Growing organic tobacco in Croatia

Eärwen said:
Thank you Mr. Premise.
I'm living in a southern Dalmatia (south end of Croatia's coast) and last five summers temperatures oscillated between 34-39,5 degrees Celsius. Last summer we had rain for seven times, but that is anomaly, most of the time Lovište, little village I'm living in don't have rain during the summer or it is just a few drops in five to six months. And there is problem with red karst soil, it is very light soil that evaporate moisture pretty fast. We decided to follow the traditional way of growing because it is only option in this climate condition. According to what I learned form farmers it is needed to water tobacco plants with 1/2 litre every day in the evening (two hours after the sun set) or two hours before sun rise because water must be cold and soil can't be hot from the sun because tobacco got sensitive roots. At first seven days tobacco needs to be watered every day in small quantities twice a day, and after that once a day with 1/2 litre of water.

Yeah that is a reason we'll like to start with relatively small amount, for the time being we do not know how the plants will react on our soil, manure and tap water, and of course we never did it by ourself. I'm a bit afraid of pruning, topping and curing but I am willing to learn.

I would gladly exchange seeds with you. I have Burley from Herzegovina (smaller leaves and darker colour, stronger taste) and Burley from central Croatia (nice meaty leaves and mild taste), central European variety of Golden Virginia (extra mild taste), and Virginia from Moslavina it has specific delicious mild taste and when cured strong 'golden' colour, and I'm pretty happy to gain seeds form old variety of Cuban mountain tobacco, excellent for cigars and cigarillos (strong big leaves and rich sweet taste), I have only 500 seeds of Cuban but I don't need more than couple seeds for this year.

Could you please tell me what kind of curring is your favourite and how you do it?Is there any difference in growing and watering of your respective tobacco (Virginia and Turkish) how do you prevent disease or treat them?
Thank you in advance. :D

Those varieties sound interesting, we can definitely trade seeds this winter.

As for curing, I usually do basic air curing. I have experimented with flue curing virginia tobacco, the results are great, but it can be a difficult process that needs monitoring, and I haven't had the time or the skills to build a decent sized flue curing chamber. The one time I did it I used a simple small-scale method using an insulated metal garbage can. The problem with flue curing is that you need to monitor the conditions and I travel for my job so that makes it hard. Flue curing results in a brighter, sweeter virginia leaf. The way it works is you put the green leaves in the chamber and raise the heat to 100 F (37C) at about 90-95% humidity for a few days or until the leaves yellow. Next is the wilting stage where you gradually raise the temperature to 118 F (48C) and vent the chamber so the moisture in the leaves can slowly escape until the humidity lowers to 51% (about 24 hours). Next comes the leaf drying stage where you raise the temps gradually to 135F (57C) and the humidity drops to 35%. The last stage is stem drying where you raise the temps gradually to up to 167F or 75C and the humidity drops to 17%. The whole purpose is to lock in the color and sweetness by drying it as fast as you can without scorching it or rotting it. But as you can see it can be tricky. The temps can't rise too fast, so you have to set the thermostat to raise it 1F per hour over a 24 hour period! People who have done it at home usually use an Anduino controller which can be programmed to do this. Anyway, I did do this one year with some success, but I had to throw away a fair amount of leaves that either dried green or got scorched. A better insulated chamber with good venting and a fan might help. But for now this is too big a project for me.

As I mentioned before, sun curing is better than air curing for Virginias but not as good as flue curing. Sun curing has the advantage of being quicker, too. Not as quick as flue curing which can be done in 8-10 days but much quicker than air curing which can take a month or more for the stems to dry. For Burley and Turkish, air curing is fine, although Turkish benefits from sun curing. This year I experimented with sun curing for some of the earlier pickings, but in my climate the nights get too cool in September and October and the leaves can get pretty wet at night which can be a problem when they are dry (except for the stem). But we had a dry and fairly warm fall here, so I was able to sun cure or partially sun cure a good portion of my crop before rains and frosts hit. We'll see how it turns out. But mostly I air cure then kiln ferment. I pick the leaves when they are ripe and string them on 17 gauge fence wire in my basement. There I can control the humidity. This is important because for curing there are two things to avoid. Drying green and mold. If the humidity is too low during the yellowing phase, the leaves can dry green making them useless. But if the humidity is too high once the leaves have dried, mold can set in. The way to avoid mold is to keep the air moving with fans. But if you run fans on leaves that haven't color cured, they can dry green. So this can be a problem when some leaves are almost cured while others have just been picked. What I did this year was put my partially dry sun cured leaf in one room in my basement where I could run a fan, and I put the fresh picked rest of the crop, picked all at once, in another room, where I could let them yellow without a fan which can cause green drying. In about a week they have yellowed and today I turned the fan on. But since it is getting cooler outside, I have been running a humidifier in that room to keep the humidity at around 60% until the leaves are completely yellowed. Then I can let the humidity get low, which it does in my basement when the temps outside get cold and the furnace runs.

