Gurdjieff's 82 Rules For Life

[Jo Bugman]

I agree with you here @Ryan. This also reminds me of the story where two people draw the Enneagramm and the one with more knowledge sees that the other person has less knowledge by the way he drew it. What i mean with that is that these kind of rules are probably rarely to be taken as absolute but depending on one's own knowledge they can be applied with more nuance and context.




A few days ago i had a situation where i needed to decide between doing and not-doing and decided to not-do. And it was exactly those "what ifs" that you describe @Jo Bugman that prevented me from doing. My mother and i were visiting my uncle and aunt who live in another country and whom we haven't seen since 5 years. I can also not remember when i have seen them before that. So i don't really know them well. Now my uncle has a sever gambling addiction which caused allot, and i mean ALLOT of trouble for his family. Like gambling away his last penny and his house forcing them to live on the street for a short period of time (this was a backroom gambling with very shady characters). Long story short, the reason we visited them was so my mother could talk to him (they are brother and sister) and try to open his eyes. But she didn't say anything (she had no idea how and what to say) and tried to persuade me into talking to him instead because she says that i'm more of a calm character and can listen to people. I tried searching the forum for hints and advices (i started reading the "Love and Addiction", by S. Peele and A. Brodsky" thread) but this was way too much to be able to make a decision in a day in a topic that i don't understand. To bring this story to an end, i decided to not-do or not-say anything because one of the "what ifs" was that i couldn't estimate how my words would affect him and by extension his family. It could have backfired extremely on them (he at one point had thrown both my aunt and their daughter out of the house when my aunt tried to talk to him). I don't have enough knowledge nor the talking skills to be confident enough for that.
Sorry if my post went a bit overboard but i tried to show an example for why i think that these rules need knowledge and context to be able to apply them properly.

EDIT: In that sense i broke rule 22

Like others have said in this thread I think sharing personal experiences is important. I do consider this forum a group and writing out your thoughts on here help others help you, help you see things more clearly, and gives the opportunity for others that may be going through (or gone through) similar issues to relate and learn.
On the topic of talking with struggling family members, it’s something I wrestle with also. Laura’s book Amazing Grace touches on this subject with her mother who also had issues with handling money, if you haven’t read it yet perhaps it could relate to your experience as well.

 

[Ryan]

EDIT: In that sense i broke rule 22

I don't think so! I think what you wrote is the sort of example that is absolutely relevant and a genuine service to others. It doesn't look to me like it was your personal problem at all - it was your uncle's, and he and your mother were trying to make it your problem. In that sense, I think "not doing" in your case was actually "doing" - resisting the manipulation to get involved in a problem that was beyond your ability to solve and would only drain you (and likely your mother) of energy.

So, kudos, and thanks for sharing!

 

[Iain]

I find this one interesting.

I think Gurdjieff might be talking about how we need to confront fears embedded in our subconscious.

Camouflaged being "on a deeper level" embedded in you subconscious, possibly from previous lives.

On a deeper level you might desire to conquer a fear (or balance your understanding of it) but are reluctant because of the work required to address it ?

This one got me thinking more along the lines of past trauma. e.g in 'Healing Developmental Trauma (Heller & LaPierre)' where the authors write about those with the 'connection survival styles' wanting connection with others but that this connection is also their greatest fear, partly due to the work required on the self to attain the ability to make these connections and also the perception of vulnerability exposed through that connection.

I suspect this could be broadened out to other desires individuals have whatever they may be and the blocks of fear/anxiety etc. that have been put in place to prevent these desires being attained.

 

[RJ145]

Like others have said in this thread I think sharing personal experiences is important. I do consider this forum a group and writing out your thoughts on here help others help you, help you see things more clearly, and gives the opportunity for others that may be going through (or gone through) similar issues to relate and learn.
On the topic of talking with struggling family members, it’s something I wrestle with also. Laura’s book Amazing Grace touches on this subject with her mother who also had issues with handling money, if you haven’t read it yet perhaps it could relate to your experience as well.

The above assumes that either of the proposed two people have any *knowledge* whatsoever. Both are likely wrong.

 

[Jo Bugman]

The above assumes that either of the proposed two people have any *knowledge* whatsoever. Both are likely wrong.

I disagree, everyone can teach you something even if it’s what not to do.

 

[wilfried]

I find this one interesting.

I think Gurdjieff might be talking about how we need to confront fears embedded in our subconscious.

Camouflaged being "on a deeper level" embedded in you subconscious, possibly from previous lives.

On a deeper level you might desire to conquer a fear (or balance your understanding of it) but are reluctant because of the work required to address it ?

I find your remark well seen and I continue it by remembering the mantra bene gesserit in dune: I will not be afraid of fear...
When the fear has passed what is left, Self-awareness at that moment is clearer of who we are, a desire camouflaged in our memory?

