gut feeling about ifs psychotherapy

[granite_duckling]

Good morning everyone...

This is what's on my mind...not sure where to go with it, maybe the psychology area... nah, this is good here.
Recently, during a visit with the therapist for depression treatment, my inner voice or gut feeling, whatever you call it - that internal warning feeling...anyway, I had that feeling, quite strong, and the feeling was that the topic the therapist wanted to explore was a large truck load of fertilizer. I pretty much told the therapist so. My inner voice / gut feeling has saved my bacon in the past - so I pay attention to it.
The topic was the IFS "parts" system...and I had to laugh, because when the therapist said that the 'three' of us could discuss such and such at the next session - well I found that humorous, and I said quite frankly that there were only two of us in the room, and only two of us would be there for the next session.
So, if you're reading this and you've had the IFS therapy and all was wonderful, well that's great, and I'm happy for you....but I would really like to hear from anyone who has been in the same situation...did your early warning system start ringing, did your gut feeling say "hey buddy back up the bus 'cause this is a pile of plant food". Anyone...Bueller...anyone...?
cheers, and happy weekend,
granite_duckling

 

[United Gnosis]

A gut reaction is just that - a gut reaction. That you had an emotional reaction to the suggested therapy doesn't mean it was your higher intuition - it could also simply your ego being threatened and manipulating the body emotionally.

Have you read Oupensky's In Search of the Miraculous? One of Gurdjieff's main ideas presented therein is that man is not Individual; that is, man is habited by a multitude of unintegrated personality fragments.

Which seems to be the starting point of IFS therapy. Now, I did not know about it, so let us see what the website says:

The Internal Family Systems Model (IFS) has evolved over the past twenty years into a comprehensive approach that includes guidelines for working with individuals, couples, and families. The IFS Model represents a new synthesis of two already-existing paradigms: systems thinking and the multiplicity of the mind. It brings concepts and methods from the structural, strategic, narrative, and Bowenian schools of family therapy to the world of subpersonalities. This synthesis was the natural outcome that evolved after I, as a young, fervent family therapist, began hearing from my clients about their inner lives. Once I was able to set aside my preconceived notions about therapy and the mind, and began to really listen to what my clients were saying, what I heard repeatedly were descriptions of what they often called their "parts" -- the conflicted subpersonalities that resided within them.

This was not a new discovery. Many other theorists have described a similar inner phenomenon, beginning with Freud's id, ego, and superego, and more recently the object relations conceptions of internal objects. These ideas are also at the core of less mainstream approaches such as transactional analysis (ego states) and psychosynthesis (subpersonalities), and are now manifesting in cognitive-behavioral approaches under the term schemata. Prior to IFS, however, little attention was given to how these inner entities functioned in relation to each other.

Since I was steeped in systems thinking, it was second nature to begin tracking sequences of internal interactions in the same way I had tracked interactions among family members. As I did, I learned that parts take on common roles and common inner relationships. I also learned that these inner roles and relationships were not static and could be changed if one intervened carefully and respectfully. I began conceiving of the mind as an inner family and experimenting with techniques I had used as a family therapist.

The IFS Model, which evolved as a result of this exploration, views a person as containing an ecology of relatively discrete minds, each of which has valuable qualities and each of which is designed to -- and wants to -- play a valuable role within. These parts are forced out of their valuable roles, however, by life experiences that can reorganize the system in unhealthy ways. A good analogy is an alcoholic family in which the children are forced into protective and stereotypic roles by the extreme dynamics of their family. While one finds similar sibling roles across alcoholic families (e.g., the scapegoat, mascot, lost child), one does not conclude that those roles represent the essence of those children. Instead, each child is unique and, once released from his or her role by intervention, can find interests and talents separate from the demands of the chaotic family. The same process seems to hold true for internal families -- parts are forced into extreme roles by external circumstances and, once it seems safe, they gladly transform into valuable family members.

What circumstances force these parts into extreme and sometimes destructive roles? Trauma is one factor, and the effects of childhood sexual abuse on internal families has been discussed at length (Goulding and Schwartz, 1995). But more often, it is a person's family of origin values and interaction patterns that create internal polarizations which escalate over time and are played out in other relationships. This, also, is not a novel observation; indeed, it is a central tenet of object relations and self psychology. What is novel to IFS is the attempt to understand all levels of human organization -- intrapsychic, family, and culture -- with the same systemic principles, and to intervene at each level with the same ecological techniques.

Now, this seems very interesting to me. Although I've been working on Individuation for around 5 years, I still catch my personality fragments trying to do their own thing once in a while, and would not pretend that I catch them every time. Nor do I think many people on this forum would.

Hence my initial reaction is positive to that concept. Once I get through more psychology books, researching IFS might make it on the pile, actually. I would definitely enjoy hearing other's thoughts on this as well.

 

[Gimpy]

Good morning everyone...