Of course the traditional method is in barns or sheds. In the tobacco growing areas, which are warmer then where I live, you get high temps in barns in the day and at night high humidity. These barns will have lots of windows and vents so the growers can regulate the temperatures and humidity and get a good air flow.

Then one the leaves are completely dry you can either pack it up and store it for a year or two to age, but if you want to smoke it right away, you can speed up the process by fermenting it in a kiln. I use an old refrigerator with the compressor taken out, which makes it an insulated box, but you can build one from wood and insulation. The process is to keep the leaves at 70% humidity and 120-125 F (49-51C) for four weeks. What I found works best is to fill a plastic semi-sealed storage container with leaves, mist the leaves with some water, and put it in the kiln. to maintain the proper temperature, I use a crockpot connected to a thermostat. The leaves in the containers will dry out so you can spray some more water on it when that happens, you want them to be nice and pliable but not wet. That's basically what 70% humidity is. Then you can smoke it right away, usually about December. There are a few varieties that taste good with no aging or fermenting, but Burley will be too harsh and Virginia will have a grassy taste before it's aged properly.
 
I merged the posts here about the benefits of smoking tobacco in general to the main thread for that, "Smoking is... good?" https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,84.0.html
 
Mr. Premise said:
Eärwen said:
Martina said:
I know it sounds stupid but I can send you rain water or water from my forrest well when needed. I just need to buy a water barrel. :) I saw a movie recently where people were taking care of wild horses and they were driving around with cistern to give them a water. Anyway, good luck with project. It sounds like a good idea.

Thank you Martina, but I believe that would be a pretty costly solution. We'll collect around 250-350 litres of rain to water tobacco plants during most venerable times like: preparation of the soil with semi liquid manure, germination and seedling transplant, for the rest we'll use tap water. It is filled with chemicals but that will have to do for the beginning.
Just make sure the tap water does not have chlorine in it. That causes poor burning among other things. To eliminate the chlorine, just let the water sit uncovered for a day.

Thank you for this info, I'll do it. :)
 
Mr. Premise said:
I merged the posts here about the benefits of smoking tobacco in general to the main thread for that, "Smoking is... good?" https://cassiopaea.org/forum/index.php/topic,84.0.html

Once more thank you Mr. Premise for sharing your experience about tobacco curing and the rest of the info, your knowledge is most helpful. Perhaps it would be the best if I start with simple sun curing of Virginia and air curing of the rest of tobacco, I think other ways of tobacco curing are way out of my league for the time being.

Looking forward to exchange tobacco seeds with you.
 
I used to hang it in barns for flue curing. I'm thinking a hot attic in late summer, fitting with support racks would do an ok job. Around here, attics are hot and humid. One can still find the hanging sticks as they are no longer used with the automated harvest/process systems.
I love the smell of it. The old warehouses are still standing around here, just used for other things now. They still smell like toasted tobacco. :)

Video on barn hanging (please turn off sound as language is a little peppery):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GWyXPbUtcVk

Slightly off topic:
It saddens me to see these jobs gone, replaced mostly by machines. It was very hard work, but we were glad to do it.
 
Summer is gone, and I would like to share with you couple of things related to the topic of growing tobacco, hopefully my own mistakes and experience could help forum members if you decide to commence the same endeavour.

I was following Croatian tobacco calendar, that is probably good for continental part of the country but it's late for coastal region. Instead of commencing seedlings production in March it will be better to do it in January, actually it's better to follow local vegetation and variations in seasonal temperatures than popular herbal calendar on Internet.

-http://www.hrvatskiduhani.hr/duhani/duhanski-kalendar.php?mjeseci=kolovoz.php

Planting tobacco in May is allready to late for Mediterranean part of Croatia, it will be much better to do it in March or April, due to the temperatures and plenty of rain.

We decided to use only natural soils and manure for our plants. The soil for the seedlings production was black soil from local woods with lot of humus mixed with a bit of compost and manure. We used one flower pot for four varieties of tobacco, but it would be much more practical and easier to use small flower pots for couple of seeds per pot (as less you can pick up with fingertips, tobacco seeds are extremely small). Tobacco seeds need light for germination, windows sill is the perfect spot for germination and small sprouts. Germination on our sunny balcony produced smaller plants, differences between temperatures during day and night were to big for young tobacco plants, the seedlings produced in our house were the best and biggest, and most healthiest seedlings were from the windows sill pots.

Starter plants could grow in a plastic cups, yogurt cups, anything like that and it isn't necessary to use good potting soil, small tobacco sprouts were happy in regular wood humus. Don't forget to make couple holes on the bottom of plastic cups for good water drainage, we didn't followed that rule so some of our plants drowned in too much water. It is the best way to water small plants with simple spray bottle, if you use pump spray bottles it can damage tiny seedlings. Virginia and Burley like to be watered twice a day, Cuban Havana grow faster with one watering per day.