Fear is also a considerable reservoir of energy, see the adventures of Castaneda.

 

[Goemon_]

67. When someone asks your opinion about something or someone, speak only of his or her qualities.

This remind me of what I have choose as my signature on this forum:

"Il vaudrait mieux prendre un poignard que de se servir de la langue pour faire du mal. Nous ne pouvons dire du mal que si la personne est présente ; mais, comme nous ne sommes pas assez courageux, nous ne le ferons pas." Nizier Anthelme Philippe

Approximative translation : "It would be better to take a dagger than to use the tong to hurt. We are able to speak ill of only if the personne is present ; but, as we aren't so brave, we will not do it."

 

[RJ145]

I disagree, everyone can teach you something even if it’s what not to do.

In the everyday domain, yes. However, G. was specific that one must learn from “one who knows.” It is a different type of learning entirely.

 

[Ryan]

In the everyday domain, yes. However, G. was specific that one must learn from “one who knows.” It is a different type of learning entirely.

And one cannot discern "one who knows" unless one already has an innate inclination for truth. Something many pretenders lack.

 

[wodasi]

i can no longer read large/long books - Danial is well read in the works of
Gurdjieff / Cayce / Steiner -- he will reveal tid bits you may never have
heard before ... i trust his work...

Dark Journalist X-139 Mystery School America Gurdjieff Ouspensky Secret!...
3 hrs ..
Nov 11 2022
Dark Journalist Daniel Liszt goes deep to describe the powerful efforts of the Mystery Schools connected to Greek Mystic G.I. Gurdjieff and Russian Philosopher P. D. Ouspensky to establish themselves in America for decades against a rising tide of Black Magic Secret Societies!

 

[Princess Lux 🌷]

Thank you @Ryan for this list!

71. Wherever you live, always find a space that you devote to the sacred.

I am curious what G meant with the sacred?

I like the idea of selecting one to read or meditate on each day, sort of like those paper calendars with quotes.

Sounds like a plan! Thanks for the inspiration. :D

 

[Ben]

71. Wherever you live, always find a space that you devote to the sacred

I am curious what G meant with the sacred

I liked this one. I take it to mean a space which you reserve for any and all activities deliberately intended to facilitate connection with something higher or our higher selves. As far as most of us are concerned, all of life is religion, but there are several activities which we engage in that go beyond the everyday aspects of life. Examples are EE, meditation, prayers and singing. Gurdjieff also used the term sacred in reference to his movements and his music.

As for physical objects, we see that shrines and places for household religious ornaments are common across the world and throughout history, from ancient Rome to Orthodox and Catholic Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism. Many of us have our crystals, which I expect most treat with similar respect.

Just as keeping our surroundings generally in a state of order and cleanliness ('cleanliness is next to godliness') can positively affect our state of mind, maybe going a step further and dedicating some space to that which evokes divinity in our minds helps us to focus intent on it as an ideal.

 

[Tuatha de Danaan]

Dark Journalist X-139 Mystery School America Gurdjieff Ouspensky Secret!...
3 hrs ..

Wasn't too sure whether to watch or not but as I'm feeling unwell at the moment, so house work is taking a back seat, I switched it on. Learned quite a bit about Gurdjieff etc and the roadblocks erected to stop his setting up in US and also the roadblocks erected to stop those who tried to help him.
Very interesting about MARY POPPINS authoress and her little book on Gurdjieff. So many strings
Thank you wodasi.

 

[Ryan]

I am curious what G meant with the sacred?

I think Ben said it very well. Basically, those influences of a higher order that come to us from the spiritual levels of reality (4D, 5D, 6D, 7D), and which resonate and provide an ideal for our highest values - hope, compassion, honesty, devotion, faith, empathy, conscience, love, knowledge, Being.

 

[Princess Lux 🌷]

71. Wherever you live, always find a space that you devote to the sacred

I liked this one. I take it to mean a space which you reserve for any and all activities deliberately intended to facilitate connection with something higher or our higher selves. As far as most of us are concerned, all of life is religion, but there are several activities which we engage in that go beyond the everyday aspects of life. Examples are EE, meditation, prayers and singing. Gurdjieff also used the term sacred in reference to his movements and his music.

As for physical objects, we see that shrines and places for household religious ornaments are common across the world and throughout history, from ancient Rome to Orthodox and Catholic Christianity, Hinduism and Buddhism. Many of us have our crystals, which I expect most treat with similar respect.

Just as keeping our surroundings generally in a state of order and cleanliness ('cleanliness is next to godliness') can positively affect our state of mind, maybe going a step further and dedicating some space to that which evokes divinity in our minds helps us to focus intent on it as an ideal.

Thank you @Ben for your help. I was thinking of an altar or my own sacred space but I haven't read any Gurdjieff books yet so I thought that he might have meant something different.