This is what's on my mind...not sure where to go with it, maybe the psychology area... nah, this is good here.
Recently, during a visit with the therapist for depression treatment, my inner voice or gut feeling, whatever you call it - that internal warning feeling...anyway, I had that feeling, quite strong, and the feeling was that the topic the therapist wanted to explore was a large truck load of fertilizer. I pretty much told the therapist so. My inner voice / gut feeling has saved my bacon in the past - so I pay attention to it.
The topic was the IFS "parts" system...and I had to laugh, because when the therapist said that the 'three' of us could discuss such and such at the next session - well I found that humorous, and I said quite frankly that there were only two of us in the room, and only two of us would be there for the next session.
So, if you're reading this and you've had the IFS therapy and all was wonderful, well that's great, and I'm happy for you....but I would really like to hear from anyone who has been in the same situation...did your early warning system start ringing, did your gut feeling say "hey buddy back up the bus 'cause this is a pile of plant food". Anyone...Bueller...anyone...?
cheers, and happy weekend,
granite_duckling

Did you choose to go to therapy for depression, or did someone tell you to do it?

As a general rule: when my gut pops up a warning...determining if its more than just thinking the other person is 'educated beyond their intelligence' depends on the reason I'm listening to that person in the first place.

 

[obyvatel]

The IFS system has been discussed in this thread
Healing the fragmented self in the IFS therapeutic model

 

[mcb]

Many forms of therapy can be beneficial, but it depends on you. The interaction alone can shake loose all kinds of things that you can benefit from noticing. If you start believing in a particular "method," however, you could be headed for trouble. As it happens, trouble can be a good teacher -- if you survive -- but seeing it coming and acting on your own behalf can be an even better teacher.

I have been through a lot of therapy myself, and much of it was beneficial. Nowadays, though, I would rather read a good book about what's bothering me, or watch any good movie (where "good" in this context means one that shakes things loose so they can be seen). The problem with therapists, as I see it now, is that most of them are totally clueless about nutrition and you can't DO a thorough job of what they do and be so ignorant.

Once you see this shortcoming, however, and realize the limitations of the person you are working with, and see the need to protect yourself (through knowledge) even while opening up to the therapist, I think that there may be much that you can discover from the interaction.

My opinion: I have always regarded any therapy process as my doing. I regard the therapist as a paid consultant. I have had trouble firing some of the bad ones, due to some of my issues, but it's something you can learn. The therapeutic benefits come from you pressing toward your goals, using therapy as a tool, and seeing what you need to see. They do not come from being there in the office and "receiving therapy."

Added: your gut is actual sense organ for this sort of thing. Trust it as you would any other sense, with caution and verification.

 

[United Gnosis]

The IFS system has been discussed in this thread
Healing the fragmented self in the IFS therapeutic model

Thank you, Obyvatel.

 

[granite_duckling]

Hi everyone,
Thank you for your kind feedback ; I'm looking into polyvagal at the moment. Gimpy, my spouse asked me to go...and I wanted to keep the peace with an open mind. Yes Megan, I take my time to investigate before believing or not believing; being skeptical I suppose one would call it, is a healthy thing as I try to avoid trouble. The best therapy for me has usually been working on my art - time to be more active in that area I would say.
cheers
granite_duckling

 

[Gimpy]

Hi everyone,
Thank you for your kind feedback ; I'm looking into polyvagal at the moment. Gimpy, my spouse asked me to go...and I wanted to keep the peace with an open mind. Yes Megan, I take my time to investigate before believing or not believing; being skeptical I suppose one would call it, is a healthy thing as I try to avoid trouble. The best therapy for me has usually been working on my art - time to be more active in that area I would say.
cheers
granite_duckling

Maybe try working on your art in a class setting? At one time, a therapist I was working with suggested art workshops, and those did help a lot. Too much isolation can end up making things worse in the long run.

Good luck.

 

[Biomiast]

Hi granite_duckling,

If you are more of a gut feeling oriented person, you might enjoy reading Peter Levine's In an Unspoken Voice. He talks about the benefits of Body Oriented Therapy which involves experiencing gut feelings and other "emotional energies" in your body to solve your issues. It is a little bit different compared to conventional talk therapies. He also has a Somatic Experiencing Institute where he trains therapists which practice this method.

My two cents, fwiw.

 

[Buddy]

I would really like to hear from anyone who has been in the same situation...did your early warning system start ringing, did your gut feeling say "hey buddy back up the bus 'cause this is a pile of plant food".

I haven't been in the same situation, but when I researched the subject I got a similar gut reaction, though milder. But my gut doesn't always have a final say.

When I think about the wider context around this IFS model and the fact that people are different in all the ways that Gurdjieff has so painstakingly described, I have no judgment on the model itself. Just an observation that any therapeutic model that can help people in positive ways can surely be viewed as the positive side of the saying 'there's a program for everybody'. At the same time, I realize the limitations of that observation, so it might not be worth much after all.