Its pretty hard to decide what plant to leave to grow and what needs to die in order to make space for others in a pot. As the seedlings grow in small flower pot and plastic cups we need to get rid of unwanted plants, some people do it with scissors rather than pulling them out and disturbing the roots of their neighbors, we tried both of options but we noticed that tweezers are doing better job, for some reason plants left in the pot with "tweezers selection" were bigger and healtier. Perhaps decapitated sprouts made distress call via root microbiome to their untouched neighbours.

https://www.sott.net/article/304711-An-internet-of-fungi-help-plants-communicate
-http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11103-015-0417-8
-https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Root_microbiome

Plant transplant to the bigger pot could be a bit tricky, although Internet experts say transplanting tobacco plants bare-root is better idea, we found it difficult to follow so we decided to cut the plastic cups in order to transplant young tobacco plants together with the soil. We noticed that bare-root transplants got shocked and were in general smaller than the rest. The most shocked plants got largest of their leaves turned yellow and wilt, so transplanting with whole soil seems most appropriate way.

-http://www.just4growers.com/stream/propagation/understanding-and-avoiding-transplant-shock.aspx

Once tobacco is transplanted, it grows really, really fast. If you feed it with mixture of compost & manure it can double it's height in a week.

Week after the plant transplant we commenced to put our tobacco on a balcony, for just a couple of hours, every day a bit longer. During May all of our plants were planted in the garden, for couple of days we made shelter around each plants made of bush branches.

In 40 days tobacco plants were around 100 centimeters high, but than we have two hailstorms with strong wind, 75% of our tobacco was destroyed. :cry:
The rest somehow managed to grow again, although was flattened to the ground. We also planted anther bunch of tobacco plants and they are still growing in our garden.

We noticed that tobacco plants grow fastest if watered in the evening, plants watered in the early morning were a bit smaller and got stronger taste.

-http://www.instructables.com/id/Growing-Tobacco/step5/Watering-and-topping/

We decided to do simple air curing in our "wind tunnel". We experimented a bit, but sun curing or combination of sun and air curing didn't get us wanted results. :lol:

We are still picking up a leaves and curing them, and after that we are mixing Virginia with Burley to get the preferred taste. Personally I like mixture; 75% of Virginia with rest of Burley and just a bit of Havana, Dakota likes strong mixture with Virginia and the rest of strong tobacco.

This is the first time I tried organic tobacco without additives, and for one thing I'm certain, it will be hard to smoke again Sauvage or Pueblo when we finish with our tobacco. Right now I'm mixing Pueblo with my tobacco in order to stretch home grown "stash", but it's not the same. :cool2:

25 plants left form the storm gave enough tobacco for two chain smokers for 4 months, and we still have enough for month and a half and 12 plants left in a garden with more leaves to be picked up. So, I would say having your own tobacco is excellent idea and exercise, and generally speaking it's not hard at all, especially if you like gardening. Next year I'll try with more plants but will grow 70% Virginia and 30% Burley. After the hail, from 10 Havana tobacco plants only one managed to survive, so perhaps I'll add one or two plants just to gain fresh seeds if someone would like to try it or to plant it.
 

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hello, i want to ask a question,

what is the average price for normal (non organic) tobacco per Kg in Croatia?
 
akourou said:
hello, i want to ask a question,

what is the average price for normal (non organic) tobacco per Kg in Croatia?

I'm not sure for the prices today, years ago I was buying tobacco from farmers in Moslavina and prices varied between 20 to 50 euros per kilo, depending of quality. Right now it's illegal to buy tobacco directly from the farmers so it's better to plant some on the porch or balcony.
 
They say that in Serbia it's 9 euros per kilo on black market. But they made it illegal to grow it without permission from government: http://novosti.rs/vesti/naslovna/hronika/aktuelno.291.html:679904-Policija-pronasla-17-hektara-ilegalnih-zasada-duvana
 
no i am asking for contracts with the farmer legal.

for example in bulgaria or greece the average price is 2-2,20 per kilo
 
Hi akourou. Since you are new here I'd like to suggest to you to introduce yourself on the Newbies board. Nothing personal, just a bit about yourself, how you found the forum and if you are familiar with Laura Knight-Jadczyk and her material. If you are unsure what to post, you can read what others have posted there to get an idea. :)
 
akourou said:
no i am asking for contracts with the farmer legal.

for example in bulgaria or greece the average price is 2-2,20 per kilo

In Serbia, by class: I - 1.9 euros per kilo; II - 1.6; III - 1.45; IV - 1.00; V - 0.5.

http://www.novosti.rs/vesti/srbija.73.html:695538-Proizvodnju-duvana-nasledio-od-oca-sledece-godine-prekida
 
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