like. Put the other way round, knowing whether Jesus’s healings and exorcisms can be taken as evidence for the shamanic hypothesis implies that they were shamanic healings and exorcisms. But knowing whether they indeed were shamanic healings and exorcisms implies more than simply applying the shamanic model to the available data. In a cable-like interpretive process, this contains a dual task, or as explained earlier, it brings to the surface the dilemma of abduction as an interpretive strategy: it is necessary to understand the healings and exorcisms as shamanic activities in order to work toward the hypothesis, but it should be known what shamanic healings and exorcisms are like in order to do that.

This is where the other challenge starts, because the reigning model for dealing with matters of health care – the biomedical paradigm – assumes that illness and healing are homoversals, that is, universal and similar for all human beings. It does not have a category for shamanic healings as distinct from biomedical healings, and, therefore, in one way or another, the reports are read by means of biomedical assumptions. As has been argued earlier, the aim of cultural bundubashing is not merely to establish whether there are multiple, independent attestations of a particular account and whether Jesus performed the healings and exorcisms as, when and where the documents state. Nor does cultural bundubashing imply that the shamanic model can simply be applied in order to grasp the nature of these activities. The historicity of this part of the data (as of other parts) is of something in itself, but can only be determined in terms of a specific context or hypothesis. To claim historicity includes that plausible cultural events and phenomena also fit a particular social personage; in this case, that they in a natural way belonged to the life of a Galilean shamanic figure. The challenge is to grasp the nature and reality of shamanic healings and exorcisms in a way that is not dominated by the biomedical paradigm.

The first step, however, will be to give an overview of the data, and that implies an engagement with existing research.

Healings and Exorcisms Attributed to Jesus of Nazareth

Despite the scarcity of evidence, there is little dispute about the kind of illnesses connected to Jesus’s healing activities. First are the so-called leprosy stories. For the other two, it is not necessary to go beyond the categories employed by Davies: “healings of somatic disorders” and “exorcisms of supposedly possessing demons” (1995, 69). In addition to the summary remarks about Jesus’s activities that state that he went about all the cities and villages healing every disease and infirmity, or that all the sick and possessed came to Jesus, this constitutes the bulk of the evidence. …” (Page 245-247)

Prof Craffert's book was published in 2008 by Wipf & Stock, and is available at Amazon.


The Force is Strong With This One
Thought I would include in this thread a bit of info from another thread:
In Aboth de Rabbi Nathan, it is said that ZEBUL is the name of one of the SEVEN HEAVENS.

According to Hagigah 12b, ZEBUL is the fifth heaven ...

These reading apparently derive from the saying in 1 Kings 8:13, where BETH ZEBUL represents a parallel expression for Yahweh's eternal dwelling, and from Isaiah 63:15, where ZEBUL designates the heavenly throne of Yahweh. Habakkuk 3:11 uses ZEBUL as the "dwelling place of the Sun and Moon." Aitken draws the conclusion:

This makes it clear that ZEBUL was understood specifically of the dwelling of God, whether that was though of as the temple on earth or the heavens; in later ages when the temple has disappeared it was still used of heaven.
Additional evidence was provided by another scholar, Gaston, who pointed out that the Septuagint texts of 1 Kings 8:13 and Isaiah 63:15 translate ZEBUL with the Greek OIKOS, meaning "temple."

So, it seems pretty certain that Beelzebul means Lord of Heaven or the one that dwells in the dwelling place of God.
Why do the Cs say Beelzebub is lizard and not Lord of heaven? Could it be that Beelzebub/Baalzebul originates from lizards like Yahweh? 5th heaven could be 5th density which is death.

Nov 7 1994
Q: (L) Who was or is Baal?

A: Lizard.

Q: (L) Beelzebub?

A: Same.

Q: (L) Were these actual names of individual Lizards?

A: No. Personifications.


Jedi Master
FOTCM Member
From my understanding, and I could be wrong, for example, from Gurdjieff, and the title of his last book in his series. Life is only real when I am. Beelzebub tales to his grandson. It's an allegory. A compilation of stories and recollections, to convey a learning, psycho spiritual experience to his Grandson. The world that was, the world that is and the world to become

As for the meaning of Beelzebub, I think the C;s have said, that 6D negativity, is a negative thought form, flowing around in consciousness, not really a reality. There for balance. Similar to the Yin and Yang symbol, it depends on ones persuasion and being how this will affect those in the lower densities.

As below, so above.

Apologies if this is the wrong interpretation. Just my basic understanding.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Why do the Cs say Beelzebub is lizard and not Lord of heaven? Could it be that Beelzebub/Baalzebul originates from lizards like Yahweh? 5th heaven could be 5th density which is death.
Bear in mind that session was from 1994, and Laura's expectations from her time as a fundamentalist Christian may have played a part in skewing the information received. It took approximately a year for Laura to properly "groove" the channel.


FOTCM Member
Bear in mind that session was from 1994, and Laura's expectations from her time as a fundamentalist Christian may have played a part in skewing the information received. It took approximately a year for Laura to properly "groove" the channel.

Not necessarily. Who says that Beelzebub is not a lizard. Translation of a term does not mean that those who originally gave the name were right.


The Living Force
FOTCM Member
Not necessarily. Who says that Beelzebub is not a lizard. Translation of a term does not mean that those who originally gave the name were right.
True. Biblical research is definitely not my forté. I'll keep reading on this.
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